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Linear Zoetrope posted:7) Give me a pony I'm sure there's a mod for that.
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Jul 23, 2018 07:46
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| # ? May 25, 2024 08:24 |
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Dr. Video Games 0031 posted:6) Show institution spread speed and and estimated completion time in the province tooltip when in institution map mode so I can tell at a glance how quickly an institution will spread. Also something like "without natural growth you would need to develop x times to produce this institution in this province"
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Jul 23, 2018 08:14
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Yes! Maybe even, it would cost us about x amount of monarch points too, assuming you're developing all three types evenly.Linear Zoetrope posted:7) Give me a pony
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Jul 23, 2018 08:57
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Tales from Multiplayer: Chapter 1 credit to Mountaineer from the discord
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Jul 23, 2018 20:57
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New Dev Diary, balance changes Seriously other than the nerf to Religious ideas and TCs now being even more comically broken than before they're good changes. But since TCs were my biggest concern about game balance already it's slightly depressing that they seem to be getting multiple buffs from their already overpowered state.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:00
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Not sure how I feel about formables forming formables silliness being cut out. Yeah it is silly, but does it really have negative repercussions on anyone’s experience if I actually go through all the trouble to turn Ottomans into Yuan?
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Jul 24, 2018 12:09
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quote:Your maximum number of States is now far more important: If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. This corruption hit is halved in Easy mode, and entirely absent in Very Easy. Additionally sending Missionaries and cultural conversion are not possible in Territories. You must make them a state to do these.  This seems extremely harsh if you're trying to blob. Or, god forbid, WC.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:16
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skasion posted:Not sure how I feel about formables forming formables silliness being cut out. Yeah it is silly, but does it really have negative repercussions on anyone’s experience if I actually go through all the trouble to turn Ottomans into Yuan? I'm a "always play optimally" kind of person and the existince of these sorts of strategies makes me less able to enjoy the game because I always have this voice in my head telling me that I should be culture shifting so I can form Mughals or whatever. It's good to have some restrictions on this. Elman posted:
I think that they're big on getting you to have larger vassals now.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:17
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RabidWeasel posted:I think that they're big on getting you to have larger vassals now. Does this accomplish that? Trade Companies are exempt, so if you're in Asia you're hosed, while if you're in Europe it's really not that big of a deal.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:23
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Elman posted:
Yes it is, and I love it Now if the state limit wasn't so drat high this might actually have some teeth...
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Jul 24, 2018 12:42
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Elman posted:Does this accomplish that? Trade Companies are exempt, so if you're in Asia you're hosed, while if you're in Europe it's really not that big of a deal. Well yeah ignoring the fact that TCs are special magical snowflake provinces that harness the unique power of the continent of Europe in order to generate huge amounts of income at virtually no cost.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:47
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RabidWeasel posted:I think that they're big on getting you to have larger vassals now. Their methodology is all stick and no carrot. It would be nice if they made vassals a little more appealing instead. With vassals still taking up your diplomatic relations slots and generally not pulling their weight, they've created a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario. Instead of making non-vassal play much more punishing, they should encourage vassal play in other ways. Maybe have certain government systems/reforms give "free" vassals or something. Like, a give a monarchy with heavy feudalism a free vassal or two before they take up relations slots but reduced absolutism or something.
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Jul 24, 2018 12:52
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Considering the vast number of utter poo poo estates that barely break twenty dev or even a two digit number. 
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Jul 24, 2018 12:56
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They give more force limits now! And yeah the existence of total garbage map areas with like 20 dev does gently caress with this system a lot. Those regions are going to be prime candidates for getting handed over to a vassal I guess?
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Jul 24, 2018 12:57
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RabidWeasel posted:They give more force limits now! That's the point. Trade companies are only ignored because to use them as trade company provinces you have to not state them so either you would be maxing out really fast on your max allowed territories or you would just be stating everything anyway since they are high development provinces. The difference becomes that you get slapped with the -100% tax and manpower modifiers at the very least. Groogy fucked around with this message at 13:06 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 13:04
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having to state land to convert it feels weird and wrong also the "end game tags" thing seems to be entirely about preventing fun
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Jul 24, 2018 13:05
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You can still convert in subject land. If you have 2 vassals you have trippled the amount of states and territories you can have. It also inadvertently buffs the Hungarian idea.
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Jul 24, 2018 13:07
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sounds like +dip relations is gonna be the name of the game going forwards
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Jul 24, 2018 13:13
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I guess trade companies are getting sorta nerfed a bit by not being able to convert in territories? You'll have to state the province now if you want to convert it before handing it off to a TC, which is a lot of adm down the drain. Which is good, since it's silly how easy the -100% missionary strength is to circumvent. Also I played a Portugal game recently, and TCs definitely felt too strong. e: Although, hilariously enough, the -100% sailors modifier of all things gave me some trouble lategame. But that could have been fixed with buildings if I had seen it coming, which I definitely didn't. Staltran fucked around with this message at 13:23 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 13:19
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the missionary thing sucks but blobbing gets you mad cash and i imagine paying down corruption will just be a small dent in that
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Jul 24, 2018 14:33
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Nice anti-fun patch they've got going there. Bonus points for using the lovely corruption mechanic to prevent game play.
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Jul 24, 2018 14:42
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Considering how much WC type people complain about endless money in the late game this seems like exactly the kind of change that should suit them. I agree that taking out the tag switching seems kinda needless though. In MP if someone can get to the point of doing big switches like that they as well as deserve the bonus anyway because everyone else has already hosed up at that point. And in singleplayer, why not?
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Jul 24, 2018 14:50
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Groogy posted:Trade companies are only ignored because to use them as trade company provinces you have to not state them so either you would be maxing out really fast on your max allowed territories or you would just be stating everything anyway since they are high development provinces. The difference becomes that you get slapped with the -100% tax and manpower modifiers at the very least. TC provinces don't count for the corruption penalty though: quote:If you hold more territories than your state limit, you will face a yearly corruption penalty, currently +0.02 per territory (not per province). For example, if you have a State Limit of 15, you can have up to 15 States AND up to 15 Territories without penalty. Overseas Colonial Regions and Trade Charter Companies are exempt from this calculation. So you can have every single TC province owned with no penalty regardless of your state limit or the number of territories you have. As long as you're smart enough to have your capital in ~glorious land of magical administrative powers Europe~ TCs are probably the most inherently broken single mechanic in the game for multiple reasons and you keep making them worse.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:54
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RabidWeasel posted:TC provinces don't count for the corruption penalty though: Yes? That's literally what I said, the guy asked why we made them not count for it. (e: I just realized the post somehow incorrectly quoted you, e2: I donno anymore probably was right. Been answering so many questions everywhere today) Or do you think that if you don't make them a TC you will avoid the penalty? No you won't you need to put every single province you have in the area to the TC or you get slapped. RabidWeasel posted:most inherently broken single mechanic in the game Didn't you literally say that a few pages ago about another feature? An actually inherently broken feature is Manchu Banners. Before we mentioned TC's people were asking for a single reason to use TC's, now everyone is saying they were broken since release. smdh. Damned if you do damned if you don't. Either way I disagree that they are inherently broken. I would love to hear one of your many reasons why they are broken previously though so they can be addressed. Groogy fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 16:01
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Groogy posted:I would love to hear one of your many reasons why they are broken previously though so they can be addressed. My two cents on the subject is that I think they are, perhaps, designed suboptimally? A lot of people really hate that if your capital is in Asia, no matter where in Asia that your capital is, you cannot do TCs anywhere in Asia. Capital in Kamchatka? No TCs anywhere in Asia. Capital in Mecca? No TCs anywhere in Asia. I think they would work a lot better if you could not do them in your home trade region but otherwise they are fair game. They may have some other minor quibbles but that one thing is a big pain in the rear end I particularly dislike.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:16
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That would lead to Indians setting up TCs in all the Indian nodes where they have any territorial cores though, it could get messy real quick. Maybe if it was banned to set up TCs in your own node or any node directly connected to it?
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Jul 24, 2018 16:21
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AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I wouldnt say that they are "broken" in the way you would define broken. I also do not know what RabidWeasel's justification is. Yeah no I agree that is boring and bad but it's an easy way to make sure to prevent other broken stuff. But yeah I am pretty sure when people are throwing around the word broken they mean more as in "infinite amount of money" sort of broken since it is usually done in conjunction with not counting trade company areas for corruption.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:24
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skasion posted:That would lead to Indians setting up TCs in all the Indian nodes where they have any territorial cores though, it could get messy real quick. Maybe if it was banned to set up TCs in your own node or any node directly connected to it? Yeah but this still won't help you if you're somewhere too far upstream, Indonesia for example. You're not gonna be able to steer any of that TC money back home because the entire trade system is (literally) eurocentric. I'm not sure there's a good way to fix that without revamping the entire trade system, which probably won't happen.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:29
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Groogy posted:I would love to hear one of your many reasons why they are broken previously though so they can be addressed. It's not complicated, they give you a rediculous amount of money and revolt less then normal territories in exchange for losing a miminal amount of manpower and sailors from them, and their value is so disproportionate that the gold standard for "how do I WC" is "conquer India, make it all TCs so you have infinite money, then explode after absolutism kicks in". The fact that they need to have the bizarre not-same-continent-as-capital restriction is proof that they're broken, otherwise it would be perfectly acceptable for, say Persia, to make TCs in India and this wouldn't give them a huge, undesirable power spike (of course every Persia human player will move capital to Dagestan ASAP anyway so it doesn't matter). Instead of having 25% of manpower, tax, trade and production you get 0% of the first two and ~ 150-200% of the latter two when you take into account increased production, bonus trade power, and removal of wrong culture / religion modifiers, and you even get a free merchant for each trade node so it doesn't even impact your ability to collect or divert trade in your home nodes in any way. Now on top of this they also are explicitly excluded from a new balancing mechanic, so there's zero penalty to having all the TC provinces you can conquer, and they also have new buildings which allow you to gain unique benefits in TC provinces which you can't get anywhere else. I'm using 'broken' in the sense that the break the balance of the game, not that they don't function properly. And yeah TCs were weak back when they still had 75% autonomy and the increased goods produced only affected 'native' provinces and not the TC provinces themselves. Then they got two gargantuan buffs at the same time. Now they're getting more buffs. I just can't get behind any game mechanic which makes it objectively the right thing to do for a huge Asian power to move their capital to the rear end end of Europe because this unlocks the almighty ability to somehow administer your provinces in a way that lets you extract a vast amount of additional value from them at no cost and at very little opportunity cost. It doesn't make sense from any perspective. This mechanic only exists to make a few parts of the world more attractive targets for European conquest; it's a way of correcting deficiencies in the general trade system and to allow historical 'trade concessions' to exist. But it's set up so it can be used in a way which bears no resemblance to this, and because it's so beneficial, encourages the player to do gamey poo poo in order to be able to take advantage of it. Elman posted:Yeah but this still won't help you if you're somewhere too far upstream, Indonesia for example. You're not gonna be able to steer any of that TC money back home because the entire trade system is (literally) eurocentric. Actually TCs are so incredibly good at generating trade power and value that you can just collect in each individual node and it's fine, you don't need to steer back to your home node (though it's obviously better if you can without leaking). RabidWeasel fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 16:36
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I am totally on board with the corruption penalty for blobbing too much. The inability to convert territories seems awful, though. That's disastrous for nations like Russia that typically benefit from using the Religious CB to expand into heathen land. Seems like it's going to make Religious Ideas nearly useless, and Humanist Ideas nearly mandatory.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:41
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Hi it’s me, the simulationist fun-hater who loves the tag-switching change
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Jul 24, 2018 16:55
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Soup du Jour posted:Hi it’s me, the simulationist fun-hater who loves the tag-switching change  sup fun hater buddy!
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Jul 24, 2018 17:05
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RabidWeasel posted:It's not complicated, they give you a rediculous amount of money and revolt less then normal territories in exchange for losing a miminal amount of manpower and sailors from them Minimal? It reduces it with 100%, you can get up to getting something by building buildings but I wouldn't say minimal. What money though as well the same applies there. Only thing unaffected is production. The goods produced bonus has pretty much disappeared since the institutions were introduced and protectorates removed. RabidWeasel posted:is "conquer India, make it all TCs so you have infinite money, then explode after absolutism kicks in" RabidWeasel posted:150-200% of the latter two when you take into account increased production, bonus trade power That's false, TCs don't touch production at all. RabidWeasel posted:
Good you know the numbers things are balanced around then. I don't want to be a dick but it sure does sound like your reiterating someone's else points. Also posting from phone so sorry for any mistakes in advance E: Also extra, money increase from TC have only ever affected the local natives if they are primitive enough. You as European only got trade power, nothing else. The huge money increase you saw, was because you now had a piece of the pie in India or could more easily get the trade home. The balance of the money available is not affected by TCs Groogy fucked around with this message at 17:13 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 17:07
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I think TC would work better as a sort of "estate" that you can plop down into provinces that are not yours as long as the receiving province is owned by a nation that is behind in tech compared to you, less than say 25% of that nation's land is already in a TC (or 50% of the total provinces in the trade node?), and the province is not occupied by another country's TC (or some other conditions - I'm bad at this, it's just brainstorming). And the TC bonuses and maluses would be like estate modifiers, changing based on influence/loyalty of the TC, you could have interactions to buff / hamper them, they would give more local trade power in their area if happy or cause revolts/steal money if unhappy, have events related to their maintenance and so on. this would prevent just straight up conquering the hell out of every coastal province from the Ivory Coast to New Zealand, late game it looks like half the world is directly controlled by either the French, English or Spanish. While these powers had of course colonial possessions spanning the whole world historically, I kind of doubt they would be the "direct" kind of province ownership you see in EU4. this would also be pretty game-changing and is probably best left for a significant trade overhaul/EU5 TorakFade fucked around with this message at 17:19 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 17:13
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Tahirovic posted:Nice anti-fun patch they've got going there. Bonus points for using the lovely corruption mechanic to prevent game play. Yes, this is retarded. Who seriously plays EU4 to play tall? You play to paint the map your color unless you're going for some goofy achievement.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:17
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Unless you going for WC or you get 80 territories in the 1500, you are not even going to notice it.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:20
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I almost wonder whether there shouldn’t be a kind of trade post concept for colonial nations, where it starts out small but then there is the option at some point to start seriously disrupting the host country and assuming direct control.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:35
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Both the British and Dutch EICs were kind of rogue actors in the period weren’t they? It would be neat if they were a bit out of direct control yeah.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:39
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Yeah Trade Companies could be way cooler. I only have 24h on a day though. Eu5 maybe we can take lessons learned and make a lot more interesting content.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:42
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| # ? May 25, 2024 08:24 |
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 EU5 confirmed
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