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Charles posted:I'm pretty skeptical on those kind of "reports". You have every right to be. Electrek and the writer of the article have a known affiliation with Tesla and write accordingly. poo poo source but some googling verifies the basic facts. https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/10/electrek-loonyland-referrals-scandal-goes-international-fred-lambert-doubles/
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Jul 17, 2018 03:11
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Cockmaster posted:Is it really as bad at the $35k price point as it is at, say, $15k? The 15k market doesn’t really exist anymore
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Jul 17, 2018 03:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:The 15k market doesn’t really exist anymore
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Jul 17, 2018 03:36
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FilthyImp posted:It's the chevy spark (which everybody but me abhors). That's the build quality and feature set a 15k car throws at you. I like the Spark. It's a cute little car. I find its ride to be a bit jouncy due to its low mass and short wheelbase, but otherwise it's pretty great. It's also really small. Like a 4-door Smart Car. I rode in one the other day while my son's fiance was car shopping. (She settled on a Mazda 3, shockingly). I think it's just too small for most people, particularly when there are much nicer, larger options available for not a lot more. Anyway, $20k is pretty much the minimum for useful, driveable cars.
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Jul 17, 2018 03:43
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Spark EV owner checking in. It's real cheap and real good. 400 lb-ft of torque!
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Jul 17, 2018 05:02
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RZA Encryption posted:Spark EV owner checking in. It's real cheap and real good. 400 lb-ft of torque! Yo these are cheap as all hell used. Should I get one? I like the idea of driving like I stole it every day for like a dollar.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:12
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I mean I've had it for a year and a half now and it's been great. All I've done is charge when needed and refilled the wiper fluid. We drive it 10 miles round-trip to the park and ride everyday. If it died tomorrow I'd get another.
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Jul 17, 2018 05:22
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Cockmaster posted:In the long run, successfully getting into the affordable car market would net them way more money than they could get from just luxury vehicles. It just requires far higher production numbers to turn a steady profit, which means way more time and money to get going. Then again the insane ego thing probably means he could easily dupe himself into changing the whole aim of the enterprise if he comes round to the viewpoint that it's just not going to work. But I can't see that happening given they are currently on ~260k Model 3's per year. Seems to me they have gotten through the worst of it and they are certainly in a better position than they were a few months back. Next big test will be whether they really can get the $35k model out, and whether they can do so and turn a profit on it.
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Jul 17, 2018 08:56
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I'm a Tesla fanboy but I've soured quite a bit on Elon lately. Nobody seems to able to handle having a personality cult, not even ironically. He even called one of the Thai rescue divers a pedo, just like Trump he will snap at any perceived slight. As much as he enables the EV future, he also gets in the way of much of it with this and with stupid Jetsons turbo thruster ideas, quite literally in the case of the Roadster 2.0. As far as the EV future is concerned, the iPace and the Kona seems to have the specs I really want. 60+ kWh, 100 kW charging, adaptive cruise and a decent lane keeper. Add a paid, profitable highway charging network which is nice to use and I'm set for life. Oh and remote control app for at least the climate controls. This will hopefully be what other manufacturers develop towards and not the Jetsons space cult bullshit.
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Jul 17, 2018 09:33
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El Grillo posted:Also it is literally the entire point of the company (mass adoption of EVs). Given his insane ego trips I think it is more than likely that Musk would run the company into the ground in the pursuit of achieving that aim rather than let it languish as this niche high-end producer. Though if all of Tesla's middle-class customers gravitate towards the Model Y once it arrives (not that implausible given the US auto market), it may not stay profitable for long.
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Jul 17, 2018 13:02
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Ola posted:I'm a Tesla fanboy but I've soured quite a bit on Elon lately. I would like Tesla and $TSLA a lot better without Elon Musk.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:36
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Subjunctive posted:I would like Tesla and $TSLA a lot better without Elon Musk. 
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Jul 17, 2018 15:36
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I would definitely love to be a fly on the wall for the next board meeting, though.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:37
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Cockmaster posted:Though if all of Tesla's middle-class customers gravitate towards the Model Y once it arrives (not that implausible given the US auto market), it may not stay profitable for long. they are going to make an absurd amount of money on the Y if they can deliver it for roughly 45, which should be very doable. First mover with an all-electric crossover? woo yeah print that money Frankly, I'm not sure why they didn't skip the 3, although the X has been a pretty dismal failure in part because of the retarded falcon doors USE REGULAR ENCLOSURES ON THE Y DUDES
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Jul 17, 2018 15:42
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Subjunctive posted:I would like Tesla and $TSLA a lot better without Elon Musk. KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they are going to make an absurd amount of money on the Y if they can deliver it for roughly 45, which should be very doable. First mover with an all-electric crossover? woo yeah print that money
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Jul 17, 2018 15:54
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What exactly is the difference between the Y and the X? Just smaller and with regular doors?
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Jul 17, 2018 15:54
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big crush on Chad OMG posted:What exactly is the difference between the Y and the X? Just smaller and with regular doors? Ahhh, now the S3XY will be complete.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:57
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Replace Elon Musk with Bob Lutz.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:57
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ilkhan posted:Without Elon $tsla would crash to where it "deserves" to be. Yes, I would like that.
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Jul 17, 2018 15:58
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Subjunctive posted:Yes, I would like that.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:01
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they are going to make an absurd amount of money on the Y if they can deliver it for roughly 45, which should be very doable. First mover with an all-electric crossover? woo yeah print that money I think the Hyundai Kona will be the real first mover in the crossover space.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:15
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blugu64 posted:Replace Elon Musk with Bob Lutz. I mean Lutz is credited for being the father of the chevy volt so he might be the one who pushed to make more EV stuff.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:21
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wargames posted:I mean Lutz is credited for being the father of the chevy volt so he might be the one who pushed to make more EV stuff. He's also a climate change denying poo poo head.
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Jul 17, 2018 16:24
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Ethereal posted:I think the Hyundai Kona will be the real first mover in the crossover space. Is this coming to the US? It might fly under the radar for a while as the tech press doesn't really care about anything that isn't Elon and the car press doesn't care about Hyundai.
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Jul 17, 2018 17:00
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:they are going to make an absurd amount of money on the Y if they can deliver it for roughly 45, which should be very doable. First mover with an all-electric crossover? woo yeah print that money I'm confused by this feeling because the Kona is an affordable EV crossover that looks nice and is affordable and is being manufactured by a real car company known for good vehicle quality, right now. By the time the Y could be manufactured (which will probably never happen anyway) there will be over 100 EV models on the market.
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Jul 17, 2018 17:51
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FistEnergy posted:I'm confused by this feeling because the Kona is an affordable EV crossover that looks nice and is affordable and is being manufactured by a real car company known for good vehicle quality, right now. So this is the claim you are making? By the time the Model Y hits the market, there will be over 100 EVs for sale on the American market. That is quite the claim.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:36
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It's because we'll be using Star Trek style warpcars by then. Because the Y will take a long time to come out. If it comes out at all.
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Jul 17, 2018 18:44
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The Sicilian posted:So this is the claim you are making? Not really, if you've been following EVs or can handle 5 minutes of Googling. Bloomberg: 120 EV models by 2020 https://about.bnef.com/blog/long-range-ev-market-set-get-crowded-2020/ There's a ton of sources but I picked a well-known one that puts the fact you're looking for right out front. If you want to nitpick about which ones you think will/won't be available in the American market, I could do the same thing for the Model Y. Except my argument would carry a lot more weight, since the companies on Bloomberg's list know how to make cars in large numbers at a profit. FistEnergy fucked around with this message at 18:48 on Jul 17, 2018 |
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Jul 17, 2018 18:46
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I doubt I could name 120 current ICE models.
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Jul 17, 2018 19:27
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There's 1000 combinations with 3 digit numbering, that'll give you good coverage on the lux brands.
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Jul 17, 2018 19:31
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Yeah there's way too many to keep track of what's being released where and what the differences are. The point is that EVs are about to go mainstream and Tesla's first mover advantage is over. Their original mission - to spend a lot of money to use their first mover advantage to gobble up market share - has failed. They spent all the money, but they didn't make cheap enough cars - or enough cars in general - to blunt the force of every established company entering the market once battery tech matured. Tesla has probably failed.
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Jul 17, 2018 19:38
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There will be 120 renders on Electrek by Christmas and 12 cars on the market in 2020.
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Jul 17, 2018 20:05
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FistEnergy posted:Not really, if you've been following EVs or can handle 5 minutes of Googling. Ola posted:There will be 120 renders on Electrek by Christmas and 12 cars on the market in 2020. I see the latter quote as the reality. There is no way there are 100 production, available for purchase EVs by the time the Model Y is available for purchase. This isn't a ding against other makes, but, the battery production capability needs to catch up with those lofty productions. *I am solely speaking of pure EVs, not plug in hybrids.
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Jul 17, 2018 20:08
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Ola posted:Is this coming to the US? It might fly under the radar for a while as the tech press doesn't really care about anything that isn't Elon and the car press doesn't care about Hyundai. The Kia Niro EV should also be coming to the US at around the same time.
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Jul 17, 2018 20:12
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Has anyone used one of the Electrify America chargers? Is it another NFC card with an e-purse or do they have card readers or what?
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Jul 17, 2018 20:58
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RZA Encryption posted:Has anyone used one of the Electrify America chargers? Is it another NFC card with an e-purse or do they have card readers or what? I haven't (there appear to be only 5 built so far, on the east coast), but their press materials say you can just swipe a CC quote:A 15-inch touch screen display includes redundant physical buttons below the screen. All chargers will have credit card readers to allow payment to be as simple and familiar as pumping gasoline at a service station.
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Jul 17, 2018 22:31
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Good. We can do better (plug in, car data informs charger who to bill later), but just sticking a card reader on the thing is better than most everything else. Gotta watch out for skimmers, but at least you don't have to make an account.
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Jul 17, 2018 23:18
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I forgot about the Kona and Niro. where i will go to the mat for Tesla is that they have by far the best sales model in the industry. when john q public walks in to a Hyundai or Kia dealership (which are loving dire places that have only just maybe started to climb out of the 10-year unlimited warranty cheap credit buy-here-pay-here buyer) that mother fucker is going to tell him to buy a Sportage or a Tucson or whatever. tesla has a huge advantage because they don't have a dedicated nationwide sales force of retards actively trying to convince customers not to buy electric cars. this is a big problem with the Bolt, too! I still think we're at the point where Tesla's sales model is an advantage. I will eat my hat if there are 100 battery EV only models that you can go out there and buy in 2020. Right now I count: 3, S, X, Bolt, Leaf, can you still buy a 500e? eGolf, Focus Electric, uhhh what else? That makes eight?
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Jul 17, 2018 23:21
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FistEnergy posted:I'm confused by this feeling because the Kona is an affordable EV crossover that looks nice and is affordable and is being manufactured by a real car company known for good vehicle quality, right now. just for the record the Kona is not available for sale and has not been priced, christ, why are you loving idiots making me defend Tesla I also think the Kona and the Niro are a bit too small. that segment is not where the real money is at. the real money is that you make a honda CR-V but it's electric. someone has to do this.
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Jul 17, 2018 23:25
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Isn't that the model Y?
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Jul 17, 2018 23:25
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