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Roth posted:If this was James Gunn is a sexual abuser then I would agree, but this is lovely jokes vs sexual and domestic abuse. I can't blame Disney for firing James Gunn over those tweets, but I sure can blame them for giving this the immediate hammer but not Depp or Lasseter. Yeah but that's not what most people are arguing. It's a lot of "if you don't fire Johnny Depp you shouldn't fire Gunn." That's stupid, Depp should obviously be canned but that he isn't should be totally irrelevant to Gunn. Having this kind of thing happen to someone people like has had a whole lot of people who should know better pull out the Fox News post crisis handbook.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:01
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Random rear end in a top hat posted:Thank you so much for saying this, the consensus elsewhere on SA seems to be "It's just South Park humor! He was being transgressive" and I'm like I read them and think that it is a joke in bad taste. I look back at jokes I used to make and what I used to find funny and am disgusted by them. The difference for me is 1. I'm probably biased because I like Gunn and dislike Posobiac 2. his apology reflects something that I have thought about my previous actions and 3. think they were just bad takes at being transgressive
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Jul 20, 2018 23:03
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I do like Gunn and respect him a lot, but I think it’s worth noting that when people say that these tweets are a decade old, that means he made them in his 40s. It’s not quite the same as a 15 year old thinking edgy stuff is cool
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Jul 20, 2018 23:05
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poly and open-minded posted:I read them and think that it is a joke in bad taste. I look back at jokes I used to make and what I used to find funny and am disgusted by them. The difference for me is 1. I'm probably biased because I like Gunn and dislike Posobiac 2. his apology reflects something that I have thought about my previous actions and 3. think they were just bad takes at being transgressive He was 44.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:06
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Ten years can be a long time in anyone's life (edit: at any time in their life.) So can four, or two.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:08
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site posted:from the rapid escalation between the arenanet firing of jessica price to james gunn gettin canned, im guessing the extreme willingness of companies to capitulate to twitter nazis means were gonna see a lot of this soon Yeah, I think making this explicitly about Gunn himself is burying the lede. The timeline goes something like this. Gunn regularly gets into scraps on Twitter because he's die-hard anti-Trump, and had a particular exchange this week where, among other things, he called Ben Shapiro a shithead. Now, a few days later, noted right-wing Twitter lack-of-personalities Mike Cernovich and Jack Probosiec (I might be misspelling that name but I don't care) pop up, having gone through around ten years of tweets from Gunn, and have put together a crazy quilt of the worst ones that make Gunn sound like he thinks child abuse is hilarious. This is all stuff that we've seen discussed before, around the time Gunn got hired to do the first Guardians movie, because Gunn is a weird dude with a twisted sense of humor who learned how to make movies at Troma. (I've seen Tromeo and Juliet. That movie is hosed up.) Gunn has, of course, since apologized for being an edgelord in the late 2000s, but now that there's a manufactured controversy, Disney immediately cans him. This isn't about something Gunn did, or can be proved to have done, aside from telling lovely jokes to a very small audience that probably mostly knew him from a porn spoof he was directing at the time. It's manufactured, tip to tail, entirely by a politically-motivated flash mob, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that some significant fraction of that mob consists of bots and/or throwaway accounts. It sends a message to all the worst people on the Internet that, if they can raise a big enough stink, and they can, and it's surprisingly easy, they can alter the pop-culture landscape as they see fit and can do so surprisingly quickly.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:09
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Big Mean Jerk posted:I can’t believe the extremely well-known company that primarily produces children’s entertainment fired James Gunn for making a bunch of really edgelord child abuse jokes
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Jul 20, 2018 23:09
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Aphrodite posted:He was 44. How old is Seth Macfarlane? Trey Parker and Matt Stone?
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Jul 20, 2018 23:13
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James gunn is a moron
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Jul 20, 2018 23:13
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Endless Mike posted:For as much as Disney might want to maintain this perception, it's a really outdated view of the company. Remember this is a company that includes in its portfolio a cruise line, theme parks that cost more than $100 per person to get into, multiple sporting events, hotels, and so on. It's also owned Miramax for quite a long time, since right before Pulp Fiction came out. Technically, Mia Wallace is a Disney princess.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:14
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Nodosaur posted:How old is Seth Macfarlane? Trey Parker and Matt Stone? How many Disney movies did they get hired for?
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Jul 20, 2018 23:16
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How about a compromise. Gunn donates his gains from the next movie to various charities for battered spouses, transgender advocacy groups, and the like while Mike Cernovich is shot out of a cannon into a brick wall? If necessary I will drop the first part
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Jul 20, 2018 23:17
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Aphrodite posted:How many Disney movies did they get hired for? Other than Disney currently buying a company that produced most of his notable work that they're very unlikely to cancel, he was in an an episode of Phineas & Ferb as an overt pastiche of himself, and he did several shows for them in the 90's as a writer and voice actor. Parker hasn't worked for Disney but has done voice work for at least one family movie.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:20
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Jiro posted:The new Joker movie with Phoenix should just be "Walk the Line" by way of a little bit of "Natural Born Killers". With Zazie in the June Carter/Harley Role. This would be dope. I am kinda weary because Todd's directing but iirc he likes dark comedies, ad libs and improv so Joaquin and Zazie riffing off each other might make for some interesting takes. I never saw War Dogs but it got mixed reviews. I mean the first Hangover movie was fun for what it is but aside from Old School his filmography doesn't impress me. I was more excited by the rumors that Scorsese was trying to produce a Boardwalk Empire-esque Joker film but obviously these things are too good to be true.  Edit: also gently caress Disney they're still giving Johnny Depp roles. James Gunn will be fine. He's a white male millionaire. He'll keep getting work. I hope they give GOTG to Taika.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:31
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Shouldn't we be gaslighting this until people get exhausted and can't afford to care anymore and things continue going on with no consequences? Just say those tweets are fake news, point out James Gunn doesn't even have a twitter, deflect with some poo poo about Obama, and then go back to business. Why can't we all operate the way the alt-right does?
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Jul 20, 2018 23:35
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Koalas March posted:This would be dope. I am kinda weary because Todd's directing but iirc he likes dark comedies, ad libs and improv so Joaquin and Zazie riffing off each other might make for some interesting takes. The first details slipping out (whether you believe them or not) about the Joker movie don't really get me very excited: https://www.cbr.com/rumor-joker-origin-movie-new-alter-ego/
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Jul 20, 2018 23:36
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Retro Futurist posted:I do like Gunn and respect him a lot, but I think it’s worth noting that when people say that these tweets are a decade old, that means he made them in his 40s. It’s not quite the same as a 15 year old thinking edgy stuff is cool sure but they were also made when he was working as a Troma director, a job that pretty much requires a transgressive outlook/behavior, and they're the child molestation equivalents of dead baby jokes - extremely tasteless and something I wouldn't fault anybody for wanting to avoid being around or associating with, but ultimately not actually harmful to anyone or particularly indicative of character - I honestly am much more skeptical of the sort of person who is clutching pearls at the notion that someone who made such a joke wouldn't be immediately shunned and who is equating tastelessness with things like actual sexual assault the thing about the tweets being decades old isn't that he was so young and tender he couldn't have possibly known better, it's that they're not actually new information about him, so the ostensibly family friendly company suddenly dropping him because some jackass feigned moral outrage for unrelated reasons is a little different than if they'd never hired him in the first place or if he'd made those comments while in their employ he's going to be fine, but Disney are being dumb assholes LGD fucked around with this message at 23:39 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 23:37
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quote:“My words of nearly a decade ago were, at the time, totally failed and unfortunate efforts to be provocative,” Gunn said in a statement. “I have regretted them for many years since — not just because they were stupid, not at all funny, wildly insensitive, and certainly not provocative like I had hoped, but also because they don’t reflect the person I am today or have been for some time.”
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Jul 20, 2018 23:43
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By 2009 I'm pretty sure he was "The guy who wrote those lovely Scooby Doo movies" more than the Troma guy.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:44
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LGD posted:sure but they were also made when he was working as a Troma director, a job that pretty much requires a transgressive outlook/behavior, and they're the child molestation equivalents of dead baby jokes - extremely tasteless and something I wouldn't fault anybody for wanting to avoid being around or associating with, but ultimately not actually harmful to anyone or particularly indicative of character - I honestly am much more skeptical of the sort of person who is clutching pearls at the notion that someone who made such a joke wouldn't be immediately shunned and who is equating tastelessness with things like actual sexual assault His tweets were new information as far as the general public is concerned, though, contrary to much of the misinformation going around about his (afaik) one previous apology. which isn’t to say that Disney wasn’t aware of them previously and is being disingenuous now, obviously
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Jul 20, 2018 23:53
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Most likely they knew and just didn't think it was a big deal at the time.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:05
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James Gunn can finally get back to that Slither sequel I've always wanted!
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Jul 21, 2018 00:05
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Wanderer posted:Yeah, I think making this explicitly about Gunn himself is burying the lede. This is it in a nutshell. This sets a very worrying precedent that rightwing nutjobs can manufacture controversy to affect major changes in the cultural and political landscape because they don't like a prominent figures politics.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:09
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Nodosaur posted:Other than Disney currently buying a company that produced most of his notable work that they're very unlikely to cancel, he was in an an episode of Phineas & Ferb as an overt pastiche of himself, and he did several shows for them in the 90's as a writer and voice actor. Seth Macfarlane doesn't really make inflammatory public statements. Anything controversial he's produced has gone through various channels of approval and oversight before it's hit the air or theatres. Check his Twitter feed he's extremely critical of the right and even the company he works for but is very polite about it.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:10
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Oh well there we go, the takeaway is not to get the far-right all riled up!
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Jul 21, 2018 00:14
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Nilbop posted:This is it in a nutshell. This sets a very worrying precedent that rightwing nutjobs can manufacture controversy to affect major changes in the cultural and political landscape because they don't like a prominent figures politics. Or people can not make lovely jokes for shock value and then not even have to brain to delete them after they get a high profile gig. Even after they've been called out for other gross poo poo they said (the blog) and deleted that at the time. I mean I like Gunn's movies and absolutely hate the reason and the people that got this thing traction, but Gunn dug his own grave here and left it sitting there for a decade just waiting to be found again.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:15
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Nobody is arguing that Gunn didn't say very stupid things. By the same token, nobody should be arguing that Gunn got fired for saying these stupid things, because that's not what happened.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:16
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Do people think James Gunn is the first person working for Disney to ever be criticized by Fox News?
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Jul 21, 2018 00:18
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Did anyone else get fired for pissing off the far right today?
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Jul 21, 2018 00:19
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He owns up to the past and is probably still proud of the stuff he used to put out into the world. I dunno if he would want to delete anything. I remember Garry Witta scrubbing his entire history of complaining about Star Wars on forums when he was hired for Rogue One. gently caress that. Life's life. Things change. Live with it.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:20
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Nilbop posted:Nobody is arguing that Gunn didn't say very stupid things. Gunn got fired because a lot of things in culture and corporate culpability and image management have changed between the last time the stupid things he said got dredged up. This wouldn't have gotten fired 10 years ago. Or probably five. But now it does because that's the age we're in. People's stupid comments in the past bite them in rear end constantly. At this point if you have a Twitter over a year or two old you probably need to clean that poo poo up right now because someday something dumb you joked about completely devoid of context might cost you. Especially if you're a public figure. It's just common sense.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:20
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Do you think Ruffalo and Evans haven't pissed them off with their politics? You better loving believed they've crawled Captain America's history trying to find a story.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:22
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X-O posted:Gunn got fired because a lot of things in culture and corporate culpability and image management have changed between the last time the stupid things he said got dredged up. This wouldn't have gotten fired 10 years ago. Or probably five. But now it does because that's the age we're in. People's stupid comments in the past bite them in rear end constantly. At this point if you have a Twitter over a year or two old you probably need to clean that poo poo up right now because someday something dumb you joked about completely devoid of context might cost you. Especially if you're a public figure. It's just common sense. What is this "that's just the age we live in" handwave? This didn't just happen; this was a coordinated campaign by a bunch of far-right polemicists who dredged up a fuckton of stupid but utterly harmless old tweets to paint a narrative that was snapped up by their fans and, more likely than not, an army of bots. Like holy smokes.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:22
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Don't forget that back when he was hired, Gunn had that famous feminist, Joss Whedon, vouch for him
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Jul 21, 2018 00:23
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Nilbop posted:Oh well there we go, the takeaway is not to get the far-right all riled up! If he did, they probably would not find jokes about rape and pedophilia in his feed or public statements. You would find them in his shows, but there they've all gone through a writer's room, network censors and approval; there's been a spreading of culpability for anything someone is offended by.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:26
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X-O posted:Or people can not make lovely jokes for shock value and then not even have to brain to delete them after they get a high profile gig. Even after they've been called out for other gross poo poo they said (the blog) and deleted that at the time. I mean I like Gunn's movies and absolutely hate the reason and the people that got this thing traction, but Gunn dug his own grave here and left it sitting there for a decade just waiting to be found again. But there are several very straightforward things Gunn could and should have done years ago to distance himself from his edgelord past, and he very stupidly chose not to do them.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:28
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X-O posted:Gunn got fired because a lot of things in culture and corporate culpability and image management have changed between the last time the stupid things he said got dredged up. This wouldn't have gotten fired 10 years ago. Or probably five. But now it does because that's the age we're in. People's stupid comments in the past bite them in rear end constantly. At this point if you have a Twitter over a year or two old you probably need to clean that poo poo up right now because someday something dumb you joked about completely devoid of context might cost you. Especially if you're a public figure. It's just common sense. Yeah, X-O, I think you're overlooking a lot here. You aren't even wrong, but this is purely about somebody who Gunn pissed off on Twitter deciding to do whatever he could to get Gunn fired. Whether or not the jokes were funny (they weren't) or indicative of his current character (they don't appear to be) or were transgressive enough to warrant near-immediate dismissal (they weren't, particularly considering other things in the company's history, such as Johnny Depp's domestic abuse charges) is a distant secondary consideration. Aphrodite posted:You better loving believed they've crawled Captain America's history trying to find a story. I can only assume Evans has made himself effectively untouchable. Every so often I see him land a whirling over-the-shoulder chaos dunk on some poor right-wing sap on Twitter and they just shut up and take it.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:28
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Nilbop posted:What is this "that's just the age we live in" handwave? This didn't just happen; this was a coordinated campaign by a bunch of far-right polemicists who dredged up a fuckton of stupid but utterly harmless old tweets to paint a narrative that was snapped up by their fans and, more likely than not, an army of bots. Yes what people say or have said matters more to corporate image and branding now more than it did a decade ago. This is a true statement. Whether you believe that's right or wrong or whatever that's the truth of it.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:30
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Corporations should implement some kind of system in which vile people are fired or screened out without having to rely on bad faith criticism from idealogues, but they won't. Gunn made his bed and was happy to lie in it until now, trying to critique this decision by way of defending him seems kind of weird to me.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:31
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X-O posted:Yes what people say or have said matters more to corporate image and branding now more than it did a decade ago. This is a true statement. Whether you believe that's right or wrong or whatever that's the truth of it. That's not the arguement I or anyone else was making.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:31
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