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Samuel Clemens posted:Basically, but with less genocide (except maybe against the Khans?). the Khans definitely deserve it tho 
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Jul 24, 2018 14:13
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CobiWann posted:So, the Gunners...descendants of the brainwashed soldier kids from Vault 75? That would be a lot more interesting than the current canon, which is "Raiders but with better clothes and weapons".
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Jul 24, 2018 14:17
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frajaq posted:the Khans definitely deserve it tho Bitter Root agrees.
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Jul 24, 2018 14:33
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Internet Wizard posted:Except there’s not really any reason to believe House actually cares about space travel instead of just bringing it up while he’s desperately trying to convince you not to kill him. He’s shown time and time again that he only cares about what personally benefits him, and there’s no way that enabling people to leave the planet he’s entombed on benefits him at all. It does if they pay him to do it. But I agree that sending seed ships to colonise the stars was more a blue-sky example of the possibilities than something he's actually planning. Which, much as I enjoy listening to House speak, is probably for the best. I don't want the capitalist pioneering space travel, I want to leave it to the communist workers' state he will accidentally create
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Jul 24, 2018 14:36
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2house2fly posted:It does if they pay him to do it. But I agree that sending seed ships to colonise the stars was more a blue-sky example of the possibilities than something he's actually planning. Which, much as I enjoy listening to House speak, is probably for the best. I don't want the capitalist pioneering space travel, I want to leave it to the communist workers' state he will accidentally create The Soviet Union got vaporized in the War same as everybody else.
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Jul 24, 2018 14:52
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chitoryu12 posted:That would be a lot more interesting than the current canon, which is "Raiders but with better clothes and weapons". Which is a real bummer - a fully fleshed out Gunner faction would have been a worthy non-Institute adversary. Hell, they're sitting in the GNR building, why not give them their own radio station?
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Jul 24, 2018 15:25
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CobiWann posted:Which is a real bummer - a fully fleshed out Gunner faction would have been a worthy non-Institute adversary. Hell, they're sitting in the GNR building, why not give them their own radio station? Also we even get to see Gunners in a non-hostile context when they're intimidating MacCready, which leads into a conversation about how they're mercs and are pissed at MacCready for quitting and going solo. It bears utterly no resemblance to how they act in the rest of the wasteland, which is shooting anything and everything on sight.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:28
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CobiWann posted:So, the Gunners...descendants of the brainwashed soldier kids from Vault 75? nah just high end mercs that *gestures vaguely off camera* are mysteriously paid by some unknown party that's never disclosed so basically talon company from fo3
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Jul 24, 2018 15:30
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I don't think House is lying about space travel (I don't think House actually lies to you at any point, nor does the game imply it, he's pretty straightforward about even his most reprehensible ideas) but I do question the efficacy of space travel. Like, maybe before the war when resources were still in numerous supply as was transportation of goods, but once the bombs fell its kinda too late to escape disaster; it already happened. Old world thinking, I guess.UED Special Ops posted:Yeah, probably. The time crunch on the game probably led to a fair amount of ending reel stuff being cut or shorted up. Thinking about it, Westside in particular seems an odd omission, considering the major impact you can have on that settlement through a fair number of quests, especially the whole water situation they were in the middle of. Also the Three Families, which is especially glaring considering the game is called New Vegas and nothing else of note happens on the Strip. Also: there's a Westside water quest? I sunk like 200 hours into NV and never ran into it. Berke Negri posted:nah just high end mercs that *gestures vaguely off camera* are mysteriously paid by some unknown party that's never disclosed There's a few bits of lore here and there about how the Gunners are basically a gun cult and while they do work as mercenary they're also kinda their own aggressively armed group with their own agenda. Functionally in gameplay this still just makes them raiders with better guns but they did at least try to add in a little more than they did with Talon Co.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:46
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Cream-of-Plenty posted:Man it's crazy that the same people who put effort into making that map are the same people who wrote "Ceasar's Legion" I can personally confirm that some of the best cartographers out there are rather careless spellers. I got noticed at work for my ability to do basic proofreading and copy-editing.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:46
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Wolfsheim posted:Also the Three Families, which is especially glaring considering the game is called New Vegas and nothing else of note happens on the Strip. Also: there's a Westside water quest? I sunk like 200 hours into NV and never ran into it. The White Wash, it's called. You don't actually pick it up in Westside, is the thing, IIRC Lt. Boyd gives it to you at McCarran.
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Jul 24, 2018 15:49
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Wolfsheim posted:I don't think House is lying about space travel (I don't think House actually lies to you at any point, nor does the game imply it, he's pretty straightforward about even his most reprehensible ideas) but I do question the efficacy of space travel. Like, maybe before the war when resources were still in numerous supply as was transportation of goods, but once the bombs fell its kinda too late to escape disaster; it already happened. Old world thinking, I guess. I think House's reasoning there was that thanks to the war Earth is a hosed up mess and probably not fixable (despite the fact that we know things like the GECK exist), so it's off to the stars to find another planet and pretend the rest of this never happened. This seems like a really bizarre goal for some who survived the end of the world but House doesn't lack for imagination or ambition. While everyone else is fighting over a worthless patch of dirt he's just going to peace out. Him being from the Old World is probably why he doesn't think like most of the other leaders you encounter. He wants to do more than just survive or eke out a meager living. He has plans for the future. It doesn't seem like it's too far beyond the realm of possiblity really. We know the US had a permanent presence in space before the war, and assuming you didn't blow them up the ghouls from REPCONN manage to escape to... somewhere.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:00
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There's nothing anywhere in the solar system that's more habitable than Earth though. Wasting a ton of resources on trying to colonise space instead of using them to rebuild the world doesn't sound like the plan of a smart pragmatist.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:22
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He wants a clean slate and is delusional enough to think his mere presence won't permanently stain it on contact.
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Jul 24, 2018 16:40
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Wherever the Bright Followers go it's definitely still on Earth, since they're close enough to rebuild Novac at the end of New Vegas
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Jul 24, 2018 16:55
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Dalael posted:It beats the shacks that most people have tho, so I don't see why it's such an issue. It's not really an issue, just an observation: The Strip is kind of dull and less memorable and exciting than many other places in New Vegas despite how much it's built up and how much of the games story-line is based around it. It doesn't mean the game is "trash", you can criticize something and still enjoy it. I mean, I think at this point I've spent several pages praising New Vegas and talking about how great it is and how much I love it and the characters and the writing. I feel like I've earned the right to call one small part of it less than perfect and mildly lackluster 
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Jul 24, 2018 17:00
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Space Cadet Omoly posted:It's not really an issue, just an observation: The Strip is kind of dull and less memorable and exciting than many other places in New Vegas despite how much it's built up and how much of the games story-line is based around it. It doesn't mean the game is "trash", you can criticize something and still enjoy it. Sorry, my comment was not specific to you or anyone in this thread in general. More of a thing I've noticed about people playing Fallout. Whether here, on facebook or on reddit, "Fallout is Trash despite how much I play it" seems to be a general trend amongst players. I suspect that if I joined a gaming thread for any other game, it probably would be the same tho  I meant no offense.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:08
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Wolfsheim posted:There's a few bits of lore here and there about how the Gunners are basically a gun cult and while they do work as mercenary they're also kinda their own aggressively armed group with their own agenda. Functionally in gameplay this still just makes them raiders with better guns but they did at least try to add in a little more than they did with Talon Co. oh yeah i mean they're broadly characterized, i just always felt quincy and GNR were both kind of missed opportunities. quincy for not really having...any closure for something that is mentioned throughout the game, and GNR could have included much more detail on the workings of the gunners in terminals
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Jul 24, 2018 17:09
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CharlestonJew posted:Wherever the Bright Followers go it's definitely still on Earth, since they're close enough to rebuild Novac at the end of New Vegas They went to the moon and you can't tell me otherwise
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Jul 24, 2018 17:10
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Berke Negri posted:quincy for not really having...any closure for something that is mentioned throughout the game https://www.nexusmods.com/fallout4/mods/22036/ quote:Lore-friendly - This is SO lore-friendly it should have been in the game.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:26
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Samuel Clemens posted:There's nothing anywhere in the solar system that's more habitable than Earth though. Wasting a ton of resources on trying to colonise space instead of using them to rebuild the world doesn't sound like the plan of a smart pragmatist. After watching civilization destroy itself in the war, it might make sense to start creating backups though. I guess non-hosed up vaults would still be more practical in the near term, but long term (and House likes to think of himself as a visionary), something bigger might be appealing too.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:37
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the gunners were originally planned to be ex-lamplight people which is why macready has a connection with them but they cut that so nope, just random thugs
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Jul 24, 2018 17:56
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I kind of love Bethesda's weird sequel thing of saying "after the last game everything went incredibly badly"
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Jul 24, 2018 18:21
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You DO get that House is the exact same way though, right? Like, his backstory is that he woke up from his long slumber because he smelled the sweet scent of cash being generated via capitalism and then used robots to beat a bunch of local tribes into being his servants so he could rule over them from the shadows like an oligarchical vampire. In many ways the NCR and House are different flavors of the same thing. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing, the game makes it very clear that while House/The NCR have faults they're not anywhere near as evil or awful as the Legion. Which is basically why the legion exists, to remind players that if a political power vacuum isn't filled by the a system that's flawed but functional something horrible will probably come along to take over and makes things much MUCH worse. Dalael posted:Sorry, my comment was not specific to you or anyone in this thread in general. More of a thing I've noticed about people playing Fallout. Whether here, on facebook or on reddit, "Fallout is Trash despite how much I play it" seems to be a general trend amongst players. None taken! To be clear: I do love Fallout and that's why I've played it so much, I'm just also the kind of person who loves taking the things I love apart and writing pages and pages about their strengths and faults and other inner workings. ....metaphorically, I mean. I don't have a basement full of vivisected childhood pets, I'm not Dr. Borous. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 19:16
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the capital wasteland staying absolute poo poo just feels right commonwealth kind of seems like it will turn out okay provided you didn't take over all of boston with raiders but bethesda is really skittish about nailing down concretely what your the previous protagonist actually did so maybe fallout 5 will just be way far away unexpectedly i'd actually be down for more maine if the mainland is anything like far harbor
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Jul 24, 2018 19:22
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I remember reading somewhere else someone whose critique of New Vegas was something along the lines of "it's too centrist and doesn't have a leftist option for the faction." Now, I do think that was not a very generous critique of the game, but it does make me wonder whether there's space for a depiction of a political system that isn't turbo-capitalism or turbo-feudalism in Fallout's world. One that isn't THOSE PESKY EVIL CHINESE COMMIES, btw.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:23
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I remember reading somewhere else someone whose critique of New Vegas was something along the lines of "it's too centrist and doesn't have a leftist option for the faction." Now, I do think that was not a very generous critique of the game, but it does make me wonder whether there's space for a depiction of a political system that isn't turbo-capitalism or turbo-feudalism in Fallout's world. That could be, potentially, a super interesting game. It would probably play out a little like Fallout 4's settlement system, where you travel to different individual towns and convince them to work together for the greater good which allows them to flourish and prosper. Space Cadet Omoly fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 19:30
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Then you get quests to impose harsh quotas and institute gulags, because we need to have moral choices, and nuance is hard.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:33
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I remember reading somewhere else someone whose critique of New Vegas was something along the lines of "it's too centrist and doesn't have a leftist option for the faction." Now, I do think that was not a very generous critique of the game, but it does make me wonder whether there's space for a depiction of a political system that isn't turbo-capitalism or turbo-feudalism in Fallout's world. I mean theoretically that'd be Wild Card? Complete with the core problem facing all benevolent dictatorships. What happens when the benevolent dictator dies, whether by old age or betrayal.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:47
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I keep reminding people, wild card isn't the courier building their own state. They're recognized as the one who kept the Mojave free of interlopers and technocratic landlords, but none of the endings say anything to indicate that they assume a political role in what comes next.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:54
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chitoryu12 posted:Also we even get to see Gunners in a non-hostile context when they're intimidating MacCready, which leads into a conversation about how they're mercs and are pissed at MacCready for quitting and going solo. It bears utterly no resemblance to how they act in the rest of the wasteland, which is shooting anything and everything on sight. The gunners aren't pissed at MaCreedy for leaving, they are pissed that he continues to operate within their boundaries. In many cases you may find some gunners who will call out warnings for you to gently caress off before they open fire, because they would rather not waste the ammo. And there are even ones who will openly trade with the player in a non-hostile interaction, because that gunner knows it's the best way to get what they want, a shitload of caps.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:57
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I remember reading somewhere else someone whose critique of New Vegas was something along the lines of "it's too centrist and doesn't have a leftist option for the faction." Now, I do think that was not a very generous critique of the game, but it does make me wonder whether there's space for a depiction of a political system that isn't turbo-capitalism or turbo-feudalism in Fallout's world. I feel the same way, tbh. In a very boilerplate sense, the NCR was a bit too old world and capitalistic to really work for me, and the Yes Man ending seems like order-less if functional chaos that really isn't the blank slate for which I was hoping. I'd love a followers democratic socialist state or something to that effect, although I see why that would be difficult to implement. Space Cadet Omoly posted:That could be, potentially, a super interesting game. It would probably play out a little like Fallout 4's settlement system, where you travel to different individual towns and convince them to work together for the greater good which allows them to flourish and prosper. Fallout 4 isn't quite so firmly grounded in strong ideologies, so I always kind of imagined the Minutemen as being a generally anti-authoritarian leftist state, seeing as how they seem to trade resources freely between settlements and don't have a notable class structure other than you being the general of the army, which itself isn't really functionally distinct from the rest of the citizenry even if it's intended to be. Exactly how much of that is deliberate design choice or just how I project my own beliefs onto a black slate of a faction is certainly up for debate.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:00
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The only canon ending to the Courier's path is that they became the watchman over the Big Empty. Everything else is speculation.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:04
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Riatsala posted:Fallout 4 isn't quite so firmly grounded in strong ideologies, so I always kind of imagined the Minutemen as being a generally anti-authoritarian leftist state, seeing as how they seem to trade resources freely between settlements and don't have a notable class structure other than you being the general of the army, which itself isn't really functionally distinct from the rest of the citizenry even if it's intended to be. Exactly how much of that is deliberate design choice or just how I project my own beliefs onto a black slate of a faction is certainly up for debate. If anything, you being given the title "General" is some kind of weird anarchist thing whereby getting "promoted," you're actually made the lowest wo/man on the totem pole who has to do all the dirty work of designing and constructing settlements, handling the bureaucracy of recruitment and setting up logistics, and then go get shot whenever a citizen asks you to do something dangerous, in addition to being the head of the salvage department. Keeshhound fucked around with this message at 20:22 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 20:09
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CobiWann posted:So, the Gunners...descendants of the brainwashed soldier kids from Vault 75? Implied but never proven, I think? It makes some sense and explains how the Gunners got into 95, but if they really were, they'd probably still be using the computers there for stuff. I can see them wanting to make a legitimate break from the place, but again, no proof of that either.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:15
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what faction do u think todd would pick?
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Jul 24, 2018 20:15
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Glazius posted:Implied but never proven, I think? It makes some sense and explains how the Gunners got into 95, but if they really were, they'd probably still be using the computers there for stuff. I can see them wanting to make a legitimate break from the place, but again, no proof of that either. the kids overthrew the vault like shortly after the war iirc and the gunners freely recruit anyone qualified so even if it were the case everyone involved in the vault would have died long long ago Riatsala posted:Fallout 4 isn't quite so firmly grounded in strong ideologies, so I always kind of imagined the Minutemen as being a generally anti-authoritarian leftist state, seeing as how they seem to trade resources freely between settlements and don't have a notable class structure other than you being the general of the army, which itself isn't really functionally distinct from the rest of the citizenry even if it's intended to be. Exactly how much of that is deliberate design choice or just how I project my own beliefs onto a black slate of a faction is certainly up for debate. railroad+minutemen would probably be the best bet for the commonwealth setting up the CPG finally but neither are really interested in running things as they're both basically resistance fighters/mutual protection force, they'd probably step to the side and let all the settlements hash some kind of government out
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Jul 24, 2018 20:23
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Fair Bear Maiden posted:I remember reading somewhere else someone whose critique of New Vegas was something along the lines of "it's too centrist and doesn't have a leftist option for the faction." Now, I do think that was not a very generous critique of the game, but it does make me wonder whether there's space for a depiction of a political system that isn't turbo-capitalism or turbo-feudalism in Fallout's world. Of course it doesn't have a leftist option, moral greyness would be pointless if there was a clear good guy faction
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Jul 24, 2018 21:01
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Bethesda confirmed there will be a ton of new info on Fallout 76 at Quakecon, during the second week of August. 
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Jul 24, 2018 22:26
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Keeshhound posted:If anything, you being given the title "General" is some kind of weird anarchist thing whereby getting "promoted," you're actually made the lowest wo/man on the totem pole who has to do all the dirty work of designing and constructing settlements, handling the bureaucracy of recruitment and setting up logistics, and then go get shot whenever a citizen asks you to do something dangerous, in addition to being the head of the salvage department. Great, the Sole Survivor got made into the Minutemen's pet final boss.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:22
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