|
What card can you possibly even ban from Humans that will hurt it without killing off entire archetypes? Ancient Ziggurat? E: I feel like the deck is at a point where it's just overflowing with good, high quality creatures and no matter what you do more and better human creatures will eventually push it back over the top again.
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:16 |
|
|
Unclaimed Territory was what pushed it to playability in its current form, so one of the two choose-creature-type lands maybe? I don't think one of those two will kill too many archetypes, they were chugging along just fine with only Cavern of Souls. The only other creature tribe that's prominent right now is spirits and only a few lists play 1x Cavern of Souls so they wouldn't be hit by a Territory or Cavern ban that hard. Humans will probably survive with fewer colors.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:21
|
|
|
suicidesteve posted:Yeah, I haven't had a chance to try it but I'm not at all convinced that the deck wants Tormod's Ghost over RiP. They kinda do extremely different things against extremely different decks and the decks RiP is good against are the much more popular decks right now. Yeah I think the big thing to understand is that they are not functional replacements for each other. Tormod's Ghost is better in matchups where nuking the graveyard once is likely to be good enough. It's another body for your beatdown plan, which is relevant given running out of gas from playing cards that can't attack is one of the ways Spirits can lose a game from an advantaged position, you can find it off Company if you're on Bant, and having ways to play it at instant speed means you can potentially 'get' people in situations where they would have played around RIP. All that said, it is very much not Rest in Peace. Sometimes the Graveyards need to be turned off, full stop, and this card cannot do it.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:25
|
|
|
I haven't been keeping up with the SCG even this weekend so I haven't seen too much humans on camera but is there a reason that you can't just play KCI into them and combo them out? They don't really get to run a lot of the harder hate (like stony silence and rip) and you can usually Engineered Explosives away the stuff thats a real problem for you.
|
|
#
?
Jul 29, 2018 23:27
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:What card can you possibly even ban from Humans that will hurt it without killing off entire archetypes? Ban Cavern. Cavern doesn't kill any deck. KCI is real bad against Humans because they are very strong at assembling two Meddling Mages and a Mage on EE and a Mage on KCI is essentially unbeatable.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:14
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:Ban Cavern. Cavern doesn't kill any deck. that board state seems completely beatable with pyrite spellbombs in the main and ghirapur aether grids and collective brutalities in the side Edit: looks like KCI has started running bolts in the side now instead of brutalities which seems even better in that situation https://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-ironworks-combo-48576#paper AnEdgelord fucked around with this message at 00:22 on Jul 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:20
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:that board state seems completely beatable with pyrite spellbombs in the main and ghirapur aether grids and collective brutalities in the side Humans will also kill you in four or five turns and all their disruption pieces turn sideways, so you don't really have a lot of time to go digging for sideboard cards or specific answers. You have like 2 copies of EE and a single Spellbomb in the maindeck, no time to look for them, and no guarantee that they will even make it from your opening hand to the battlefield. Humans also has a bunch of other disruption pieces that are good against you: Freebooter can rip KCI or EE out of your hand, Reflector Mage bouncing your recursion creatures is almost a harder lock than killing since it means they're truly gone for an extra turn, and there's like three copies of Thalia in the maindeck. A deck with a fast clock and disruptive elements is like the worst nightmare for a combo deck with minimal interaction like KCI, and Humans is probably the best take on that archetype in the current meta. Voyager I fucked around with this message at 00:37 on Jul 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:32
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:that board state seems completely beatable with pyrite spellbombs in the main and ghirapur aether grids and collective brutalities in the side You don't sideboard four cards for good matchups. Humans is real good against KCI. If there's one deck that KCI is not happy to play against, it's probably GDS, but if there's one other deck that KCI is not happy to play against then it's definitely Humans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:41
|
|
|
What's so scary about the aggro deck with literally a dozen maindeck hate cards for my archetype?
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:48
|
|
|
Voyager I posted:What's so scary about the aggro deck with literally a dozen maindeck hate cards for my archetype? And impulses to find more of them and phantasmal images to copy the ones that already exist
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 00:50
|
|
|
If I am playing in an unknown meta PPTQ next week, should I play Jund or Mardu? Jund Pros: I have a Tarmogoyf dice BBE is a fun card to cast My Bobs are French One Tireless Tracker draws lots of cards Feeling good knowing my deck is probably more expensive than any opponent Jund cons; Probably can't beat Tron Not knowing what combo of Push/Bolt/Decay/Bore/Pulse can be tricky and cost me Need to borrow the last Verdant Catacombs from a friend Mardu pros: Getting to play with the best draw three in Modern Spirit token game is on point As is Elementals and Goblin tokens for Rabblemasters in the SB Blood Moon free winniness Probably better in an unknown meta Mardu cons: Probably can't beat Tron Lingering Souls are a horrible 3DKA/1MM2017 split My snow-covered Plains is not as cool as the other snow basics No manlands
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 02:25
|
|
|
I would play Mardu but I respect the hell out of you for running Tireless Tracker in Jund. I was playing GW Company for a little bit and I think I miss Tracker the most out of anything in that deck.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 02:40
|
|
|
Mardu is a bunch better but I don't think you can play a grindy black deck against Militia Bugler Humans.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 03:43
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:Mardu is a bunch better but I don't think you can play a grindy black deck against Militia Bugler Humans.  http://www.starcitygames.com/decks/StarCityGamescom_Modern_Open/2018-07-28_modern_Indianapolis_IN_US/1/
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:28
|
|
|
GoutPatrol posted:Choices Mardu. Jund has nut draws for sure, but Mardu's weaker hands are still able to become great.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:48
|
|
|
Ban Aether Vial You Cowards
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 04:54
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:Ban Aether Vial You Cowards Do this so I can buy a playset for cheap and sit on them until their eventual un-banning.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 05:04
|
|
|
Archenteron posted:Ban Aether Vial You Cowards The collateral damage is waaaaaay too wide to justify that.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 05:18
|
|
|
teddust posted:I don't think Runechanter's Pike is a great choice here. You run a fair number of spells, but you don't run any cantrips to draw into more, and you a planning to close the game out quickly, so it seems like something more mana efficient like bonesplitter or maybe adventuring gear would be better. Or since evidently 6 fetches aren't out of you budget for a mono color deck you could run B/G and have access to rancor, plus glistener elf over expensive stuff like Skytherix. I honestly think a tuned B/G infect deck could be decent in modern. The deck isn't probably going to win quick games, especially since my best creature is a 3 drop. I decided instead of the Pikes to put in Livewire Lash.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 12:47
|
|
|
I played 4C Saheeli in the SCG Indy Open, where I (correctly it turns out) expected a lot of Humans and more KCI than normal. It seemed like KCI was being targeted heavily, and it didn’t seem to do so well despite how relatively many copies were in the room. Humans did put a lot of decks in the top 32, and there were a lot floating around (all with Militia Buglers which were sold out by the end of Saturday). I picked my deck because it’s good against Humans, and has a reasonable shot against KCI while being okay against the field in general. I started the event off right, starting 3-0 and pulling off a T2 win through a Tidehollow Sculler (my 5C Aggro opponent was on the play). Here’s how that went: Opp: Tidehollow Sculler on T2 with me having land and Birds in play. I reveal my hand of fetch, Lotus Cobra, Eldritch Evolution, Renegade Rallier, Reflector Mage and something irrelevant. Since I can clearly just bounce the Tidehollow and get back whatever it takes, my opponent takes that. Seems reasonable. Me: draws Saheeli, play Cobra; play and crack fetch (3 mana); Renegade Rallier, get back and crack fetch (3 mana); Saheeli, copy Rallier, get back and crack fetch (3 mana); Eldritch Evolution one of my dudes for Felidar Guardian, blink Saheeli, and ...oh you’re packing up your cards? Then there was a 2 hour break for software issues, which I spent getting lunch and totally losing my mojo, going 1-3 after the break and dropping, tired from the long day and frustrated with the amount of mulligans I was taking towards the end. I joined the Classic, which turned out to be another 9 rounder (yuck), and I ended up top 8ing that one. I lost to two-time Epic Card Game world champion John Tatian on Infect in the quarterfinals, him probably being the only guy in the room that was intimately familiar with my deck as we’d been talking about it all weekend. His maindeck Dismember saved him G1, and a well-placed Vines in G2 to stop my combo nabbed him that one, but both were very close (he needed all his cards and mana both games to stop me) and probably the best games I played this weekend. John went on to destroy a KCI player (it was ugly) and then skillfully dispatched a Burn player in the finals (much nicer to look at), while I got my pet deck up on the SCG website again. Two Classic top 8s in two tries with a deck that’s “not real” and who approximately 70% of my opponents assure me is a great matchup for their deck feels pretty good. I never played against Humans or KCI all weekend! DurdleDuck fucked around with this message at 17:04 on Jul 30, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 14:35
|
|
|
Sampatrick posted:Ban Cavern. Cavern doesn't kill any deck. elves is tier-2 at best now and probably falls into unplayableness without Cavern. Being able to reliably resolve 2/2s one at a time and grind out games is sometimes your best bet against control.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 15:42
|
|
|
Banning vial seems bad, it's a cool enabler card that isn't inherently broken and has been around since mirrodin and nobody was ever mad about it before. There are decks that can't survive without vials. I don't really think cavern should be banned either but it's more reasonable than vial. Manabases would have to adjust but the decks would still function exactly the same in a way that vial decks couldn't without vial. I'm a bit surprised at the lack of control at the open, seems like it got responded to and pushed back on which lets humans do well and put out big numbers again.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 15:51
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:Banning vial seems bad, it's a cool enabler card that isn't inherently broken and has been around since mirrodin and nobody was ever mad about it before. There are decks that can't survive without vials. I don't really think cavern should be banned either but it's more reasonable than vial. Manabases would have to adjust but the decks would still function exactly the same in a way that vial decks couldn't without vial. Bugler also give humans a lot more resiliency than it had before. It can miss sometimes but the times when it doesn't it can often be a Recruiter of the Guard. I'm not sold on it being some tier 0 monstrosity since it couldn't even win the tournament it debuted at but we'll see how the meta shapes up going forward.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 15:54
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Bugler also give humans a lot more resiliency than it had before. It can miss sometimes but the times when it doesn't it can often be a Recruiter of the Guard. Yeah I'm not worried. Modern is still a wide format and humans isn't unbeatable or forcing deck/sideboard choice in weird directions that are overly specific. The two UR wizards decks are interesting. They're just UR delver tempo decks, but I guess that a certain mass of wizards meaning you usually have 8 bolts makes it all playable? The amount of spells means delvers have about a 33% chance to blind flip, which doesn't seem amazing and they only seem to have visions to set up a delver. Maindeck lavamancer and 8 bolts/4 snaps seems decent against humans and other small creature decks though, assuming you can kill champions and lieutenants before they get too big.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 16:01
|
|
|
In the quarter finals, Boohoogland had an instance where he had to not reveal a card to transform his Delver of Secrets because it was a Wizard's Lightning. Insectile Aberration isn't a wizard, so he couldn't get the mana discount if he had transformed his creature. I have a feeling that comes up a lot.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 16:07
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Bugler also give humans a lot more resiliency than it had before. It can miss sometimes but the times when it doesn't it can often be a Recruiter of the Guard. I mean, 50% conversion rate of Day 2 into top 16 is absolutely insane. The deck is really, really good and it's performance at the open just clarifies exactly how good it is. Not winning means very little in a high variance game. Bugler makes it much harder for any of the board wipe decks to beat Humans because even if you can answer their Meddling Mage and cast your wrath before you're dead, they can just assemble a new board in a couple turns between Bugler and Canopy.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 16:36
|
|
|
I think Ensnaring Bridge decks may get a shot in the arm in the near future if Humans keeps doing well.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 16:46
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:I think Ensnaring Bridge decks may get a shot in the arm in the near future if Humans keeps doing well. Oh sweet, a card that I have a playset of for once.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 16:54
|
|
|
I haven't tried RW prison in forever, might be ok vs. humans. Saw some people trying mono-red prison, although I really liked the white options in RW. We haven't seen lantern in a long time either. Also, how does humans ever beat a maindeck Worship? Might look into trying that in a creature deck somewhere.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 17:03
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:Also, how does humans ever beat a maindeck Worship? Might look into trying that in a creature deck somewhere. reclamation sage has been errated to a human
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 17:07
|
|
|
Fingers McLongDong posted:Yeah I'm not worried. Modern is still a wide format and humans isn't unbeatable or forcing deck/sideboard choice in weird directions that are overly specific. There's another version of UR Wizards that relies more heavily on Prowess. Runs Snapcaster and Lavamancer but also Soul-Scar Mage, Stormchaser Mage, and Monastery Swiftspear, along with the same cheap burn and card draw. I'm almost done building it and I'm going to be sad if it turns out that I bet on the wrong version of the deck. TheKingofSprings posted:I think Ensnaring Bridge decks may get a shot in the arm in the near future if Humans keeps doing well. Mill's back baby awooooo
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 17:10
|
|
|
Tim Raines IRL posted:reclamation sage has been errated to a human Maindeck they don't have any sages though, I know they have some sideboard. Only 1-2 usually though, something to consider.
|
|
#
?
Jul 30, 2018 17:11
|
|
|
DurdleDuck posted:Two Classic top 8s in two tries with a deck that’s “not real” and who approximately 70% of my opponents assure me is a great matchup for their deck feels pretty good. Nice work! What all did you end up playing against throughout the weekend?
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 01:13
|
|
|
Dehtraen posted:Nice work! What all did you end up playing against throughout the weekend? 3 UW Miracles WWW 3 Mardu Pyromancer WLW 2 Tron WW 1 Jeskai Control W 1 RG Titanshift L 1 Abzan Traverse L 1 Infect L 1 Burn W 1 Storm W 1 Eldrazi Tron L 1 Five Color Aggro W 1 Ponza ID I’m pretty sure this is all I played against. I went 4-3 on Saturday (losing to Mardu, Eldrazi Tron, Abzan), and 7-1-1 on Sunday, then lost in the quarters. Most of the above is fairly representative of how I’d expect the deck to do. If you’d like more detail, I can write something up. DurdleDuck fucked around with this message at 02:06 on Jul 31, 2018 |
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 01:56
|
|
|
So perusing some of the legacy death's shadow lists, it looks like maindeck reanimate is just the standard now, insofar as there can be such a thing in a dead format. I'm seeing a lot of delver of secrets, which in my experience was the worst creature in the deck but a pretty wide margin. I'm picking up some goyfs so my deck is entirely creatures that turn on stubborn denial, which is gr8
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 03:54
|
|
|
DurdleDuck posted:3 UW Miracles WWW I'd read it, I somehow managed to acquire all the cards for a version of Saheeli Combo that managed to squeeze my favorite cards Eldritch Evolution, Renegade Rallier, and Tireless Tracker all into the same deck so I don't know why I haven't played it yet.
|
|
#
?
Jul 31, 2018 04:14
|
|
|
6 copies of bant spirits at the pro tour.
|
|
#
?
Aug 3, 2018 18:33
|
|
|
TheKingofSprings posted:I think Ensnaring Bridge decks may get a shot in the arm in the near future if Humans keeps doing well. I obliterated Humans last night with this nonsense:  I'm thinking of sleeving this up for FNM next week, does anyone have any thoughts? Faithless looting is suboptimal but it pitches nicely to lily and IDK what else I'm supposed to do to fix my hands in these colors.
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2018 18:30
|
|
|
Tim Raines IRL posted:I obliterated Humans last night with this nonsense: Koth as another wincon? I definitely saw someone stream a list like this + Koth on CFB, it seemed to do well enough but that was a little while back. Also I love your weird brews that you keep posting in this thread and never stop posting them IMO. Kinda want to try your list -1/2 Lili +1/2 Koth, which sounds like it would be really funny with Blood Moon out. E: Found it- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TOgPOvKdVQQ. His list was 3 x Blood Crypt 4 x Bloodstained Mire 1 x Graven Cairns 4 x Marsh Flats 4 x Mountain 5 x Swamp 4 x Inquisition of Kozilek 4 x Thoughtseize 4 x Relic of Progenitus 4 x Collective Brutality 4 x Night’s Whisper 1 x Dreadbore 2 x Ratchet Bomb 2 x Liliana of the Veil 4 x Ensnaring Bridge 3 x Blood Moon 3 x Chandra, Torch of Defiance 2 x Koth of the Hammer 2 x Ob Nixilis Reignited //Sideboard 3 x Fatal Push 4 x Pack Rat 2 x Goblin Rabblemaster 3 x Fulminator Mage 2 x Boil 1 x Olivia Voldaren C-Euro fucked around with this message at 19:27 on Aug 5, 2018 |
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2018 18:39
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 22, 2024 09:16 |
|
|
good to see my boy representing with UB Death's Shadow at the PT. Maindeck reanimates TOO GOOD
|
|
#
?
Aug 5, 2018 22:22
|
|