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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4vs-ikznmA
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Jul 16, 2018 07:39
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Are those submarine simulators. drat. Pretty cool
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Jul 16, 2018 07:39
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That makes sense to do if your basically a side project for an electronics factory since it would take less parts than a gigantic CRT video display
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Jul 16, 2018 07:40
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now who said democratic centralism is all bad just listen to that musical number once everyone decides on the lyrics you all sing them at the same time  Larry Parrish posted:That makes sense to do if your basically a side project for an electronics factory since it would take less parts than a gigantic CRT video display
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Jul 16, 2018 07:42
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Larry Parrish posted:Are those submarine simulators. drat. Pretty cool board game from 1931 
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Jul 16, 2018 07:47
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7xndvitLa8
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Jul 16, 2018 08:45
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That's a cool video but it's funny that he uses like every other sentence to say the GDR/Warsaw Pact in general sucked
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Jul 16, 2018 08:53
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it's probably accurate tho, that is the reality
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Jul 16, 2018 09:17
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:it’s essentially demanding that socialist countries remain impoverished by the siege of global capital for the sake of their own sense of political correctness. i agree with this, I think it's disappointing obviously to see a concession to capital like this but im not disagreeing it probably needs to be made. its just weird that the same tankies who get extremely mad about the slightest hint of Reformism or Electoralism from the left in America immediately defend concessions like this.
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Jul 16, 2018 09:30
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Yossarian-22 posted:It's also ironic as hell that tankies will jump for joy when social democrats turn out to be sell outs and point out that they're not true socialists, but whenever authoritarian leaders make any kind of compromise, it's because things are obviously out of their control and who are you to judge???
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Jul 16, 2018 09:31
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:i agree with this, I think it's disappointing obviously to see a concession to capital like this but im not disagreeing it probably needs to be made. its just weird that the same tankies who get extremely mad about the slightest hint of Reformism or Electoralism from the left in America immediately defend concessions like this. it's almost like they're two completely different situations
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Jul 16, 2018 10:26
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'shooting a dude' and 'stabbing a dude' are also different situations, but it's insane to regard one as murder and one as not - in the matter of 'if you have commited murder', there's no meaningful distinction. so it is with concessions versus electoralism. the justifying logic behind both is the same, the onus is on you to elucidate what the substantial difference is - merely stating 'well they're different' is pure empty rhetoric.
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Jul 16, 2018 10:45
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People don't have much tolerance for reformism, because reformists aren't going to end imperialism.
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Jul 16, 2018 11:02
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china is engaging in imperialism rn, so that's not much of an argument. at any rate, your basic argument is conjecture - there's nothing inherent to electoralism that necessitates pro imperialism.
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Jul 16, 2018 11:15
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what if i just think its more likely that people storm the McBastile than wait patiently for 20 years while we stop state violence, let alone state violence being done elsewhere
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Jul 16, 2018 11:18
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rudatron posted:china is engaging in imperialism rn, so that's not much of an argument. at any rate, your basic argument is conjecture - there's nothing inherent to electoralism that necessitates pro imperialism. Imperialism is an inescapable function of capitalism, kid.
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Jul 16, 2018 11:23
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rudatron posted:'shooting a dude' and 'stabbing a dude' are also different situations, but it's insane to regard one as murder and one as not - in the matter of 'if you have commited murder', there's no meaningful distinction. this is self-evidently idiotic. we're talking about the differences between pre- and post-revolutionary states. one has a wide array of apparatuses built to protect the gains of the revolution and the other obviously does not. controlled concessions to a capitalist world system are a world away from "pragmatic" incrementalism within a capitalist state, because the foundations you've painstakingly built in the former scenario don't exist. there are no organizational or institutional controls on candidates, at least not right now. the present population of the us isn't radicalized or built on decades of political education, as is the case in cuba and china. the people will accept electoralism because they don't know anything else. reforms in a socialist state happen with the consent of a revolutionary mass base, and violate the wishes of that base at their peril. the two aren't comparable in the least.
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Jul 16, 2018 12:45
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HorrificExistence posted:board game from 1931 man i would like to know more about soviet-era board wargaming
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Jul 16, 2018 13:09
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if post revolution means bringing back private capital because the second world no longer exists and modern technology is too reliant on global trade then i guess I'm a trotskyist now
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Jul 16, 2018 13:20
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https://twitter.com/JuCheGuevara/status/943438652910325760?s=19 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxFPZaurHZA
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Jul 16, 2018 13:26
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Jul 16, 2018 13:31
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revolution dead, so what?
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Jul 16, 2018 13:39
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Well the meme writer is correct.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:09
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R. Guyovich posted:this is self-evidently idiotic. we're talking about the differences between pre- and post-revolutionary states. one has a wide array of apparatuses built to protect the gains of the revolution and the other obviously does not. controlled concessions to a capitalist world system are a world away from "pragmatic" incrementalism within a capitalist state, because the foundations you've painstakingly built in the former scenario don't exist. there are no organizational or institutional controls on candidates, at least not right now. the present population of the us isn't radicalized or built on decades of political education, as is the case in cuba and china. the people will accept electoralism because they don't know anything else. reforms in a socialist state happen with the consent of a revolutionary mass base, and violate the wishes of that base at their peril. the two aren't comparable in the least. if the purpose of cuban privatization is the further development of conditions to more fully realize a revolution later, then that logic also simultaneously lends itself into a support for electoralism, which establishes the same trend for left parties in the west. on the other hand, if such a shift to electoralism betrays complicity in the capitalist world order, then so does cuba engaging in privatization. the same logic applies both ways, and it's hypocritical to pick and choose ultra-leftism when it's convenient for yourself.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:16
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you're also betraying naivety if you believe that political institutions can be cleanly separated from the economic reality that generates them. they can't, and as the cuban economy privatizes, that economic reality will be dominated more and more by capitalist production, meaning that those institutions will then, eventually, begin rationalizing and justifying that system, in much the same way that the american state rationalizes and justifies capitalism.
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Jul 16, 2018 14:20
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politics being divorced from culture and the economics of workers is the whole basis of neoliberalism
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Jul 16, 2018 14:29
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american leftists have the choice of people's war, they simply choose not to engage in it
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Jul 16, 2018 15:31
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:People don't have much tolerance for reformism, because reformists aren't going to end imperialism. I think this hits the nail on the head. Tankies have essentially abandoned the demand for the abolition of capitalism, the state and private property for a much narrower demand for the end of (American) imperialism. Socialism as a team to cheer for, rather than a worldview.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:22
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Thug Lessons posted:I think this hits the nail on the head. Tankies have essentially abandoned the demand for the abolition of capitalism, the state and private property for a much narrower demand for the end of (American) imperialism. Socialism as a team to cheer for, rather than a worldview. Not to mention a lot of them treat anti-imperialism as a personal revenge fantasy.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:30
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Thug Lessons posted:I think this hits the nail on the head. Tankies have essentially abandoned the demand for the abolition of capitalism, the state and private property for a much narrower demand for the end of (American) imperialism. Socialism as a team to cheer for, rather than a worldview. Reformists aren't anti-capitalist.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:36
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bordiga liked lenin
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Jul 16, 2018 17:20
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Infernot posted:Not to mention a lot of them treat anti-imperialism as a personal revenge fantasy. Yeah, that stuff is straight-up fascism.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:22
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Reformists aren't anti-capitalist. They have a better claim to it than the literal billionaires who run China that you guys fantasize about giving foot massages to. But somehow it turns out that the reformists are the bad guys and the billionaires are the good guys, on the vain hope that the billionaires might smash imperialism one day.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:24
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Thug Lessons posted:They have a better claim to it than the literal billionaires who run China that you guys fantasize about giving foot massages to. But somehow it turns out that the reformists are the bad guys and the billionaires are the good guys, on the vain hope that the billionaires might smash imperialism one day. Lol. No.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:25
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When Americans helped out former Japanese fash during the Chinese Civil War, Chinese communists actually saved the lives of U.S. soldiers because up until 1945, the U.S. was second to none in its reputation for "anti-imperialism" and they figured that reports of American help for Chiang and his fascist goons must have been fake news. Just something to  about
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Jul 16, 2018 17:29
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Infernot posted:Not to mention a lot of them treat anti-imperialism as a personal revenge fantasy. Indeed it's quite astounding that people on the third world have a bone to grind against the west.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:14
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Plutonis posted:Indeed it's quite astounding that people on the third world have a bone to grind against the west. What did democratic socialists ever do to Algeria or Vietnam, huh?
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Jul 16, 2018 18:15
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Speaking of French "socialists," Hollande supported the Libya intervention and as president supported Saudi Arabia in Yemen by approving an 18 billion dollar arms sale to the Saudis.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:20
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Plutonis posted:Indeed it's quite astounding that people on the third world have a bone to grind against the west. Of course they do. And for that matter nations of relatively equivalent standing (c.f. Poland and Ukraine, or India and Pakistan) have plenty of bones to grind, and even ethnic groups within nations are ready to grind the bones too.The question is what all this nationalist bone-grinding is supposed to have to do with socialism.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:29
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| # ? May 10, 2024 00:27 |
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Person much smarter than me: "the west has a bone to grind with cuba" other person much smarter than me: "the 3rd world has a bone to grind with america" me smashing through wall holding bud light: "'bone to grind' isn't a real term you loving dorks"
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Jul 16, 2018 18:41
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