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Cerebral Bore posted:Are you really so naive that you think this poo poo isn't deliberate? It is deliberate on the part of media and politicians, but I think a lot of random people (like D&D posters or whatever) just get swept up in the greater liberal "culture" and the various truisms it accepts as common sense. Glenn Greenwald is a crazy dumb-dumb because that's just common sense, and they've been shown a cherry-picked handful of tweets (or whatever) that are maybe somewhat dumb. Proportionality never enters into things, because they've already been primed to interpret any counter-argument as the desperate flailing of a leftist bro who knows he's in the wrong.
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Jul 18, 2018 21:22
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Thug Lessons posted:An Israeli Arab paraglided into Syria using a drone, joined ISIS, got captured by the SAA, escaped, and was arrested when he returned to Israel. I'll call your goofy story and raise you a terribly depressing one about the rewards of heroism. http://time.com/longform/nadia-murad-isis-refugee-omar-jabar/
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Jul 18, 2018 21:39
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coathat posted:I'll call your goofy story and raise you a terribly depressing one about the rewards of heroism. http://time.com/longform/nadia-murad-isis-refugee-omar-jabar/ Yeah I saw this earlier today, completely hosed up and definitely just the tip of the iceberg
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Jul 18, 2018 21:50
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who the gently caress cloned tucker carlson and replaced him with a cool guy https://twitter.com/sahouraxo/status/1019702368429101056
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Jul 19, 2018 05:21
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interesting he doesnt mention yemen. i guess those are good, normal war.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:31
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Darkman Fanpage posted:interesting he doesnt mention yemen. i guess those are good, normal war. Gary Johnson didn't know about Aleppo.
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Jul 19, 2018 05:53
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mila kunis posted:who the gently caress cloned tucker carlson and replaced him with a cool guy
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Jul 19, 2018 06:08
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He sides with the alt right Based Assad stuff
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Jul 19, 2018 10:55
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comedyblissoption posted:has tucker carlson always been this critical of american foreign policy? the gently caress do you think
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Jul 19, 2018 12:30
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Jul 20, 2018 02:13
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a reminder that especially with tariffs raising CPI higher and higher, war with iran and the strait of hormuz becoming a pyroscape would be the best economic news working class americans have received since the New Deal as oil spikes well past the breakeven point for shale and the USA becomes the biggest petrostate in the world within like, 2 years.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:42
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Willie Tomg posted:a reminder that especially with tariffs raising CPI higher and higher, war with iran and the strait of hormuz becoming a pyroscape would be the best economic news working class americans have received since the New Deal as oil spikes well past the breakeven point for shale and the USA becomes the biggest petrostate in the world within like, 2 years. It won't happen unless Israel wants it to. The US would need all the intel the mossad gathered about Iran's enriched uranium to ensure that Iran can't smuggle out the enriched uranium to terrorists in case the US invades. Israel would pressure the US to formally accept Israel annexing the occupied territories in exchange for all the info they have on Iran's enrichment program.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:49
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Ytlaya posted:It is deliberate on the part of media and politicians, but I think a lot of random people (like D&D posters or whatever) just get swept up in the greater liberal "culture" and the various truisms it accepts as common sense. Glenn Greenwald is a crazy dumb-dumb because that's just common sense, and they've been shown a cherry-picked handful of tweets (or whatever) that are maybe somewhat dumb. Proportionality never enters into things, because they've already been primed to interpret any counter-argument as the desperate flailing of a leftist bro who knows he's in the wrong. naming no names, a very frustrating thing with Certain PostersTM is they're clearly informed enough to have an accurate view of the situation because of the way they tactically tiptoe around certain orthogonal issues that illustrate the hilarious futility of american foreign policy (such as CIA and pentagon catspaws fighting each other just as hard as they fight Assad) and yet, apparently, are unflinching in their advocacy of the commitment of Someone Else's Kid to the venture on the infrequent occasions one can tease a declarative proscriptive statement out of them beyond "Someone Must Do SOmething"
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Jul 20, 2018 20:50
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qkkl posted:It won't happen unless Israel wants it to. The US would need all the intel the mossad gathered about Iran's enriched uranium to ensure that Iran can't smuggle out the enriched uranium to terrorists in case the US invades. Israel would pressure the US to formally accept Israel annexing the occupied territories in exchange for all the info they have on Iran's enrichment program. I somehow feel all relevant parties within the US and Israel will find it in their hearts to accede to such a campaign.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:54
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Trump starting a war after midterms, securing the base as a wartime consigliere and utterly fractally loving up the Democratic base between the natsec libs who love AIPAC money and the antiwar left is basically How He Wins. Every political, military, and economic incentive favors this.
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Jul 20, 2018 20:59
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Willie Tomg posted:naming no names, a very frustrating thing with Certain PostersTM is they're clearly informed enough to have an accurate view of the situation because of the way they tactically tiptoe around certain orthogonal issues that illustrate the hilarious futility of american foreign policy (such as CIA and pentagon catspaws fighting each other just as hard as they fight Assad) and yet, apparently, are unflinching in their advocacy of the commitment of Someone Else's Kid to the venture on the infrequent occasions one can tease a declarative proscriptive statement out of them beyond "Someone Must Do SOmething" Not me! I say abolish the CIA.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:17
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Willie Tomg posted:I somehow feel all relevant parties within the US and Israel will find it in their hearts to accede to such a campaign. north israel would get massively bombarded in a war with iran. they'd definitely want some concessions before agreeing to let the US start the war.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:24
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Willie Tomg posted:Trump starting a war after midterms, securing the base as a wartime consigliere and utterly fractally loving up the Democratic base between the natsec libs who love AIPAC money and the antiwar left is basically How He Wins. Every political, military, and economic incentive favors this. TBH I don't think Americans want another war in the Middle East over non-existent WMDs.
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Jul 20, 2018 21:30
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qkkl posted:north israel would get massively bombarded in a war with iran. they'd definitely want some concessions before agreeing to let the US start the war. hrm you know what I think donald james trump would agree to those concessions. whatever they are. i contend that it is more difficult to imagine what his administration wouldn't support, rather than what it would. Thug Lessons posted:TBH I don't think Americans want another war in the Middle East over non-existent WMDs. This is accurate. So is this: Americans don't want most of the stupid poo poo that's been done by and to us in the last 40 years, including the last two republican administrations entering power at all. And yet: Willie Tomg has issued a correction as of 21:56 on Jul 20, 2018 |
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Jul 20, 2018 21:38
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Willie Tomg posted:This is accurate. So is this: Americans don't want most of the stupid poo poo that's been done by and to us in the last 40 years, including the last two republican administrations. And yet: I think you're underestimating how unpopular it would be. I could see the US or Israel doing airstrikes on nuclear facilities but an actual ground war isn't feasible. Also, we have been just about to go to war with Iran for the past 15 years so I've learned to be skeptical.
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Jul 20, 2018 22:02
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Thug Lessons posted:I think you're underestimating how unpopular it would be. I could see the US or Israel doing airstrikes on nuclear facilities but an actual ground war isn't feasible. Also, we have been just about to go to war with Iran for the past 15 years so I've learned to be skeptical. Ground war in Iraq was unfeasible until a year before the ground war in Iraq, and things are far weirder and less rational now than they were in 2002. War with Iran was never not a macro objective, it just got forestalled for a bunch of reasons--not least of which being: Iranian support of Iraqi militias necessitating a change in American strategy in Iraq until sectarian paramilitary infighting ran the clock out on a new administration who won largely on a platform of consistent opposition to the Iraq war. There does need to be some kind of excuse! Some kind of cache in Lebanon or Yemen, some kind of grievance over some border or other, some kind of reaction to some kind of incursion into Gaza, maybe the protests in south Iraq will turn into something, who knows. Maybe the US conjures it up, or maybe its Israel. But war with North Korea ain't in the offing, so if Trump wants a second term he's got exactly one whipping boy that even the Deep State can agree with him on. I know you're smarter than to think the news media will provide a nuanced, contextual view which highlights the absurdity of such a situation.
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Jul 20, 2018 23:20
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Thug Lessons posted:TBH I don't think Americans want another war in the Middle East over non-existent WMDs. the US networks just need to start their wartime propaganda wheels to build mass public support while completely blocking out the anti-war movement I wouldn't put it past polling to just straight up lie about public war support to create a bandwagon effect and to encourage silence
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Jul 21, 2018 00:04
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Willie Tomg posted:Ground war in Iraq was unfeasible until a year before the ground war in Iraq, and things are far weirder and less rational now than they were in 2002. War with Iran was never not a macro objective, it just got forestalled for a bunch of reasons--not least of which being: Iranian support of Iraqi militias necessitating a change in American strategy in Iraq until sectarian paramilitary infighting ran the clock out on a new administration who won largely on a platform of consistent opposition to the Iraq war. The main problem is where they'd invade from. I don't think any of the countries bordering Iran would allow it, so it basically necessitates re-invading Iraq or Afghanistan to even get started. Or storming the beaches Normandy-style, which would be a fiasco. quote:I know you're smarter than to think the news media will provide a nuanced, contextual view which highlights the absurdity of such a situation. Sure, but the media is furiously anti-Trump, and they were at most mixed on even ripping up the Iran deal. They did gave fawning praise to the Syria strikes, but they had also been champing at the bit for a Libya-style intervention in Syria since the war began and the intervention was sharply limited.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:05
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comedyblissoption posted:don't worry apparently you can whip up americans into a war fervor based on a Humanitarian Intervention on short notice When Obama was contemplating intervention, you actually had a majority opposed. Surely a large part of this was due to Republicans hating anything Obama did, but I expect given that you have a similar Democratic revulsion towards Trump you'd have a similar response.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:38
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Willie Tomg posted:a reminder that especially with tariffs raising CPI higher and higher, war with iran and the strait of hormuz becoming a pyroscape would be the best economic news working class americans have received since the New Deal as oil spikes well past the breakeven point for shale and the USA becomes the biggest petrostate in the world within like, 2 years. Thank you for your progressive position of mass killing foreigners so you can destroy your environment & increase corporate profits
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Jul 21, 2018 01:23
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the american invaders will break upon the shoals of iran and the persian gulf will run red
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Jul 21, 2018 02:01
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Thug Lessons posted:When Obama was contemplating intervention, you actually had a majority opposed. Surely a large part of this was due to Republicans hating anything Obama did, but I expect given that you have a similar Democratic revulsion towards Trump you'd have a similar response. obama literally militarily overthrew the government of libya based on a casus belli just as absurd as the iraq wmds justification and handled the aftermath even worse than bush and isn't widely villified for it
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Jul 21, 2018 02:43
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obama's casus belli to invade libya was a little smarter than in iraq because obama's casus belli was non-falsifiable
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Jul 21, 2018 02:48
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gaddafi was going to murder every single civilian in libya if we didnt invade ok
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Jul 21, 2018 08:23
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steinrokkan posted:Thank you for your progressive position of mass killing foreigners so you can destroy your environment & increase corporate profits Goondolences on you contracting the "can't distinguish between normative and descriptive statements" disease.
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Jul 21, 2018 16:30
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Thug Lessons posted:When Obama was contemplating intervention, you actually had a majority opposed. Surely a large part of this was due to Republicans hating anything Obama did, but I expect given that you have a similar Democratic revulsion towards Trump you'd have a similar response. It really all comes down to a hypothetical pretext that admittedly does not, as yet, exist. If a Saudi frigate (and not just a barge loitering offshore) gets torched with an Iranian missile, or Israel is forced to take Robust Self-Defense Measures against whatever delusional bullshit then enough Democrats will do as they're told that opposition will be a formality. Americans, as a body, don't give a gently caress, but lanyards care very very deeply about the persian menace for reasons they no doubt feel are rational and sound. Even in the fractally hosed-up circular firing squad that characterizes contemporary beltway politics, this is probably the one thing an organically occurring plurality can agree on even if its psychotic and as you point out would necessarily involve changing the Iraqi government at gunpoint as step one. Again.
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Jul 21, 2018 18:32
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if you think america isn't crazy or stupid enough to whip itself up into a war against iran you've learned nothing from the last two decades
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Jul 21, 2018 18:39
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I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't think we're going to invade Iran and even if we did it'd be deeply unpopular, especially among Democrats. Not any more worried about this than the last hundred times we were supposedly on the brink of war with Iran.
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Jul 21, 2018 21:23
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America is too chickenshit to fight a war against a real rear end nationstate. What we're doing is keeping the economic warfare going until internal disputes develop.
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Jul 22, 2018 00:21
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Willie Tomg posted:It really all comes down to a hypothetical pretext that admittedly does not, as yet, exist. If a Saudi frigate (and not just a barge loitering offshore) gets torched with an Iranian missile, or Israel is forced to take Robust Self-Defense Measures against whatever delusional bullshit then enough Democrats will do as they're told that opposition will be a formality. Americans, as a body, don't give a gently caress, but lanyards care very very deeply about the persian menace for reasons they no doubt feel are rational and sound. Yeah, I wonder if America will even get the Isfahan before casualties reach over three thousand.
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Jul 22, 2018 01:12
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Crowsbeak posted:Yeah, I wonder if America will even get the Isfahan before casualties reach over three thousand. casualties are good, it will make the american public even more determined to win the war, lest those first troops die in vain.
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Jul 22, 2018 01:23
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qkkl posted:casualties are good, it will make the american public even more determined to win the war, lest those first troops die in vain. HA HA HA HA HA HA! Where were you when people were freaking out when the two thousandth American was killed in Iraq?
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Jul 22, 2018 01:32
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https://twitter.com/jreichelt/status/1020781171167248385
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Jul 22, 2018 04:33
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Frijolero posted:America is too chickenshit to fight a war against a real rear end nationstate. judging from posts by certain unnamed d&d shills that seems to be the current strategy
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Jul 22, 2018 06:35
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mila kunis posted:judging from posts by certain unnamed d&d shills that seems to be the current strategy Yeah, it seems like it is also spreading to Iraq (basically classic containment tactics). Anyway, we aren't going invade Iran...probably because the Russians and Chinese can easily sell them a bunch of toys that would make it a real fight. Liberals hate Glen Greenwald because they're nationalists, love war, and get a hard-on for hegemony. That is it. They don't give a poo poo about gas attacks or dead civilians beyond what they can use them for politically. The Middle East thread is practically a primary source on the subject. Liberals just want the economic status quo and America's dominance to continue forever, everything else is tactical window-dressing. It is why they hate Trump so much because he is accelerating the collapse of the US' stranglehold on humanity, but in all honesty, it was already crumbling under Obama. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 14:30 on Jul 22, 2018 |
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Jul 22, 2018 14:26
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