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Here's my plan for these switches inside my front door, hopefully it will work. Looking for input/warnings if possible. 1 & 2 - The left two seem to do the same thing, they both control the ceiling fan and light. I'm not sure why they aren't separate. The ceiling fan is in a vaulted ceiling so there isn't an easy way to adjust the speed. I'd like to put a USB outlet of some kind on the far left for charging phones and stuff, and the next one will be a combo ceiling fan/light dimmer. 3 - Switch for the porch light, replace with a rocker, no dimmer. 4 - For inside lights, replace with dimmer.  Once all that's done I want to put a screwless faceplate, just to waste extra money. McGurk fucked around with this message at 02:36 on Jul 8, 2018 |
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Jul 8, 2018 02:32
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Was the ceiling fan replaced at some point? I'm betting the two switched wires inside the fan canopy are connected together. Pull the switch faceplate to verify no weird poo poo going on with those switches.
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Jul 8, 2018 10:15
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STR posted:Was the ceiling fan replaced at some point? I'm betting the two switched wires inside the fan canopy are connected together. Pull the switch faceplate to verify no weird poo poo going on with those switches. It's a newish looking ceiling fan in an older house we just bought. They don't do exactly the same thing at the same time, not really sure how to explain it. If one is up the other doesn't do anything until you flip the first, then the situation reverses. Here's a pic of the innards. 
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Jul 8, 2018 18:46
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TheManWithNoName posted:It's a newish looking ceiling fan in an older house we just bought. They don't do exactly the same thing at the same time, not really sure how to explain it. If one is up the other doesn't do anything until you flip the first, then the situation reverses. Here's a pic of the innards. Is the load on one of them wired into the line of the other one? Which wires(s) are hot when both are off? I bet those switches are wired in series instead of parallel for lack of a better description.
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Jul 8, 2018 22:34
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TheManWithNoName posted:It's a newish looking ceiling fan in an older house we just bought. They don't do exactly the same thing at the same time, not really sure how to explain it. If one is up the other doesn't do anything until you flip the first, then the situation reverses. Here's a pic of the innards. That's because one switch is a 2 way and the other is a 3 way. Is there another light switch in this room? For ceiling fans with multiple switches, usually the light and fan are separated. Pull the switches out farther. That picture isn't very good. Wait a minute. Are those backstabs???
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Jul 9, 2018 19:34
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kid sinister posted:That's because one switch is a 2 way and the other is a 3 way. Is there another light switch in this room? For ceiling fans with multiple switches, usually the light and fan are separated. I’ll try and get better pics tonight. Yes there is another switch across the room I wasn’t going to touch. Not backstabs. Can I replace the 2 way with a usb outlet, and the 3 way with a combo fan/light switch?
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Jul 9, 2018 19:42
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TheManWithNoName posted:I’ll try and get better pics tonight. Yes there is another switch across the room I wasn’t going to touch. Not backstabs. Turn off the power, take all the switches out and separate the wires out as best you can. Your box is a little more confusing than most since the wires have paint on them. That means either scrape all the paint off (ick) or separate them all out so we can trace them by sight. You probably can get a fancy fan switch, but we need to know about that other switch first so we can tell you what to buy. What does that switch across the room control? Another option would be to just get a double rocker switch. That way you'd be moving a pair of switches to its own gang, freeing up a spot for an outlet. But first let's figure out that other switch so we don't screw up how it's supposed to function. If you want that fancypants "no screws showing" plate, then you'll probably have to swap all those out for rocker switches or ones that same size.
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Jul 9, 2018 21:08
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So I'm rewiring the oldest part of my house, the wiring is cloth wrapped garbage some of it insulated with what looks like twine. The circuit is from knob & tube days but the wiring is probably from the 40s. There isn't a single junction box for any of the lights. The circuit picks up all the plugs in the main area downstairs, all of the lights upstairs and downstairs and the lights in the front addition. From what I can tell, the wires were run in between the second floor joists. The thing is, the main floor has three ceilings. There's an original plaster ceiling, a later plaster ceiling and then drywall hung from steel studs on top of that ( apparently a repair after the ceiling(s) collapsed from a water leak). Anyway, I'm never going to be able to pull all the old wires from out of this mess. I'm 100% confident I've traced the entire circuit. How bad would it be to leave the wires I can't pull out in place and forget about them forever? I've found alternative routes to run the new wires I'm putting in and I won't be re-using any of this old junk.
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Jul 10, 2018 03:11
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Breakfast Feud posted:Anyway, I'm never going to be able to pull all the old wires from out of this mess. I'm 100% confident I've traced the entire circuit. How bad would it be to leave the wires I can't pull out in place and forget about them forever? I've found alternative routes to run the new wires I'm putting in and I won't be re-using any of this old junk. Abandoning wire that cannot be energized is 100% OK.
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Jul 10, 2018 03:20
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Breakfast Feud posted:The thing is, the main floor has three ceilings. There's an original plaster ceiling, a later plaster ceiling and then drywall hung from steel studs on top of that ( apparently a repair after the ceiling(s) collapsed from a water leak). The first layer might be rock lath. Basically it was drywall mounted to the studs and joists but perforated with holes for the plaster to cling onto. Yes, it's perfectly OK to abandon unenergized wires in the walls.
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Jul 10, 2018 18:45
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There very well may be rock lath in there, but there are interstitial spaces between all of the ceilings. It looks like there was a reno here in the 60s/early 70s where they hung another plaster ceiling off the original ceiling and probably ran the wiring in the space between those ceilings. It's like lath/Plaster/half inch gap/rock lath/plaster/gap/drywall. It's good to hear I can just leave it in there because holy gently caress that would be awful removing it. Also, it looks as though historically wire splices were done by unwrapping the cotton insulator, splicing in another wire to create a Y then re-wrapping. Anyone got info on this process? I've never heard of it or seen it until I took some of these JBs apart and found these Y splices.
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Jul 11, 2018 00:08
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Breakfast Feud posted:There very well may be rock lath in there, but there are interstitial spaces between all of the ceilings. It looks like there was a reno here in the 60s/early 70s where they hung another plaster ceiling off the original ceiling and probably ran the wiring in the space between those ceilings. It's like lath/Plaster/half inch gap/rock lath/plaster/gap/drywall. It's good to hear I can just leave it in there because holy gently caress that would be awful removing it. The only thing to tear the old wiring out for is recycling. That's all I can think of. Maybe reducing weight if it's like a trailer or something, but that's it. For over half a century now, all junctions must now be made inside boxes. If they used that rubber tape to cover them, while removing that tape, don't let it touch a hardwood floor. It's like a scuff mark from hell to remove. Wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, wipe, etc. If they junctioned the wires inside boxes like that, it might actually be legal still. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 00:57
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That's good to know about that tape and floors. Surprisingly the only joint I've found in a wall was much, much newer and the guy that wired it in the olden days did a pretty good job for the time, honestly. Legal or not though, I don't want any more of that sketchy wire and brittle loving insulator in this house especially since it makes putting in new fixtures/sockets a huge gamble.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:43
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kid sinister posted:Turn off the power, take all the switches out and separate the wires out as best you can. Your box is a little more confusing than most since the wires have paint on them. That means either scrape all the paint off (ick) or separate them all out so we can trace them by sight.  I haven't had time to take everything apart yet, but here's another picture. Waiting until I get all the switches and can just do it at once. They are loving backstabs! I should have looked closer, the second one from the left confused me. The other switch controls the lights and ceiling fan, but in a similar way to the ones in this box it only works if the other ones are in the right position. There is also one more 3 way switch that controls the same lights as the far right one in this box, but that works fine. The plan for now:     I need to find a 3 way combo fan/light switch. gently caress these things are expensive.
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Jul 11, 2018 03:53
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TheManWithNoName posted:The plan for now: That is going to be a nightmare to fit all those chunky switches in that box.
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Jul 11, 2018 14:59
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And also, nobody ever uses USB chargers in wall plates. There's never a table or appropriate counter nearby where you could set a device, and even if there is then you're stringing a USB cable around a bunch of switches that's also usually near a doorway. Add to that, the 5V power supplies in those things (especially for a 2+ USB outlet plate) have to be crammed in there with inadequate cooling, and also are usually of an outdated standard by the time you install them, I wouldn't do it.
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Jul 11, 2018 15:25
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:And also, nobody ever uses USB chargers in wall plates. There's never a table or appropriate counter nearby where you could set a device, and even if there is then you're stringing a USB cable around a bunch of switches that's also usually near a doorway. Add to that, the 5V power supplies in those things (especially for a 2+ USB outlet plate) have to be crammed in there with inadequate cooling, and also are usually of an outdated standard by the time you install them, I wouldn't do it. There is a good spot to set the devices, with drawers and what not. My other idea was to get an outlet with a light replacing the top plug and a sleek usb charger for below.  
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Jul 11, 2018 15:46
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Do that. Bigclive has plenty of videos about integrated 5V power supplies and how they are poo poo. Plus, again, outdated by a new power standard a year down the line. Inside a wall is not the place for active electronics. E: and if they do 2.5-3A, prepare for fires or yellowed outlet covers from the heat produced. You cannot enclose something like that, especially when 99% of the time it's a lovely capacitive dropper circuit, or the cheapest (and smallest) transformer available. Queen_Combat fucked around with this message at 16:26 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 15:54
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TheManWithNoName posted:There is a good spot to set the devices, with drawers and what not. My other idea was to get an outlet with a light replacing the top plug and a sleek usb charger for below. That top light is going to be very bright at eye level in the dark. Be warned. (We have one as a nightlight in a hallway and it's great, but I wouldn't want it at eye level.) Also tripling on the "outlet usb ports are garbage" bandwagon. Enjoy charging everything at 2.5w (5v/0.5a) for hours on end instead of using a brand-name charger and having it go at upwards of 18w (9v/2a) depending on make/model of your phone.
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Jul 11, 2018 16:18
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:And also, nobody ever uses USB chargers in wall plates. Our employees do at our work. I installed them in the back rooms, for 2 reasons: as a courtesy for our employees to charge their phones, plus if their phone is charging there, then they won't be using their phones out in the shop and ignoring customers.
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Jul 11, 2018 17:25
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TheManWithNoName posted:
That switch on the right is a 3 way switch also. Where's the other switch for that? They do make 3 way dimmers, but you can only control the dimming from one end. Or they may make wireless home automation ones that allow for dimming from both ends, I don't know. If you got backstabs in one place, then you probably have more. I'm sorry to say this, but you'll need to check every other switch and receptacle that you have in your house. You might just save your own life or anyone else living with you. If you live in track homes that were all built at the same time, then maybe let your neighbors know too. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Jul 11, 2018 |
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Jul 11, 2018 17:43
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kid sinister posted:That switch on the right is a 3 way switch also. Where's the other switch for that? They do make 3 way dimmers, but you can only control the dimming from one end. Or they may make wireless home automation ones that allow for dimming from both ends, I don't know. Bummer about the backstabs but not the end of the world, all the switches and outlets are ugly colors anyways. Our house was built in the 1930s, expanded in the 70s and remodeled sometime in the last 20 years. H110Hawk posted:That top light is going to be very bright at eye level in the dark. Be warned. (We have one as a nightlight in a hallway and it's great, but I wouldn't want it at eye level.) Good point, it faces our living room and would be annoying while watching tv. Looks like the way to go is a standard double outlet with a soft nightlight, or nothing if it’s too bright.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:07
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TheManWithNoName posted:Good point, it faces our living room and would be annoying while watching tv. Looks like the way to go is a standard double outlet with a soft nightlight, or nothing if it’s too bright. I got these nightlights and just leave 'em plugged in all the time. The soft red light is good for not killing night vision and not waking you up too much if you need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night or whatever, while still providing enough light to navigate. My only complaint is that they turn on when ambient light levels are still pretty high, but they (claim to) draw half a watt each so who cares.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:15
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I got these nightlights and just leave 'em plugged in all the time. The soft red light is good for not killing night vision and not waking you up too much if you need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night or whatever, while still providing enough light to navigate. My only complaint is that they turn on when ambient light levels are still pretty high, but they (claim to) draw half a watt each so who cares. I have the white version of those nightlights, and I "hacked" them to be less bright. You can pop the front cover off without tools, and the tube that shields the photoresistor from light itself can be broken off. Then, by bending the resistor to be closer or further away from the face of the light, you can set the maximum brightness. The further in, the dimmer its max will be, because it hits a feedback loop reacting to its own light.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:33
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:I got these nightlights and just leave 'em plugged in all the time. The soft red light is good for not killing night vision and not waking you up too much if you need to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night or whatever, while still providing enough light to navigate. My only complaint is that they turn on when ambient light levels are still pretty high, but they (claim to) draw half a watt each so who cares. Yeah have some of those as well. It's important not to think about how long 1w LED nightlights are on, given it takes 1,000 hours of on time to add up to... less than a quarter in electricity. They could leave out the photo sensor on them for all I care.
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Jul 11, 2018 18:52
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TheManWithNoName posted:I need to find a 3 way combo fan/light switch. gently caress these things are expensive. https://www.lowes.com/pd/Legrand-3-Speed-15-Amp-White-Indoor-Slide-Fan-Control/1000050157 It supports 3 way switching on both the light and fan, with dimming control for the fan lights and speed control for the fan. Also has a snap in module available for a night light.
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Jul 11, 2018 20:26
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kid sinister posted:https://www.lowes.com/pd/Legrand-3-Speed-15-Amp-White-Indoor-Slide-Fan-Control/1000050157 I really wish there was a maestro (without canopy module) that worked like this.
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Jul 11, 2018 22:13
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I suppose we should mention that those 3 way fan and light controls usually demand to be the first box on a 3 way setup. Well, there are several methods to wire 3 ways, and not all of them have the source hot at the first box. You may need to take out those other 3 way switches across the room and figure out which method yours have. Got a circuit tester?
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Jul 11, 2018 23:39
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So my 'new' house has incandescent can lights all over the first floor, on about a half dozen really old dimmer switches (toggles that have a positive stop at the bottom of the throw but a 'slide' feeling the other 80% of the throw) and some of the switches get quite warm to the touch after a hour or two. I plan on replacing it all with led dimmable bulbs and led rated dimmers. Anybody have a favorite style / brand? I don't really care about color changing, but some smart switches that I could put on timers would be nice. I'm wary of installing electronics as permanent fixtures since it will all be outdated / unsupported in 5 years, so I figure the more standalone & open source the switches are the longer they'll be viable.
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Jul 11, 2018 23:59
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For bulbs, I love Philips. The budget brands aren’t all that budget anymore compared to Philips, and they burn out way too often for my tastes. Especially the ecosmart brand from Home Depot, gently caress those. The one Philips bulb I had burn out, I just emailed Philips with a picture of the stamp on the bulb and the can it was in and they sent me a check for the amount of the bulb rounded up to the next $10, no muss no fuss, it took minutes. For controls, I’ve had zero trouble with Luttron, I know Lowes sells them and HD might as well. Also, I find the big paddle decora style switches to be way preferable to the old school toggles. Slap the wall and it’s on/off. Also, with the little slide alongside that big flat paddle, it’s a lot less likely that the dimmer gets shifted when toggling the light, since the relative surface areas are so different, and they operate in different directions than the older style toggles. The decora style also gives you a lot more options for what you put in there, you can get some pretty deeply featured controls that wouldn’t fit otherwise. Bad Munki fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 00:18
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Putting timers in the wall isn't that bad as far as being outdated tech in the wall. I mean, timers never go out of style though you might not use it as much as you think. Z-Wave stuff I think is the defacto "the future will likely support this", but god only knows. If your dimmers are warm - do you have more than 600W of lights on them? Depending on how oldschool they are they might literally have a resistor in there that drops the voltage to dim the light. This converts electricity into heat to dim the lights. Isn't that swell? https://home.howstuffworks.com/dimmer-switch1.htm For anything other than a normal LED dimmer make sure you have a neutral in the box before you start buying $50 devices. They will all probably require it. I like these: https://www.homedepot.com/p/Lutron-...PR-WH/203670402 H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Jul 12, 2018 |
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Jul 12, 2018 00:35
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Nevets posted:some of the switches get quite warm to the touch after a hour or two. That's how the dimmers work. If you take the cover off, you'll notice that the entire face is a heatsink. You should see the big dimmers for ballrooms and the like.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:01
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kid sinister posted:That's how the dimmers work. If you take the cover off, you'll notice that the entire face is a heatsink. You should see the big dimmers for ballrooms and the like. Dimmers turn some of the extra light into heat which is actually pretty amazing.
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Jul 12, 2018 01:09
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Oh I get that old school dimmers were just variable resistors, but these were warming up even though they were all the way on. And yeah, pretty much everything in the house is getting a decora facelift. It's just so much easier when your regular outlets, gfci's, light switches, smart home stuff, etc. All share the same cover plate form factor, especially in multi gang boxes.
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Jul 12, 2018 03:04
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Wow, you guys will love this: This is my new house's main panel & the generator hookup sub panel. I spent about an hour today trying to figure out which circuit the old ungrounded outlets in the living room were on because I want to tear them out and replace the baseboards they're in, and run a new circuit with outlets you don't have to get on your hands and knees to access. 1 The breaker labels were woefully inaccurate, since whoever installed the generator sub panel and moved the critical circuits over there decided it wasn't worth 5 minutes of his time to relabel the main panel. Even after shutting off every breaker they still had power; then I realized that computer UPS was powering the circuit. And after turning it off I discovered that circuit also powered the living room's 4 can lights, 2 chandeliers, and the front porch light, in addition to those 5 ungrounded outlets. All through an 18 AWG computer power cord wire nutted onto the circuit inside the main panel. The incandescent lights must have used almost half that UPS' wattage alone, I can't imagine how they ran the vacuum cleaner or TV on those outlets too. Tomorrow I'm going to wire it back into one of the unused 20 amp breakers, then try and figure out if I can remove the outlets but save the lighting. My guess is not.
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Jul 15, 2018 02:44
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How the gently caress?
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Jul 15, 2018 02:53
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:And also, nobody ever uses USB chargers in wall plates. There's never a table or appropriate counter nearby where you could set a device, and even if there is then you're stringing a USB cable around a bunch of switches that's also usually near a doorway. Add to that, the 5V power supplies in those things (especially for a 2+ USB outlet plate) have to be crammed in there with inadequate cooling, and also are usually of an outdated standard by the time you install them, I wouldn't do it. H110Hawk posted:Also tripling on the "outlet usb ports are garbage" bandwagon. Enjoy charging everything at 2.5w (5v/0.5a) for hours on end instead of using a brand-name charger and having it go at upwards of 18w (9v/2a) depending on make/model of your phone.
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Jul 15, 2018 03:07
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HOW in the gently caress is a computer power supply wired into a panel?! Who did this? Was it you?!
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Jul 15, 2018 03:21
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At least they used a cable clamp, lol
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Jul 15, 2018 16:18
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Don't worry goons, the UPS has been disconnected and the circuit reattached to a regular breaker. I'm pretty sure I have this right: I disconnected the cable feeding these old outlets from the junction box in the basement where it branches out, but left the branch which feeds the light switches, pulled the disconnected cable from the junction box and capped off the loose conductors with wire nuts for good measure. Upstairs I disconnected the old outlets and taped off the conductors. What I'm planning on doing is burying the now disconnected boxes and cable behind new baseboard. Is there an industry standard way to mark the old cable in the basement as unusable?
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Jul 15, 2018 17:28
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