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IronicDongz posted:Personally as soon as I saw that City of Brass was mostly focused around melee combat, as an FPS, that sealed the deal on me not buying it. I played a couple hours of it and it's more of an rear end in a top hat physics game. There's a lot of environmental crap that doesn't care what trips it and you have both a ranged push and a ranged grab available at all times to abuse them with.
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Jul 18, 2018 07:45
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IronicDongz posted:Personally as soon as I saw that City of Brass was mostly focused around melee combat, as an FPS, that sealed the deal on me not buying it. it's not really, the whip has a long range on it and theres a shitload of stuff to throw at people. it's much more dark messiah. the two new characters both have ranged options, one being entirely ranged with throwing daggers and the other having a spear she can throw and magically recall.
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Jul 18, 2018 07:52
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Then their mistake was not leading their marketing charge with a video where everything is kicked to death
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Jul 18, 2018 07:57
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Synthbuttrange posted:Then their mistake was not leading their marketing charge with a video where everything is kicked to death There's a disturbing lack of kicking, just whipping and pushing with both hands.
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Jul 18, 2018 07:59
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City of Brass at least got a substantial character roster update recently, with more updates yet to come, so they do seem to be in it for the long haul to try and claw their way to a better place.
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Jul 18, 2018 12:58
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AG&D TOMORROOOWWWWWWWW YEEEEAH ...I'm a bit excite.
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Jul 18, 2018 13:20
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AkumaHokoru posted:AG&D TOMORROOOWWWWWWWW YEEEEAH ...I'm a bit excite. I like that a big part of the update is focused on adding new synergies that (sometimes significantly) change up existing weapons and not just new items. Kind of solves that Isaac problem where you play a new expansion and most of your drops are just the same old OG items https://mobile.twitter.com/DodgeRollBrent/status/1019041130774761472
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Jul 18, 2018 15:04
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juggalo baby coffin posted:its crazy how much the quality of steam has dropped since they stopped having any rules about what gets on there. not surprising, but crazy still. I've missed out on the launch of so many games that I've since bought and thought are fantastic. What's even crazier is the amount of people defending the "gently caress it, have anything" policy. So many people saying "YOU SHOULD NOT GET TO CHOOSE WHAT I CAN BUY" motherfucker its their platform, so long as I can still play my games on there they can basically do what they want.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:06
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goferchan posted:I like that a big part of the update is focused on adding new synergies that (sometimes significantly) change up existing weapons and not just new items. Kind of solves that Isaac problem where you play a new expansion and most of your drops are just the same old OG items I just made a specatle of myself at work reacting to this. TOMORROW. NOW. PLEASE. NOW. NOW. PLEASE.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:10
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Do we have any information on when, precisely, the update is dropping?
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Jul 18, 2018 16:16
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Infinity Gaia posted:Do we have any information on when, precisely, the update is dropping? https://twitter.com/DodgeRollGames/status/1017798842220150784 Tomorrow at some time, and that's the most precise we'll get until it actually drops.
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Jul 18, 2018 16:23
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PMush Perfect posted:Devs are actually fleeing from Steam because of it. A couple of them have said straight-out that they're not bothering with Steam any more, it's literally not worth the money. I don't see what the point is in supporting itch.io of all places if what I'm fleeing is services full of lovely games that's hard to navigate. 
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Jul 18, 2018 17:33
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Lack of alternatives? Itch.io actually reminds me of late-90s era Newgrounds. There was some really good stuff on there for a while, including some games that later mobile games "borrowed" from. (Ask me about Crush The Castle.) Fake edit: Or maybe pre-buyout Kongregate is a better comparison. A couple of those even made a very successful jump to mobile, perhaps most notably the Bloons and Kingdom Rush series of tower defense games.
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Jul 18, 2018 18:05
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victrix posted:Every game with random drops should have this feature: I haven't unlocked that yet. I picked up Synthetik a few days ago. I've gotten to what I presume is the final boss area (I'm not just doing one boss fight, I'm fighting multiple boss waves) but I keep getting stuck on the second portion, with the infinitely spawning enemies, the shifting damage floors, and the 4 servers you need to hack by standing next to them. How the hell are you supposed to manage that? It feels a little bullshit; I'm basically immediately flailing around desperately killing enemies as fast as possible while I try to not be standing on a damage floor, try not to expose myself to all of the enemies at once hacking a server, and try to kill the enemies that spawn in 4 at a time, usually with at least one of them spawning directly next to me and probably unloading directly into my face the second they spawn in.
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Jul 18, 2018 20:57
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that sounds like the disco room people were talking about a page or 2 ago
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Jul 18, 2018 20:59
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The devs did say they were going to do some major reworks on bosses in an upcoming patch. Not the one currently in the beta, but the next one. Anyway, the disco room seems to be on the chopping block. For now, really all you can do is have overwhelming crowd control and good survivability.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:09
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juggalo baby coffin posted:its crazy how much the quality of steam has dropped since they stopped having any rules about what gets on there. not surprising, but crazy still. I've missed out on the launch of so many games that I've since bought and thought are fantastic. I remember when this was brought up around the time of the announcement on these very forums, and idiots derided it and claimed that good indie games with a limited marketing budget and not many options would simply magically rise above the neverending tidal wave of poo poo, no doubt carried up by their magical bootstraps. I wish those concerns about store quality had been ridiculous, I'm hearing complaints like yours more and more. At this rate Origin is starting to look good.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:10
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Sacrificial Toast posted:The devs did say they were going to do some major reworks on bosses in an upcoming patch. Not the one currently in the beta, but the next one. Anyway, the disco room seems to be on the chopping block. For now, really all you can do is have overwhelming crowd control and good survivability. That's good, I don't think there's a single boss fight that feels like it belongs in the game Edit: the arena fight is okay dyzzy fucked around with this message at 21:25 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 21:20
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dyzzy posted:That's good, I don't think there's a single boss fight that feels like it belongs in the game I've never been able to even make it to the Disco room but I share your opinion
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Jul 18, 2018 22:04
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I think boss fights are the bane of many roguelites/roguelikes because they're games allegedly about proc gen but the final and often hardest challenge ends up being a fixed thing you just need to memorize. I wish more games were just like Invisible Inc. and made the final confrontation...just a harder version of the same game you're playing already!
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Jul 18, 2018 22:16
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Olesh posted:How the hell are you supposed to manage that? It feels a little bullshit; I'm basically immediately flailing around desperately killing enemies as fast as possible while I try to not be standing on a damage floor, try not to expose myself to all of the enemies at once hacking a server, and try to kill the enemies that spawn in 4 at a time, usually with at least one of them spawning directly next to me and probably unloading directly into my face the second they spawn in. This sounds badass honestly
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Jul 18, 2018 22:24
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hito posted:I think boss fights are the bane of many roguelites/roguelikes because they're games allegedly about proc gen but the final and often hardest challenge ends up being a fixed thing you just need to memorize. I wish more games were just like Invisible Inc. and made the final confrontation...just a harder version of the same game you're playing already! NetHack mostly avoids this by having notoriously easy boss fights (with the biggest exceptions being bosses who don't appear in all games, like Demogorgon and Master Kaen - and with the scare monster buff in 3.6.x, even Master Kaen isn't as scary as he used to be). You still need advance knowledge to beat many of the bosses, but the advance knowledge is usually something fairly straightforward, especially compared to the outside knowledge needed for other aspects of the game.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:33
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PMush Perfect posted:Devs are actually fleeing from Steam because of it. A couple of them have said straight-out that they're not bothering with Steam any more, it's literally not worth the money. They’re fleeing by getting developmental jobs outside of games, right? Because otherwise, 
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Jul 18, 2018 22:50
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Yeah I know there's been a lot of discussion on the endless tidal wave of mostly junk $0.99-$9.99 games flooding Steam on a daily basis, but I can't help but feel like a lot of really good indie titles are getting washed out to sea in the process. A lot of that blame is on Steam--whether or not you think they should impose some sort of "quality control" feature, the fundamental way Steam curates and recommends titles for me is almost always incompetent. When steam was relatively small and curated, just getting onto it and showing up under new releases was all the marketing you needed. Now anyone and everyone can pretty much sell whatever they want, it no longer does that. It's just a storefront, and if devs want attention they need to do the marketing and publicity stuff themselves.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:50
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hito posted:I think boss fights are the bane of many roguelites/roguelikes because they're games allegedly about proc gen but the final and often hardest challenge ends up being a fixed thing you just need to memorize. I wish more games were just like Invisible Inc. and made the final confrontation...just a harder version of the same game you're playing already! fixed challenges aren't the worst thing in the world. not everything in a roguelike needs to be proc generated - fixed challenges can be interesting because your performance in them is an evaluation of how well you've done dealing with the randomness up to that point. the problem is when the fixed challenge constrains your set of allowed options; FTL is probably the easiest example of this. many ship loadouts can deal with the entire game except for the final boss, but if you're interested in actually winning, they aren't acceptable to use at any point in the run. from what i remember dredmor similarly requires one of a set of fairly specific solutions too, though it's much more flexible about it than FTL is.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:54
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Jordan7hm posted:They’re fleeing by getting developmental jobs outside of games, right? For now the hot thing for indies is getting on the switch but I'm sure quite a few of them are getting out of the industry entirely.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:08
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The irritating thing about Dredmor is that the boss used to be a relative pushover. A crossbow and a few Eldritch Bolts, or mass-stacking other sources of damage-over-time, was pretty much all you needed. Then they decided to amp his resistances out the wazoo so now you need large amounts of extremely focused (single-shot) damage if you want any of it to get through his resists. Even back in the day though, there was always the possibility if you tried to melee him that he'd dodge your attack, counterattack you, get a critical hit on the counterattack, then on his turn attack you and get another critical hit. Very few characters could survive that, so meleeing him has always been at least somewhat suicidal.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:09
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Some of the most interesting stuff is fairly fixed. It sort of makes sense having the hardest encounters be somewhat predictable.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:09
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DisDisDis posted:This sounds badass honestly The obnoxious part of the disco room is that sometimes all four sides of each server can have the damage floor active at once, so you can’t hack it at all, and if you walk away from a partially hacked server you have to start over. So sometimes there’s actually nothing you can do except get swarmed and die. Also sometimes enemies that explode on death spawn right next to you. There’s also no cover that you can take while hacking. It really just betrays pretty much all of the mechanical concepts of the rest of the game since you just have to go all Nuclear Throne rather than tacticool head clicker. RyokoTK fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 23:11
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Jul 18, 2018 23:16
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Considered writing up a big post about why I think that the Serpent of Chaos from [insert *band variants here] is one of the better Just Plain Dukin' It Out With A Big Boss fights I've encountered in a roguelike (maybe I'll write it out later, who knows). You can't just use One Strange Trick to trivialize him, and he's enough of a beef wall that you have to actually engage with him and his mechanics, plus his summons and wall eating and some other stuff make it so you can't just chill out and damage race him in one spot while ignoring the rest of the entire level beyond the tiles you and him are in. And it's all stuff you've actually been doing for the rest of the game, everything in the fight is something you have been practicing up til then, which is nice.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:43
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Klaus Kinski posted:Some of the most interesting stuff is fairly fixed. It sort of makes sense having the hardest encounters be somewhat predictable. Isaac, Gungeon, and Monolith all have at least the intermediate bosses randomized, with fixed final bosses. But I'm not sure the final bosses count as the hardest encounters even most of the time. - Mom's Heart isn't all that tough once you've gotten used to the game, and once you've beaten it several times the difficulty scales a bit via replacing it with It Lives. As you unlock more and more, the Womb 2 ceases to be anything resembling an end boss and more of a stepping stone on the way to the other branch end bosses, each of which ramps up more and more. But for most of those branch end bosses, odds are pretty decent that you've scaled up dramatically. Chest/Dark Room also frequently offer significant power boosts at the last second. - Dragun's first phase is easier than pretty much every boss on the previous floor, and his second phase, once learned, is a freebie. The Pasts vary in difficulty somewhat, but they also all have a fixed loadout, so no matter what shape you're in when you beat the Dragun, you can always take a fair crack at the past if you want. The sixth floor is more an exercise in draining your resources; I've died more times to running out of ammo and hard room layouts than I've died to the boss there. If you can make it there without having dumped all your ammo, you can probably beat the boss once you've actually seen the patterns. Gungeon also caps your ability to scale up - bosses cap the DPS you can do to them with all but 2 weapons - Monolith, at least, feels like the last boss is harder than any of the bosses that come before it. But Monolith also feels, in general, like it has a tighter power curve since your damage doesn't continually scale up. Nethack's another good example - by the time you make it to any of the "bosses", they are trivial compared to the hordes you plow through on a regular basis. Olmec isn't nearly as challenging as compared to the task of actually getting to him alive in Spelunky. The Rebel Flagship in FTL is difficult if you try and do a straight up brawl, but can be planned around and trivialized - once you've learned how the battle works, you're more likely to lose a run before getting to a flagship than to the boss itself.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:07
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DoomRL - aka the greatest roguelike of all time™ - also has a lot of fixed areas. All the bonus levels are predetermined.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:11
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Gonna throw out the hot take that “this boss kills you the first three times you see it and then never again because you know it’s patterns” isn’t especially compelling.
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Jul 19, 2018 00:12
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RyokoTK posted:Gonna throw out the hot take that “this boss kills you the first three times you see it and then never again because you know it’s patterns” isn’t especially compelling. Bosses you have to learn like that are cool in real time action games like gungeon because they're still a test of skill and reflexes even when you know the 'solution'. But they're pretty bad in proper actual real roguelikes (or other turn based games).
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Jul 19, 2018 00:52
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Your character's circumstances ought to be different enough on a given run that the boss fights feel different enough each time, too. Gungeon's first bosses can feel samey because you so often end up doing them with the starter pistol.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:21
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I like the Dredmore skill system a lot. It’s a ton of fun to play around with different builds. It’s just too bad about all the rest of the issues the game has. Like that boring level generation. Bleh.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:35
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gungeon should give you a guaranteed new gun on the first floor. too many runs wind up with me getting just some lovely passive items that would be great later on, but fighting the boss of floor 1 with that wretched pilot pistol sucks rear end.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:52
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Don't start as the pilot? You are guaranteed a gun from the boss if you haven't picked up a gun on the floor, which does include dropping one of your own guns and picking it up again. (This might have changed in AG&D)
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Jul 19, 2018 02:02
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BaconCopter posted:Don't start as the pilot? listen pal the pilot can unlock things
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Jul 19, 2018 02:16
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