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Avalerion posted:Do you know if future ones are also this bad in needing one specific setup, or do the more varried realms allow variety in party building too? As Zurai noted, it's less that it "needs one specific setup" - all of the sub 30s are, in fact, by a team of Knights (including Ramza) using Assault Saber and literally nothing else except their SBs - and more that it's got a lower RES than DEF so in another, more mage-friendly realm magic would totally be the way to go. The more varied realms will by definition allow more variety in party building; FF6 is going to have a more varied loadout than FFT (which is about 50% Knight by volume) and FF10 (which is basically all Water, Dark, and Fire, with a heavy bias towards Sharpshooters and summoners). Zurai posted:Theoretically, Marach, Rapha, Montblanc, a healer, and I guess you could turn Orlandeau or Gaffgarion into a darkness mage? Or wait 6 months for Orran Durai to come out, he's likely going to be another mage. The clear that led me to believe was Marach/Rapha/Montblanc/Ovelia/Alma, if memory serves. You're right that every sub-30 I've seen online is Ramza/Agrias/Orlandeau/Ovelia/Marche, though. That I did so piss-poor with my own team in those circumstances is why I made some faulty assumptions.
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Jul 16, 2018 00:02
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So I'm building my first Siren team and need a little advice. Current theorycraft team: Seifer - Dark Chain - Not sure what abilities I should use/craft/hone OK - pUSB, Wrath, Entrust Selphie - USB, Curada, Shellga My best options for the other slots are Orlandeau, Cloud, and Shadow. I have Orlandeau USB and Cloud USB, but I'm not sure which is better. Cloud can break the damage cap with darkness abilities after USB entry and Orlandeau thirstycasts darkness abilities which require more hones. Orlandeau and Cloud are also both LD. For Shadow, I have his BSB, LMR, and I can easily LD him and maybe hone a dark ninja ability or two. I feel like I should use Orlandeau or Cloud because it will probably result in more damage for less effort but I also don't know which darkness abilities are the best to hone. I really don't think I should be using the one that hurts me because it's magicite and they hit hard. I also don't want to use both Orlandeau AND Cloud because I don't have the orbs to hone enough abilities for both of them. Well, I might, but it would drain me pretty hard and I still haven't attempted Hades either. So I kind of want to use Shadow and either Orlandeau or Cloud. Also, is it a good idea to double heal on Siren? If so, I assume I would drop Shadow? He would build the chain the fastest but I feel like he would also do the least damage.
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Jul 16, 2018 00:52
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Elephant Ambush posted:Also, is it a good idea to double heal on Siren? If so, I assume I would drop Shadow? He would build the chain the fastest but I feel like he would also do the least damage. I don't have anything to back me up on this, but I wouldn't be surprised if a legend dived Shadow with BSB could out-dps a dived Cloud with USB against Siren. Cloud's dive won't dual cast any darkness abilities and he also doesn't get any en-dark like Shadow does. Cloud's USB is really starting to show it's age IMO. Have Shadow spam the dark phys-blink ninja ability until he gets enough bar to use his BSB, then spam the 7 hit dark ninja ability and pray for doublecasts.
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Jul 16, 2018 01:07
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Elephant Ambush posted:So I'm building my first Siren team and need a little advice. Current theorycraft team: As far as Darkness abilities, Dread Weapon and Crimson Cross are both good, with CC being slightly more favorable if you're running dual healer and DW being better with single. Cloud wants Heavy stuff if he's running Dark with USB/LMR3, but you can probably drop OK in favor of a quicker entrust bot or a healer - pUSB isn't much more than a Hastega for you, since Orlandeau USB and Cloud USB both come with a better (albeit selfish) critfix and Seifer's chain gives the +50% ATK.
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Jul 16, 2018 01:07
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Elephant Ambush posted:So I'm building my first Siren team and need a little advice. Current theorycraft team: You only need 1 healer for siren, especially if you're doing a phys clear and don't need to waste turns ultra curing silence away. Cloud's gonna be useless(ish) for you since when he's not USBing he doesn't have a dark attack, unless you got his KH bsb. In which case he needs to be on your team. Orlandeau will do a shitload of damage with a cross skill of your choosing. e: wait, can cloud use darkness now? I don't remember that being a thing...
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Jul 16, 2018 01:30
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He got a Dark BSB in the KH event, and I think we're a month off from the XII event that gives us the Dark Heavy Physical abilities, which will actually give him dark stuff to use. This was the event right before KH in Japan, I think. Technically he can use the Earth/Dark Grand Charge right now, which at least does 4 hits for chain building - even if it's a little weak by itself and you're currently charging up for nothing. I personally wouldn't use him for a dark team quite yet unless you're going for a USB/BSB3 combo with an Entruster or something.
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Jul 16, 2018 01:44
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Oooooof I got the 6* I didn’t actually want at this time, with my current FFT/Holy situation. Yikes. I got the Dud. *Homer smiles slowly*
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Jul 16, 2018 02:11
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Elephant Ambush posted:So I'm building my first Siren team and need a little advice. Current theorycraft team: For my sub-30 Siren I used basically the same setup as you, with Cloud and Shelke for the last two slots. Yeah, Cloud doesn't currently have any dark abilities, but you can just entrust to him and spam his USB. I did have Aphmau USB for healing though, so you probably won't be able to sub-30 it like that, but clearing won't be a problem. That being said, Orlandeau or Shadow would be much better options.
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Jul 16, 2018 02:11
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Avalerion posted:Do you know if future ones are also this bad in needing one specific setup, or do the more varried realms allow variety in party building too? The d??? clears for each Neo Torment usually include the same 5 or 6 characters. There's likely some variability past the "easy path" that the day 1 clears go down, but for the most part Neo Torments want very specific party compositions. This is one of the problems I have with Neo Torments compared to, say, 5* Magicite fights -- by forcing a full realm team, you limit players' options much more strictly than single element (even considering the physical/magical split and even considering the elements that are low in character count for phy/mag). Considering that the game is billed as "build a party from your favorite characters", I view that as a serious breach of trust. At least with Magicites you can use whatever healers and supports you like and you can make most any character with BSB+ relics for a given element work. With Neo Torments, if you're not adhering to the "golden team", it's going to be somewhere between several times as hard to actually impossible -- and that's if you have the relics needed to make any team work. KPC_Mammon posted:I really hope I'm misinformed but I heard that this is the easiest of the nuTorments. I'm not optimistic about things going forward. Nah, Cucu is somewhere in the middle. The easiest are probably Yunalesca (very popular realm where you can actually make a single element team), Calcabrina (fairly tame as long as you have Edge's SSB2), or Nox Suzaku (almost entirely non-piercing magic and no status attacks). Coincidentally the three I've beaten. Zurai fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 02:24
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Armitage posted:Oooooof Get Alma's BSB and you'll see how drat good she is. No joke!
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Jul 16, 2018 03:34
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ceaselessfuture posted:Get Alma's BSB and you'll see how drat good she is. No joke! Yeah, but I don't have the mythril to try again, and this wasn't the 6* I was looking for to begin with. With Marche USB/Orlandeau OSB/Meliadoul USB out there to help with my FFT/holy DPS, I felt like this was a missed opportunity.
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Jul 16, 2018 03:43
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Zurai posted:The d??? clears for each Neo Torment usually include the same 5 or 6 characters. There's likely some variability past the "easy path" that the day 1 clears go down, but for the most part Neo Torments want very specific party compositions. FFT (and FFV) is kind of a bad example since there are only so many viable characters (for instance, nobody's really using Delita). Most Torments you'll want the requisite healer + support/buffer, but as far as DPS options go you probably have a few options to choose from unless you wanted an Imperil strategy. The good thing about realm chains is that they allow anyone to contribute regardless of elemental affinity. Practically necessitating Astra for a lot of them is pretty annoying, I'll give it that much.
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Jul 16, 2018 04:24
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Fister Roboto posted:For my sub-30 Siren I used basically the same setup as you, with Cloud and Shelke for the last two slots. Yeah, Cloud doesn't currently have any dark abilities, but you can just entrust to him and spam his USB. I did have Aphmau USB for healing though, so you probably won't be able to sub-30 it like that, but clearing won't be a problem. Thanks. I LD'd Shadow and did some honing. RNG is poo poo though. She hits way too hard even with wall and Shellga up 
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Jul 16, 2018 05:00
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Yeah I'd try looking at what other healer USBs you have, because Selphie's doesn't really give you any kind of mitigation unless you're abusing the last stand.
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Jul 16, 2018 05:05
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Fister Roboto posted:For my sub-30 Siren I used basically the same setup as you, with Cloud and Shelke for the last two slots. Yeah, Cloud doesn't currently have any dark abilities, but you can just entrust to him and spam his USB. I did have Aphmau USB for healing though, so you probably won't be able to sub-30 it like that, but clearing won't be a problem. Yeah, my sub30 is Orlandeau USB+Cloud USB+Aphmau USB with entrusters. I think Cloud can solo-DPS sub30 siren if you managed to snag his en-dark BSB and have his USB1. So don't discount that USB just yet. That said, I only did things that way because I didn't have a chain. To answer the original poster's post: with Seifer's chain, an LD Shadow+Orlandeau are going are going to be very good bets as long as you can give them abilities to chew through. I have R4 Dread Weapon and R4 Sanguine Cross and just alternate them. The damage is a little scary, but Dread Weapon double casting is always going to max you out again, especially under chain. Sanguine has less recoil damage and uses power orbs as the main orb (so less dark orb pressure), plus under chain with 100% crit Orlandeau will be capping very quickly meaning the extra potency from Crimson shouldn't matter. The only downside in general is that you're going to have to hone up even more darkness abilities for Seifer or figure out something else to use when he's not casting his chain.
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Jul 16, 2018 05:05
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I own both Cloud USB and BSB3 and he's definitely not fast enough to solo sub-30 Siren. Issue with Cloud is that he's generally way too slow.
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Jul 16, 2018 05:12
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I don't have the BSB3 to test out, but he's my solo DPS for sub30ing Midgardsorm with USB1+BSB2, and Midgardsorm has higher HP and DEF than Siren, so I just assume it would work. You basically just entrust the crap out of him and someone who can do party instacast. edit: also Chant or some other crit boost. eelmonger fucked around with this message at 05:54 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 05:50
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ceaselessfuture posted:Get Alma's BSB and you'll see how drat good she is. No joke! Yeah, I won't pretend Alma is my best Healer, but with her LMR, USB and BSB she makes an excellent anchor.
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Jul 16, 2018 05:52
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Alma USB providing proshellga, haste, and astra means she is one of my most used characters against bullshit content.
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Jul 16, 2018 06:05
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ApplesandOranges posted:FFT (and FFV) is kind of a bad example since there are only so many viable characters (for instance, nobody's really using Delita). It’s not a clear but I’ve got a Delita party up to 74% damage. I forgot his USB adds self crit of 50%. Along with Orlandeau’s USB, I realized I didn’t have to focus on one element by introducing Chant. On my first attempt, both were 9999ing crits with the realm chain up. There’s still some tinkering to be done so I’m curious how far I can take it. I do agree with your point though. For me, Ramza has provided the most options through different SBs; it’s been kinda neat to tackle this insane difficulty using old rear end tech like Chant and Tailwind
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Jul 16, 2018 06:06
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Delita is good and cool, his USB is great for entrusting to thanks to the IC2, and he's really versatile thanks to a general spellblade w-cast LM2. He just shits out damage with the new 5-hit spellblade.
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Jul 16, 2018 06:14
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FFT is weird because it's so heavy on physical holy that there's a massive amount of synergy, tho. Like Marche/Orlandeau/Agrias/Ramza (if we're talking ideal worlds where you have a Marche USB and most of everyone else's kit) is an insanely synergistic core.
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Jul 16, 2018 06:31
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imho they should have made wind Ramza's primary element and they should have made Marche literally anything other than a knight.
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Jul 16, 2018 06:45
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Fister Roboto posted:imho they should have made wind Ramza's primary element and they should have made Marche literally anything other than a knight. Honestly, Marche had a perfectly good niche to be the Heavy user based around a Fighter kit, but nope, had to go with the Paladin job! Because FFT doesn't have enough knights.
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Jul 16, 2018 08:47
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A better idea would've been to just leave Marche out of the game until they got to Shelke levels of desperate for FFT characters.
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Jul 16, 2018 08:51
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I think paladin/fighter is the most common job combo in ffta for the pc, so it wasn’t entirely arbitrary. But yea that hadn’t stoppped them before.
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Jul 16, 2018 09:31
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KataraniSword posted:Honestly, Marche had a perfectly good niche to be the Heavy user based around a Fighter kit, but nope, had to go with the Paladin job! Because FFT doesn't have enough knights. Probably saving heavy for Ritz.
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Jul 16, 2018 10:45
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I can't wait until we get Luso and his Fashion Disaster class.
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Jul 16, 2018 12:08
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FFTA2 might help, could get thief Adelle, monk Cid... mage or samurai Lusso, maybe?
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Jul 16, 2018 12:18
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luso's gonna have white 4 combat 5 knight 5
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Jul 16, 2018 12:22
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I just wanted an excuse to post this since we're talking about FFTA stuff https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_L65VrvcVNM
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Jul 16, 2018 12:36
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No reason to make Luso a Knight when Frimelda's right there
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Jul 16, 2018 15:37
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I played FFTA2 like 150 hours and I remember nothing about it. I remember FFTA1's plot and characters just fine.
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Jul 16, 2018 15:56
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Pander posted:I played FFTA2 like 150 hours and I remember nothing about it. I remember FFTA1's plot and characters just fine. I don't know why. FFTA2's plot is really easy to remember. Luso gets sent to a fantasy world and is like "gently caress YEAH, TIME TO BE A HERO!" and he does.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:11
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NinjaDebugger posted:I don't know why. FFTA2's plot is really easy to remember. Luso gets sent to a fantasy world and is like "gently caress YEAH, TIME TO BE A HERO!" and he does. If there's no plot, is there anything to remember?
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Jul 16, 2018 16:13
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There’s something about a blue haired witch wanting to destroy the world but it deliberately takes a backseat to just loving around. Still better than ffta1 where Marche is the one destroying the world because he can’t bear to see his friends having fun.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:19
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Avalerion posted:There’s something about a blue haired witch wanting to destroy the world but it deliberately takes a backseat to just loving around. Still better than ffta1 where Marche is the one destroying the world because he can’t bear to see his friends having fun. Pretty much this. FFTA's plot was like a bizarro world Neverending Story where Bastian decides from the outset that it's better if Fantastica doesn't exist and sets out to deliberately destroy it. Marche was the best final fantasy villain.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:23
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They should add Stiltzkin from IX and lone wolf from VI and boco
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Jul 16, 2018 16:41
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Bring in Cid for a IX machinist and then give him an oglop wardrobe record immediately.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:50
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NinjaDebugger posted:Pretty much this. FFTA's plot was like a bizarro world Neverending Story where Bastian decides from the outset that it's better if Fantastica doesn't exist and sets out to deliberately destroy it. Marche was the best final fantasy villain. The most charitable thing I can say about Marche's motivations is that the Ivalice he and his friends got sent to is an illusion made by some weird demon witch thing, for some reason. Mewt's alcoholic dad also got sucked in, too. Luso was sent to the literal world of Ivalice in the past, not long after the events of FFXII. It seemed the only way to even go home at all was to fill the grimoire he had, so going HELL YEAH HERO TIME was double awesome. I liked FFTA2 better since the law system was more charitable and the heavy focus on side-quests and little heres and theres was nice. The Bonga Bugle missions were fun if you read the editor's articles about the mission afterword. The Bonga Bugle: Silversun Edition posted:This month in the Bugle: It's very silly. 
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