|
zoux posted:Oh man let's square away the broad strokes of representative casting before we get into colorism. Okay whitey
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:06
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
I guess it is down to Dredd now to be the most juggled show never to actually enter production?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:30
|
|
|
Hey now, dredd has a pilot script written and everything!!
site fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jul 26, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:35
|
|
|
zoux posted:Oh man let's square away the broad strokes of representative casting before we get into colorism. The Discourse cannot handle it. Like I said, I wouldn't put up a fight over the Sunspot casting but I can see why someone would. Frankly colorism is the most important part of representation. The kids are looking to be represented by characters who look like them, the rest is acting. It's always a bonus when an actor shares a background with the character they're playing because it can add a layer of understanding but if they do they're job right we can believe the rest. What I'm saying is Cliff Curtis was a better choice for his role in training day than a white Mexican would have been.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:47
|
|
|
site posted:Hey now, dredd has a pilot script written and everything!! I look forward to reading the official announcement of casting in my senior years. 
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 16:52
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Like I said, I wouldn't put up a fight over the Sunspot casting but I can see why someone would. Frankly colorism is the most important part of representation. The kids are looking to be represented by characters who look like them, the rest is acting. It's always a bonus when an actor shares a background with the character they're playing because it can add a layer of understanding but if they do they're job right we can believe the rest. My advice would be not to go along with whats acceptable to talk about re: race from the 40yo white man from texas who once got banned twice in 10 minutes for accusing a poster of not being black, and the other poster responding with this  Hes a nazi playing at being woke
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:02
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Like I said, I wouldn't put up a fight over the Sunspot casting but I can see why someone would. Frankly colorism is the most important part of representation. The kids are looking to be represented by characters who look like them, the rest is acting. It's always a bonus when an actor shares a background with the character they're playing because it can add a layer of understanding but if they do they're job right we can believe the rest. Yeah, I was just acknowledging that once you get past casting an actor with a similar ethnic background, then the discussion becomes more complicated and granular. It's a huge issue of contention among minority communities so it's not really for white people to get into, which is what I mean by "the discourse can't handle it". Take casting East Asian characters: is it important to make sure that you cast the exact nationality/ethnicity of the character or is just the representation of an East Asian enough? For example, in Fresh off the Boat, the characters are all of Taiwanese descent, but of the actors playing them, only Constance Wu is Taiwanese. The rest are of mainland Chinese descent, except for Randall Park who is Korean. I read somewhere that for most Asian actors, with the paucity of roles available, just having East Asian representation is enough right now and we can drill down on actual nationalities once the broader problem of Asian casting representation is solved. I'm sure that's not a universal opinion among fans of East Asian descent, I bet there are plenty of Taiwanese-descended people who wouldn't like to be described as Chinese, but I think that's a debate for that community to have and they don't really need white people to help. Same with Native American casting, there's a big loving cultural difference between a Cherokee and a Ojibwe, but Native American actors play members of different tribes all the time. So, it's a complicated issue and since we still haven't mastered representation at the most basic level, it might be getting too far ahead of ourselves at this present moment. That is to say, my opinion is that for now we should focus on, like you say, getting the look right so fans can see characters that they can ID with (more than white characters anyway).
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
I can't speak for other groups, but when it comes to Latinx stuff, as a Puerto Rican who has lived in a mostly Hispanic/Black community my whole life, racism in Latinx communities is identical to the more typical racism you see from white communities, right down to language used and beliefs. And personally, I feel like I have noticed more people IDing as "white" Hispanic or "white" Latinx in the past 10 or so years than before. I don't even recall it being a thing before that. I remember having to fill out forms and being annoyed that Hispanic/Latino didn't even have a check box. Last time I did jury duty there were check boxes for white and non-white Hispanic/Latino. So I can see how casting Latinx roles can be every bit as troubling as other roles when it comes to matters of whitewashing. You don't see almost any dark skin or black Latinx celebs. I didn't know Charlie Sheen was Latino until I was almost out of high school, because he changed his name since he passed for white.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:26
|
|
|
site posted:My advice would be not to go along with whats acceptable to talk about re: race from the 40yo white man from texas who once got banned twice in 10 minutes for accusing a poster of not being black, and the other poster responding with this Do not import this poo poo into this thread. This conversation ends now.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:38
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:I didn't know Charlie Sheen was Latino until I was almost out of high school, because he changed his name since he passed for white. Is it really passing if your grandfather was born in Spain?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 17:41
|
|
|
howe_sam posted:Is it really passing if your grandfather was born in Spain? Fair enough, though to be fair, plenty of Spanish born people also have North African blood, so they aren't just plain ol' white Europeans. That's kind of the issue with being Latinx. There is so much mixing but people still want to just boil things down to skin color or "actually, my ancestors were from Spain aka Europe". Very frustrating to see people wanting to split things into skin color. Like, my dad was harrased because he is a darker skin Hispanic man who had an afro in the 70s, and when he served in the military back then in the South he was denied service in places, told to leave bars, and called the n word. They also didn't take kindly to him being with my mom, who was also Hispanic, but pale as hell because they thought they were an interracial couple. Then I come out pretty light skinned but I guess I look Hispanic enough because there have been tons of times where people assumed I didn't speak English (I actually don't speak Spanish.) So I have kind of always been in a weird place.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:01
|
|
|
Sheen and Estevez are Hispanic, not Latinx. Not that the distinction matters in the slightest to racists.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:09
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Fair enough, though to be fair, plenty of Spanish born people also have North African blood, so they aren't just plain ol' white Europeans. That's kind of the issue with being Latinx. There is so much mixing but people still want to just boil things down to skin color or "actually, my ancestors were from Spain aka Europe". Very frustrating to see people wanting to split things into skin color. Like, my dad was harrased because he is a darker skin Hispanic man who had an afro in the 70s, and when he served in the military back then in the South he was denied service in places, told to leave bars, and called the n word. They also didn't take kindly to him being with my mom, who was also Hispanic, but pale as hell because they thought they were an interracial couple. Then I come out pretty light skinned but I guess I look Hispanic enough because there have been tons of times where people assumed I didn't speak English (I actually don't speak Spanish.) So I have kind of always been in a weird place. What's up my Hispanic brother??? I've had issues since I am dark like my mom. I'm half Puerto Rican and half white. I really identify as Puerto Rican because I'm dark. I'm also really bad at Spanish
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:11
|
|
|
I've heard that this is a real issue in Mexico (at least, maybe other Latin Am. countries as well) where TV stars are overwhelmingly lighter-skinned than the rest of the population.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:Sheen and Estevez are Hispanic, not Latinx. Hispanic people are also Latin. zoux posted:I've heard that this is a real issue in Mexico (at least, maybe other Latin Am. countries as well) where TV stars are overwhelmingly lighter-skinned than the rest of the population. I don't think you need the "Latin" in front of America there.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:13
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:Sheen and Estevez are Hispanic, not Latinx. I think you'll find plenty of members of both communities don't make much of a distinction between the two anymore either. There has been plenty of debate and discussion over it. Personally, I feel like the distinction is barely worth making anymore, and most people I know of similar background just use the two interchangeably. The only exception is usually in reference to Brazillians. I've seen people explain it as "all Hispanics are Latinx, but not all Latinx are Hispanic." Whether or not that is "technically true" seems kind of unimportant to me based on how common usage tends to work. I've met literally one person in my life that actually objected to using the wrong label (she was Mexican) and I don't even remember which one she preferred anymore (it was 8 years ago.) pubic works project posted:What's up my Hispanic brother??? Ha, sup. Unfortunately for me, I think I am the only person in my entire family that is horrible at Spanish. Even my sister speaks it fluently. I dunno what happened. zoux posted:I've heard that this is a real issue in Mexico (at least, maybe other Latin Am. countries as well) where TV stars are overwhelmingly lighter-skinned than the rest of the population. Yeah I remember seeing a bunch of stuff about the percentage of the actors on Mexican TV that are white vs the percentage of the population, but hell if I can remember where. It was probably linked on social media at some point.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:17
|
|
|
Hispanic is "from a country where they speak Spanish". Latinx is "Also Portugese" Apparently it ends up being regional. One coast prefers one, one the other. I forget which.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 18:20
|
|
|
This kind of reminds me of one of the subtexts in Luke Cage season 2. There was a clear bias against Bushmasters family and power base as they were immigrant Jamacians, not native born African-Americans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 19:01
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:This kind of reminds me of one of the subtexts in Luke Cage season 2. There was a clear bias against Bushmasters family and power base as they were immigrant Jamacians, not native born African-Americans. Also Mariah being called "Black Mariah" because of her dark skin tone.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 19:06
|
|
|
Aphrodite posted:Hispanic is "from a country where they speak Spanish". Latinx is "Also Portugese"
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 19:15
|
|
|
Yeah Brazil is neither but would be ethnically similar to Latin America if only through regional natives. Wait what is the official name of the people of South and Central America who were here before the Spanish?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 20:08
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Wait what is the official name of the people of South and Central America who were here before the Spanish? There's a hundred or so different peoples in South and Central America who were here before the Spanish, bud.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 20:18
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah Brazil is neither but would be ethnically similar to Latin America if only through regional natives. Native Americans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 20:19
|
|
|
Cythereal posted:There's a hundred or so different peoples in South and Central America who were here before the Spanish, bud. Yeah, no poo poo. I meant an umbrella term like "East Asian" or "Eastern European" because... Aphrodite posted:Native Americans. ...Doesn't seem accurate enough, like do we consider Inuit under the Native American umbrella?
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 21:11
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah, no poo poo. I meant an umbrella term like "East Asian" or "Eastern European" because... In Canada yes and no. Overall inuit are basically one of three recognized Indigenous people along with First Nations and Metis. But for some purposes they are seperate.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 21:59
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah, no poo poo. I meant an umbrella term like "East Asian" or "Eastern European" because... up here in alaska we distinguish Alaska Native tribes and Native American/First Nations, but also full disclosure I havent worked with many native people or the corps in a couple years to have discussions about it, and i cant say ive broached the subject with my neighbor so that mightve changed
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 22:10
|
|
|
Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah, no poo poo. I meant an umbrella term like "East Asian" or "Eastern European" because... It was mostly a joke about how the US forgets America is a whole continent, but also yes mostly.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 23:04
|
|
|
Oh definitely. But I do like the sound of First Nation which I heard for the first time on Canadian radio this year. As of a couple years ago the legal term in America was still Indian, as in "I'm in law school specializing in Indian Law" I was just curious if there was a South American version of that I also hadn't heard of.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 23:31
|
|
|
It seems like they mostly use Indigenous.
|
|
#
?
Jul 26, 2018 23:52
|
|
|
zoux posted:Yeah I don't know why it was so hard to get this thing going Nick Stahl was in the original and had a major drug meltdown shortly after wrapping shooting so they were waiting him out and he never got clean and it hosed them over. Sounds like that pilot was incredible too so it's a shame. The second pilot is supposedly the worst thing ever.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 02:20
|
|
|
twistedmentat posted:This kind of reminds me of one of the subtexts in Luke Cage season 2. There was a clear bias against Bushmasters family and power base as they were immigrant Jamacians, not native born African-Americans. It wasn't subtext. It was full on text. In fact in one of the episodes, one of the gangsters goes into a full on rant about native born African-Americans over ones who are originalyfrom Latin America or Jamaica. Sgt. Politeness posted:Yeah Brazil is neither but would be ethnically similar to Latin America if only through regional natives. I always thought the term was Meso-American.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 12:51
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:It wasn't subtext. It was full on text. Pretty sure that's a historical term for pre-Columbian Mexico and Central America. I don't think it's used in any modern sense. For instance, in Brazil I've always heard of it as "indigenous" for the extant tribes in the rainforests.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 13:52
|
|
|
ToastyPotato posted:Nah, just hate bigots instead. At least that is more productive. Or support her other work, or in general. I say this because if we go down that path more companies will start using this sort of thing as marketing, if they haven't already. For reference, there is a well known story about a video game company (can't remember which right now) in the 90s that manufactured outrage about their own game in the press to sell copies, and it worked. It was featured in multiple countdown lists a while back, I am just totally blanking. It might have actually happened more than once. He's right, once you're all done being dicks. There are definite cases of over exaggerating the amount of/importance of 'troll' posts to create interest or push an agenda. The Ghostbusters remake comes to mind. There were definitely people out there acting like mysoginistic babies, but instead of ignoring them, Sony built their whole marketing campaign on it. And everyone with a website went along for the ride. I mean how many times on this forum alone has some one said 'I can't wait for the racists/sexists to get butthurt about this' before any one actually says anything racist? The poster aboves not even saying this actress isn't being targeted, which she is. He's saying companies are manipulating outrage on social media as a marketing tool, which they absolutely are.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 17:50
|
|
|
Except his dumb rear end point is based on thinking the timing is suspect, when the drat trailer just came out.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 18:12
|
|
|
Ignoring internet nazis is pretty easy to suggest when youre not the one getting death threats just for being in movie/tv show
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 18:16
|
|
|
"There's no such thing as bad publicity" is a saying that is older than most of us here. To think that billion dollar businesses who rely on publicity don't at least partially believe that would be incredibly naive. My poor example (which I am almost positive was actually about the original GTA now) was meant to show that even in the 90s, before social media and the current internet, companies were more than willing to ride the wave of outrage to make money, to the point that one company actually got caught fabricating outrage. I didn't mean that anyone was lying about the current harassment facing various actors. I just wasn't clear enough. Ghostbusters is a pretty good example too. Last Jedi is an even more recent example. There were tons of legit criticisms of Jedi, but the online narrative was heavily pushed into supporting the actors and eventually the director himself who were getting harassed. Many influencers in the geek community, some part of big websites, were tweeting and/or retweeting messages that essentially read as "if you didn't like TLJ then you are a bad person." That poo poo killed my interest in Star Wars (and social media) and I suspect it did for others as well, if Solo is any indication. Also pretty much all the SW Youtubes I follow went silent. The only SW videos YT would give me was misogynistic alt right videos about "SJWs RUINING STAR WARS!" for what seemed like months. Only now are my channels back it seems. Sorry to dig it back up, I just wanted some final clarification. I really didn't intend to make people so upset. Aphrodite posted:Except his dumb rear end point is based on thinking the timing is suspect, when the drat trailer just came out. It's more that I am worried that more companies are going to use this sort of thing whenever they can, which I think is lovely. What I don't understand is why people ITT seem more angry at me for suggesting that a company might exploit people's pain, than they seem to be at the actual pain being caused in the first place. Look at the name calling and outrage my suggestion has caused, vs the response to the actual report of her harassment. ToastyPotato fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jul 27, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 18:18
|
|
|
The Question IRL posted:It wasn't subtext. It was full on text. Oh that's right, and someone calls Bushmaster (i think) about going on about Maroons all the time, but then points out Jamaica didn't gain its independence until the 60s also. I've always preferred the Canadian "First Nations" because it implies that they weren't just savages living in tents shooting arrows at deer, but actually had complex social structures and societies.
|
|
#
?
Jul 27, 2018 19:34
|
|
|
New Iron Fist teaser https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pu5FAWnFRI0
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 11:32
|
|
|
Ok, that looks a little more promising. Only a little, though.
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 14:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 26, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
I'm hopeful. Did they ever go into detail who is running/working on this season?
|
|
#
?
Jul 28, 2018 16:33
|
|