|
Crowsbeak posted:Indeed. The way to deal with the heretics is to give up on liberalism and launch a crusade against Usurers and especially the doomsday cults.
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Its weird how I'm usually blah about my religion (other than using it to justify my socialist beliefs), but loving bring up evangelicals and WASPs and I just turn into a templar. Hey, doomsday cultists want the world to get worse, and were just as much behind the push for the war in Iraq as the Neocons. Their are actual ones who say it's God's will for global warming.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
Postoyevsky posted:guy on the left was described to me as, and i quote, a 'light maoist' He at least introduced himself as a socialist, not as a progressive, unlike Vaughn Stewart
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
Hieronymous Alloy posted:A lot of folks are more interested in proving that they're leftier-than-thou than they are with anything else, including accomplishing any concrete goal (winning an election, changing a regulation, etc.) yeah. the people on twitter and medium etc. also are often more interested in building their personal brand or support than building support for any party or movement.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:19
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Its weird how I'm usually blah about my religion (other than using it to justify my socialist beliefs), but loving bring up evangelicals and WASPs and I just turn into a templar. It's called the narcissism of small differences, and it's very popular with people like us.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:21
|
|
|
I'm not the most well-read guy on this topic but it feels like part of the problem is that there's no consensus on what a particular leftist tendency is supposed to look like in the modern world. And I'm not taking about 1949 vs 2018, I mean 1998 vs 2018.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:44
|
|
|
Postoyevsky posted:guy on the left was described to me as, and i quote, a 'light maoist' edit: hit him for money since i bet he loves xi dada
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:51
|
|
|
But Rocks Hurt Head posted:I'm not the most well-read guy on this topic but it feels like part of the problem is that there's no consensus on what a particular leftist tendency is supposed to look like in the modern world. And I'm not taking about 1949 vs 2018, I mean 1998 vs 2018. I think its more that for various reasons, collective and party based organizing has been largely rejected by the US left for a long time now. theres a general aversion to any kind of party based organizing and so movements have become atomized and fragmented. thats why people spend a lot more time debating "tendencies" or "ideologies" than discussing what their goals are and the ways to organize effectively to achieve them
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:51
|
|
|
apropos to nothing posted:I think its more that for various reasons, collective and party based organizing has been largely rejected by the US left for a long time now. theres a general aversion to any kind of party based organizing and so movements have become atomized and fragmented. thats why people spend a lot more time debating "tendencies" or "ideologies" than discussing what their goals are and the ways to organize effectively to achieve them I think part of that is the deliberate undermining of the organized American left through both overt and covert means for the greater part of the 20th century, and partly because of the inherently atomizing nature of life under the dehumanizing extremes of American capitalism
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:55
|
|
|
achillesforever6 posted:Its weird how I'm usually blah about my religion (other than using it to justify my socialist beliefs), but loving bring up evangelicals and WASPs and I just turn into a templar. realtalk seeing the WASP sects rebrand themselves as the only good and woke religion for white people given their history is...something
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:56
|
|
|
there are a ton of wheels that the American left is in the process of re-inventing because of that history of repression though, that also is a big part of why the left is tiny and in divergent fragments
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:58
|
|
|
Nikita Khrushchev posted:what's a light Maoist a swamp maoist who is so light he can skim along the top of the water
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:I think part of that is the deliberate undermining of the organized American left through both overt and covert means for the greater part of the 20th century, and partly because of the inherently atomizing nature of life under the dehumanizing extremes of American capitalism It certainly plays a part, but really since the 60s throughout the west, the left has been beset by divisions over the most dumbest of disagreements.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 18:59
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:It certainly plays a part, but really since the 60s throughout the west, the left has been beset by divisions over the most dumbest of disagreements. I think a lot of those disagreements may look dumb on the surface, but they speak to deeper problems. like, why was the force of the movement insufficient to overcome conflicts of personality? what were the organizing principles of the movements that ended in dysfunctional anticlimax? and were are the material stakes of the people taking part in it? the importance in understanding the history of leftism is having the answers to those questions so we don't repeat those mistakes otherwise, we're due to take our roles for the "then, as farce"
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 19:10
|
|
|
Sheng-Ji Yang posted:a swamp maoist who is so light he can skim along the top of the water Maoists with amphibian tendencies are valid
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 19:20
|
|
|
Mr. Lobe posted:I think a lot of those disagreements may look dumb on the surface, but they speak to deeper problems. like, why was the force of the movement insufficient to overcome conflicts of personality? what were the organizing principles of the movements that ended in dysfunctional anticlimax? and were are the material stakes of the people taking part in it? Well I have some answers there. But I don't think much of the forum would like it. Let's just say that perhaps the Frankfurt schools real problem was it's ideas made the left too introverted.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 19:24
|
|
|
well, there is also a lot of revisionist thought that came about in the 60s and remains to this day. the revolutions in places like vietnam, cuba, and other nations led a lot of the left and socialists to embrace the kind of foco organizing that occurred in those places. as a result, they often rejected attempts to connect and organize the actual working class, both because US workers were entering into a more reactionary period, and because those revolutions seemed to point to an effective way to do things. jacobins recent articles about SDS do a pretty good job of describing this trend in SDS specifically but it happened across the left and it led to what I would say is the separation and segregation of the american left from the working class
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 19:29
|
|
|
apropos to nothing posted:well, there is also a lot of revisionist thought that came about in the 60s and remains to this day. the revolutions in places like vietnam, cuba, and other nations led a lot of the left and socialists to embrace the kind of foco organizing that occurred in those places. as a result, they often rejected attempts to connect and organize the actual working class, both because US workers were entering into a more reactionary period, and because those revolutions seemed to point to an effective way to do things. jacobins recent articles about SDS do a pretty good job of describing this trend in SDS specifically but it happened across the left and it led to what I would say is the separation and segregation of the american left from the working class yeah, but the revolutionary movement of the 60's took place after the 1st red scare (the one with the House Unamerican Activities Committee) which did a lot to gut the labor movement that peaked earlier in the century. so people in the 60's were also missing a generation or so of committed organizers. there's also the fact that material conditions improved temporarily in the US after the war, so there was both the carrot and the stick to quash things for a couple decades Mr. Lobe has issued a correction as of 19:46 on Jul 14, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 19:41
|
|
|
Karl Barks posted:quite some time now!!!! "Quite some time" is like 2 years tops, she was a maoist and an anarchist before.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:27
|
|
|
Re red scare talk: having to reinvent the wheel isn't necessarily as bad as it might sound considering the communist parties with the oldest institutional memory in Europe and Asia are also total shitshows on top of which they're mired into even worse sectarian arguments; you end up with stuff like the PCF that reinvents itself every couple years or the KKE which is more willing to work with Golden Dawn than other leftists.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:33
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:Re red scare talk: having to reinvent the wheel isn't necessarily as bad as it might sound considering the communist parties with the oldest institutional memory in Europe and Asia are also total shitshows on top of which they're mired into even worse sectarian arguments; you end up with stuff like the PCF that reinvents itself every couple years or the KKE which is more willing to work with Golden Dawn than other leftists.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:41
|
|
|
I really hope everyone itt is already aware that leftist infighting predates Twitter, Tumblr, and even email.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:47
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:I really hope everyone itt is already aware that leftist infighting predates Twitter, Tumblr, and even email.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:49
|
|
|
Agnosticnixie posted:Re red scare talk: having to reinvent the wheel isn't necessarily as bad as it might sound considering the communist parties with the oldest institutional memory in Europe and Asia are also total shitshows on top of which they're mired into even worse sectarian arguments; you end up with stuff like the PCF that reinvents itself every couple years or the KKE which is more willing to work with Golden Dawn than other leftists. I guess time will tell whether our growing pains or Europe and Asia's zombie institutions are the bigger impediment to movement building. now that we suddenly have a socialist left in the US again, we will get to find out soon enough
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 20:52
|
|
|
Doc Hawkins posted:I really hope everyone itt is already aware that leftist infighting predates Twitter, Tumblr, and even email. imagine how much bloodshed could have been prevented if twitter existed during stalin's purges.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 21:58
|
|
|
Nikita Khrushchev posted:what's a light Maoist it usually is an aesthetic or brand rather than a fully developed ideology because few people have a developed leftist ideology in america and when people do have a developed ideology they generally recognize they need to throw out or reinterpret a large chunk of stuff because it doesn't necessarily apply to current conditions here. when someone does have a more developed ideology of light or soft maoism it usually means something like: -organizing should be focused more where people live than where they work -foreign policy should be focused on anti-imperialism -people are going to trend towards bourgeois tendencies unless they are continually reradicalized by their comrades -socialists should be finding what the marginalized are already organizing around and work to implement a socialist solution to the underlying issue
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:04
|
|
|
really queer Christmas posted:imagine how much bloodshed could have been prevented if twitter existed during stalin's purges. Ridiculous, as if Stalin or any communist could ever make one "tweet"
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:17
|
|
|
The sending of one tweet is a tragedy, the sending of millions of tweets is a statistic.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:21
|
|
|
Rebuilding a new party isn't so bad yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:29
|
|
|
Nikita Khrushchev posted:what's a light Maoist running for MD house of delegates, apparently
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:37
|
|
|
Crowsbeak posted:The problem is that there really are too many people weeded towards either heretical doomsday prot ideology or just capitalism. They have to be crushed first. I should be clear that if we were forced to release sulfur into the atmosphere it would be very bad. Reddened sky, faint but constant smell of brimstone everywhere. Actual bits of Hell on Earth. But still better than the alternative.
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:40
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:I should be clear that if we were forced to release sulfur into the atmosphere it would be very bad. Reddened sky, faint but constant smell of brimstone everywhere. Actual bits of Hell on Earth. But still better than the alternative. sounds good, let's do that poo poo right now
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:41
|
|
|
Full posadism now?
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:44
|
|
|
Moridin920 posted:Full posadism now? Please do i look like a villain out of a comic book? Full posadism 20 minutes ago 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:49
|
|
|
Jeb! Repetition posted:I should be clear that if we were forced to release sulfur into the atmosphere it would be very bad. Reddened sky, faint but constant smell of brimstone everywhere. Actual bits of Hell on Earth. But still better than the alternative. Depends on the sulfur compound. H2S is colorless!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:55
|
|
|
Marxalot posted:Depends on the sulfur compound. H2S is colorless! And a greenhouse gas!
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:56
|
|
|
Goon Danton posted:And a greenhouse gas! 
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 22:57
|
|
|
lol the dsa thread
|
|
#
?
Jul 14, 2018 23:55
|
|
|
fermun posted:it usually is an aesthetic or brand rather than a fully developed ideology because few people have a developed leftist ideology in america and when people do have a developed ideology they generally recognize they need to throw out or reinterpret a large chunk of stuff because it doesn't necessarily apply to current conditions here. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2018 00:11
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 19, 2024 05:33 |
|
|
so we’re at the stage where the GOP will create fake DSA flyers to try to smear the Dems lol https://twitter.com/sohrabahmari/status/1017928988319272960?s=21
|
|
#
?
Jul 15, 2018 00:36
|
|
