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The idea that nothing has changed in 1200 years or whatever annoys me so much. It clearly did, since every jurisdiction has their own language that's close but not quite identical. And then there's the "G".... E: And we have a T.O. lodge here that does the work like it existed in the 1880s, but that's not really "traditional" either. Let's go back to the 1700s and make me a happy Colonial!
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May 28, 2018 12:53
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Ohio has an explicit “don’t gently caress around and haze guys” callout in the ritual book plus a verbal reminder the WM has to read off to members before degrees, so it’s definitely not the same as it used to be. To be clear, I think that’s a good thing, but it’s definitely changed.
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May 28, 2018 17:14
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I've had conversations with several seasoned masons around here that would love to go back to colonial style masonry; do away with lodge buildings and meet in taverns, do away with masonic prohibition, and bring back festive boards. I'm not a drinker personally, but I would welcome the change. At least, until things devolved into political arguments, and the shooting started.
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May 28, 2018 22:17
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The politics starts after the Masonic meeting closes, and the Sons of Liberty meeting opens.
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May 29, 2018 01:35
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Cholmondeley posted:do away with masonic prohibition, and bring back festive boards. Do you have a prohibition there? Here (Finland) after the ceremonies are over you have what is called "brotherly dinner" where there is food and alcohol served (though obviously you can choose not to have any).
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May 29, 2018 06:53
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Each state in the U.S. has their own Grand Lodge, who set the rules. Some states allow alcohol at dinner, and some states, especially in the Bible Belt, do not. I don't know what the national breakdown is, but I would be interested to see it.
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May 30, 2018 00:40
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Cholmondeley posted:Each state in the U.S. has their own Grand Lodge, who set the rules. Some states allow alcohol at dinner, and some states, especially in the Bible Belt, do not. I don't know what the national breakdown is, but I would be interested to see it. Some years old but probably not much change. Apparently owning a liquor license is or at least was disqualifying for membership in NC and Arkansas http://web.archive.org/web/20041011031816/http://bessel.org:80/liquor.htm
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May 30, 2018 03:32
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There’s no Grand Lodge of America, because when masonry came here, there wasn’t really a national jurisdiction of ANYTHING, so each state’s GL is sovereign. It leads to some nastiness when states disagree on big social issues, like gay marriage.
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May 30, 2018 16:25
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shame on an IGA posted:Some years old but probably not much change. Apparently owning a liquor license is or at least was disqualifying for membership in NC and Arkansas
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May 30, 2018 16:27
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Yesterday I was raised to the 33rd. My last name is "Prins" which is Dutch for Prince. It lead to some confusion on my side. Either way, Rosicrucian 33rd seems to be different from Scottish Rite 33rd? To be honest, I don't know anymore other than that the symbols spoke to me on many levels, it is what I need in this time of my life.
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May 30, 2018 18:24
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I’m watching Riverdale and there’s a character named Hiram Lodge. Heh.
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Jun 1, 2018 01:48
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COOL CORN posted:Down south there are a number of problematic people. Oh, that's independent of Masonry, but also a part of why I haven't looked into joining. No offense, all the Masons I know personally (present compaany included) aren't assholes, but lodges in the South tend to be...more conservative than I'd want to associate with, if you know what I mean.
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Jun 1, 2018 06:26
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Bad Angus! Bad!
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COOL CORN posted:I’m watching Riverdale and there’s a character named Hiram Lodge. Heh. That was his name in the comics, too. Moose’s last name is Mason, as well.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:02
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Emron posted:That was his name in the comics, too. Moose’s last name is Mason, as well. Ha! I didn't catch Moose's name. Nice.
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Jun 1, 2018 18:11
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Hi Gents, What are your best memorisation techniques? Keen for any advice. Take care.
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Jul 15, 2018 08:19
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Read the lecture in a computer, leaving blanks in your parts. Play it on your commute and speak your parts out loud.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:24
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Frankly surprised to learn there are jurisdictions where copying the lecture in print even electronically or making an audio recording would be allowed.
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Jul 15, 2018 16:45
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Oh yes, after a degree we get the full ritual in a little booklet. But this is the GO of the Netherlands, maybe that is why.
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Jul 15, 2018 18:48
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jrgnsn_tjf posted:Hi Gents, I break the part down into chunks small enough to memorize, usually a sentence or two, sometimes a fragment if the language or phrasing is unusual, and repeat it aloud or silently until I have it memorized. Then I move on to the next chunk and once I'm comfortable with that I'll string them together, focus on the transitional language, then add the next bit and repeat, building a larger and large chain. Usually there's a tipping point where you have enough momentum, so to speak, that it becomes easier. I've often thought there's got to be a better way, but this works for me so I've stuck with it. Also for things where you have a bit of freedom to gesture or in your floor work I'll recite the part while practicing the motions, as it can be a useful cue to memory. e.g. a sweeping hand gesture toward the brethren to indicate universality, touching your chest to indicate a duty to oneself, etc.
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Jul 15, 2018 19:01
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Keetron posted:Oh yes, after a degree we get the full ritual in a little booklet. But this is the GO of the Netherlands, maybe that is why. We have little booklets, but they are in cipher. Impossible to read unless you already half know it at least. It's all mouth to ear to get you to that point. My understanding is that at one point, you could only get the booklet after passing your proficiency in the degree, and it was pretty controversial when it changed to being able to have it as a study aid. And making an audio recording or writing it out in longform would be strictly forbidden, not a single jot or tittle.
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Jul 15, 2018 22:31
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Sub Rosa posted:We have little booklets, but they are in cipher. Impossible to read unless you already half know it at least. It's all mouth to ear to get you to that point. My understanding is that at one point, you could only get the booklet after passing your proficiency in the degree, and it was pretty controversial when it changed to being able to have it as a study aid. And making an audio recording or writing it out in longform would be strictly forbidden, not a single jot or tittle. In the UK we have ritual books, and pretty much everything bar passwords are in there.
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Jul 23, 2018 19:14
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2p1osv0jj8 Anyone planning to watch this?
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Jul 25, 2018 19:59
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Hello Masons. I am thinking about applying to join and I have a few personal questions: I have a bit of a history of acute mental health "episodes". I am very sane 99,9% of the time, but if I have not taken my meds for a considerable while, I can hallucinate. Totally bonkers. Call it acute psychosis, acute schizophrenia, "religious experience" or whatever the diagnosis might be. Does this disqualify me from joining Masonry? All that talk of sound mind and body and such... Note that I do take my medication every day. Lapses are unlikely to occur. Also, in very general terms, is initiation to Masonry a heavily stress-inducing experience, if you can answer that without spoiling anything?  As for religion, my definition and views of God or gods in general may be very different from what is the "norm" among Masons in these parts. If asked about belief in God, I can answer the question with "Yes" and pass honestly, but if the local lodges require belief in afterlife, being Christian or other details like Monotheism, I am not sure what to think. Good enough, or does this vary much between countries to your knowledge? I hear some lodges in Northern Europe can be weird like that, for example. If you need a holy book, does something like Newton's Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica or Euclid's Elements qualify or would I get odd looks, or would I have to pick a Bible or some other? Any holy book would do for me in a pinch, I respect and would defend different religions and religious freedom even if I am not specifically a member of a church. Different books can tell a part of the universal truths in different ways, and can be holy from my perspective. If math and physics is not holy enough though, what is? As I see it, geometry is relevant to a stone worker or architect. Someone said that you need to be a people person to be a Mason. Unfortunately and to my embarrassment I forget names immediately after hearing them, unless I manage to memorize them with some degree of mental effort. I am also quiet to a fault in a group setting and have difficulties socializing unless I am interacting one-on-one with someone, which I usually enjoy. I have no clear idea if I would fit in a lodge well. I would like to. Doing charity and many of the other aspects of Masonry in particular appeal to me. And then there is the issue of time. I am worried that having a baby in the family soon will keep me busy, tired and unable to dedicate my focus to Masonic activities to the extent that may be expected of me. How do you manage a family life with your other duties? I want to be a good father and a good brother too, should I be accepted to join. Can you bring a crying toddler to a lodge on days when there is no other option other than stay away? Is there such a thing as Masonic daycare? A goat pen for babies?  I am still getting my head around the whole "becoming a dad" thing. What is your experience in this regard?Sorry for any ignorance on my part. Thank you for your advice.
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Jul 29, 2018 11:58
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I will answer the parts I feel it is possible for me, as a western european mason, to answer. Everything below is my opinion and it has little value as such. With regards to your mental health, if you take meds and be open about this and still two masons will vouch for you, there should be little problem. Just yes or no is all that is needed here. People who judge you on whatever content your belief has are assholes. Unless you are a furry, then I'll be the judgemental rear end in a top hat. A book is a book is a book. It is not about the book itself or it's content, it is about what it represents at that point in the ritual. Therefor the actual belief in the book is unimportant, you can swear on whatever. Personally I let it be the default bible, no reason to act special in a group I have little knowledge on. Considering you join a brotherhood of men, sociable is a useful trait but not required. It is also an opportunity to practise groups of people as masons are very forgiving. And names... here is a trick: If you are sure you met someone, apologise and ask their name. They will say "Jack" or something and you can reply with "No, I knew that, I meant you last name!" I suck at managing masonry with children as do many others. The lodge should be understanding that you will be present less. In general, I would go further and suggest you wait a few years till the kids can dress themselves before applying. Discuss with the masons who would sign you petition?
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Jul 29, 2018 15:34
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I have only been in for a handful of months, but I feel that I can shed some light on a couple of these. Older members may feel free to correct me. If it helps, I'm based out of Michigan.SlightlyMad posted:Hello Masons. I am thinking about applying to join and I have a few personal questions: I may be wrong on this but my interpretation of the "sound mind and body" bits are that you made the choice to be there of your own free will - i.e. not under duress or anything. Initiation wasn't that stress inducing. Mainly I was nervous about what was going to happen (Spoiler: Nothing even remotely as weird as my imagination was coming up with), but you will be taken care of. And outside of that, the only stress I've run into is trying to remember names. But everyone has been very friendly and ready to jump in at any point to help, including during meetings. Couldn't have asked for a better place to be absolutely clueless. quote:As for religion, my definition and views of God or gods in general may be very different from what is the "norm" among Masons in these parts. If asked about belief in God, I can answer the question with "Yes" and pass honestly, but if the local lodges require belief in afterlife, being Christian or other details like Monotheism, I am not sure what to think. Good enough, or does this vary much between countries to your knowledge? I hear some lodges in Northern Europe can be weird like that, for example. You'll be fine. I doubt they'll inquire pas yes/no. I was told that masons of yore realized that religion and politics were extremely divisive and so decided to have a place NOT to bring them up. quote:If you need a holy book, does something like Newton's Philosophiae Naturalis Principia Mathematica or Euclid's Elements qualify or would I get odd looks, or would I have to pick a Bible or some other? Any holy book would do for me in a pinch, I respect and would defend different religions and religious freedom even if I am not specifically a member of a church. Different books can tell a part of the universal truths in different ways, and can be holy from my perspective. If math and physics is not holy enough though, what is? As I see it, geometry is relevant to a stone worker or architect. Not entirely sure on this one. But I do know that the volume is there to ensure that you're bound to your word. If you make an oath on a sacred volume that you don't obey, then what good is the oath? Masons do love geometry. One guy brought in a book on ancient holy geometric patterns one week and there was a crowd of guys taking a look at it, VERY interested. quote:Someone said that you need to be a people person to be a Mason. Unfortunately and to my embarrassment I forget names immediately after hearing them, unless I manage to memorize them with some degree of mental effort. I am also quiet to a fault in a group setting and have difficulties socializing unless I am interacting one-on-one with someone, which I usually enjoy. I have no clear idea if I would fit in a lodge well. I would like to. Doing charity and many of the other aspects of Masonry in particular appeal to me. I'm sure it helps. I'm a bit reserved in new situations, particularly if I'm confused - which I was, and still am to a lesser extent. Although, and it's hard to imagine (and situations may vary) but I'm not sure I've met a group more willing to help out the new guy. There was some initial awkwardness as I was barely even sure when to sit and stand at the meetings, but I had several people give me their personal number out of the blue and tell me that they'll answer any questions at any time. Making those new relationships might challenge you (like me) no matter what, but they seemed very receptive of the newbie. Even visiting members would come up to me to talk after the meeting. quote:And then there is the issue of time. I am worried that having a baby in the family soon will keep me busy, tired and unable to dedicate my focus to Masonic activities to the extent that may be expected of me. How do you manage a family life with your other duties? I want to be a good father and a good brother too, should I be accepted to join. Can you bring a crying toddler to a lodge on days when there is no other option other than stay away? Is there such a thing as Masonic daycare? A goat pen for babies? Not a father, but a few masons at my lodge are new dads. We meet up for lodge once a month, and attendance is not mandatory. If you become an officer your responsibilities might change but that's your choice, and you'd know by then what you can and cannot do. I don't know if you could bring a child to the meetings. My guess is no but I truly have no idea. I will say, and I'm sure you've come across this somewhere, there was a heavy emphasis on the importance your life duties. Being a Mason is great, but they always say that your primary responsibilities are to your family. If you truly think you're too busy, it couldn't hurt to go to a lodge and meet some people so you have some contacts when you're ready. quote:Sorry for any ignorance on my part. Thank you for your advice. Good luck!
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Jul 29, 2018 16:14
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Thank you, Keetron and BONESAWWWWWW. If others have advice to add, please do. I have now checked this from official sources online: The Freemasons where I live a certain northern European land ask about a belief specifically in "One God" and everlasting life. For me, answers to both are way more complicated and loaded than simple "Yes" would cover, so I will just have to bite my lip and say yes when I am asked. Would seem to rule out some people and their beliefs, however. I can try to avoid going into details about my beliefs, but still I wish they were not that specific. Words, details and oaths matter. Oh well, at least I don't need to lie as such, just not to discuss religion further. Let each believe in their own god, and not get pedantic about defining words. I will ask around the local Masons for people in the lodges I can get to know before applying. If they decide I am worth recommending in the future, I may apply some day. The process should be quite long anyways, so maybe my baby will be bigger before I can become a Mason, should I be accepted. Hoping to call you Brothers in the future.
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Jul 29, 2018 17:24
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SlightlyMad posted:I will just have to bite my lip and say yes when I am asked. My sentiment for you and others who have so many questions about if you are eligible for membership while wondering if you are a suitable candidate is this: first ask if Masonry is a suitable organization for you to join. It isn't a fit for everyone, and that doesn't have to be a negative judgement on those that aren't a fit. You've given us multiple reasons why Masonry may not be for you, what about the reasons you do think it is for you?
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Jul 29, 2018 20:16
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My response to that question was: "That is an acceptable metaphore." We never talked about it since as it was no issue.
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Jul 30, 2018 05:53
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Sub Rosa posted:While I don't think these questions should be posed to an applicant, personally, I also have a strong negative response to hearing you say you would be less than honest in gaining entrance to Masonry. If you read my earlier response, maybe my stance would be clearer, but I will explain: I can honestly say I have a belief in God and "some form" of everlasting life. It is just that when the questions define those things as "One God" specifically and what I can only assume to be a fairly Judeo-Christian view of everlasting life, I have to pick my words carefully to fit the question. Does that answer your concern? No dishonesty intended, just definitions that may differ. To clarify, everlasting life for me is not a traditional view of Heaven. (My definition of Heaven might raise some eyebrows too, haha.) I assume that in a truly infinite universe everything would happen more than once. A state space of possible configurations of energy and matter would wrap around to repeating itself over and over. In a sense, we would live several times, separated by a spacetime interval that approaches infinity. I will not go into detail about my beliefs about God other than they are not in line with usual church teaching either. My wife and I agree that I could use male friends and I would like to take part in Masonry as a path to guide me in life. The charity, esoteric lessons, friendship and traditions seem like what I could enjoy being part of. If I am not accepted for any reason, so be it. I will try anyways and see what happens. Again, thank you for your opinions.
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Jul 30, 2018 07:09
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All I'll weigh in with is, if your perception of god isn't a "being"/Something with a will, you might not get much/be uncomfortable with the content of the ritual (May differ by jurisdiction) But I don't seek to discourage you, just letting you know.
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Jul 30, 2018 08:26
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Dirigibleful posted:All I'll weigh in with is, if your perception of god isn't a "being"/Something with a will, you might not get much/be uncomfortable with the content of the ritual (May differ by jurisdiction) I do not think that aspect will be a problem from my perspective. I do not wish to bring discussion of religion or politics to a Freemason thread any more than necessary, since it is not appropriate. Basically, I would able to pass the questions honestly and fit in, and there seem to be some slight regional differences. I think we agree enough. If one can not discuss politics, are things like environmental issues considered too political? There is an environmental green party for example. Maybe some Freemasons would object to that being discussed in lodge?
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Jul 30, 2018 09:17
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It is not about religion or politics, it is about discussing things that can lead to disrespectful disagreements and those two topics have a tendency to lead to that. What country are you in? If you do not wish to disclose publicly, I have PMs?
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Jul 30, 2018 11:26
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Keetron posted:It is not about religion or politics, it is about discussing things that can lead to disrespectful disagreements and those two topics have a tendency to lead to that.  Keetron, Finland is warm this time of the year.  I am melting into a puddle, how is the Netherlands?
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Jul 30, 2018 13:37
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BONESAWWWWWW posted:Also from Michigan, can confirm this is how our meetings have been going too. Just spotted this. Where's your lodge? I'm from 175
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Jul 30, 2018 14:30
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KillianLett posted:Just spotted this. Not far! I'm from #5.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:27
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BONESAWWWWWW posted:Not far! I'm from #5. Nice! Welcome Brother! If I ever make it up that way, I'll be sure to look you up. If you're going to Grand Lodge next year (It'll be in Ypsi in May), let me know. I should be there and we can sip on some Whiskey and I can complain how things weren't done that way during MY year.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:17
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UGLE just published an official ruling on Freemasonry and gender reassignment. https://www.freemasonrytoday.com/ugle-sgc/ugle/ugle-publishes-its-gender-reassignment-policy quote:The policy outlines that a candidate for admission to Freemasonry under the jurisdiction of UGLE must be a man. Should a person who has undergone gender reassignment and has become a man apply to become a Freemason then his application must be processed in the same way as for any other male candidate. A Freemason who after initiation ceases to be a man does not cease to be a Freemason. Amazing. I'm absolutely blown away by this leap forward by our English brethren.
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Aug 1, 2018 14:34
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Holy poo poo. That’s like the exact opposite of what I was expecting. Awesome.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:04
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I wonder how many US Grand Lodges are about to make themselves clandestine by derecognition of UGLE.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:29
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Paramemetic posted:I wonder how many US Grand Lodges are about to make themselves clandestine by derecognition of UGLE. Makes me glad I moved out of the south. I'd imagine the dinners are going to have HEATED conversation.
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Aug 1, 2018 15:33
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