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Cohen is so amazing
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Jul 20, 2018 17:48
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Curious AR - all other things being the same, what do you think would be the right way to investigate Cohen and Trump's practices as opposed to seizing everything? There's probably no good answer but the right one definitely isn't "lawyers should be able to do anything for their clients in any circumstance ever" and the profession clearly can't regulate itself well (though I think that's from external forces)
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Jul 20, 2018 17:55
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ActusRhesus posted:High five, WESTPAC sailor! Palau, Hawaii, Saipan, Hong Kong, Beijing, South Korea (and looked at North Korea) and pretty much all of Japan. Trump knew cohen was recording him because everyone in trump’s circle knew cohen recorded everything all the time. There’s anecdotes about people trying to always catch him in the hall to make sure he didn’t record everything they say. And yeah lots of westpac port calls were amazing!
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Jul 20, 2018 18:10
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blarzgh posted:Since this is a thing now Thank you for posting a schedule that doesn't include a net 18+ hours of working out + working every day.
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Jul 20, 2018 18:12
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Vox Nihili posted:Thank you for posting a schedule that doesn't include a net 18+ hours of working out + working every day. To be clear, this is a losers schedule not a biglaw big dog schedule right
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Jul 20, 2018 18:15
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Vox Nihili posted:Thank you for posting a schedule that doesn't include a net 18+ hours of working out + working every day. Moving to the Arctic and having nothing to do except lift weights and work a strict 7.5h day has put me in the best shape of my life. I am strong like polar bear now. 
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Jul 20, 2018 18:19
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I guess I’d need to see the warrant. Obviously privilege doesn’t cover assistance in ongoing crimes. And I know it’s not the first time this has happened by a long shot. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
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Jul 20, 2018 18:20
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If you start to throw out A/C privilege for the people you don't like, you also throw out the reasons to keep it for the people you do. The problem isn't with the fact that it was seized, the problem is that we know what it was despite the Court not determining whether or not its privileged yet, if that is in fact the case.
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Jul 20, 2018 18:20
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Vox Nihili posted:Thank you for posting a schedule that doesn't include a net 18+ hours of working out + working every day. He's doing lots of house work and kid care, how dare you imply that isn't working
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Jul 20, 2018 18:23
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ActusRhesus posted:I guess I’d need to see the warrant. Obviously privilege doesn’t cover assistance in ongoing crimes. And I know it’s not the first time this has happened by a long shot. It just leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Yeah I agree with the larger sentiment that we need to be careful because it could be used as precedent to strip people's due process rights. I'd be a lot more concerned if it started happening to vulnerable populations even a little but I haven't seen evidence of that.
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Jul 20, 2018 18:29
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blarzgh posted:If you start to throw out A/C privilege for the people you don't like, you also throw out the reasons to keep it for the people you do. I didn't think about this nuance
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Jul 20, 2018 18:31
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blarzgh posted:If you start to throw out A/C privilege for the people you don't like, you also throw out the reasons to keep it for the people you do. In the case at bar, so little of the seized material is actually privileged to really matter. Michael Cohen didn’t actually represent anyone as an attorney except to pay off people for Trump and to launder money for Sean Hannity. Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 18:31
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blarzgh posted:If you start to throw out A/C privilege for the people you don't like, you also throw out the reasons to keep it for the people you do. That is almost certainly because Trump and Cohen are big-mouthed morons, not because the court or parties involved are blabbing. I bet you almost all my money that Cohen told a "buddy" that "I've got tons of poo poo on Trump, stuff you wouldn't believe." and that "buddy" told the news. The news then tried to confirm and wouldn't you know it, more people had been told. Replace Cohen for Trump and it's the same thing. This is an inside look at the landed aristocracy in our country. Surprise surprise, a lot of them are dumb as poo poo. There's also the possibility that Cohen or his people are intentionally leaking this stuff to scare Trump. Mr. Nice! posted:In the case at bar, so little of the seized material is actually privileged. Michael Cohen didn’t actually represent anyone as an attorney except to pay off people for Trump and to launder money for Sean Hannity. Also this. Pook Good Mook fucked around with this message at 18:37 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 18:33
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The Cohen tape being news today makes me suspect Trump still pulls his strings because it’s advantage Trump to change the headlines from Trump Is Putin’s Fluffer. So I don’t really feel this is a sympathetic ACP case and we know about it because Trump wants us to know. If the warrants justified, then I don’t see it as cause for alarm.
Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 18:46
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Discendo Vox fucked around with this message at 04:08 on Jul 13, 2021 |
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Jul 20, 2018 18:52
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Pook Good Mook posted:The perfect ending to this is Trump suing Cohen for malpractice. Yeah, this is a mob case in all but name. It’s not like public defenders are out there telling their clients to do more meth (and recording it). The other attorneys who I could see ending up in the same boat are the shittier white collar defense guys or maybe the more greedy/scammy DWI lawyers.
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Jul 20, 2018 19:51
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Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts?
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Jul 20, 2018 20:20
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I don't care if this one is justified, or if there are technicalities, or if 'it doesn't really matter' or if someone blabbed. A slow creep is still movement in the wrong direction of both legal precedent, and social tolerance. loving Patriot Act, anyone?
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Jul 20, 2018 20:26
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts? Let's start a fund to buy accounts for goons friends who go to law school
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Jul 20, 2018 20:28
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That’s a “ranking not posted” school on the US news list. So basically, good luck.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:28
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts? Tell him to move to Charleston but not go to law school there.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:31
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts? Their bar passage rate is less than 50%, their average starting salary (for the 60% (inflated) of graduates who have a job) is less than $50k, and they are trying to move their campus to a disused office park to cut down on costs. Your suspicions are correct.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:33
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blarzgh posted:I don't care if this one is justified, or if there are technicalities, or if 'it doesn't really matter' or if someone blabbed. A slow creep is still movement in the wrong direction of both legal precedent, and social tolerance. Hoshi posted:Curious AR - all other things being the same, what do you think would be the right way to investigate Cohen and Trump's practices as opposed to seizing everything? I'd ask you the same question - what would the right direction look like? Again I think it's important to contemplate this and figure out how you can advocate for it within your profession because if you don't actually deal with it external forces will
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Jul 20, 2018 20:35
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You may have seen the acronym TTT. This stands for third tier toilet aka the law schools ranked above 100 on the us news list. Charleston is not even in those ranks.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:36
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts? A hahahahahaha Tell this friend to buy $200,000 worth of lottery tickets, the expected ROI is way higher
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Jul 20, 2018 20:41
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Yorkshire Pudding posted:Hi law thread. A friend of mine just got accepted to Charleston School of Law and is planning to go. My suspicion is that this is not a good decision. Thoughts? Please send your friend this link: https://www.lstreports.com/schools/charleston/ Also, tell him to retake the LSAT. He can do better (literally anyone without diagnosable brain problems can do better than a ~150 if they do proper prep).
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Jul 20, 2018 20:44
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blarzgh posted:I don't care if this one is justified, or if there are technicalities, or if 'it doesn't really matter' or if someone blabbed. A slow creep is still movement in the wrong direction of both legal precedent, and social tolerance. This. The comment “I’d be more concerned if....” is kinda disturbing. Constitution is the constitution. We shouldn’t care more or less depending on who is getting hosed. That thinking absolutely leads to creep in abridgment of the right. Same argument I had over the OMC. Yeah. They’re terrorist shitheads. But due process still applies.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:51
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ActusRhesus posted:This. Is there any actual evidence that due process or other rights were violated? It's not like they went in without a warrant. I expect that they had to present ample evidence of Cohen's criminal/fraudulent activity to get the warrant for the raid approved (and seek evidence under the crime/fraud exception to attorney-client privilege).
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Jul 20, 2018 20:55
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ActusRhesus posted:This. How about "I'd be more concerned if there was evidence of this being applied to lawyers who actually have an attorney/client relationship, or if there was a variation from, ignorance of, or change to the pre-existing procedures for searching/seizing a lawyer's materials."
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Jul 20, 2018 20:56
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ICE violates due process rights constantly but I've never seen posts like this about it, which isn't to say anything other than you seem more vocal about slippery slopes when they will largely impact powerful people instead of minorites and that makes it ring hollow. It may have something to do with the high profile nature of these ACP issues but neither of you have spoken to how you think you can keep powerful people accountable without ever breaking ACP so I'm not sure what else makes sense than having a procedure to violate it.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:01
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Here's a day in the life of a solo family law practitioner: 7:30: Wake up. See whatever hosed up in the night. Do e-mails, hop in the shower, dress for work. 8:30: Court. Likely a prove-up. 9:00: Usually some sort of hearing. I'm in court 3 to 5 days a week. 11:30: Get back to office. Pick up phone messages, start making calls. 12:00: Usually a consultation. 1:00: Lunch. 2:00-5:30: More consultations, phone calls, drafting, emails. Hearing prep. 5:30: Gym. 7:00: Fix the poo poo that broke when I was in the gym. 7:30: Cook and eat with the wife and dog. 8:30: Games and emails. 10:30: Reading 11:30: Pass out. 4:00: Wake up with anxiety, toss and turn for an hour. I'm here 6 days a week. Sunday it's from 12-7ish.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:04
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Hoshi, if you’re going to call me a racist, have the balls to say it directly rather than resorting to whattaboutism. Maybe the ICE issue doesn’t get as much discussion because it’s less grey area? “Hey! That’s really hosed up” “yup.” “New topic or 10 more posts basically saying “our immigration policies are poo poo”?”. Also, go gently caress yourself.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:09
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ActusRhesus posted:Hoshi, if you’re going to call me a racist, have the balls to say it directly rather than resorting to whattaboutism. Maybe the ICE issue doesn’t get as much discussion because it’s less grey area? “Hey! That’s really hosed up” “yup.” “New topic or 10 more posts basically saying “our immigration policies are poo poo”?”. Also, go gently caress yourself. I didn't mean for it to be about race it was about powerful (POTUS) versus powerless and was the first thing that came to mind. Sorry.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:11
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Hoshi posted:ICE violates due process rights constantly but I've never seen posts like this about it, which isn't to say anything other than you seem more vocal about slippery slopes when they will largely impact powerful people instead of minorites and that makes it ring hollow. It may have something to do with the high profile nature of these ACP issues but neither of you have spoken to how you think you can keep powerful people accountable without ever breaking ACP so I'm not sure what else makes sense than having a procedure to violate it. It’s not breaking ACP if the lawyer is assisting with a crime. There is no ACP to break. I don’t see where the problem is unless you think a law license is a prophylactic to any warrant. There’s no slope being slid here if the warrant was obtained on the same standards as other crime-fraud exception warrants. E. I don’t do crim law. Just wondering what exactly is being lost here and how this is an overstep compared to past accepted practice. Look Sir Droids fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 21:13
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In TYOOL 2018, you're only allowed to care about the 'right things', in the 'right order.'
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Jul 20, 2018 21:13
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Hoshi posted:I didn't mean for it to be about race it was about powerful (POTUS) versus powerless and was the first thing that came to mind. Sorry. Bullshit. You said minorities. So in your mind “minority” is synonymous with “powerless”? You knew what you were saying and it’s not the first time you’ve done it. I repeat. Go gently caress yourself. Also, “minority” is considered by many to be an offensive term. Especially in regions where they are not “the minority.” If you’re going to pull holier than thou bullshit, get the rhetoric right.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:17
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Hoshi posted:ICE violates due process rights constantly but I've never seen posts like this about it, which isn't to say anything other than you seem more vocal about slippery slopes when they will largely impact powerful people instead of minorites and that makes it ring hollow. It may have something to do with the high profile nature of these ACP issues but neither of you have spoken to how you think you can keep powerful people accountable without ever breaking ACP so I'm not sure what else makes sense than having a procedure to violate it. I actually spent a bit this morning trying to figure out why the kids don't get guardian ad litems. Also why defendants don't get lawyers , I assume it's because it's only a misdemeanor and not a felony; not that it's a person vs citizen issue? Funnily enough one solution would be try to make border crossing a felony charge so that free defense lawyers were mandatory.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:17
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mastershakeman posted:I actually spent a bit this morning trying to figure out why the kids don't get guardian ad litems. Also why defendants don't get lawyers , I assume it's because it's only a misdemeanor and not a felony; not that it's a person vs citizen issue? The (legal) reason is because only actually crossing the border illegally is criminal (you are elligible for PDs even for misdemeanors. At least you are here.) illegal presence on the other hand is a civil violation. Administrative process. No right to counsel.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:24
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Non-gym day 6 am: wake up 7 am: bike to work 7:30-10am: emails 10-10:20am: coffee and poo poo posting break 10:20-11:45: being a lawyer 11:45-12:45: lunch at desk (gotta get to the microwave before the noon rush) 12:45-4: being a lawyer 4-4:30: bike home 4:30-6ish: 25mi ride 6ish to-10: loving off 10-11/12: poo poo posting while wondering why I haven't go to bed 11/12: bed Gym day is basically the same except I bike to the gym at 6:30, dpn't get to work until 830 and leave at 5pm and only do like a 15mi ride. If I'm in the field, which is. lot, this schedule changes.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:24
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Hoshi posted:I'd ask you the same question - what would the right direction look like? Again I think it's important to contemplate this and figure out how you can advocate for it within your profession because if you don't actually deal with it external forces will 1. Investigators have to internally establish clear and convincing burden of proof to justify asking for warrants for potentially ACR materials. 2. For federal investigations, a chop from higher up the chain. 3. Warrant for potential ACR materials granted only upon clear and convincing evidence. 4. Seized evidence sequestered, disclosure to investigators only after adversarial hearing before judge or special master, and appellate review if requested. And what blarzgh and AR have been saying about it, too.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:24
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