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Amechwarrior posted:I just got to watch Shin Godzilla the same day the new Legendary trailer dropped. I'm excited for the Legendary film, but way more hyped for what comes next out of Toho after watching that. I even watched it again the next day and that's something I almost never do with any movie. Shin Godzilla really set the bar high for me, the cultural critique on nuclear weapons/disasters is something I think the American films leave behind or would have a very hard time adapting to the audience. That Evangelion music call back was unexpected but fitting given how much Anno applied the cinematography and special effects style from Eva on to the movie. I think Toho has to wait until Legendary is done with the current run or something, after 2020? There's some legal poo poo about it that I might be mistaken about. But yeah Shin Godzilla is incredible and is probably my favorite of the lot. I don't try to compare it to the Legendary movies though since they are night and day in terms of what they're portraying.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:33
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I highly doubt that Toho signed a deal that prevents then from using one of their flagship IPs however the gently caress they please, the lack of followup to Shin probably has more to do with Anno wanting to work on his own projects again/he ruffled feathers by coming into Shin Godzilla and deciding to actually direct it instead of churning out NHK filler like the initial plan.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:39
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Yeah for real in terms of licensing stuff you do not even breathe the word Godzilla without Toho being cool with it. I do think after how Shin Godzilla came out they might want to try to make something that's Actually Good again, like Babysitter Super Sleuth says instead of just dumping out NHK filler like Shin Godzilla was meant to be. If that's the case it's probably less that they "can't" release it until the Legendary run is up but probably want to space it out a bit to be its own thing or wait until Anno and whomever else helped make Shin Godzilla awesome can come together again. Plus either way it might take some time to get a story down. I mean the way Shin Godzilla ended? Godzilla waking up again would be some beyond apocalyptic stuff, like the world would basically end. IIRC the rumor when it was first announced they were doing another one was that the same designs would be used but it would be a sort of standalone thing in the same style? Budget wise it would be impossible but it would be great if something in the style of the recent Godzilla anime was done with this one where it's just like, gently caress it, it's the far future and we super advanced technology and travel the stars and stuff but gently caress you Godzilla is back. I mean don't tell me you wouldn't kill for an Anno directed huge budget flick with this setup that, unlike the anime, doesn't suck: quote:In the last summer of the 20th century, giant monsters began appearing all over the world and wreaking havoc. A powerful creature called Godzilla appeared which destroyed humans and monsters alike. Two species of aliens, the Exif and the Bilusaludo, arrived with the former attempting to convert humanity to their religion and the latter seeking to emigrate to Earth with promises to defeat Godzilla with Mechagodzilla, should humanity accept them. However, the Bilusaludo were unable to activate Mechagodzilla, which forced the aliens and humanity to abandon Earth and emigrate to Tau Ceti e via the Aratrum. Neo Rasa fucked around with this message at 17:52 on Jul 24, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 17:44
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It was posted somewhere earlier in the thread, but I think the plan is no direct follow-up to Shin (probably a good idea) and they're focusing on relaunching an extended universe like every other company in the world.
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Jul 24, 2018 17:47
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LesterGroans posted:It was posted somewhere earlier in the thread, but I think the plan is no direct follow-up to Shin (probably a good idea) and they're focusing on relaunching an extended universe like every other company in the world. I'm surprised this didn't happen earlier, didn't everyone else drop a Gamera and Ultraman etc. movie around the same time as Shin Godzilla?
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Jul 24, 2018 17:53
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LesterGroans posted:It was posted somewhere earlier in the thread, but I think the plan is no direct follow-up to Shin (probably a good idea) and they're focusing on relaunching an extended universe like every other company in the world. I mean That's just business as usual for Toho though. As noted above, they had the second cinematic universe in the history of film. (The third is either the Puppetmaster universe or the Freddy and Jason universe, depending. The other is the fourth. Marvel is the fifth)
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Jul 24, 2018 17:56
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Burkion posted:I mean What about Alien vs Predator?
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Jul 24, 2018 18:02
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Ghost Leviathan posted:What about Alien vs Predator? Part of the Freddy VS Jason intercontinuity
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Jul 24, 2018 18:17
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Burkion posted:I mean Yeah, that's why I said relaunching. But I remember the wording of the announcement was funny, as if it wasn't SOP for Godzilla to have an extended universe.
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Jul 24, 2018 18:20
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Yeah Toho announced a few months back that they're gearing up for a new Godzilla franchise of continuity films that don't follow from Shin.
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Jul 24, 2018 18:46
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Amechwarrior posted:Shin Godzilla really set the bar high for me, the cultural critique on nuclear weapons/disasters is something I think the American films leave behind or would have a very hard time adapting to the audience. I think the critique on nuclear weapons and disasters is a very specifically Japanese thing. It's a message that would never resonate with American audiences, and I think Legendary did a good job of adapting the spirit of Godzilla. Americans aren't scarred as a culture by nuclear weapons and fear their use again, Americans are worried about ecological apocalypse, unstoppable forces we can barely comprehend that don't even notice the humans dying by the score in their wake. Both takes are ultimately concerned with humans unleashing forces we can't control or stop. Neo Rasa posted:Someone was saying eco terrorist character has a device that lets her communicate or somehow understand the kaiju? If that's true and the device isn't literally the twins in that box why even film the movie? Because let's be honest: that was extremely 60s Japan and wouldn't fly with American audiences. I'd expect a joke like that, like maybe the Monarch scientists in charge of the Mothra facility are identical twins, but according to the actress in the interview where she talked about the device, she said was based on sonic waves - the same kind of stuff Cranston's character in G14 was playing with, the way the Mutos communicated.
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Jul 24, 2018 19:09
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I'm hoping they find an excuse to have Mothra's theme in the movie, at least.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:04
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Cythereal posted:I think the critique on nuclear weapons and disasters is a very specifically Japanese thing. It's a message that would never resonate with American audiences, and I think Legendary did a good job of adapting the spirit of Godzilla. Americans aren't scarred as a culture by nuclear weapons and fear their use again, Americans are worried about ecological apocalypse, unstoppable forces we can barely comprehend that don't even notice the humans dying by the score in their wake. Both takes are ultimately concerned with humans unleashing forces we can't control or stop. Except G'14 explicitly ties the emergence of ecological and national disaster with nuclear proliferation. It's just no longer Godzilla who is its specific product. The threat is displaced onto the MUTOs, while Godzilla takes the position of a radicalizing, heroic force, which is exactly what occurred throughout the trajectory of the Showa Godzilla movies. He became a superhero who, while called up by the bomb, also emerged from and transcended it as something stronger. Like Spider-Man, or the Hulk. Focusing too much on Gojira and now Shin often distracts from this, that there's always been a far more nuanced and universalist character to the Godzilla films than simply "nukes are bad." The generic precondition of ecological monster movies can only be repeated so many times before you adjust to evolving social realities, which Toho did. G'14 isn't conspicuously lacking a critique of nuclear proliferation - it opens with a Fukushima incident. What happens instead is that, the joke is, nukes are useless: Godzilla isn't hurt by them, and the MUTOs eat them. You know how there's that truism about how conspiracy theories are attractive because it's easier to believe that there's a cabal of lizard men behind the sky making the world poo poo, than it is to believe that the world is poo poo because of the spontaneous chaos of just bog-standard human avarice? This is precisely what Edwards, in a Spielbergian way, parodies. The Bomb is revealed as a fetish. It is convenient to treat it like a defining example of man's inhumanity, because at a certain level its monumental lethality assures us that it can only exist and be utilized as the ultimate tool of malevolent purpose. But what nobody wants to recognize is that the Bomb is not only dangerous, but also stupid. Outside of a completely narrow historical window of strategic convenience, the Bomb is useless, it has never again found a useful tactical theater, and we just kept paying for more of them because we were afraid of being the ones who had the least. The scary thing, isn't necessarily that this thing you've spent half a century investing in will ultimately kill you. Americans get hard for that poo poo, it's their favorite socially conscious death dream. What's scary (and funny) is that all of your ideological conceptions, including the Bomb, are microscopic garbage. What happens in G'14 re: nuclear weapons isn't at all different from what happens in Mothra. Japanese filmmakers in the early '60s found it perfectly plausible that politicians would allow foreign troops to deploy nuclear weapons on their home soil again, as long as it just wan't a bomb! But then... Oh, gently caress, it didn't do anything.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:08
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Szmitten posted:It's a shame this stuff doesn't get preserved often, and how easy it is to lose the tapes. Glad there's some preservation though, it's a great pre-Millenium documentary. Maybe the UK premiere, but AMC beat them by a few years with their Halloween Monstervision programming, back when that was a pseudo premium channel without censorship or commercials mid movie. I'm pretty sure they were the western premieres of g vs mothra battle for the earth and g vs kg in like, 96. Then for the 99 monsterfest they quietly debuted the final 3 heisei films to the US in the middle of an insanely long kaiju marathon that month. That was the year Roger Corman hosted and had a goofy original serial in between the movies. Cable tv used to be so fun.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:12
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K. Waste posted:Except G'14 explicitly ties the emergence of ecological and national disaster with nuclear proliferation. It's just no longer Godzilla who is its specific product. The threat is displaced onto the MUTOs, while Godzilla takes the position of a radicalizing, heroic force, which is exactly what occurred throughout the trajectory of the Showa Godzilla movies. He became a superhero who, while called up by the bomb, also emerged from and transcended it as something stronger. Like Spider-Man, or the Hulk. Godzilla vs. Hedorah explicitly separates the atomic age and technological progress from environmental apocalypse, with Godzilla teaming up with the scientific establishment to defeat pollution. The counterculture youth who reject capitalism and conformity are punished most severely by capitalism's externalities, literally melted into a pile of skeletons by a toxic sludge monster. You could read this as being reactionary, but the message seems to be more about highlighting the self-destructive, fatalistic bent to non-participation and scapegoating.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:37
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K. Waste posted:Except G'14 explicitly ties the emergence of ecological and national disaster with nuclear proliferation. Eh, nothing woken up in G14 has anything to do with nuclear weapons. Godzilla was woken up by a nuclear powered submarine that passed by (and if anything trying to nuke him just made him stronger), and the male Muto attacked a perfectly safe nuclear power plant. Nukes have nothing to do with G14 beyond "it's Godzilla we gotta shove nukes in there somehow." You sound like an undergrad film student.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:43
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Cythereal posted:Eh, nothing woken up in G14 has anything to do with nuclear weapons. Godzilla was woken up by a nuclear powered submarine that passed by (and if anything trying to nuke him just made him stronger), and the male Muto attacked a perfectly safe nuclear power plant. Nukes have nothing to do with G14 beyond "it's Godzilla we gotta shove nukes in there somehow." Well, and a whole act of the film set in a Fukushima-style disaster zone.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:43
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:Well, and a whole act of the film set in a Fukushima-style disaster zone. That isn't actually radioactive or a disaster zone and the "nuclear disaster zone" is just a coverup to stop people from finding out about the kaiju.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:44
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I don't think choosing to place a significant portion of the film in that setting was coincidental.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:46
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't think choosing to place a significant portion of the film in that setting was coincidental. Neither do I, but nor do I think "NUKES BAD" is the point being made with it.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:47
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Mechafunkzilla posted:Even the tiny glimpses we've gotten of King Ghidorah, Mothra, and Rodan really hammer home just how lame and devoid of personality the MUTOs were. You can't tell me you didn't feel something from the computer-generated scream when she saw her nest exploded 
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Jul 24, 2018 20:47
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Cythereal posted:I think the critique on nuclear weapons and disasters is a very specifically Japanese thing. It's a message that would never resonate with American audiences, and I think Legendary did a good job of adapting the spirit of Godzilla. Americans aren't scarred as a culture by nuclear weapons and fear their use again, Americans are worried about ecological apocalypse, unstoppable forces we can barely comprehend that don't even notice the humans dying by the score in their wake. Both takes are ultimately concerned with humans unleashing forces we can't control or stop. Uh the twins chat with Mothra by singing? I know it won't happen but I can dream. 
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Jul 24, 2018 20:48
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Burkion posted:As noted above, they had the second cinematic universe in the history of film. (The third is either the Puppetmaster universe or the Freddy and Jason universe, depending. The other is the fourth. Marvel is the fifth) I've been googling and I suspect there may have been a shared cinematic universe featuring Sherlock Holmes (Viggo Larsen ) and Arsène Lupin (Paul Otto) in some serialised German shorts around 1910 and 1911 but the films are mostly lost so it's really hard to tell. Larsen previously played Holmes in some other shorts and it looks like at least one of the serialised Lupin stories didn't feature Holmes so  maybe??I'd also count the Mexican lucha libre Santo & Blue Demon films as another shared cinematic universe, and there were a bunch of 1960s Italian swords-and-sandals films that crossed over their characters (like Hercules, Samson, Maciste, and Ursus: the Invincibles) but I have no idea whether the character in that crossover had any continuity with their own films. I'm pretty sure they didn't even give a poo poo about continuity in their solo films since Maciste met up with the ancient Egyptian Pharoahs and Genghis Khan and cavemen fighting dinosaurs and Zorro. Rin Tin Tin Jnr and Rex The Wonder Horse also had a crossover serial in 1935 but I have no idea whether their characters held any continuity with their solo films either. There's also Zatoichi and the One-Armed Swordsman and probably a bunch more wuxia and/or chanbara crossovers that I can't remember. (I don't count Zatoichi Meets Yojimbo as a legit crossover, Mifune's character isn't really the same as it was in Yojimbo and Sanjuro.) The Christopher Reeve Superman films are also teeeeechnically a shared universe with the Supergirl movie but that's a pretty lovely example.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:51
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I like that Shin isn't getting a followup, it ends on a nice semifinal note and a fantastic parting shot. I always liked the era of Godzilla movies that were essentially "What if?" scenarios, in that many of them were self-contained sequels to the original Godzilla.
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Jul 24, 2018 20:57
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Godzilla in G'14 was woken up by the "mating calls" the MUTOs were sending out.
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Jul 24, 2018 22:28
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But, remember, he had previously awoken in the 50s, before the MUTOs?
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Jul 24, 2018 22:33
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Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:I highly doubt that Toho signed a deal that prevents then from using one of their flagship IPs however the gently caress they please Shin Godzilla co-director posted:“A lot of people have questions. ‘When is the next Japanese Godzilla movie coming out?’ They cannot make it until after 2020,” Higuchi told the G-Fest audience.
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Jul 24, 2018 22:35
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Mantis42 posted:But, remember, he had previously awoken in the 50s, before the MUTOs? Specifically, they note he was woken up by the USS Nautilus, the world's first nuclear-powered submarine. Godzilla re-emerges in the modern day because of the mating calls of the Mutos, but he's been active since the 50s.
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Jul 24, 2018 22:42
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Cythereal posted:Neither do I, but nor do I think "NUKES BAD" is the point being made with it. There's only no radiation because the MUTO absorbed it all. The nuclear powered submarine was also armed with a bunch of nukes that the female tears out of it. There's a whole plot throughout the latter third of the movie about trying to move a nuke into San Francisco that the movie shows and tells you that it's a stupid, dangerous plan that won't work. Almost everything related to man made nuclear energy is presented in a bad light.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:06
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Cythereal posted:Eh, nothing woken up in G14 has anything to do with nuclear weapons. Godzilla was woken up by a nuclear powered submarine that passed by (and if anything trying to nuke him just made him stronger), and the male Muto attacked a perfectly safe nuclear power plant. Nukes have nothing to do with G14 beyond "it's Godzilla we gotta shove nukes in there somehow." Well, no: the MUTOs are explicitly woken up by and attracted to the entrenched infrastructure of nuclear energy and nuclear waste disposal. These are not simply things that are shoved into the plot for formality's sake - they directly impact the emergence of the monsters and the progression of the narrative. There's even a whole seen where Serizawa implores Admiral Stenz to not use nuclear weapons, producing his father's watch, stopped at the exact moment of the Hiroshima bombing. The terror of nuclear weapons specifically and nuclear proliferation in general is a pervading theme throughout the film, established in the very first sequence which remakes the Castle Bravo test as a deliberate tactical maneuver by the American military, and bookended by the detonation of yet another completely failed military operation using a nuclear weapon. Just like Shin Godzilla, the stagnation of time is an overarching theme throughout Edwards' film, this idea that we are living in this perpetual "post-war period" from which there can be no progress because, for respective reasons (the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki and ensuing occupation period for Japan, the glorious mythology of World War II and the post-war suburban baby-boom for the U.S.), the characters are perpetually grasping for an intangible, unsustainable ideal of security and normality. And so here come the MUTOs, the quite literal "nuclear family," a horrific representation of the cynical and avaricious family unit as sanctified by capitalism, but which also portends the ultimate fate of this ideology: seeking a timelessness in nostalgia and an "end of history" in the future, all we have done is accelerated our path back to the stone age. Cythereal posted:That isn't actually radioactive or a disaster zone and the "nuclear disaster zone" is just a coverup to stop people from finding out about the kaiju. Correct: the story that the district is an unlivable disaster area is there to cover-up the fact that a "perfectly safe" nuclear power plant awakened a prehistoric monster that thrives on nuclear energy. As in Mothra, the superficial threat of contamination serves as a convenient misdirection from the real story, which is that Infant Island/not-Fukushima is perfectly clean, and that there is a subterranean/subaltern being whose very existence challenges the status quo of modernity. Just as in Gojira and Mothra, the bomb is a symptom, not the cause. The monster and nuclear proliferation are inextricably related, but the role of the latter is to symbolically accelerate the conditions that manifest the former, either as an apocalyptic and avaricious force, or as a radical savior.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:06
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Tezcatlipoca posted:There's only no radiation because the MUTO absorbed it all. The nuclear powered submarine was also armed with a bunch of nukes that the female tears out of it. There's a whole plot throughout the latter third of the movie about trying to move a nuke into San Francisco that the movie shows and tells you that it's a stupid, dangerous plan that won't work. Almost everything related to man made nuclear energy is presented in a bad light. the nuke the female tears out of the sub is actually just it's reactor vessel.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:11
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Szmitten posted:They literally did that. The people at Legendary are huge Eva fans and they knew the only way they’d get Anno to make the last Rebuild movie is to legally prevent him from making another Godzilla so quickly Jokes on them though, he can wait ‘em out
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Jul 24, 2018 23:32
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Jul 24, 2018 23:36
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Cythereal posted:Neither do I, but nor do I think "NUKES BAD" is the point being made with it. I think the scene with Serizawa's stopped Hiroshima watch (and the overall implication that the military's original plan is probably gonna kill a lot of people for no reason) sorta does make that point though.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:38
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HannibalBarca posted:I think the scene with Serizawa's stopped Hiroshima watch (and the overall implication that the military's original plan is probably gonna kill a lot of people for no reason) sorta does make that point though. I think it's more just a "kaiju bad" message. Nuclear power, when not being attacked by giant monsters, is very safe and far better for the environment than fossil fuels.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:44
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Nuclear power != nuclear weapons.
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Jul 24, 2018 23:50
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Stairmaster posted:Nuclear power != nuclear weapons. I don't think nuclear weapons are intrinsically bad, either. Seeing nukes as inherently evil and bad is a Japanese thing. I saw that as "There is not a drat thing humanity can do about an apocalyptic force like this, not even our mightiest tools and weapons" rather than NUKES BAD. Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 24, 2018 23:58
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Giant Monster Megathread: I don't think nuclear weapons are intrinsically bad, either
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Jul 25, 2018 00:51
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K. Waste posted:Giant Monster Megathread: I don't think nuclear weapons are intrinsically bad, either They're weapons, no more or less moral than any other. But you're a SMG wannabe, so I don't expect that to register with you.
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Jul 25, 2018 00:56
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Nuclear weapons are bad, on a moral level. I'm willing to take this apparently controversial stance
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Jul 25, 2018 01:19
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