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Cockmaster posted:The Kona looks like it might be a worthy alternative to the Model Y, assuming someone starts putting up some 100+kW chargers in the near future. Isn't this already happening? https://www.electrifyamerica.com/locations From Ars: quote:Between now and the end of 2019, it's going to deploy 2,000 fast chargers at a total of 484 charging stations. There are still a mix of competing standards when it comes to EV charging, so Electrify America's approach is to offer them all.
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Jul 21, 2018 04:12
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Cockmaster posted:
Isn’t the Kona much smaller? I thought it was an SUV built on the i30 base. I’ve never seen a model 3 (much less a Y) but if the Y is built on the 3 base isn’t that considerably bigger. Larger than a BMW3 series?
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Jul 21, 2018 07:56
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Toxx: Tesla stock will reach or exceed $350 on the day of October 5th. I will do a leap for that week as well.
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Jul 21, 2018 10:35
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Beffer posted:Isn’t the Kona much smaller? I thought it was an SUV built on the i30 base. Yeah the Kona is tiny - it's larger than the Honda Fit my mum was cross-shopping it against earlier in the year but a full 100mm shorter than a Mazda CX-3
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Jul 21, 2018 10:36
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162 in long, I had no idea it was that small with how people talk about it.
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Jul 21, 2018 12:53
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dissss posted:Yeah the Kona is tiny - it's larger than the Honda Fit my mum was cross-shopping it against earlier in the year but a full 100mm shorter than a Mazda CX-3 So... maybe not the best choice for someone looking for the cargo space of a crossover? And most of the other electric crossovers I've heard about are coming from luxury brands. Nissan has one planned for around 2020, but it's going to be built on the Leaf chassis, so it may not end up much bigger than the Kona.
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Jul 21, 2018 13:15
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Nissan is going to be selling the Nismo tuned Leaf! https://www.motortrend.com/news/nissan-leaf-nismo-heading-japan/ "Nismo model features a custom tuning computer that promises more responsive acceleration. Still, expect to get the same 147 hp and 236 lb-ft of torque from that electric motor" "Only for sale in Japan" Oh. Come Nissan, can you please try harder! I know selling cool versions of cars only in Japan is not exclusive to EVs or Nissan, but drat it, this is a great looking car. I know there is a market for this in the US. The Leaf has so much potential, but they keep doing the same "dumb" EV things all the major auto makers always do. Give it a stupid "California hippy environmental name" check. "terrible styling" check "make slow and not very fun to drive" check "market it only to people who hate cars, rather then people who like cars" check. So here you make a version of the Leaf that bucks those trends and you don't want to sell it? WTF. I'm convinced more and more every day that traditional auto manufactures just don't want to sell EVs. Can someone (not a traditional auto maker...) please come and compete with Tesla, the $$$ is waiting.
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Jul 21, 2018 16:13
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spandexcajun posted:So here you make a version of the Leaf that bucks those trends and you don't want to sell it? WTF. Did they hire any marketing people from General Motors recently?
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Jul 21, 2018 16:51
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spandexcajun posted:I'm convinced more and more every day that traditional auto manufactures just don't want to sell EVs. Can someone (not a traditional auto maker...) please come and compete with Tesla, the $$$ is waiting.
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Jul 21, 2018 17:10
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FilthyImp posted:I feel like we've been over this, but dealerships have less incentive to sell EV because you can't capture the buyer with 4times a year Oil Changes and all the assorted maintenance that comes with it. Nevertheless, businesses exist to make money, and if there is money to be made selling electric cars, someone will sell them. It's the old supply and demand stuff. If the market is there, it will be served. As long as people want to buy them, they're not going to go away.
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Jul 21, 2018 17:49
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I think Ford disagrees, since they're killing off the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and Taurus. The market is there, but they view it as poaching from higher-profit vehicles.
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Jul 21, 2018 22:03
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Reads like it's a normal leaf with a different throttle map, and Nismo stickers and body panels. Hard Pass.
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Jul 21, 2018 22:14
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Godholio posted:I think Ford disagrees, since they're killing off the Fiesta, Focus, Fusion, and Taurus. The market is there, but they view it as poaching from higher-profit vehicles. I do think think most people agree this is not the smartest thing Ford America can do.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:02
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Well Ford America is currently making a bajillion dollars on F-series sales and they don’t have to worry about building shipping or selling anything else. Once the economy dips and/or gas prices go back up, they’ll just Americize their efficient Euro / Asian nameplates and be back in the game. Till then, they can print money to their heart’s content. I can definitely see why they’re doing it.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:06
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thesurlyspringKAA posted:Well Ford America is currently making a bajillion dollars on F-series sales and they don’t have to worry about building shipping or selling anything else. Once the economy dips and/or gas prices go back up, they’ll just Americize their efficient Euro / Asian nameplates and be back in the game. Till then, they can print money to their heart’s content. I can definitely see why they’re doing it. The issue i see is the ramp up/change over in production.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:09
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spandexcajun posted:Come Nissan, can you please try harder! I know selling cool versions of cars only in Japan is not exclusive to EVs or Nissan, but drat it, this is a great looking car. I know there is a market for this in the US. The Leaf has so much potential, but they keep doing the same "dumb" EV things all the major auto makers always do. One would think Tesla's success would make it abundantly clear that electric cars aren't just for hippies. For what it's worth, the screen in the new Prius looks like someone wanted to rip off the Model S, but wasn't comfortable with removing the buttons. Deteriorata posted:Nevertheless, businesses exist to make money, and if there is money to be made selling electric cars, someone will sell them. Usually. The problem with electric cars is that from the perspective of the auto industry, the endgame of going electric is investing billions of dollars retooling all their factories, just to make roughly the same amount of money when all is said and done. Combine that with executives who can't be bothered to look beyond next quarter's finances, and you have a strong incentive to con the public into believing that electric cars aren't yet ready for prime time.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:10
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Cockmaster posted:So... maybe not the best choice for someone looking for the cargo space of a crossover? Crossovers have never been about cargo space - you can almost always get more in the equivalent hatch or wagon. But yeah the Kona is on the small side even as a small Crossover.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:57
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wargames posted:The issue i see is the ramp up/change over in production. That and the US government has gone especially bug-gently caress insane as of recent and there’s a non-zero chance they’ll start punishing people who bring poo poo in or out of the border (or just screwing industries over for political points with an increasingly unhinged, angry and idiotic chunk of the US populace). I can see an act banning sales of foreign-manufactured vehicles being introduced by the House and a bunch of desperate politicians voting for it for points with their dumbest supporters.
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Jul 22, 2018 04:37
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I think people were talking about whether Tesla will ever release a genuinely affordable model some day. Sounds like that may still be the plan, though not anytime soon: https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1020404811307479040
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Jul 22, 2018 08:20
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Everything that happens is a step toward that, though.
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Jul 22, 2018 08:34
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Gas needs to be more expensive.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:02
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angryrobots posted:Gas needs to be more expensive.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:02
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Charles posted:Everything that happens is a step toward that, though. Exactly, making a healthy profit on non-luxury cars requires economy of scale on your side. That design firm that took apart the Model 3 estimated that they'd need to get up to 10,000 cars per week to get profitable with the $35k trim level. They're going to need a bigger tent. Cockmaster fucked around with this message at 17:58 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 17:53
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angryrobots posted:Gas needs to be more expensive. Nothing will push expensive vehicles faster than regressive economics!
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Jul 22, 2018 18:03
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Godholio posted:Nothing will push expensive vehicles faster than regressive economics! Donald Trump spotted
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Jul 22, 2018 18:26
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Godholio posted:Nothing will push expensive vehicles faster than regressive economics! Oh come now, surely you're not one of those plebes who has to have a working vehicle to keep a roof over their head!  Accelerationism is incredibly lovely unless it's being used to refer to the cult of never lifting.
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Jul 22, 2018 18:43
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El Grillo posted:I think people were talking about whether Tesla will ever release a genuinely affordable model some day. Or, at least, the manufacturing costs would have to be way different to get that Tesla Feel and still be affordable.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:23
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FilthyImp posted:I don't think people want a Spark-like Tesla. You'd be taking out all the weird EV luxury stuff (keyless entry card, intelligent wipers, autpilot) that differentiates it None of that is inherently tied to it being an EV, and won't work because they can be easily added to anything else. My grandfather had a Buick with rain sensing wipers, and he's been gone decades(s?) Play to the advantage that EVs do have. A smooth motor/acceleration, extra weight to soak up the bumps and dips in the road, a quiet environment in the cab, the ability to act as a UPS for your AC if you need it, or even just the ability to keep your car cool when you run in to a store on a hot summer day without additional wear and tare on your engine. That's how you win.
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Jul 22, 2018 19:33
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Yeah I would kill for an electric car the size & price range of my Polo. But it will take a while cus I need 300 mile range and I don't even know if we have the energy density yet to do that in a small car without making really poo poo compromises. I wonder what the cost of Tesla's model 3 motors/drivetrain is. Seems the best bit of the Tesla are those bits and the battery tech. The flashy accoutrements are just niceties (/annoyances, depending on your preference). Though it might be a legitimate point that Musk wouldn't want to put out a car of any sort that didn't feel like it was trying to push every aspect of cars forward in some way (or whatever it is that gets people to write reviews like that WSJ guy did about model 3).
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Jul 22, 2018 20:03
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Liquid Communism posted:Oh come now, surely you're not one of those plebes who has to have a working vehicle to keep a roof over their head! To be fair, the consensus among climate scientists is that if we want to avoid loving up the planet too much, we need to do whatever we can as fast as we can to get away from fossil fuels. And maybe that wouldn't be as much of a problem if our government weren't infested with irredeemable shitlords who see the lower class as vermin (and climate science as an inconvenience to their donors). El Grillo posted:Yeah I would kill for an electric car the size & price range of my Polo. But it will take a while cus I need 300 mile range and I don't even know if we have the energy density yet to do that in a small car without making really poo poo compromises. Actually, VW just invested in a startup working on solid-state lithium batteries which should, in theory, make the car you want possible. Plus the battery would last way longer, and there'd be little to no risk of it catching fire. Trouble is, there's no telling when someone will actually figure out how to mass-produce those things.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:41
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There is already little to no danger of the car catching fire. We are comparing these to cars that carry around highly flammable gasoline, right? Just like when someone asked me what happens if I try to drive off with my car plugged in. I dunno, what happens if you do it in a gas car? Oh yeah, it tears the hose breakaway and you drag the hose down the street. The electric car won't drive plugged in, btw.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:51
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They do catch fire, except usually a few days to a few weeks from being damaged.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:57
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LRADIKAL posted:There is already little to no danger of the car catching fire. We are comparing these to cars that carry around highly flammable gasoline, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=feLB1dmKcgA
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Jul 23, 2018 00:46
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Yeah, electric cars can catch on fire. Anyone have any statistics on whether they're more fire-prone than ICE cars? Because of course every single electric car fire is going to be reported on, while basically no ICE car fires ever get reported on because they're so boring. The real problem with electric car fires is that they require different firefighting techniques. You don't want to add water to a lithium battery cell.
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Jul 23, 2018 00:59
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https://twitter.com/SteveKopack/status/1021173390349078528
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Jul 23, 2018 01:10
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Going to try that with my landlord brb
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Jul 23, 2018 01:14
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WSJ posted:Tesla declined to comment on the specific memo. But it confirmed it is seeking price reductions from suppliers for projects, some of which date back to 2016, and some of which final acceptance many not yet have occurred. The company called such requests a standard part of procurement negotiations to improve its competitive advantage, especially as it ramps up Model 3 production. poo poo we do this all the time. That's kind of the whole purpose of a strategic purchasing/procurement department. I don't know how you run a big business if you aren't doing this constantly. They should be constantly harassing vendors for better deals on top of existing deals, seeking out more cost effective vendors, using that against current vendors you have contracts with, arguing that all replacement parts should be warrantied, etc.
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Jul 23, 2018 01:24
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For any biggish company, this is SOP. Read up how Walmart REALLY fucks over it's suppliers if you want to be outraged. So whats supposed to be the story here?
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Jul 23, 2018 01:31
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CAT INTERCEPTOR posted:So whats supposed to be the story here? TESLA!
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Jul 23, 2018 01:38
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yeah this is a weird non story
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Jul 23, 2018 01:41
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