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Elukka posted:It's pretty realistic that social problems don't magically go away once the colonizer leaves, especially because they've had no room to evolve as a society on account of the violent repression. It's also realistic that the victims aren't all saints and have their own oppressors among them that will do their best to ruin everything. It's kinda surprisingly insightful for a Star Trek. I want to root for Bajor. However, their religious fundamentalism makes it hard. They're usually portrayed as massive dicks, with few exceptions. Kira gets better, but she is a huge doucher for most of the early seasons. Kai Opaka was pretty decent, but gets taken out pretty quickly as well. Leeta is funny, but it's pretty obvious she was included as eye-candy (although I love her and that she ends up with Rom).
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Jul 22, 2018 09:28
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Elukka posted:It's pretty realistic that social problems don't magically go away once the colonizer leaves, especially because they've had no room to evolve as a society on account of the violent repression. It's also realistic that the victims aren't all saints and have their own oppressors among them that will do their best to ruin everything. It's kinda surprisingly insightful for a Star Trek. Build a subspace graviton field and make Bajor pay for it
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Jul 22, 2018 09:29
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Moridin920 posted:Build a self replicating minefield and make Bajor pay for it
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Jul 22, 2018 09:33
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Peachfart posted:STD Season 2 trailer is out, and, uh, Wow I hate everything about this
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Jul 22, 2018 10:43
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Elukka posted:It's pretty realistic that social problems don't magically go away once the colonizer leaves, especially because they've had no room to evolve as a society on account of the violent repression. It's also realistic that the victims aren't all saints and have their own oppressors among them that will do their best to ruin everything. It's kinda surprisingly insightful for a Star Trek. It's not that these problems "don't go away", these were problems that preceded the occupation and were prime for restoration once the occupation left. Kira makes a point that Bajor had a peaceful society for a shitzillion years or whatever, and they used to star surf and all that stuff, it's not that their caste system was the result of being fresh out of the caves. It's Extremely Federation to assume that society "evolves" in some way that turns inherently toward 90s American liberal values.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:19
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I mean, Trek never really touched on this in my memory because it would have been contrary to Gene's Vision, but there's every possibility that some of the other races who we think of as dickholes were once more precious and happy and then for various cultural reasons became more aggressive, expansionist, etc. Maybe the Breen were once peaceloving star hippies and then they invented breen instagram and now they're all jerks
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Jul 22, 2018 13:22
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Pick posted:I mean, Trek never really touched on this in my memory because it would have been contrary to Gene's Vision, but there's every possibility that some of the other races who we think of as dickholes were once more precious and happy and then for various cultural reasons became more aggressive, expansionist, etc. Maybe the Breen were once peaceloving star hippies and then they invented breen instagram and now they're all jerks IIRC in a book or something that's literally the Cardassians' backstory, they used to have a peaceful spiritual culture more like Bajor then a huge famine led to a military junta and then the unstable authoritarian government they start the series with. Also, the Founders.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:33
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Ghost Leviathan posted:IIRC in a book or something that's literally the Cardassians' backstory, they used to have a peaceful spiritual culture more like Bajor then a huge famine led to a military junta and then the unstable authoritarian government they start the series with. That's sort of implied by "Second Skin" and the resistance guy, Gamor? Famine is always a super weird go-to in the Star Trek universe because it's like "lightspeed yes, hydroponics ?????, high-yield corn ???????" like yes, we're all impressed you had interstellar travel before us, but you know what we had? corn.
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Jul 22, 2018 13:56
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Bogus Adventure posted:Kai Opaka was pretty decent, She's Mother Theresa. She has a front that is nice and gentle, but is a sadistic powermonger behind it. Otherwise she wouldn't be Kai with 100% of all other Bajorans being dicks. Opaka is just Winn but just not showing shes obviously devious. Part of me wants to hope that she was never heard of again because the people of Bajor silently collectively went 'THANK gently caress SHES GONE'
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Jul 22, 2018 14:16
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opaka went to live forever planet, which ostensibly you could still contact people on?? but nah
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Jul 22, 2018 14:42
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Pick posted:opaka went to live forever planet, which ostensibly you could still contact people on?? but nah She accepted being exiled to the planet of immortal psychopaths pretty easily too. Constantly get murdered forever? Eh, better than Bajor.
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Jul 22, 2018 15:19
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I wanted to root for Bajor as well since they were supposed to be the good guys, but I grew up in a very religious community and watching them be obstinate fundamentalists fixed me of much pity for them. As an adult watching the show I can recognize that as a people they're meant to be faithful, complex, and rebuilding their world and culture after being occupied with the challenges that faces, but as a kid/teenager watching it I found them rear end-backwards but well meaning like the real people I grew up around and I didn't want religious nutters mudding up the sci fi I liked to watch. I had always thought that the Bajorans and Cardassians were meant as a sci fi analogue to the Bosnian and Serbian conflict that was ongoing and present in the cultural landscape around the time that the series started. Clearly it took on more than that. Did they ever state what they were drawing from?
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Jul 22, 2018 16:26
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The new trailer for the next season of star trek really excites me and I can't wait to start watching it. The trailer for the new season of discovery isn't exciting though.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:08
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Pick posted:That's sort of implied by "Second Skin" and the resistance guy, Gamor? Famine in a developed civilisation is pretty much 100% lovely governing. Though of course there could be outside space problems. Maybe they pissed off Q and he turned all the space corn into rocks or something. frogge posted:I had always thought that the Bajorans and Cardassians were meant as a sci fi analogue to the Bosnian and Serbian conflict that was ongoing and present in the cultural landscape around the time that the series started. Clearly it took on more than that. Did they ever state what they were drawing from? drat near everything; the Ireland, Palestine, 'comfort women' from the Japanese occupation of Korea (and elsewhere), possibly incidentally Tibet as mentioned... touches of oppressed people throughout history.
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Jul 22, 2018 17:54
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Jul 22, 2018 18:03
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Neddy Seagoon posted:The best part of Damar is he was originally just meant to be a one-episode Console Guy character, but apparently one of the writers recognized the actor from some other work he'd done.. Casey Biggs was actually specifically cast due to his work as Davey Crockett in a film version of The Alamo. His arc is loosely modeled on the cultural myth of Crockett. Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5eaU1Vh_3Y
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Jul 22, 2018 19:18
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Random thought, Martok's marriage makes a lot of sense after learning his backstory, regardless of whether it was intentional; that he's a common warrior who ended up promoted all the way to General, even after being passed over originally for being common-born, and his wife is implied to be of ancient noble lineage. (if originating from a concubine) In other words, he married way up, and his wife is used to getting her way. That sort of thing was far from uncommon in real life history, too. Marrying Sirella legitimized Martok in the upper levels of Klingon society so they'd respect him socially as a noble (by marriage) on top of respecting him as a celebrated general and warrior. Martok being Martok, he probably left all the House of Martok and Klingon high society stuff to his wife while he stayed a man of humbler tastes. No wonder Martok's son was a shithead who only showed up in one episode. Kid was probably a certified mama's boy and a disappointment to his father.
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Jul 22, 2018 20:05
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Jul 22, 2018 20:50
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Pick posted:I mean, Trek never really touched on this in my memory because it would have been contrary to Gene's Vision, but there's every possibility that some of the other races who we think of as dickholes were once more precious and happy and then for various cultural reasons became more aggressive, expansionist, etc. Maybe the Breen were once peaceloving star hippies and then they invented breen instagram and now they're all jerks Blah blah cave drawings, naw bro, we realize now those were just lovely maps. Blah blah stories and religion, naw bro allegories for avoiding disease,; don't eat pork because of hookworm, cut off foreskins because you don't wash and it leads to infection. These were utilitarian communication tools not art or stories for fun. Luxuries like art don't come about until you have an excess of resources, and then comes along fear of not having enough, greed, and resource war which is why there aren't typically flourishing societies of solely artists. Kava Roots would have to be SOO abundant and the best food, the best fuel, and the best building supply on the entire planet for Bajor to claim they were an artist Utopia. Also I think "used to be nice but then became dicks" is the entire Romulan backstory. Aren't they like, yin/yang logic/passion Vulcan substitutes.
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Jul 22, 2018 21:49
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gimme the GOD drat candy posted:i hated s1 so much that i have no interest in ever watching s2. Can't wait to hear you bitch about it for the next year.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:05
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Zesty posted:Can't wait to hear you bitch about it for the next year. you should go to the mirror universe, where they think discovery was good.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:11
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revolther posted:The historical explanation for this has always been scarcity or abundance. Art typically doesn't manifest in societies until there is an abundance of food and a loose social safety net, because otherwise the artists would be hunters, gatherers, or starvers. Come to think of it, we don't know average Bajoran or Cardassian lifespans. The 50 year occupation could have been 3 to 5 generations long for the bajorans and way less to the cardassians.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:29
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revelation: Kai Winn is like 26
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Jul 22, 2018 22:31
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I enjoyed rewatching Armen Shimerman's debut in S1 of TNG. He had the wherewithal to avoid the "i'm a creepy alien" jazz hands the other two Ferengis were getting carried away with.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:00
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I bet Armen is a pretty cool dude in real life and would be my friend if fate would just allow it
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Jul 22, 2018 23:02
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mods changed my name posted:I bet Armen is a pretty cool dude in real life and would be my friend if fate would just allow it same
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Jul 22, 2018 23:03
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oh yeah and in Homecoming kira points out that without opaka there's fighting factions and riots. lol bajor.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:11
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Pick posted:oh yeah and in Homecoming kira points out that without opaka there's fighting factions and riots. lol bajor. So a regular day on Bajor then.
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Jul 22, 2018 23:27
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Jul 22, 2018 23:40
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EvilTaytoMan posted:So a regular day on Bajor then. "I've made a career out of knowing when to run, and this Provisional Government is far too provisional for my liking. And when governments fall, people like me are lined up and shot." I think that's why goons dislike the Bajorans so much. The Bajorans are more human than the actual humans in Trek.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:31
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Cythereal posted:"I've made a career out of knowing when to run, and this Provisional Government is far too provisional for my liking. And when governments fall, people like me are lined up and shot." Yeah man, that's the joke. We are (were?) so close to acting like a Federation candidate civilization, if we only stopped loving everything up all the time through pigheaded smallmindedness, and the crew of Deep Space Nine are here to give us a little leg up on getting there.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:46
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 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cXp-gzz_aoY It's real: https://www.mint.ca/store/coins/emstar-trektrade-deep-space-nineem---pure-silver-coloured-coin---mintage-4500-2018-prod3220073 So are lots of others, apparently: https://www.mint.ca/store/buy/star-trek_coins-cat1290023
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Jul 23, 2018 03:08
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I have a book of stamps with the DS9 cast of characters' faces and names on them from Canada Post that I bought last year in my closet somewhere. Canada knows the best Star Trek (though there were other books with all the other series' (not Enterprise) casts on them, too). edit: Also, I totally just went through to the mint page, thinking 'Oh man, I could totally justify dropping the forty, fifty bucks on this thing that-' $149.99 
Aoi fucked around with this message at 03:53 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 03:48
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revolther posted:The historical explanation for this has always been scarcity or abundance. Art typically doesn't manifest in societies until there is an abundance of food and a loose social safety net, because otherwise the artists would be hunters, gatherers, or starvers. Actually the opposite; the Vulcans used to be super violent emotion freaks until Space Buddha taught them to chill out, then died in a huge nuclear war, while Space Tyler Durden didn't want to chill out and led his followers offworld to found Romulus (and Remus) while the Vulcans rebuilt their society around logic and reason and not freaking out all the time if you can possibly help it.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:32
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Ugh. Today at comic con I saw prints of; One of the entire TNG cast, one ofthe entire OG cast, one of the entire DS9 cast One with all the captains, one will all the second officers, one will all the medical officers, and one of all the chief engineers All of them were signed by the respective actors And as much as I wanted the TNG one with whoopis signature too, $15k is right the gently caress outta my budget I aaaalmost got the DS9 one but still idk about $2K Moridin920 fucked around with this message at 05:49 on Jul 23, 2018 |
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Jul 23, 2018 05:47
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I categorically refuse to center my life around any media, no matter how much I like it or how nostalgic I am for it, to the point of dropping the down payment of a nice car for a poster, IDGAF who signed it.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:57
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Powered Descent posted:
This is good on so many levels.
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Jul 23, 2018 05:59
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rndmnmbr posted:I categorically refuse to center my life around any media, no matter how much I like it or how nostalgic I am for it, to the point of dropping the down payment of a nice car for a poster, IDGAF who signed it. I love production work for shows but yeah you reaaaally have to like something to want a chunk of it like that. Especially when you get get generic old Star Trek merchandise for next to nothing. Well, if they ever bothered making it, which is a real crap shoot for DS9 or Voyager.
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Jul 23, 2018 06:02
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People who spend a lot of money on tv memorabilia are either insanely rich or just insane.
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Jul 23, 2018 06:19
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"or"?
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Jul 23, 2018 06:21
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