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I like playing different countries in these paradox games for different gaming experiences and can disassociate playing a game as a country vs the historical actions of the country in question, but maybe I'm a weirdo?
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Jul 28, 2018 15:40
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i mean if you don't play a country because of the mistreatment and atrocities man has committed then uhhh I guess you can play switzerland??
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Jul 28, 2018 16:06
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GrossMurpel posted:How does that work? I can understand wanting to play a nice guy in RPGs but what the gently caress does "Nazi fetishism" have to do with your playthrough of V2? I can understand not wanting to play Nazi Germany because of the ideology too, but this is weird. AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:I like playing different countries in these paradox games for different gaming experiences and can disassociate playing a game as a country vs the historical actions of the country in question, but maybe I'm a weirdo? I'm gonna go with different people are different and not get high and mighty on the internet personally, but maybe I'm a weirdo?
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Jul 28, 2018 16:46
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I could never bring myself to play Nazi Germany in HOI4, but all power to you if you can.
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Jul 28, 2018 16:49
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BigglesSWE posted:I could never bring myself to play Nazi Germany in HOI4, but all power to you if you can. Getting the Nazis kicked out is a lot of fun.
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Jul 28, 2018 16:50
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Senor Dog posted:I'm gonna go with different people are different and not get high and mighty on the internet personally, but maybe I'm a weirdo?  weirdo friend
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Jul 28, 2018 16:55
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I used to use the event code that kills a random minister in HOI2 to get rid of most of the leaders for the USSR and Nazi Germany before starting a game as them. It was an event that would pick a random minister every time you invoked it, but you could just keep triggering it without killing anyone to scramble it until you got who you want. In retrospect it would have been a lot easier to just edit the save files (if Hitler died, you got a big long list of prominent nazi replacements for head of state until you get to some rando resigned generalissimo, which is where I would stop) but I was a dumb teenager.
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Jul 28, 2018 17:16
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never not lol at hoi4's offical take on the great purge being: it was good and necessary
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Jul 28, 2018 17:18
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The Cheshire Cat posted:I feel like what would be interesting is if pops could contribute cash to rebellions rather than just bodies - the number of people that join up to fight would determine the number of units spawned, and the amount of cash dedicated to the cause would determine the quality of those units - basically, they'd try to buy and stockpile goods off the market to produce the best units they can afford for the amount of manpower they have (with attention paid to getting a good mix of artillery/cavalry/infantry if they're able). This could also allow other nations to covertly fund rebel groups, so even a rebellion that's mostly made up of the lower classes could still be dangerous if it's being supported by a rich nation. holy poo poo this is a really good idea
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Jul 28, 2018 17:34
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Raskolnikov38 posted:never not lol at hoi4's offical take on the great purge being: it was good and necessary I remember talking about this in the HoI thread and goons kept trying to tell me how i was wrong to think that and paradox meant none of that at all. If you don't murder the political and military staff you get couped 100% of the times by trotsky and tukhachevsky, how is that not saying that Stalin was right is beyond me. In HoI If you didn't purge the army you'd keep the staff but would lose long term staff quality, while with the purge you'd risk being a mess now and being incredible in the late game. How this wasn't the begining and the end of hoi4's logic is hilarious.
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Jul 28, 2018 20:36
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The purge needs to be an event like the matignon strikes, not something you consciously trigger for the bonuses
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Jul 28, 2018 20:56
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Gamerofthegame posted:i mean if you don't play a country because of the mistreatment and atrocities man has committed then uhhh Switzerland allowed women to vote countrywide in something insane like 1994
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Jul 28, 2018 22:54
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I don't see what's difficult to understand about how despite all countries having their share of shame, role-playing the CSA or an iron-cross nationalist state is a bridge too far for some people. It's not like anyone's saying they should be unplayable.
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Jul 28, 2018 23:40
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Would you not want to play as Belgium because of their Congo Free State atrocities? It seems like pretty much every European colonial power is responsible for unimaginable horrors and the deaths of millions at some point. This makes me wonder though, which Paradox game has the greatest amount of atrocity in it? I know they didn't mention any of the holocaust in HoI 2, which is the last HoI game I played. The whole game is just pushing counters around and painting the map. You can certainly do some hosed up poo poo in CK2, but I've never played any of the EU games or Victoria. When you colonize areas, is it just a number that goes up? Does that area just turn your color and then stuff goes into a trade route back home and that's it? Are there slaves in the CSA in Victoria?
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Jul 29, 2018 00:48
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Kenzie posted:Would you not want to play as Belgium because of their Congo Free State atrocities? It seems like pretty much every European colonial power is responsible for unimaginable horrors and the deaths of millions at some point. This makes me wonder though, which Paradox game has the greatest amount of atrocity in it? I know they didn't mention any of the holocaust in HoI 2, which is the last HoI game I played. The whole game is just pushing counters around and painting the map. You can certainly do some hosed up poo poo in CK2, but I've never played any of the EU games or Victoria. When you colonize areas, is it just a number that goes up? Does that area just turn your color and then stuff goes into a trade route back home and that's it? Are there slaves in the CSA in Victoria? There are slaves in the CSA and one of the policies for colonization is to just slaughter the natives on a province level. Though you don’t have to do that.
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Jul 29, 2018 00:50
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Kenzie posted:Would you not want to play as Belgium because of their Congo Free State atrocities? It seems like pretty much every European colonial power is responsible for unimaginable horrors and the deaths of millions at some point. This makes me wonder though, which Paradox game has the greatest amount of atrocity in it? I know they didn't mention any of the holocaust in HoI 2, which is the last HoI game I played. The whole game is just pushing counters around and painting the map. You can certainly do some hosed up poo poo in CK2, but I've never played any of the EU games or Victoria. When you colonize areas, is it just a number that goes up? Does that area just turn your color and then stuff goes into a trade route back home and that's it? Are there slaves in the CSA in Victoria? it's eu4 all of the atrocity being abstracted away into numbers going up just makes it even more realistically horrific
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Jul 29, 2018 00:52
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The least evil country is to start as an Irish count in CK2 and just stay in Ireland into Stellaris when you transition into a FALGSC star polity that welcomes all, treats all equally, and fights only to protect the weak.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:02
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Kenzie posted:Would you not want to play as Belgium because of their Congo Free State atrocities? It seems like pretty much every European colonial power is responsible for unimaginable horrors and the deaths of millions at some point. This makes me wonder though, which Paradox game has the greatest amount of atrocity in it? I know they didn't mention any of the holocaust in HoI 2, which is the last HoI game I played. The whole game is just pushing counters around and painting the map. You can certainly do some hosed up poo poo in CK2, but I've never played any of the EU games or Victoria. When you colonize areas, is it just a number that goes up? Does that area just turn your color and then stuff goes into a trade route back home and that's it? Are there slaves in the CSA in Victoria? Alternatively you could play as Belgium and not commit horrors so deep and profound that even the incredibly racist Victorians were aghast by staying in Europe. There's a pretty decent middle ground here.
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Jul 29, 2018 01:24
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Kenzie posted:Would you not want to play as Belgium because of their Congo Free State atrocities? It seems like pretty much every European colonial power is responsible for unimaginable horrors and the deaths of millions at some point. This makes me wonder though, which Paradox game has the greatest amount of atrocity in it? I know they didn't mention any of the holocaust in HoI 2, which is the last HoI game I played. The whole game is just pushing counters around and painting the map. You can certainly do some hosed up poo poo in CK2, but I've never played any of the EU games or Victoria. When you colonize areas, is it just a number that goes up? Does that area just turn your color and then stuff goes into a trade route back home and that's it? Are there slaves in the CSA in Victoria? The Victoria games have simulated slavery, yeah. In EU, there's a slaves "trade good" with events establishing the triangle trade. It's all largely abstract, though. Colonization in EU is, well... 
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Jul 29, 2018 01:31
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It’s all 1’s and 0’s. Paradox games shouldn’t give you an existential crisis because you pushed a button on the map painting simulator.
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Jul 29, 2018 02:03
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hopefully one day someone releases a 17th century imperialism simulator that removes all the immoral options
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Jul 29, 2018 02:18
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i wasn't condemning eu4, just commenting on which title has the most atrocities eu4 does by virtue of the period it's depicting, was my point
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Jul 29, 2018 02:39
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:It’s all 1’s and 0’s. Paradox games shouldn’t give you an existential crisis because you pushed a button on the map painting simulator. It shouldn't in the strictest sense, sure, but it's interesting that it does for people for whatever reason, and if someone says they're made uncomfortable by it then it's more productive to question why that might be.
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Jul 29, 2018 02:51
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Beamed posted:Alternatively you could play as Belgium and not commit horrors so deep and profound that even the incredibly racist Victorians were aghast by staying in Europe. There's a pretty decent middle ground here. But if it's all abstracted, you don't really have much of a choice in the matter do you? Aside from just staying home and not colonizing anything at all. Like what he said: Jazerus posted:all of the atrocity being abstracted away into numbers going up just makes it even more realistically horrific Also lol at there being an "attack natives" button. If you're a colonial power, if you don't just slaughter all the natives outright, you have to assume that all sorts of ruthless exploitation is going on. It's not like there's a "brutality" slider that you can push back and forth if you want to be a nice friendly colonial power right? In the late Victorian holocausts of the 1870s onward you had 30-60 million people killed worldwide from being forcibly incorporated into global capitalist economic and political structures. Does EU4 have events for the genocide of native Americans? Or events about them dying off from disease brought by the Europeans? I've played a million hours of CK2 but I know nothing about these other games. I would love to get into them but I'm mad that I missed the Steam summer sale and there's so much drat DLC and I was looking at Arumba's EU4 tutorial series on Youtube and it's 136 episodes long and 
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Jul 29, 2018 03:13
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Kenzie posted:But if it's all abstracted, you don't really have much of a choice in the matter do you? Aside from just staying home and not colonizing anything at all. Like what he said: there is a brutality slider! you can choose to kill the natives, trade with the natives, or live peacefully with the natives (i.e. the british approach, the french approach, or the ahistorical approach) however that doesn't stop your colonial nations from culture converting all of their territory and leaves open the whole wide range of abstracted atrocity in conquered territory as opposed to colonized territory. at least it's better than the old days where the game assumed that if your troops went through an uncolonized province, you wanted them to kill all of the natives
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Jul 29, 2018 03:22
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Going to play Eu4 as antiimperialist reformed opm HRE. Autonomous 1 prov vassal swarms beating down majors to free cores anytime they try and grow.
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Jul 29, 2018 03:39
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RestRoomLiterature- posted:It’s all 1’s and 0’s. Paradox games shouldn’t give you an existential crisis because you pushed a button on the map painting simulator. You should have an existential crisis over your use of apostrophes imo
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Jul 29, 2018 03:42
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Phlegmish posted:That said, I've never played as Nazi Germany in HoI, but that's just because it's too obvious a choice. For the same reason, I've never played the UK in Vicky. I've done this only once, and I went republic and WW2 never happened and honestly it was kind boring. A good kind of boring though! I ended up using my political sway to install a bunch of other democracies around Europe.
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Jul 29, 2018 05:51
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Jazerus posted:there is a brutality slider! you can choose to kill the natives, trade with the natives, or live peacefully with the natives (i.e. the british approach, the french approach, or the ahistorical approach)
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Jul 29, 2018 06:31
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Kenzie posted:Does EU4 have events for the genocide of native Americans? Or events about them dying off from disease brought by the Europeans?
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Jul 29, 2018 07:25
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There are disease events if you're playing as a native American tribe/nation, although sometimes they don't fire for some reason. You get a "there are strange new trade goods circulating America" event when Europeans first reach the Americas, and then sometime after that you get an event about a new disease pandemic that comes with a big stack of debuffs. It might only show up if you have the dlc that fleshes out the Americas?
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Jul 29, 2018 09:29
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A Buttery Pastry posted:No disease events, though the historically populous areas essentially start off depopulated in preparation for the arrival of Europeans. The Aztec for sure get events about diseases and social pressures from Europeans, they completely wrecked my sunset invasion game last time I tried that achievement. It doesn't lower population but the maluses are not what you want to deal with during an existential war.
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Jul 29, 2018 10:40
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Huh, pretty sure they never fired for me playing the Incas, and I have the expansions that touch on the Americas. e: Clearly my rulers were blessed by Allah to stand up to the Christians, as the Ottomans were the first Europeans to arrive.
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Jul 29, 2018 11:16
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Being a goon I'm reluctant to leave the house, so i've always admired those YOLO Polynesian and European explorers just setting off in their boats in a random direction. Balls of steel.
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Jul 29, 2018 11:39
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A HoI where you play as the league of nations and you just punch your desk in frustration when all the events, reforms and triggers you activate do literally nothing.
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Jul 29, 2018 12:21
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Phlegmish posted:Being a goon I'm reluctant to leave the house, so i've always admired those YOLO Polynesian and European explorers just setting off in their boats in a random direction. Balls of steel. I know, right? I highly recommend reading up or taking a class on the Pacific Islands, they're fascinating.
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Jul 29, 2018 20:07
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Senor Dog posted:The purge needs to be an event like the matignon strikes, not something you consciously trigger for the bonuses "If you don't get the purge out of the way to satisfy stalin's paranoia you'll just constantly lose people completely at random throughout the game" is what I would do with it.
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Jul 29, 2018 20:19
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catlord posted:I know, right? I highly recommend reading up or taking a class on the Pacific Islands, they're fascinating. Any recs?
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Jul 29, 2018 21:40
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catlord posted:I know, right? I highly recommend reading up or taking a class on the Pacific Islands, they're fascinating. The Tides of History podcast also did a bunch of really good episodes about how the European voyages to the Indian Ocean and the Americas came about. It honestly makes those voyages even more impressive because there's about a century of very hard work leading up to the voyages where the west coast of Africa slowly gets mapped and sailors have to figure out how the Atlantic ocean currents work, and how sailing in the open ocean works, and make all these huge advancements in the field of sailing and navigation whilst maintaining the political and financial support to continue doing that work.
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Jul 29, 2018 22:22
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Rumda posted:Any recs? I actually took the class route, taught by a guy who did a lot of work in the Pacific Islands, so the books were useful but they were supplemented by videos and the teacher's experiences during his own work in the Pacific Islands. For class we read A History of the Pacific Islands and Nest in the Wind, but as noted there was a whole lot more to it than just those. Sorry that I'm not the best source for recs.
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Jul 29, 2018 22:44
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