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Chev posted:Add spoiler tags. You obviously know how that works since you're using them for the DR part. Sorry I didn't really think I was spoiling anything but it's been a long time since I've had a new reader's viewpoint, my bad Though if accidentally spoiling it convinces even one person to not read Umineko I'd consider that a good thing
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Jul 16, 2018 18:01
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cheetah7071 posted:Then the mystery is wildly unsolvable until they just tell you I dunno about it being unsolvable? Like, I pretty easily figured out the main trick with Shannon and Kanon like into episode 3 (well I had a hunch even earlier than that, it was just the moment I was really like oh yeah this could really be it). It just took going back and rereading stuff from EP 1 where Shannon is talking about Battler and their stuff for me to feel confident enough to be like "oh I guess this is probably it somehow." Honestly I wasn't really confident in my solution and like I had a lot of details wrong, but I dunno. e: like I dunno, I just noticed pretty early on there were a lot of conversations between those two and Beatrice that felt kinda off and then some convos between the 2 of them and other house guests felt off as well. and once they reveal the old guy has been dead all along its pretty much like "ok yeah, there is going to turn out to be even less people on the island Snooze Cruise fucked around with this message at 18:10 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 18:04
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cheetah7071 posted:Meanwhile Umineko plays up having a solvable mystery and repeatedly tells you that the correct way to engage with the work is to try to solve it. Then the mystery is wildly unsolvable until they just tell you (it's guessable but there's no way to reject a dozen other theories) and the thesis (or one thesis at least) of the final episode is that you're ghoulish for gaining enjoyment out of a tragic situation by trying to solve the mystery. The individual episode-by-episode mysteries are also more interesting, though much of that sadly is perhaps more of a community aspect, people had so much time in between releases to try to suss everything out. Pretty much every theory under the sun got trialed-by-fire and thus there was not much "doubt" left when they really started beating you over the head with it. But now, since all of the chapters are just out there, people can't really have that sort of experience anymore.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:06
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My claim that the mystery is guessable but not solvable comes from having read it as it came out and seeing everybody working together fail to come to a consensus on the answer. The right solution was floating around as one of many plausible theories. I mean I guess it would have sucked if the discussion had died once someone figured it out but on the other hand that's what being solvable means
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Jul 16, 2018 18:11
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My favorite twists are all in Ace Attorney
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Jul 16, 2018 18:13
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Anyway I'm not really that much of a fan of DR either. The first one worked because it was new and fresh but once it lost its novelty it sucked outside of specific mysteries. That's why I like the V3 ending, because it's a piece of media turning to the camera and saying "yeah this sucked and we probably shouldn't have made it"
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Jul 16, 2018 18:13
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Yeah, Umineko isn't fair about giving you enough clues to solidly support one explanation above others, and that's the point the story makes, although it's kinda defeated by some interviews where the writer gives definite explanations that couldn't be deduced from the given informations alone, like how a gun missing on a crime scene was tied to a weight and fell behind some furniture, with none of that mentioned in-game. If it's supposed to stay fuzzy don't give it away.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:17
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One thing I liked in Umineko was the fantasy side of things would serve as hints too. Like when Gaap showed up I was like "oh this is definitely the type of character a servant would create to serve the same role as a gremlin" and yeah it was exactly that.cheetah7071 posted:My claim that the mystery is guessable but not solvable comes from having read it as it came out and seeing everybody working together fail to come to a consensus on the answer. The right solution was floating around as one of many plausible theories. I mean I guess it would have sucked if the discussion had died once someone figured it out but on the other hand that's what being solvable means I guess i get that, but I can't help but feel like if you took away the message in the bottle at the end of Then There Were None you could also get to people never really arriving a consensus together. But this doesn't really feel completely equivocal of course because... that book is incredibly short and its kinda different when you have something that long running that is really really throwing in your face how its solvable.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:19
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The only real thing that I look back on Umineko and wonder WTF was RK07 going for is the golden truth. It's used twice IIRC and what it actually means is giantshrugemoji.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:20
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Nate RFB posted:The only real thing that I look back on Umineko and wonder WTF was RK07 going for is the golden truth. It's used twice IIRC and what it actually means is giantshrugemoji. It means this is one of the rules that any valid Rokkenjima mystery variant has to follow to be legit
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Jul 16, 2018 18:21
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Accordion Man posted:Her Story A friend of mine brought Her Story to a gettogether where we threw it up on a projector and yelled search terms at each other. We accidentally broke the narrative when the person at the keyboard hit enter with a blank search box, which brings up a bunch of the early clips which drop clues critical to the plot. After that, the mystery unravelled very, very quickly for us. Still a great game.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:21
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The best twist in gaming is Baten Kaitos
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Jul 16, 2018 18:22
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Ometeotl posted:The best twist in gaming is Baten Kaitos Ooh yeah that one is good
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Jul 16, 2018 18:28
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Rainbow Six Seige started autobanning anyone who types a slur in chat and the results are pretty magical https://twitter.com/honkifyourgay/status/1018889934034391041?s=19 That snip is taken from this article
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Jul 16, 2018 18:29
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Accordion Man posted:I feel LA Noire would have been better if it came out nowadays (2K's insistence on online multiplayer aside) because I get the feeling that it wouldn't be forced to have shooting segments and would be allowed to just be a straight adventure game. I got super loving mad at LA Noire when it was clear to me that none of the suspects was the criminal, but there was no option to tell anyone that and the game forced me to put one of them away anyway and then later the twist was you convicted an innocent person!.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:30
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I skip into the craziness in Her Story pretty quickly because one search in I was like"Oh she has a tattoo in this video but in nearly every other one its covered by sleeves, what is a good trick that could use this" and typed in "twins" That was probably the smartest a game has ever made me feel. Honestly most mystery games are me just flubbing around forgetting details and being an idiot.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:32
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Dr Cheeto posted:Rainbow Six Seige started autobanning anyone who types a slur in chat and the results are pretty magical A good nickname for Raccoons is "wash mouse".
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Jul 16, 2018 18:39
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doingitwrong posted:A good nickname for Raccoons is "wash mouse". What happened to "trash panda"?
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Jul 16, 2018 18:40
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waschbär
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Jul 16, 2018 18:46
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doingitwrong posted:A good nickname for Raccoons is "wash mouse". In Swedish they're called "wash bears"
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Jul 16, 2018 18:46
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I shouldn't have hovered over that Her Story spoiler, I had been meaning to play it
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Jul 16, 2018 18:50
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doingitwrong posted:I got super loving mad at LA Noire when it was clear to me that none of the suspects was the criminal, but there was no option to tell anyone that and the game forced me to put one of them away anyway and then later the twist was you convicted an innocent person!. It's a noir
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Jul 16, 2018 18:52
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Mak0rz posted:In Swedish they're called "wash bears" That's what they're called in most languages I'm aware of, "raccoon" is the odd man out and I think originates from some Native American language or other. It's from the way they "wash" their food with their paws. CharlieFoxtrot posted:I shouldn't have hovered over that Her Story spoiler, I had been meaning to play it Due to the nature of the game you can get the main twist on the first search you make, IIRC searching for "her story" brings it up immediately for example. That game's more about getting to know the people involved and what exactly it was that led to the incident.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:54
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It was a trip seeing raccoons in the Taipei zoo when I would routinely see them in my parents' backyard
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Jul 16, 2018 18:57
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Yeah my favorite stuff in Her Story is like, all the fairy tale symbolism stuff instead of like, the actual mechanics of the mystery. There is still plenty of neat stuff to discover. Anyway who do I have to beat up to somehow get a sequel to Contradiction. I know its never going to happened but I love that game.
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Jul 16, 2018 18:59
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corn in the bible posted:It's a noir Kanfy posted:Due to the nature of the game you can get the main twist on the first search you make, IIRC searching for "her story" brings it up immediately for example. That game's more about getting to know the people involved and what exactly it was that led to the incident. Snooze Cruise posted:Anyway who do I have to beat up to somehow get a sequel to Contradiction. I know its never going to happened but I love that game. Accordion Man fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 18:59
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Speaking of FMV: I bought an FMV game on sale ~a year ago or something. The Infectious Madness of Doctor Dekkar. Has anyone played it? Should I actually set aside some time for it, or let it dwindle in my 4,000 game backlog? I keep forgetting about it and I don't think I've ever heard anyone talk about it. Apparently it holds the Guinness World Record for most FMV in a game.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:03
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Mak0rz posted:In Swedish they're called "wash bears" Oh! That's a superior moniker to my translation of the French "raton laveur".
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Jul 16, 2018 19:05
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Accordion Man posted:Also Cole Phelps is an rear end in a top hat. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=72VXMjO14oc
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Jul 16, 2018 19:05
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Saint Freak posted:The Infectious Madness of Doctor Dekkar 
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Jul 16, 2018 19:06
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Ometeotl posted:The best twist in gaming is Baten Kaitos That's probably the best twist on a GameCube game, yeah. Though the game your Avatar is based off of (Ghost Trick) also has a couple of solid twists.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:06
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWIom9QlbRI
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Jul 16, 2018 19:07
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the omnibus podcast with ken jennings and john kensfriend just covered washing bears. also omnibus is good if you are looking for a good podcast
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Jul 16, 2018 19:10
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the best twist in games is when you beat the special world in smw and it twists the palette of the whole game and it twists some of the enemy sprites too.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:23
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b_d posted:the best twist in games is when you beat the special world in smw and it twists the palette of the whole game and it twists some of the enemy sprites too. One of my favorite things regarding that is Dan's reaction to seeing that for the first time ever on Game Grumps: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xm1Lm7Y6m3w&t=209s (3:29-3:57)
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Jul 16, 2018 19:33
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Not sure how many of these count as "twists" or are just tonal changes, but I enjoyed them In New Vegas, finding out that, out of all factions, Arcade was an ex-Enclave is a pretty good swerve. The entirety of Xenogears is a big twist made of other smaller twists but I love the one where you're in a food manufacturer, starting from when they're already packaged(And both Fei and Elly eat quite a bit) going backwards untilyou get Soylent Green'd Not so much of a twist but more of a Rule Lawyering that I always enjoy: In Darksiders, War is bound to the Charred Council and their Watcher until his death as a punishment for exterminating humanity by triggering the Apocalypse too early;as the game progresses, however, you come to learn that a rebel Archangel orchestrated it and let War take the fall, and that one of the last triggers to summon the Four Horsemen, the Seven Seals, wasn't broken. Thus, after the final battle War is felled and his contract is fulfilled. Then an Angel breaks the Seventh Seal, summoning him back(and the other 3 to boot). Now he's free to go wild on the Watcher  Dragon's Dogma true ending involving killing yourself to break the cycle of rebirth of the dragon and the arisen The first time you attack an NPC from Young Town in Anodyne Scarlet from Alpha Protocolbeing the assassin from China the entire time, and also feeding all the info you gave her back to Leland. Brutal Legend being an RTS  Orsted chapter in Live a Live is probably my favorite.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:34
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Samuringa posted:Scarlet from Alpha Protocolbeing the assassin from China the entire time, and also feeding all the info you gave her back to Leland. Oh! I've been trying to think about twists i like and you just reminded me of everything involving Omen Deng which is so good.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:37
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If you want a pretty good book with meta commentary about murder mysteries, check out Magpie Murders. It's not as "gently caress you for enjoying solving murders" as v3 or umineko but it's sorta in the same vein.Dr Cheeto posted:Rainbow Six Seige started autobanning anyone who types a slur in chat and the results are pretty magical I wish this worked in Overwatch
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Jul 16, 2018 19:38
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Snooze Cruise posted:Oh! I've been trying to think about twists i like and you just reminded me of everything involving Omen Deng which is so good. Oh man yeah that was real good. Alpha Protocol rips, if they hadn't felt the need to shoehorn in combat it would have been a sweet Telltale-style game
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Jul 16, 2018 19:39
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I think I have like told 5 people about that twist because everyone just immediately kills them it seems. WELL I DIDN'T, CAUSE I ALWAYS KINDA LIKED THEM.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:40
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