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Blistex posted:Anyone see any plans or kits for wiring up LED lighting separate from the rest of the wiring? What I'm talking about is instead of having 120v running all over the house for every light, have all the lighting run off of a single wall wart that's got an output of 121V or so. I'm building a small three bedroom cabin, and have been toying with the idea. The cabin has a small 24x32' footprint, so it's not like I need to run DC wiring over vast distances either. Voltage drop is hell on low voltage stuff. That said, no, there aren't any kits per se. It's a fairly straightforward problem to engineer, though. 1) Select your lighting solutions. Get wattages for everything. 2) Check the length of your runs and size your wire to avoid severe voltage drop. 3) Select a power supply that can supply the needed wattage for your fixtures + voltage drop in the wires. 4) Wire the low-voltage power supply into something, run your low-voltage wire. 5) profit.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:35
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I'd be looking at outdoor low voltage kits to get ideas about voltages and cable lengths.
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Jul 22, 2018 22:57
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angryrobots posted:Not if low voltage and 120v are going to be terminated in the same box. That's both a code issue and basically setting a trap for anyone who works on it later. That's a good point. So I guess you can't hide a microcontroller in a junction box and use its GPIO output pins then? Blistex posted:Anyone see any plans or kits for wiring up LED lighting separate from the rest of the wiring? What I'm talking about is instead of having 120v running all over the house for every light, have all the lighting run off of a single wall wart that's got an output of 121V or so. I'm building a small three bedroom cabin, and have been toying with the idea. The cabin has a small 24x32' footprint, so it's not like I need to run DC wiring over vast distances either. I don't understand why you'd do it this way instead of running 120VAC everywhere and using LED bulbs/off the shelf LED pot lights. The only reason I could ever see for running separate DC lines is if you were trying to run a solar setup without going through an inverter.
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Jul 23, 2018 02:30
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Breakfast Feud posted:That's a good point. So I guess you can't hide a microcontroller in a junction box and use its GPIO output pins then? Breakfast Feud posted:I don't understand why you'd do it this way instead of running 120VAC everywhere and using LED bulbs/off the shelf LED pot lights. The only reason I could ever see for running separate DC lines is if you were trying to run a solar setup without going through an inverter. Which is why you'd run LV everywhere. The code book doesn't care how you run wiring <48V. If it's on a power-limited supply, even better. This means you can run lights using single exposed conductors and use the hot water line as the return (if you wanted). Wire on the surface of a wall. Wire inside a vent plenum. Wire inside a submerged area where subject to damage. It doesn't matter. If it's power-limited and low-voltage, the code book treats it like rope. There's also the chance to have significantly higher total efficiency.
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Jul 23, 2018 22:06
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That's super interesting. I'm assuming you're in the US? The Canadian Electrical code, or at least the one endorsed in Manitoba, states in no uncertain terms you can't run any kind of wire in a plenum, ever, unless it's special plenum rated wire.
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Jul 24, 2018 00:09
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Mapping the circuits in my slumlord apartment: There are nine breakers: 240V for the AC (2 breakers, tied), GFI for the single bathroom/sink outlet, a circuit for the single outlet on the dividing wall between the living room/bedroom, a circuit for a single outlet by the front door, one for the refrigerator, one for a single outlet next to the sink in the kitchen, one that is completely unused - doesn't connect to anything, and no outlets go hot or go off when I switch it. There are zero blanked plates. and the remaining one (circuit 3 by my label) for: NINE outlets around the entire apartment perimeter wall, one of the outlets in the kitchen, ALL ceiling light fixtures (including bathroom and kitchen and front porch), and the switched outlet by the front door.
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Jul 25, 2018 04:20
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Metal Geir Skogul posted:Mapping the circuits in my slumlord apartment: lol I have 4 15A screw fused circuits for literally everything in my house except the oven, dryer, WH, and HVAC I put a GFCI on the string behind the kitchen counter a couple weeks ago and the found out the hard way that the fridge, dishwasher, and washing machine are all also on that string. shame on an IGA fucked around with this message at 04:57 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 04:54
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shame on an IGA posted:lol I have 4 15A screw fused circuits for literally everything in my house except the oven, dryer, WH, and HVAC Please get out of my house. I also have a couple of breakers in my additional panel that I have no idea where they go to at this time. Not to mention some 220v 15a outlets in rooms that I think are wired to the fuse panel but I have no idea how that's supposed to work and I'm terrified to even touch them. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 14:09
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My house has some pretty old wiring, a small breaker panel (already with a couple of tandem breakers on it), is lacking outlets in some conspicuous places, and has a few odd wiring choices. I'm considering paying for a full-house rewire, but I don't really know what I'd be getting into. I assume this is expensive, but whether that's $5k or $15k I don't know (~1100 sqft house, but in the San Francisco Bay Area). I assume it takes some time, but how long I don't know. I assume they'll need to open up the drywall a fair amount, but how much I don't know. Etc. Any advice/warnings/articles I could read?
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Jul 25, 2018 18:03
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I got a couple quotes on my 900 sqft(although at the time it was believed to be 1100) house and it was around $11k for a full rewire and fuse to breaker upgrade. $5-7k for just a fuse->breaker conversion, although it sounded like they wanted to turn the fuse box into a junction off a main breaker which is not the way I want to do it. E: also they almost certainly will tear up walls to run wires and their prices probably won't include repairs to it because they're electricians not drywall repair men. So factor in whatever that will cost or be prepared to do it yourself. SpartanIvy fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jul 25, 2018 |
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Jul 25, 2018 18:19
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My house has some pretty old wiring, a small breaker panel (already with a couple of tandem breakers on it), is lacking outlets in some conspicuous places, and has a few odd wiring choices. I'm considering paying for a full-house rewire, but I don't really know what I'd be getting into. I assume this is expensive, but whether that's $5k or $15k I don't know (~1100 sqft house, but in the San Francisco Bay Area). I assume it takes some time, but how long I don't know. I assume they'll need to open up the drywall a fair amount, but how much I don't know. Etc. We did this in Los Angeles. It was $11k-ish + $1kish to patch the plaster. We primed and painted it ourselves. Raised foundation 1947 1250sqft house. 200A main panel + 100A subpanel. 1. Make sure they use /3 wire to all ceiling fixtures you might put a fan on in the future. Wire the light and fan onto a combo switch for existing fans. If there isn't a box in a spot you probably want a fan, now is the time. 2. So much plaster dust. It will be on EVERYTHING and in the air. This very thread suggested ways to mitigate it, but it comes down to "live somewhere else for a few days." 3. Pay extra for the local "good" plaster company to patch your walls. It's worth it. We got lucky and most of the holes were just j-box sized for fishing wire around, but you could just as easily run into box-to-ceiling holes. 4. Do all the special gizmos now, like fancy light controllers, etc, so your electrician can install them and you don't have to worry about box-fill. 5. We had an outlet installed on either side of our bed. Highly recommend. Sucks to be the next owners with two strangely placed outlets but it's not my problem. Your workshop already has a subpanel as I recall so I wouldn't worry about it. Ours included a 15' trench and subpanel. If you don't have modern pipes, now is the time.
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Jul 25, 2018 18:34
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Breakfast Feud posted:That's super interesting. I'm assuming you're in the US? The Canadian Electrical code, or at least the one endorsed in Manitoba, states in no uncertain terms you can't run any kind of wire in a plenum, ever, unless it's special plenum rated wire.
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Jul 25, 2018 20:24
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Thanks, y'all. I'm pretty sure that my pipes are old; the house was gradually decaying when I got it and that was most of 10 years ago. As for gizmos, I'm really not sold on "smart house" tech, so about all I might want is network cable, and TBH wireless is just so much easier to deal with on that front. Mostly I want to upgrade the main panel to 200A, get better outlets, and make my circuits actually make some goddamn sense. Guess I should start thinking about a wishlist for "well, I'm going to have the walls open anyway..." though. Might be time to take a look at my insulation situation.
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Jul 25, 2018 20:44
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So I'm removing the drop ceiling in the basement in preparation for running the new circuit for my living room outlets and find this: That's 25 ft of 10/3 or 8/3 (no markings, not sure) that's powering my central air compressor. When it was put in the installer just threw it behind the ceiling tiles, apparently the 20 minutes it would've required to remove the tiles and properly nail it down was too much.
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Jul 25, 2018 20:47
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Double post! My living room's old outlets were wired by running the supply & load right into the outlet box:  I'd like to run the new circuit by branching the supply off to each outlet from the basement like this:  Besides costing a little extra for the junction box hardware & extra wire nuts, is there a reason not to do this? Not having to pull 2 wires through the floor & walls and not having to stuff a bunch of junk into the outlet box seems like a better solution.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:18
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For it to be to code you'd have to have access to the junction boxes, so if you were planning to stick them behind a wall or something in the basement that would be a reason not to.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:22
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Thanks, y'all. I'm pretty sure that my pipes are old; the house was gradually decaying when I got it and that was most of 10 years ago. As for gizmos, I'm really not sold on "smart house" tech, so about all I might want is network cable, and TBH wireless is just so much easier to deal with on that front. Mostly I want to upgrade the main panel to 200A, get better outlets, and make my circuits actually make some goddamn sense. Insulation goes in the other side.  (They drill a hole into every fire break section and blow in cellulose.)I hate smart gizmos, but while they're pulling wire everywhere is the time to add cat6 everywhere. I semi-regret not doing it but I already have a cable between the two points I really care about. I lump wifi closer to "smart gizmo bullshit" than "standard electrical outlet." I was thinking more along the lines of this stuff: https://www.leviton.com/en/products/vpt24-1pz You can also get as many outside outlets as you like, it doesn't really impact price since you're doing "everything." If you're going to get solar in the next 10 years then tossing a solar compatible meter base/panel on there is wise. If your house isn't ideal for it (and your bills are not high enough) then it's just wasted money. Save you a few grand in re-wire costs down the road.
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Jul 25, 2018 21:35
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H110Hawk posted:Insulation goes in the other side. But yeah, by "smart gizmo bullshit" I mostly meant smart lights/thermostats/etc. I can see the value of running networking cable, I just don't actually really need it currently. But I guess I should designate one closet as a potential server room and make sure it has power and cat5 connections to the other major rooms. That's how that works, right? Single cable runs from a central switch out to each room you want to connect to? And yeah, the outdoor outlets are another motivating factor for a rewire. Right now there's one on the back of the garage and one on my workshop, which leaves a lot of gaps in coverage. I'd add more exterior outlets myself if there were wires in the walls to run them from, but the walls where I'd want outlets are all devoid of wires. I'm not in a huge hurry to go solar. But the main panel needs to go anyway. A little googling suggests that the main requirements are a 200A rating and two reserved slots on the load side of the panel. I want 200A anyway, that's no big deal, and I can't imagine it would be too hard to find panels that have spare slots on the back. What am I missing that would make this cost a few grand? Or is it the meter replacement that does that? Because yeah, I wouldn't touch the meter unless and until it was time to actually install the solar panels, but changing the meter out shouldn't have to be done at the same time that the breaker panel is replaced, right?
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Jul 25, 2018 21:51
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:My house walls are drywall > stud bay > tar paper > exterior siding. There's not even any sheathing (thanks, 1950's construction and mild climate!). So there's no "other side" for insulation to go in. You are like my house twin. Although mine has brick after the wood siding, and my one rear outlet doesn't work.
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Jul 25, 2018 22:10
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H110Hawk posted:5. We had an outlet installed on either side of our bed. Highly recommend. Sucks to be the next owners with two strangely placed outlets but it's not my problem. I thought this was the norm, assuming you place the bed in a typical location? Even my old (early 80s) apartment has 1 on each side of where most people would place the bed; one half of a duplex outlet is switched by a wall switch. My grandfather's vacation home did it a little different - it had the same bedside outlets, but also had a switch on either side of the bed, plus a switch at the bedroom entrance. 4 way switches, both of those outlets switched (along with one on another wall - but that bedroom was bigger than my entire apartment), so you could kill all the lighting without getting out of bed so long as the overhead lighting wasn't on. TooMuchAbstraction posted:But yeah, by "smart gizmo bullshit" I mostly meant smart lights/thermostats/etc. I can see the value of running networking cable, I just don't actually really need it currently. But I guess I should designate one closet as a potential server room and make sure it has power and cat5 connections to the other major rooms. That's how that works, right? Single cable runs from a central switch out to each room you want to connect to? Yeah, and leave at least an extra foot of cable at each end coiled up in the box. Label each one at the closet end to reduce "where the gently caress does this go?" head scratching. While you're at it, add a coax jack, since most decent home internet comes in via coax (even FTTH usually converts to coax once it hits the optical terminal). I did this in the last house I lived in - ran 2 CAT5E runs to every room except the kitchen and dining room, and put in a 12 port patch panel in a bedroom closet (plus coax, RJ11 [in case I felt like adding VoIP later], and power). That house was a black hole for wifi, plus there were 4 desktops, and we had 300/300 at the time. Most rooms only needed 1 jack, but I did 2 for redundancy (and in case, say, a smart TV + gaming console came along).
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Jul 26, 2018 05:25
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e: goddamnit, don't keep 2 post windows open in different subforums. 
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Jul 26, 2018 06:00
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One more dumb camper question: I assumed anywhere with 220v plugs would also have 110 available, which now that I research RV parks appears to not be the case. If 220v is two "legs" of 110v is there an adapter to just hook into one of them and get usable 110v power or is that just not how it works at all and I've grossly misunderstood it? Like I'm looking at these places and they want 28 bucks a night for basically a parking space and a power socket (since I don't have septic/water (yet) or need the gigantic amount of asphalt an RV takes up) and if I can't even use the power then gently caress that.
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Jul 26, 2018 06:16
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Javid posted:One more dumb camper question: I've only stayed at maybe 5 camp sites with power, but they've all had a regular 15/20 amp outlet in addition to the 30 or 50 amp RV outlet. But yes, you can get adapters. Smaller RVs tend to have 30 amp 110v plugs, and big RVs have 50 amp 220v plugs. So, if you had a 30 amp RV, and wanted to plug it in to a 50 amp outlet, you could use an adapter like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01CKRLJ5U/ref=sspa_dk_detail_1?psc=1&pd_rd_i=B01CKRLJ5U Or if you had a 30 amp outlet and wanted to plug in a 15/20 amp cord, you could use and adapter like this https://www.amazon.com/Camco-PowerGrip-Durable-Electrical-Adapter/dp/B00192QB3I/ Or you could connect a regular 15/20 amp plug to a 50 amp outlet with something like this https://www.amazon.com/dp/B076GZYMVC/ But keep in mind these adapters do not have any fuses or other current limiting measures. They allow you to potentially go way over the current rating of the cord you plug into them, which is a fire hazard. If I had to use that 50 to 15 amp adapter, I'd consider using it in conjunction with something that has its own circuit breaker and gfci, like maybe https://www.amazon.com/Coleman-Cable-4-Outlet-15-Amp-Workshop/dp/B002RN13UY/
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Jul 26, 2018 08:08
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Right now my whole electrical setup is a surge protector wired to a shore power connector, which has a built in breaker whose amperage I do not know. The specific place I'm looking at says: "All sites have water, 20/30 or 50 amp power, and fire rings." Maybe I'm just missing the piece of common RV terminology where "20 amp" means "110v" and it isn't explicitly stated, or something. Not that I'm planning entirely around that one place, just wanna be able to hook up wherever.
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Jul 26, 2018 08:34
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Javid posted:Right now my whole electrical setup is a surge protector wired to a shore power connector, which has a built in breaker whose amperage I do not know. Yeah, in the US, a campsite with 15/20/30 amps is 110v, and 50 amps is 220v, and as you said earlier, the 220v can be split to 2 110v legs. Your shore power connector is a 15 amp plug, so you can plug a regular 15 amp 110v extension cord into it, and that can plug straight into a 15 or 20 amp outlet. If the campsite only has a 30 amp outlet, you could plug your extension cord into a 15f to 30m adapter like this and if the campsite only has a 50 amp outlet, you could plug your extension cord into the 15f to 30m adapter, and then plug that into a 30f to 50m adapter like this. Those 2 adapters should be all you need for any campsite. If for some reason those 2 adapters weren't enough, you'd see RV people complaining about that campsite in online reviews.
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Jul 26, 2018 10:05
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OK, that's what I needed to know, thanks.
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Jul 26, 2018 10:23
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Just chiming in to confirm, I've stayed in probably over 100 RV parks and I have never seen a powered space that didn't have a standard 15/20A 120v NEMA 5 outlet (usually two). You should have no trouble connecting what you have anywhere, though I would probably pick up the TT30->5-15 adapter that was posted because the 15/20A plugs at some parks can end up rusty from lack of use and it may be easier to just hook up through the 30A plug. You almost certainly will never need to adapt a 50A source, so I'd probably just skip that one. The advice about running it through something with overcurrent protection is probably a good idea as well if using any adapters from higher power sources.
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Jul 26, 2018 16:05
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Thanks, y'all. I'm pretty sure that my pipes are old; the house was gradually decaying when I got it and that was most of 10 years ago. As for gizmos, I'm really not sold on "smart house" tech, so about all I might want is network cable, and TBH wireless is just so much easier to deal with on that front. Mostly I want to upgrade the main panel to 200A, get better outlets, and make my circuits actually make some goddamn sense. I paid $2k for a service upgrade + new panel (100A -> 200A) in NJ. The only thing I'd really do differently is have them install a whole house surge protector at the same time. Eaton has a panel with it built in, so it shouldn't be too much extra.
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Jul 27, 2018 01:26
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I think there are whole house surge protectors that fit into a double breaker slot for any modern panel.
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Jul 27, 2018 01:56
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angryrobots posted:I think there are whole house surge protectors that fit into a double breaker slot for any modern panel. There are, but most I've seen don't fit in the breaker slots. Rather, you need a tandem breaker and they mount as a little subpanel off to the side of your main. There are even models that will protect your incoming phone and TV from surges too. IIRC, you're supposed to mount them as close as possible to the main breaker with as short leads as possible. kid sinister fucked around with this message at 03:59 on Jul 27, 2018 |
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Jul 27, 2018 03:53
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Square D has one that just needs a knockout, not even a subpanel. https://www.schneider-electric.us/en/product-range-presentation/61969-square-d-hepd80-home-electronics-protective-device/
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Jul 27, 2018 04:52
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Pretty sure that square D one only protects one breaker though. I looked at a really similar one at a distributor's and it's meant for the handy man to install, basically. You get a knockout, mount the device and then wire it inline with a single breaker. The real benefit is they come with some kind of insurance/warranty that will reimburse you if they fail and it knocks out whatever you're trying to protect. The downside is you have to pick your circuits carefully.
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Jul 27, 2018 20:09
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We're planning on remodeling our kitchen this winter and currently the entire kitchen is run off one 20a breaker. While it's nice out I want to upgrade to a larger breaker panel (all slots currently filled) with a 100a main (currently 60a). My tenant's (I live in a multi family house) breaker panel is the size I want to upgrade too and it also has a 100a main. Both panels are fed by the same gauge wires (there are two meters, I compared for reference). My issue is whether or not to call the electric company and have them turn the power off while I do the swap or just do it myself and try to come up with a story about how the lock thing came off. A while ago we had an electrician come out and do an inspection on our service from the pole for reasons not worth explaining and he said if he was to touch anything from the meter back then the power company wants the whole thing brought up to their standards (code too?) which he said would be heaps of money. Basically it would require moving both meters to the back of the house since currently they are on the side and only have 1 foot of clearance before they are on my neighbors property (close together city living). Which apparently they don't like to have anymore? If it were to get moved to the back of the house it would look like garbage too since it would have to snake from the 3rd story peak around some doors and windows all the way down to grade and then into the basement and then another 60 feet through the basement to get to the panels since they were over where it used to be connected to the house. And that potential scenario is what I would like to avoid. Would the electric company want me to move the meters if I ask them to turn the power off for a few hours while I swap the panel out and if so what is a good excuse to tell them the lock fell off?
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Jul 27, 2018 22:54
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Don't gently caress with the PoCo seal if you value your sanity and for drat sure don't try to pull a meter yourself that is literally the worst idea anyone has posted in this entire thread
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Jul 27, 2018 23:02
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I am 100% serious when I say the fact that you would even suggest that means you should not ever attempt to DIY anything because you will die
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Jul 27, 2018 23:10
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knowonecanknow posted:We're planning on remodeling our kitchen this winter and currently the entire kitchen is run off one 20a breaker. While it's nice out I want to upgrade to a larger breaker panel (all slots currently filled) with a 100a main (currently 60a). My tenant's (I live in a multi family house) breaker panel is the size I want to upgrade too and it also has a 100a main. Both panels are fed by the same gauge wires (there are two meters, I compared for reference). My issue is whether or not to call the electric company and have them turn the power off while I do the swap or just do it myself and try to come up with a story about how the lock thing came off. Call the PoCo and ask them for a meter spot, explain what you want to do, etc. If you can meet the person at your property to explain to them your goals they can help you out with what it will actually require. The gauge of wire from the pole to the meter are sized way differently than from the meter to the rest of your house. I went 60A->200A aerial and the only thing that changed was from the weatherhead back to my house. The pole wire from weatherhead->pole didn't get touched save for the splice. And tampering with the tamper-evident tag can be construed as a crime. Here in CA it starts at a misdemeanor. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN§ionNum=498
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Jul 27, 2018 23:20
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H110Hawk posted:Call the PoCo and ask them for a meter spot, explain what you want to do, etc. If you can meet the person at your property to explain to them your goals they can help you out with what it will actually require. The gauge of wire from the pole to the meter are sized way differently than from the meter to the rest of your house. I went 60A->200A aerial and the only thing that changed was from the weatherhead back to my house. The pole wire from weatherhead->pole didn't get touched save for the splice. Thanks for the info!
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Jul 27, 2018 23:39
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knowonecanknow posted:Would the electric company want me to move the meters if I ask them to turn the power off for a few hours while I swap the panel out and if so what is a good excuse to tell them the lock fell off? I'm a service guy for a POCO. It's hard to imagine they would be so overbearing for a panel swap.... But it may be the city and not the POCO that actually requires moving away from the property line or whatever it is. The correct course would have you pulling an electrical permit and scheduling an inspection before reconnection, however.
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Jul 28, 2018 02:26
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autism ZX spectrum posted:The downside is you have to pick your circuits carefully. I think the web site for the Square D unit is strongly suggesting that these are intended for use on circuits powering things that don't use standard plugs and thus aren't compatible with standard plug-in style surge protection. Major appliances and the like, things that tend to have their own dedicated circuits making the choice fairly easy. As I read it they're implying that traditional plug-in or power strip style surge protection is a better choice for your TVs, computers, and small appliances. edit: I'm wrong, the manual shows Qwijib0 is correct. wolrah fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jul 28, 2018 |
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Jul 28, 2018 16:49
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autism ZX spectrum posted:Pretty sure that square D one only protects one breaker though. I looked at a really similar one at a distributor's and it's meant for the handy man to install, basically. You get a knockout, mount the device and then wire it inline with a single breaker. The real benefit is they come with some kind of insurance/warranty that will reimburse you if they fail and it knocks out whatever you're trying to protect. The downside is you have to pick your circuits carefully. It protects the whole panel-- it's wired in parallel (like all the other circuits) and provides a low impedance path to ground to shunt the current there instead of any other circuits.
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Jul 28, 2018 17:52
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