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Also in my ToA game, another one of the players is a jerk. So as I said, one of the corridors is blocked by a big fan. If you run, you can dive through it while it spins up with a DC 20 athletics check (it might have been acrobatics, I forget). This check would have been a risk for someone proficient, but for this guy, the warlock, it would have been suicidal. I am frank with him: if you attempt this check, it is very likely you'll end up smeared on a wall of the other side. He attempts it anyway and he rolls digitally. Lo and behold, he makes it! After the game, and more importantly after he left, another player sitting next to him says to me that he saw the warlock fudge his rolls. Just silently rolled a couple times until he got a favorable result. I found this extremely disappointing, but not surprising. This player has that reputation. I don't generally care that people roll dice digitally; everyone else just silently shames them when it becomes increasingly obvious they're fudging their rolls. The next session on though, if a character's life is on the line, they're rolling a physical die where I can see it.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:32
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That's some "gotta let him play, this is america" poo poo... would you play with someone who used sleight of hand to improve his hand during a poker game? Like, I'm laughing at how brazen it is, but it's pretty clear to me he can't come back.
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Jul 16, 2018 16:44
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So you all sit around a table, some people roll physical dice, and some people tell you they rolled on their laptop and here's the result? But not on a server like roll20 where you can see their rolling?
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Jul 16, 2018 16:46
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tote up a bags posted:3d6 is cowardice, embrace accidentally stabbing your friendly NPC after crit missing, namaste. In my experience, most new players try to make some sort of idealized version of themselves (or a part of themselves), and their personality tends to be "what I would do". Here's my personal advice. A Fiasco style way to group the players. Tell Player 1 he owes a favor to Player 2 and ask why and what happened. Tell Player 3 that he once saved Player 1's rear end, and have them explain what happened. That sort of thing. It makes those weak "why would we even be doing this" or "why would I even help this guy" questions erode immediately. http://slyflourish.com/fiasco_relationships.html Firstborn fucked around with this message at 16:51 on Jul 16, 2018 |
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Jul 16, 2018 16:48
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:That's some "gotta let him play, this is america" poo poo... 
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Jul 16, 2018 16:51
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I've been very cavalier with how players roll since ultimately I want them to have some casual fun. I don't like to press suspicious rolls since The same player above does this really stupid thing with physical dice too: He'll roll and then pick up the die real fast then read out the number. Absolutely no one is fooled by that move and we have called him out on that.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:03
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Haha what a piece of crap Tell him if he keeps it up you'll roll for him since he can't do something a three year old can
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Jul 16, 2018 17:10
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mastershakeman posted:So you all sit around a table, some people roll physical dice, and some people tell you they rolled on their laptop and here's the result? But not on a server like roll20 where you can see their rolling? I use Fight Club for AL sometimes and roll on there or use a different dice app for big spell damage rolls. I’m not a shithead so my DM doesn’t care if I roll there then say the result.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:11
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Reik posted:The only real way to get away from the binary result of a check would be a dice pool with different levels of success and failure, like the Genesys system.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:17
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mastershakeman posted:Haha what a piece of crap He's one of those 'he's an rear end in a top hat but he's our rear end in a top hat' types except no one will actually claim him. We've all been friends for a very long time and status quo is too great to shake up and boot him or I would have. It wouldn't be the first time we had to give someone the boot but the need has to be extreme. Point is, I've already implemented the dice policy that looking at my texts, it's proving unpopular with 40% of my players but they'll get over it.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:23
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SettingSun posted:I've been very cavalier with how players roll since ultimately I want them to have some casual fun. I don't like to press suspicious rolls since Or stop playing with particularly poorly behaved children whichever works.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:25
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"You do all rolls in front of the table, anything else and it never happened." is a core rule I'm explaining in session 0. As is "you can borrow my real dice, digital rolling sucks" edit: Disclaimer: I am digitally rolling because I'm the DM and I'm a hypocrite
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Jul 16, 2018 17:32
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For a different take, I would emphasize how much more fun rolling physical dice than digital ones. I'd let those players with the tablets use my dice if they needed to. Roll in the center of the table, and tell everyone it's for drama purposes so we can all see the result together.
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Jul 16, 2018 17:37
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Explain that you're doing a very specific high lethal module where a bad roll means death , and fudging rolls is often ok in other settings but if you're going to in toa then there's no point in playing the module . Therefore, all rolls will only happen when dm requests them (to keep people from doing the classic roll , see if it's good, and "keep" it for when their turn comes up) Option a: do physical rolling and don't touch the die until I, the dm , sees the number. If you pick it up I'll roll for you Option b: do online rolling on roll20 that logs the time you rolled and I can verify if I want There's nothing wrong with digital rolling since it's way faster for large numbers of dice. Just need to have it shown
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Jul 16, 2018 17:41
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mastershakeman posted:Explain that you're doing a very specific high lethal module where a bad roll means death , and fudging rolls is often ok in other settings
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Jul 16, 2018 18:09
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Elysiume posted:Cheating is cheating no matter what setting you're in. lmao how is cheating at dnd at thing, dude this is not a game you win, like dude just let the players do whats fun haha
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Jul 16, 2018 18:26
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tote up a bags posted:"You do all rolls in front of the table, anything else and it never happened." is a core rule I'm explaining in session 0. Digital rolling allows the DM to make several consecutive rolls faster, more easily make hidden checks without the player knowing, and fudge rolls without anyone noticing (which tbh is part of the DM's job). As much as I like rolling physical dice, using an app makes my life easier as DM. Also lol what is the point of playing a game if you're just going to cheat your way out of failure every time
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Jul 16, 2018 18:28
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Conspiratiorist posted:lmao how is cheating at dnd at thing, dude this is not a game you win, like dude just let the players do whats fun haha
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Jul 16, 2018 18:54
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Conspiratiorist posted:lmao how is cheating at dnd at thing, dude this is not a game you win, like dude just let the players do whats fun haha Peak funhaving right here. That's punk d&d as gently caress, man. I'll never play in that dumb game, though
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Jul 16, 2018 19:02
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Conspiratiorist posted:lmao how is cheating at dnd at thing, dude this is not a game you win, like dude just let the players do whats fun haha For real though if you can't boot a terrible player like that for whatever reason (in my case he was my buddy's autistic son) just sequester the character in their own private narrative where they get to be totally awesome and free of consequences or meaningful challenge, far away from the rest of the group. Like every half hour or so you turn to that guy and spend a minute going "oooh, ahhh, you really destroyed those evil cyberninjas, all evil will surely fear the name Sasuke Darkblood from now on" and then go back to the group and get on with the real game. Everybody gets to have fun.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:31
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inthesto posted:Digital rolling allows the DM to make several consecutive rolls faster, more easily make hidden checks without the player knowing, and fudge rolls without anyone noticing (which tbh is part of the DM's job). As much as I like rolling physical dice, using an app makes my life easier as DM. Hmm indeed
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Jul 16, 2018 19:40
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Is the argument that you should never fudge rolls as a DM? I'm willing to consider that, but I think there are times where fudging has saved a session from becoming unfun. The only times I've fudged my rolls was to prevent a cheap PK or even cheap TPK. Like, ahhhh I didn't think this dragon hatchling's fire breath would instakill everyone, so I will fudge the damage roll, because the encounter was not meant to be death-dealing. If it's a big climactic fight or something like that, and I feel like I didn't create an unfair situation (or a situation created by poor player choices) then I don't fudge.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:52
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Yeah, like, I generally don't fudge damage but I will absolutely fudge NPC rolls into failures if that's more interesting or fun. More than once this month alone, I've made a roll, seen the result, thought it through for a second and realised it'd be better for the game if I just ignored that and decided to just go with it being a gently caress-up. Usually it ends up being in combat to ensure a cool idea gets to happen to at least some degree, rather than just being flat ignored wholesale. I don't really ever fudge into a success for an NPC because that's lovely and the situations where that'd be required can just be handwaved away with less hassle anyway.
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Jul 16, 2018 19:59
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I very much endorse Fantasy Ground's digital rolling, because you can roll dice (as a player) that only the dm can see, so you don't know your own stealth check or whatever. By default, the dm dicerolls are also hidden. The important part is that rolling secret dice does the same shadowy animation the dm rolls do, so right after you say "I enter the room", hidden-roll some d20s, one per player, and watch the other players panic, it's great. Once everyone else figures out what you're doing, stop. The dm will eventually actually do that, and you can watch everyone happily walk into The Biggest Trap (cool kids will also blithely walk to their own destruction, don't ruin the dm's fun)
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Jul 16, 2018 20:15
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I mean, it's not exactly controversial that the DM doesn't play the game; they facilitate it. There's times when a throwaway fight unexpectedly pummels the party and times when the big bad flails around uselessly because of consecutive bad rolls. Flipping the hit/miss switch to maintain appropriate levels of dramatic tension is a completely different ballgame than trying to say your character automatically does everything correctly, no matter how improbable.
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Jul 16, 2018 20:29
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I'm pretty against DM fudging rolls in either direction, it really makes me lose any tension I have in the game when I know the DM is ok with manipulating his RNG. It means that maybe that time I survived I really should have died, it makes me feel like I am playing with a safety net....which I don't want, even if the DM says they only fudge rolls in NPC favor, never in mine, the psychological effect is the same. It ruins the experience and any worry I might have, and without that apprehension, why would I want to play a game with variance like DND at all?
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Jul 16, 2018 20:41
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inthesto posted:I mean, it's not exactly controversial that the DM doesn't play the game; they facilitate it. There's times when a throwaway fight unexpectedly pummels the party and times when the big bad flails around uselessly because of consecutive bad rolls. Flipping the hit/miss switch to maintain appropriate levels of dramatic tension is a completely different ballgame than trying to say your character automatically does everything correctly, no matter how improbable. We just had a discussion about how it's blasphemous that the DM might play with different tools than the players, so I'd put it as fairly controversial.
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Jul 16, 2018 20:43
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Another picture from twitter on the new alt covers
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Jul 16, 2018 21:02
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Madmarker posted:I'm pretty against DM fudging rolls in either direction, it really makes me lose any tension I have in the game when I know the DM is ok with manipulating his RNG. It means that maybe that time I survived I really should have died, it makes me feel like I am playing with a safety net....which I don't want, even if the DM says they only fudge rolls in NPC favor, never in mine, the psychological effect is the same. It ruins the experience and any worry I might have, and without that apprehension, why would I want to play a game with variance like DND at all? You're not supposed to know he's manipulating his RNG though. If you think he is and you don't like it just say, "Hey can you not?" and he'll either stop doing it, stop doing it when it comes to you specifically, or do a better job of hiding it.
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Jul 16, 2018 22:57
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DKWildz posted:Another picture from twitter on the new alt covers Box set of the three manuals and screen available at gaming shops, $170 MSRP. Non-special cover box set will be at Amazon etc.
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Jul 16, 2018 23:16
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Toebone posted:Box set of the three manuals and screen available at gaming shops, $170 MSRP. Non-special cover box set will be at Amazon etc. The gently caress. Yeah sure I will buy your bundle of books I already own for $20 more than they cost individually.
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Jul 16, 2018 23:33
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I'd buy the reprint if they compiled the sub-classes and the UA Ranger they are claiming like a step-child into the PHB along with maybe a section on roleplaying explicitly considering the association with podcasts, etc. that do it, I'd re-buy it. But they can't do that because Adventure League has a stupid "PHB+1" rule
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Jul 17, 2018 00:10
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Firstborn posted:In my experience, most new players try to make some sort of idealized version of themselves (or a part of themselves), and their personality tends to be "what I would do". I hear this a lot, and it makes sense, but also, uh, well... In the first D&D game I ever played my quiet roommate was a stoic warrior, my friend who hunts was a ranger, my friend who makes goofy jokes constantly was a bard, and one of my more ambitious friends was a power hungry warlock. Everything lined up almost perfectly to reflect their real selves. I played a rogue who was a fast talking con man, but weak and unable to do much in combat. WHAT DOES THIS SAY ABOUT ME!?
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Jul 17, 2018 05:05
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fudging rolls as a DM is important bc sometimes you think "okay the party is level 1, this 1/4 CR poisonous snake shouldn't be too bad for them" but then you realize mid-combat that it has a 3d6 venomous bite.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:47
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I might buy those even though they're a bad deal because I don't actually own physical copies of any of them and goddamn those are pretty.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:47
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CubeTheory posted:I hear this a lot, and it makes sense, but also, uh, well... That you value the non-combat pillars of the game, or maybe you're such a good dude otherwise that stealing stuff and tricking people is fun escapism. It may not necessarily be your idealized self, just a shade. Maybe you just wanna be Han Solo. We all do.
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Jul 17, 2018 06:31
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One of the big points I'm stressing in my session 0 today is that D&D has three pillars, and interaction is (at least in my mind) the most important. I am also a huge fan of bringing interaction with environment into combat as much as possible, and this sort of interaction allows non-combat focused characters to still feel impactful in combat. In a game I'm not DMing I am playing a drunken master kenku monk, and I use the mobility from this to put myself in places to (for example) slam doors shut as people try to rush through them. We had a big fight in a tavern where I spent four rounds throwing alcohol all over the enemies so our wizard could toast them. Also I use the Kenku mimicry ability to throw out incorrect orders in the enemy pack leader's voice. So as not to gently caress with the DMs plans I wait until I've heard enough instructions from the NPC before I start using it, but we once had an entire band of enemy soldiers keep retreating then charging because they couldn't figure out who was telling them what to do. I am not a huge fan of combat in general (aside from creative spellcasting) and will always suggest to others who don't really like rolling big numbers into either utility spellcasting or something that has the mobility to interact with environment (monk, maybe rogue?) because then you blur interaction and combat and make it a bit less stale.
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Jul 17, 2018 09:21
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tote up a bags posted:non-combat focused characters I don't think there are non-combat character in D&D. tote up a bags posted:I am not a huge fan of combat in general I hope you find a game that really caters to what you'd enjoy.
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Jul 17, 2018 10:56
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Sorry I should've been more clear. I enjoy combat in D&D, it's a lot of fun. I should've said I am not a super fan of hours upon hours of it if it boils down to rolling dice against enemies' AC over and over. I think D&D does a great job of offering narrative combat options, and what I'm trying to express to my players is that your options in combat are plentiful and can be really narrative. Just keen to get them out of the MMO mentality.
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Jul 17, 2018 11:13
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AlphaDog posted:(In before) But then if something's too hard you can just go away and repeatedly gently caress up a simple task with no consequences to make the thing you need to do easier, and then the DM will admit defeat in all future scenarios and congratulate you on beating the game, and all the other players will stand up and clap. If you are playing like this then there are still going to be consequences for you loving it up.
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Jul 17, 2018 12:05
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