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The Human Crouton posted:I tried Vox Populi for the first time last week. It's okay, but it does suffer from poo poo like that. Why does every modder have to throw everything into their mods? I did not need another 65 buildings. Water Mill: cannot be built if a Well is in the city. Increases food production by .25 per population point. Well: cannot be built if a Water Mill is in the city. Increases food production by .20 per population point. Vox Populi has way too much sperg-tier minutiae, and it is just constantly bombarding you with meaningless tiny numbers. Normal civ generally gets it right in that you can micromanage the less-meaningful tiny parts of your empire, but the player basically never has to engage with numbers smaller than 1.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:35
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The White Dragon posted:Water Mill: cannot be built if a Well is in the city. Increases food production by .25 per population point. To be fair, that's just another way of writing 1 per 4 or 5 pop, which you find in vanilla as well.
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Jul 21, 2018 00:38
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Cynic Jester posted:To be fair, that's just another way of writing 1 per 4 or 5 pop, which you find in vanilla as well. Yea but most buildings in the base game are just flat increases, or fairly large percentage increases that you generally never have to have to worry about being <1 (and if it would be, you should probably build something else). Compare to the normal Water Mill, which is just +2 Food, +1 Production, no need for  fractions.While the game will show you fractional numbers out to the hundredths, it's just icing. Every goddamn building in VP does poo poo like this, and because it also retools how population growth and city size works, it expects the player to consider the meaningful difference between one-tenth of a point all the time. Consider Temple of Artemis or Fertility Rites. Nobody actually takes Fertility Rites over other, better pantheons unless they get it late and their options are, like, Fertility Rites vs Dance of the Aurora, and nobody builds Temple of Artemis unless they're doing some weird archer rush poo poo that you really don't need the wonder to pull off, I guess unless you were playing on Deity or something. +10% food is a tiny minor bonus and you don't really think about it. But VP insists that you should, every time you build anything. Fur20 fucked around with this message at 00:49 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 00:43
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Well, I think it rounds down/doesn't give anything until you reach a whole number for a lot of things, but yeah. The library gives an extra science per two pops, or .5 science per pop rounded down, as another example. Then there's Aristocracy, from the Tradition tree, which, besides the +15% to building wonders, gives +1 happiness per 10 citizens, or .1 happiness per pop. (Mind, the wonder bonus is really what you care about there, the happiness is just a nice little bonus because you're presumably going tall if you picked Tradition.) That's not to say that I like what Vox Populi does, mind. I'm not a fan of how a lot of "balance" mods end up remaking the game into their own idea of what it should be either, and some parts in particular are weirdly arbitrary. It has some good parts, but the design philosophy is weird and a lot of things stop feeling Civ-y, for lack of a better way to put it. Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 00:50 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 00:48
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Byzantine posted:Don't get Vox Populi unless you think Egypt's burial tombs getting a bonus from truffles makes sense. 
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Jul 21, 2018 01:10
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I just bought the game during the sale and I'm already 160 hours deep into it. I'm crazy invested in learning to play as all the Civs. Yeah I can tell that the AI is bad but the roleplaying poo poo of being all these leaders is fun as hell. Maybe because I don't leave the house too often, idk.
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Jul 21, 2018 04:04
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Roland Jones posted:That was, as before, the first time I actually used nukes in an MP game. Also the first time I had even seen them in one, this being the second. They probably should be used more often if the game reaches the point they're available, though, because they just wreck things. Civ VI must be getting something right if MP games reach nuke era. Civ V games tended to end with frigates... The White Dragon posted:Water Mill: cannot be built if a Well is in the city. Increases food production by .25 per population point. At least you don't have to worry about actually making that choice because you only get to build one or the other anyway, depending on whether your city is next to a river or not. The numbers are annoying, but only because there's so many of them and it's hard to get a sense of where one building falls in the grand scheme of things. It doesn't really matter to me whether it's a fraction or a whole number, what i want to know is: is the number good?? Is there a better building? Is there a building that unlocks a building that is better? Because there's so many loving buildings, it either takes an arseload of time to find out, an ungodly amount of experience with the game, or a god drat flowchart (I snapped one day and made the loving flowchart) It also bothers me that most buildings do too many things. The Library gives +1 culture, the barracks +1 science - why? It might work thematically, but if every building does a bit of everything, they lose their individual distinction and everything blurs together (not to mention makes it much, much harder to answer the simple questions a player might have throughout the game, such as "I need culture, what do I build to get it"). Speaking of the Barracks, it also gains +2 production when you build an Arena (as does the Forge and Armoury). That makes the Arena a very powerful build in your military cities, but it also makes it powerful (+6 hammers!!) in every other city when Barracks and Armouries become cheap enough to spam everywhere. It's bad design, because it's encouraging homogeneity in cities, and it adds another complexity that is difficult for the player to keep track of. That said, I really like that every luxury resource gets a bonus from some building somewhere. Yeah they don't make sense, and it's difficult to reference (my flow chart has a second page for a reason), but it encourages me to take a given city in a particular direction when there's 2 or more of a certain luxury about, and it makes the game a little more interesting. Building fatigue aside, I love voxpop to death. The diplo units, extra city-state quests, the overhauled happiness system and the corporations all make it worth it to me Microplastics fucked around with this message at 08:45 on Jul 21, 2018 |
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Jul 21, 2018 08:41
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Also Tradition is super-powerful, possibly even moreso than it was before
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Jul 21, 2018 09:03
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Joined the inner sea game, now that I have a Windows machine to do it on. <.<
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Jul 21, 2018 09:09
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Roland Jones posted:That was, as before, the first time I actually used nukes in an MP game. Also the first time I had even seen them in one, this being the second. They probably should be used more often if the game reaches the point they're available, though, because they just wreck things. Actually, I only have a nuke every five turns or so, but since that's the time it takes to clean that poo poo up, it seems to work out nicely. But yes: the current Nippon-Romanum prosperity sphere is expanding as planned. For keeping the Egyptian zealots as bay, we're willing to cut Alexander a deal. What a friend indeed! If it makes the whole thing worse, those five million (now-vaporized) knights could've overrun me five times over some thirty turns ago. お先に失礼します
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Jul 21, 2018 09:19
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Civ VI must be getting something right if MP games reach nuke era. Civ V games tended to end with frigates... No one has enough production in Civ VI for early wars that wipe everyone out.
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Jul 21, 2018 15:58
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I have murdered the poo poo out of people in early wars, myself. For some reason a lot of people don't seem to even try, though. Edit: Ah, that wipe everyone out, no, haven't seen that happen "early" yet in MP. Actually, I don't think I've seen a conquest victory in MP at all, despite people here talking about that being the "easiest" way to win; religious and scientific are what I tend to see.
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Jul 22, 2018 01:56
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Roland Jones posted:I have murdered the poo poo out of people in early wars, myself. For some reason a lot of people don't seem to even try, though. To be fair, they're talking about single player, where the army requirements for conquering the world are significantly lower by a few orders of magnitude than MP.
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Jul 22, 2018 11:42
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This is what a cultural victory looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XStvwK6yKvs
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Jul 25, 2018 08:13
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:Civ VI must be getting something right if MP games reach nuke era. Civ V games tended to end with frigates... It's kind of amazing how powerful frigates are in Civ 5. When I was playing MP, almost every game with an ocean would feature somebody building a half dozen frigates and just blowing another civ out of the game. And the only contemporaneous counter to frigates is having even more frigates, so there's really no strategy to avoid it! It got so bad that I stopped settling coastal cities just so I couldn't be besieged from the ocean.
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Jul 25, 2018 18:04
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Speaking of, I'm still waiting for the CIV5 GMR game to fill up. More invites here: http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=6ba09289-4f99-4aa6-be44-10c481d0be86 http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=e2244943-8913-4f05-8cd0-bf0988334935 http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=d6297971-31d4-4793-a28d-b9f92c467dac http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=7a78caca-baa6-4bfa-8b63-cc0af2ac4448 http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=7016c135-67ad-4ce8-adf0-ba2d7ceb154e
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Jul 25, 2018 18:17
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nrook posted:It's kind of amazing how powerful frigates are in Civ 5. When I was playing MP, almost every game with an ocean would feature somebody building a half dozen frigates and just blowing another civ out of the game. And the only contemporaneous counter to frigates is having even more frigates, so there's really no strategy to avoid it! It got so bad that I stopped settling coastal cities just so I couldn't be besieged from the ocean. note to self: build lots of frigates. Frigates upgrading to Battleships in Civ VI is also a pretty special time on the tech tree.
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Jul 25, 2018 18:40
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onesixtwo posted:note to self: build lots of frigates. As is getting +1 range at the bottom of the promotion tree.
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Jul 26, 2018 01:51
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Any news or peep on if/when we’re getting a second expansion? That’s been the CIV way since 3 and I want more stuff to do and nations to do it with.
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Jul 26, 2018 19:37
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How did the last one sell?
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Jul 26, 2018 20:41
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Hey Midsummer Goons, as our game is sorta winding down, I was wondering, perhaps instead of playing a turn everyday, perhaps we can organize a kind of weekly block of say, 3 hours of steady multiplayer?
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Jul 27, 2018 09:10
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Last time I tried organising that there weren't many takers, but worth trying again I made a google sheet for the purpose: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zZJLBNDtAJjA2Uzbmx_YXbia2lS4bUod9TVAWkYud8M/edit#gid=0
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Jul 27, 2018 09:33
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I've added my times, I'm going to interpret the data and pose: Sunday somewhere? I'm sure we can get Roland, Byznat and Ibntumart as well.
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Jul 27, 2018 10:03
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I think Sunday should be doable for me. I'll work on adding times to the chart later; need to check some schedule stuff first.
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Jul 27, 2018 21:53
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I added times for the weekend. I don't know what my schedule's like next week, so leaving it blank for now.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:30
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How should I be expanding? I'm still used to 5 where I only ever had 4 cities around for most of the game. Is there a certain turn I should be aiming get my second city?
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Aug 1, 2018 04:35
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skooma512 posted:How should I be expanding? I'm still used to 5 where I only ever had 4 cities around for most of the game. My rule of thumb is to make your initial expansion plan by grabbing up all the luxury/strategic resources in reach and build up from there.
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Aug 1, 2018 06:47
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skooma512 posted:How should I be expanding? I'm still used to 5 where I only ever had 4 cities around for most of the game. I've been watching a youtuber who plays on deity and he is pretty much always expanding if he's able to. Go wide as gently caress.
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Aug 1, 2018 07:11
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Updated to both since I bought the expansion
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Aug 1, 2018 08:15
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Yeah, I've found crawling empires propped up by internal trade and CASH MONEY wins pretty much any game. Cree are great for learning that.
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Aug 1, 2018 09:11
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The CivGoons Steam group that was used for the multiplayer games back in the day still exists. If anyone wants admin rights to that to post announcements and organize events in Steam and thinks having that would help them in the MP games, just PM me and I'll give you the privileges to it so it won't go to waste. Using the Events-function, posting reminders, and having the mutual chat room might help. You can also invite people to a game from the group without having to friend request everyone. The mumble server is down nowadays, but there is a discord where space can be made for Civ nerds if need be. https://steamcommunity.com/groups/goonciv Vahakyla fucked around with this message at 09:44 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 09:41
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skooma512 posted:How should I be expanding? I'm still used to 5 where I only ever had 4 cities around for most of the game. The two general build patterns I see most often are either: Scout, slinger, builder, settler Or Slinger, slinger, slinger, settler Or occasionally some in-between variation. Top version is more builder oriented, bottom version is meant for an archer rush. ~6-7 cities seems to be a good expansion target for first 100 turns. More is better, but building that many settlers is a very high cost; it's more efficient to try to take a city off the AI (or a city state) instead. The number of troops it takes to defend your expansion is about the same as the number of troops it takes to rush a neighbor before walls, so if you do it right it's basically a free city. R&F is a little more tall-friendly and with the audience chamber building you can be reasonably successful with 4-5 good cities, but that's more of a Plan B. EDIT: Generally though, unless there are prime spots you need to stake out before the AI, settler spam can wait until you hit Early Empire and/or State Workforce. Getting the ancestral hall, Magnus's Logistics promotion, or the +50% settler production policy in place makes your settlers a lot more efficient so it can be worth it to wait for most of your settlers. Make 1-2 early, forward settle, then go full settler spam to backfill after you've built up a little. the holy poopacy fucked around with this message at 13:45 on Aug 1, 2018 |
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Aug 1, 2018 13:30
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I'm starting a new random game as Peter... from the startup screen it seems like his abilities are being a loser (being behind on science, or having to use tundra tiles). I hope this isn't going to be dull!
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Aug 6, 2018 14:28
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Russia is amazing, and neither of those abilities have been relevant to me in the MP game I'm playing them in. You claim a million tiles with every city you found, and your lavras result in absurd amounts of GWAM points and make it extremely hard to compete with you in culture. Meanwhile, cossacks are brutal and will wreck people and make it really hard to invade you while they're relevant. The trade route thing shouldn't come up if you play well [Edit: In MP games, at least; as pointed out below, in SP, playing on harder difficulties means you can't not be behind there for a while], and the tundra one, well, it can make a bad start better, or it can make a city you settled in/near the tundra for some reason (claiming a particular resource, or maybe building St. Basil's Cathedral and/or the Amundsen-Scott Research Station or something) actually not too lovely. But really, lavras, cossacks, and claiming all the tiles are where it's at.
Roland Jones fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 14:36
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Marmaduke! posted:I'm starting a new random game as Peter... from the startup screen it seems like his abilities are being a loser (being behind on science, or having to use tundra tiles). I hope this isn't going to be dull! Pete's ability turns tundra into plains with bonus faith. Only problem is you can't farm it, but tundra hills/forests/luxuries are actually great tiles for Russia. You're still probably not going to want to go full tundra but you can get a lot of mileage out of cities on the border of the tundra, and if you get a good spot for St. Basil's you can get a legit supercity. His trade route bonus is quite good in single player because at any reasonable difficulty you will be behind on science, since the AI has a head start and you'll probably be doing more lopsided research than most of the AIs. So the bonus means you'll catch up that much faster. The downside is that you'll probably be catching up anyhow by the time you're in position to really exploit it, but if you're doing a deep dive you can still rake in a shitton of science out of it. Those two abilities alone are good enough to make Russia a middling good civ for single player, and as pointed out those aren't even the good parts of Russia.
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Aug 6, 2018 15:00
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Good advices, thanks. I think -as ever - it was the interface that threw me a bit, I was a bit put off by all the text on the Sean Bean Load-o-screen talking about the two weaker abilities, while it just basically lists the Lavra and Cossack, which doesn't emphasise anything new/different about them. I definitely appreciate my new cities having extra land to them, though, particularly because I have a couple in some weird spots thanks to capturing some settlers from barbarians.
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Aug 6, 2018 17:39
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There's still some slots open in the Civ 5 game, and I'm sure some goons were interested but haven't joined yet. Elias_Maluco, Zulily Zoetrope, are you in already? (not sure who's who) We've got 5 which is a good enough number but the more the better!
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Aug 6, 2018 18:08
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JeremoudCorbynejad posted:There's still some slots open in the Civ 5 game, and I'm sure some goons were interested but haven't joined yet. Hey, I do want it. Can you please explain again how do I join? Also, Im play on linux. I hope is not a problem
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Aug 6, 2018 18:43
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I don't think that'll be a problem - you don't really need the desktop app (though it'll be a lot easier if you do get it, so give it a try): http://multiplayerrobot.com/Download (sign in with your steam credentials) Other than that, everything should be compatible. Here's an invite link to the game itself: http://multiplayerrobot.com/Game/Join/26986?token=6eff71fd-4ba1-4313-aff3-5d4da626c5ea (make sure not to pick a Civ - we're all gonna go random)
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Aug 6, 2018 20:33
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I'm absolutely in trouble for this Civ V game. I'm so far from my last full Civ V game played I'll be looking for the districts on the tech tree.
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Aug 6, 2018 21:01
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