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hyphz posted:Honestly, I'd be tempted in most cyberpunk games to say that social engineering is the only hacking left. With some experience in high-stakes modern infosec, I don’t think this is the case. Defense is a lot harder than offense, structurally, and security defenses tend to introduce the kind of friction that well-meaning people will wiggle around to make their lives easier. The rate of technology adoption in the Sixth World should present lots of opportunities for interesting ways to attack a system, independently from or combined with subversion of the system’s human elements.
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Jul 18, 2018 20:43
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Kai Tave posted:As much of a fan as I am of 4E and grid-based tactical combat in general, Star Wars is one of those settings where I wouldn't really demand it. The best currently existing, I should have said.
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Jul 18, 2018 20:51
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Moriatti posted:The best currently existing, I should have said. As much as I kind of dislike Fate because of it being a generic system, it really is the best possible system to run Star Wars in because Star Wars is basically pulp WW2 commando stories that sometimes also have samurai duels in them, and Fate does pulp pretty drat well.
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Jul 18, 2018 20:53
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Yeah but Fate suuuuuucks
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Jul 18, 2018 20:53
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FATE is bad for anything with a combat focus.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:11
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I also ran Star Wars in Strike and it went pretty well. I didn't have to deal with Summoner or Shapeshifter though, and I could see those being a pain to reskin, though you could do some Force shenanigans I suppose.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:19
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Serf posted:I also ran Star Wars in Strike and it went pretty well. I didn't have to deal with Summoner or Shapeshifter though, and I could see those being a pain to reskin, though you could do some Force shenanigans I suppose. I'd probably do Summoner as a guy who droid controller type, and Shapeshifter can really easily any sort of character with multiple loadouts, like a bounty hunter or special forces type.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:24
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Serf posted:I also ran Star Wars in Strike and it went pretty well. I didn't have to deal with Summoner or Shapeshifter though, and I could see those being a pain to reskin, though you could do some Force shenanigans I suppose. Summoner is how you play as Jabba the Hutt. Shapechanger is... Tough for sure, I would probably flavor them as a Bobba fett type who has a bunch of different weapons but can only hold one at a time and they are unworldly to change.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:28
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Subjunctive posted:With some experience in high-stakes modern infosec, I don’t think this is the case. Defense is a lot harder than offense, structurally, and security defenses tend to introduce the kind of friction that well-meaning people will wiggle around to make their lives easier. The rate of technology adoption in the Sixth World should present lots of opportunities for interesting ways to attack a system, independently from or combined with subversion of the system’s human elements.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:33
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Halloween Jack posted:Just thinking hypothetically, if governments retreat even further in the face of capital and corporations gain extraterritoriality and so on, would you expect a lot of competing standards, proprietary systems, ill-advised in-house development, and other sorts of baroque poo poo that would make systems more vulnerable? I don’t think government really helps prevent that much in the US today, outside of maybe healthcare with HIPAA. Even outside the US it’s mostly about trying to protect consumers rather than companies, other than some investigation assistance after the fact, and things around CEI. Which I guess is a way of saying we already have that poo poo, and it won’t stop because Amazon can issue passports and arm a militia. Generally I’d say it’ll still be possible to get in (harder with harder targets, and you’ll get proportionately less when you do), but easier to get caught, and when you get caught it’ll suck a lot more.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:45
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GimpInBlack posted:The best Star Wars game is Fate Accelerated. The only thing you might need to house rule is the name of the Forceful approach if your players are the sort that would make a million tiresome puns about it. I have not read a lot of FATE accelerated, but it strikes me, by most peoples selling of it, as the clearest case of a game where the core mechanic is explaining to the Game master why the stat I'm good at is the stat I can use to do everything ever.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:56
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I know I’m late to the party, but longest running campaign for me would have to be an Exalted 2.5 Dragon-Blooded game that started with them as a Wyld Hunt circle, and ended with them being a Super Sentai team, with belts and stupid combining weapons. It was going to last a year, maybe a year and a half, but ended at the three year mark with many delays due to me being unable to find that magical extra player. See, I had five players, and we needed one more to be the sixth member. But everyone who we tried either didn’t click with the group or were so flakey I had to just write them the gently caress out of the game so we could end it. Next time I’m doing it as a podcast, so at least that’ll wrangle them a little better. On a different note: anyone going to Okashicon this weekend?
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Jul 18, 2018 21:56
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remusclaw posted:I have not read a lot of FATE accelerated, but it strikes me, by most peoples selling of it, as the clearest case of a game where the core mechanic is explaining to the Game master why the stat I'm good at is the stat I can use to do everything ever. That's my experience with it, both as a player and gm.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:00
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On the topic of "no idea is too dumb for this, the dumbest timeline," my friend and I were joking about a tabletop RPG where you can spend IRL money to buy in-game currency and XP which is also IRL crypto and you can invest in it and trade it and spend it in an app to buy advances and items for your character sheet which is stored in the app. Oh, and we would obviously pay our employees 50% of their compensation in crypto. Basically take every scummy SV capitalist trick and combine with scummy videogames microtransaction bullshit. Anyway, I'm off to the valley to pitch some angels on my new disruptive product and arrange for an ICO, byeee.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:09
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Meyers-Briggs Testicle posted:Has anyone ever tried making an rpg where actions resolve simultaneously? The concept of rounds and turns in 6 second increments has always been weird to me. You could use a high-Speed maneuver that foiled whatever your enemy was planning to do (with a throw or sweep, for example) or take their attack on the chin and then hit them with something stronger. Heliotrope posted:Burning Wheel doesn't have a grid, but the detailed combat rules do this. Each side writes out a script of what they're going to do ahead of time, without letting the other side know, and then you play it out. There's a whole bunch of actions you can take and trying to figure out what your opponent is likely to do and attempting to counter it is a big part of it. I've played Burning Wheel, but when I did the GM used the simple rules for combat so I'm not sure how it works out in actual play. Tendales posted:The dark sun book should have been the launching point for a 4.5e. Inherent bonuses is a must-use rule change.
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Jul 18, 2018 22:13
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remusclaw posted:I have not read a lot of FATE accelerated, but it strikes me, by most peoples selling of it, as the clearest case of a game where the core mechanic is explaining to the Game master why the stat I'm good at is the stat I can use to do everything ever. This is exactly how it works. It's exhausting
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Jul 18, 2018 22:14
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Jimbozig posted:On the topic of "no idea is too dumb for this, the dumbest timeline," my friend and I were joking about a tabletop RPG where you can spend IRL money to buy in-game currency and XP which is also IRL crypto and you can invest in it and trade it and spend it in an app to buy advances and items for your character sheet which is stored in the app. Oh, and we would obviously pay our employees 50% of their compensation in crypto. Basically take every scummy SV capitalist trick and combine with scummy videogames microtransaction bullshit. Isn't this just Second Life?
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Jul 18, 2018 22:14
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Jimbozig posted:On the topic of "no idea is too dumb for this, the dumbest timeline," my friend and I were joking about a tabletop RPG where you can spend IRL money to buy in-game currency and XP which is also IRL crypto and you can invest in it and trade it and spend it in an app to buy advances and items for your character sheet which is stored in the app. Oh, and we would obviously pay our employees 50% of their compensation in crypto. Basically take every scummy SV capitalist trick and combine with scummy videogames microtransaction bullshit. I'll be the DM. First payment is due tomorrow. Also if you run out of money, your character dies, and if your character dies, you die. 
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Jul 18, 2018 22:16
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:I'll be the DM. First payment is due tomorrow. Also if you run out of money, your character dies, and if your character dies, you die. Full honesty: if you make it, I’ll run it for charity
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Jul 18, 2018 22:26
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Lemon-Lime posted:I genuinely don't know how you can think the badly-designed custom symbols are easier to parse than actual dice pips/numbers, that the game having six different types of dice is good, or that asking people to buy two £15 packs of custom dice so they have enough to actually make a roll is reasonable. Also I and the people I've played it with find matching the icons fun  Lemon-Lime posted:The problem with the advantage/disadvantage system is that the games need to give a bunch of examples for what kind of effects correspond to 1/2/3 advantage or disadvantage for each skill as a basis for the GM to come up with their own effects. They don't do this; instead they provide a couple of generic examples that honestly don't work a lot of the time, and then do the equivalent of the Good mechanics explained poorly is kind of their thing (which is bad) Splicer fucked around with this message at 23:14 on Jul 18, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 22:37
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emote and leave the entire mechanic completely half-baked.
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Plutonis posted:The best was D20.
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Jul 18, 2018 23:10
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remusclaw posted:I have not read a lot of FATE accelerated, but it strikes me, by most peoples selling of it, as the clearest case of a game where the core mechanic is explaining to the Game master why the stat I'm good at is the stat I can use to do everything ever. I kinda feel like in a game of FAE you have to put your foot down and go "No, you can't use Furtive to attack someone who knows where you are. Pick something else." sometimes. And I don't know, that seems fine to me? Like in most cases you wouldn't let someone in Blades in the Dark use Prowl to fight a constable, would you?
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Jul 18, 2018 23:50
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The FFG star wars dice resolution mechanic is okay I guess but not amazing at what it does - I agree with lemon-lime and would add that it needs more advantage / disadvantage options with direct mechanical support (beyond strain and "add a blue/black dice to your next roll", the second of which is particularly lame). The combat and gear stuff is just a total disaster though. I'm less bothered by the rocket-tag aspect, because the combat is so boring that anything that makes it shorter is a plus. There's so few actually interesting decisions to make, unless the GM goes out of their way to offer them (with very little mechanical support from the game itself). There's also barely any support for making appropriately challenging encounters. The gear list, meanwhile, follows the old-style d&d pattern of just trying to cram as many things in there as possible rather than thinking about how they might make the game interesting (and there's not much support for dealing with money either, so the main mechanic for distributing gear doesn't work so well either). paradoxGentleman posted:I kinda feel like in a game of FAE you have to put your foot down and go "No, you can't use Furtive to attack someone who knows where you are. Pick something else." sometimes. And I don't know, that seems fine to me? Like in most cases you wouldn't let someone in Blades in the Dark use Prowl to fight a constable, would you? I haven't played FATE, but the same problem arises in D&D 4e skill challenges and just forbidding obviously inappropriate skills doesn't really solve the problem. There's usually a bunch of skills that are at least kind of appropriate, and which you don't want to forbid, but always allowing them means that players still end up using nothing but a handful of skills. Only played one game of blades so far, but it seems to work a bit better there because there's more mechanical support for ways to say "sure, you can use your higher-dot-but-not-exactly-optimal skill, but...". Jeb Bush 2012 fucked around with this message at 00:01 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 18, 2018 23:52
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The next time I run an approaches-based system like FAE I want to explicitly enforce the risks of using an approach. Like using Forceful causes collateral damage, using Flashy attracts attention, or Careful always takes extra time. Means that you could use whatever approach you want in any given situation, but you might not like the consequences.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:44
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I expect this sort of tomfoolery from that rapscallion Plutonis, but you sir should know better than to say a thing like that.
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Jul 19, 2018 01:57
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I don't know how anyone can be any sort of 4e stan and also not acknowledge the role that SAGA played in that process.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:01
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paradoxGentleman posted:I kinda feel like in a game of FAE you have to put your foot down and go "No, you can't use Furtive to attack someone who knows where you are. Pick something else." sometimes. And I don't know, that seems fine to me? Like in most cases you wouldn't let someone in Blades in the Dark use Prowl to fight a constable, would you? It even spells that out explicitly in the book, some approaches just don't apply for some situations. The main problem I've run into is that a significant number of FAE fans are just deeply opposed to the idea that you can't justify using a particular approach for anything at all. I don't think it's a powergaming sort of thing, but it does just seem to be a thing that some of the fans hook onto... The biggest problem isn't so much in core FAE where it's easy enough to say "no, you can't use Forceful to rip a blast door apart, you need to come up with something different)", it's that FAE has become kind of popular for super-hero gaming and it's really, really hard to explain why someone like the Flash can't just use Quick for everything.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:04
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gradenko_2000 posted:I don't know how anyone can be any sort of 4e stan and also not acknowledge the role that SAGA played in that process. Okay but then you need to specify SAGA and not the d20 Star Wars which preceded it, which was complete bollocks.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:04
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Yeah SAGA is cool as hell and I had a super nice campaign when I played it almost a decade ago
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Jul 19, 2018 02:05
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Kai Tave posted:Okay but then you need to specify SAGA and not the d20 Star Wars which preceded it, which was complete bollocks. I forgot about that one
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Jul 19, 2018 02:05
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Plutonis posted:I forgot about that one I think a lot of us would like to forget about that one.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:06
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Kai Tave posted:Okay but then you need to specify SAGA and not the d20 Star Wars which preceded it, which was complete bollocks. ah ha, my mistake then - yes I did mean SAGA specifically and yes SWd20 was not-good.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:06
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People say SAGA and I'm wondering why the hell someone would adapt Dragonlance: Fifth Age to Star Wars.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:10
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Jeb Bush 2012 posted:The FFG star wars dice resolution mechanic is okay I guess but not amazing at what it does - I agree with lemon-lime and would add that it needs more advantage / disadvantage options with direct mechanical support (beyond strain and "add a blue/black dice to your next roll", the second of which is particularly lame). These are in the skill chapter of each core. There are lots of options for spending dice for each skill.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:14
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quote:cyberpunk/shadowrun and hacking I mean, when you boil it down, the true lie of cyberpunk as a genre was the idea that our garbage dystopia future would be in any way cool and not just constantly the dumbest poo poo imaginable.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:16
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ProfessorCirno posted:I mean, when you boil it down, the true lie of cyberpunk as a genre was the idea that our garbage dystopia future would be in any way cool and not just constantly the dumbest poo poo imaginable. a DocWagon campaign that involves constantly hitting people up to donate to medical GoFundMe pages
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Jul 19, 2018 02:18
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paradoxGentleman posted:I kinda feel like in a game of FAE you have to put your foot down and go "No, you can't use Furtive to attack someone who knows where you are. Pick something else." sometimes. And I don't know, that seems fine to me? Like in most cases you wouldn't let someone in Blades in the Dark use Prowl to fight a constable, would you? Blades has more elegant solutions in your approach determining position and effect, which tend to disincentivize skill stretching. Like, sure, you can certainly have your Lurk attempt to Prowl out of sight (since it also covers general athleticism, as well as sneaking and ambushing with close violence) and then get the drop on the constable when they attempt to follow. Skirmish, or even Wreck, would be a helluva lot better in terms of position, but if you're alright risking getting popped in the back as you make your Desperate ploy... Or maybe you push yourself to use Devil's Footsteps, and now it's simply a Risky proposition! There's a bit more nuance than with FAE and BitD tends to have more interesting complications given the level of player control with resistance rolls.
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Jul 19, 2018 02:27
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hyphz posted:It's not wrong though. Magic screws up Shadowrun in a whole bunch of ways. By far the biggest problem is the number of things magic can do that can't be countered without magic, and since mages are only 1%(?) of the population, either anything but running against a massive corp becomes nearly trivial or the GM has to explain why whatever random bar or gang you're dealing with had the resources to allow for someone so rare showing up. I want to see a Shadowrun clone that goes full Glorantha on the problem and just gives everyone access to magic.
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Jul 19, 2018 03:00
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Lemon-Lime posted:EotE is the worst Star Wars game and one of the worst systems in general that I've ever played, with its pointless, un-thematic gear porn, pages and pages of nickel-and-dime talents, rocket tag combat, overpriced custom dice with lovely graphic design that makes them harder to read at a glance than actual dice, and the advantage/disadvantage system is on par with GM INTRUSION for garbage cargo-culted storygame mechanic. Lemon-Lime posted:I genuinely don't know how you can think the badly-designed custom symbols are easier to parse than actual dice pips/numbers, that the game having six different types of dice is good, or that asking people to buy two £15 packs of custom dice so they have enough to actually make a roll is reasonable. Sorry I thought we weren't allowed to post grognards.txt anymore? hyphz posted:And there's a lot of fiddling around with "don't let the players loot weapons from Stormtroopers and sell them, they're imperial weapons and others would not want to use them". Like seriously? What insurgency isn't grateful for captured enemy weapons, especially when ammo is not an issue? Wait why are you not looting stormtrooper guns? Like this system is all about weapon loss and destruction, constantly picking up other peoples poo poo happens constantly. kingcom fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jul 19, 2018 |
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Jul 19, 2018 03:43
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kingcom posted:Sorry I thought we weren't allowed to post grognards.txt anymore? The grognards are posting from inside the thread...
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