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I finally got to play some Check Your Six! We did a jet age scenario, and wow there was a bit of a learning curve. Overall I really enjoyed it, but there were definitely some elements that showed their age. Attacking ground targets seemed underdeveloped, and the maneuver charts felt like they could have been massively simplified. But it felt  to push jets around on flight stands across a hex-grid ocean. I can't wait to try it with WW2 planes.
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Jul 29, 2018 19:42
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Worth getting if I can find it?
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Jul 29, 2018 20:55
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Fish and Chimps posted:The Tanks! game is great! I just ordered three expansions to use for CoC or WaT! Great way to get Battlefront's excellent plastic tanks one at a time. NTRabbit posted:Yeah I've done the same, albeit I bought it to play before WaT! existed. The Panther, M4A3 Sherman, and Pakwagen are all good kits, though the Pakwagen isn't in WaT yet (needs an armoured car supplement). I plan to get more in a fantasy future where everyone has reliable jobs that pay real money. The prophecy has come to pass and they're making a Team Yankee edition, so maybe that will see a revival of sorts. In other historicals news, got my LGS' quarterly Bolt Action Tourney coming up! I came in dead last last time, so things can only get better from here!  I've revised my list from the previous 3 tourneys, but I think I might put the Commandos out to pasture for a while after this. I have some US Airborne (I'm considering the Market Garden list from the Campaign book, since that gives a free British FOO and access to the British bombardment rules) and Marine Raider lists I want to try out once I've painted the minis. I might even...forgo a tank, at long last. Definitely for the Raiders, since I decided to go for a thematic Makin Island list (I actually just grabbed the Osprey book on the raid from their sale). That's going to be a fun list without any heavy weaponry at all. High speed, low drag! AT grenades for everyone! Speaking of Brits and Americans, I recently partook in the Revolutions Podcast fundraiser and acquired a shirt with this fetching design:  So I'm idly wondering: what's the best way for a goon to get on Gentleman Johnny's party train?
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Jul 29, 2018 21:43
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Some of my reenactment friends have a shirt like that.
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Jul 29, 2018 21:48
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Finally got my UK platoon finished and at the same place at the same time. Enjoy this group shot!
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Jul 29, 2018 21:56
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Arquinsiel posted:Worth getting if I can find it? I'd think so, but I wouldn't go on a crazy eBay safari or anything. I haven't played enough dogfight games to have a knowledgeable opinion, but I did have a fun time and would definitely play it again.
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Jul 30, 2018 04:24
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Cool, I'll see if I can find a copy easily then. ETA: Seems Northstar Miniatures have it. I may throw it in with the next order. Fish and Chimps posted:Finally got my UK platoon finished and at the same place at the same time. Enjoy this group shot! Arquinsiel fucked around with this message at 07:17 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 07:13
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Fish and Chimps posted:Finally got my UK platoon finished and at the same place at the same time. Enjoy this group shot! Everyone loves an AVRE!
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Jul 30, 2018 07:40
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Fish and Chimps posted:Finally got my UK platoon finished and at the same place at the same time. Enjoy this group shot! Nice! Speaking of WW2, Warlord just posted a pre-order for plastic (?) Brits and Germans for North Africa. But I can't find any pictures of them. Has anyone seen any?
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Jul 30, 2018 07:41
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NTRabbit posted:Everyone loves an AVRE! thwomp A German squad disappears
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Jul 30, 2018 07:47
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JcDent posted:thwomp This is how I'm hoping it will go 
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Jul 30, 2018 08:33
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JcDent posted:thwomp Fixed that for you.
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Jul 30, 2018 10:40
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Tanks! Got me into 15mm, it just spiralled out of control. I don't seem to play it as often these days though. What a Tanker is in the mail. And nice looking Brits!
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Jul 30, 2018 11:29
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What do you guys think of Flames of War and Bolt Action as games? I'm thinking of selling off my unpainted Warhammer stuff in favor of messing with either Flames of War or Bolt Action. Coming from painting Warhammer dudes I'm partial to the 28mm scale that Bolt Action has but as games FoW and BA appear to be pretty different. FoW is much bigger and appears to be better supported locally here in Sweden so that alone is probably reason enough to go for it since it might be hard to find others who play BA. Anyone who has played both games? I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to tabletop stuff so hopefully I'm not fanning the flames of a bitter war between FoW and BA fans.  Also does anyone know any good historicals youtube channels? Boar It fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 14:14
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Torabi posted:What do you guys think of Flames of War and Bolt Action as games? I'm thinking of selling off my unpainted Warhammer stuff in favor of messing with either Flames of War or Bolt Action. Coming from painting Warhammer dudes I'm partial to the 28mm scale that Bolt Action has but as games FoW and BA appear to be pretty different. FoW is much bigger and appears to be better supported locally here in Sweden so that alone is probably reason enough to go for it since it might be hard to find others who play BA. Anyone who has played both games? I'm a bit out of the loop when it comes to tabletop stuff so hopefully I'm not fanning the flames of a bitter war between FoW and BA fans. I play neither but I think both are good entry points into historicals if you've ever played Warhammer, as they are more beginner friendly when it comes to building your force, etc. Basically they are structured like warhammer games with "army books" that neatly guide you through the process, where the more groggy games can be more towards the "oh, just make your German platoon according to the appropriate KStN for the date, duh". Once you're into them, you can use exactly the same miniatures if you want to dip into the more historically grounded (i.e. groggy) games, so that's a huge plus. I'm also a dirty Swede, and I feel that popularity of historical games and settings here vary wildly from town to town. Going 15mm has a huge advantage in cost, storage, transportation, etc., but I like painting 28mm WW2 stuff as well. But I'd check out what the local players are into, if there even are any, before I'd settle on one or the other. As for Youtube channels, this one is right up my alley as we're gearing up for both North Africa and potentially Stalingrad after that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=channel?UCfZz8F37oSJ2rtcEJHM2kCg It's not about wargaming as such, but it's a nice background channel for painting. Also, all wargaming Youtube channels tend to be pretty… offputting IMHO. The Beasts of War podcast has a few funny battle reports from Chain of Command where Rich (the author) cheats and/or forget his own rules in ways that changes the outcome of the games, which is hilarious. It's still a great game though. 
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Jul 30, 2018 14:43
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Historicals are great in that it's hard to lock yourself into a single game. Your miniatures from FoW will work with Blitzkrieg Commander and Battlegroup Kursk while your BA manz can be readily use in Chain of Command, I Ain't Been Shot, Mum!, Five Guys in Normandy and more. As a man very passionate about Space Marines, I'll tell you this: dump hams, buy historicals.
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Jul 30, 2018 14:56
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Solid advice from liljonas. Since historicals have a much smaller player base, it's definitely best to "latch onto" an existing group and their game of choice. I've played a lot of FoW but honestly think BA is more fun thanks to the irregular turn structure. JcDent posted:As a man very passionate about Space Marines, I'll tell you this: dump hams, buy historicals. 
Fish and Chimps fucked around with this message at 15:02 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 14:58
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lilljonas posted:I play neither but I think both are good entry points into historicals if you've ever played Warhammer, as they are more beginner friendly when it comes to building your force, etc. Basically they are structured like warhammer games with "army books" that neatly guide you through the process, where the more groggy games can be more towards the "oh, just make your German platoon according to the appropriate KStN for the date, duh". Once you're into them, you can use exactly the same miniatures if you want to dip into the more historically grounded ... Right now I study in a place that has exactly zero of everything but I'll move to civilization in a year or so so I'll have to check then I suppose. But I have a friend who appears to be getting into FoW as of right now. FoW also appears to be cheaper but I guess it is all relative since 15mm models are probably cheaper in general compared to 28mm. JcDent posted:Historicals are great in that it's hard to lock yourself into a single game. Your miniatures from FoW will work with Blitzkrieg Commander and Battlegroup Kursk while your BA manz can be readily use in Chain of Command, I Ain't Been Shot, Mum!, Five Guys in Normandy and more. Fish and Chimps posted:Solid advice from liljonas. Since historicals have a much smaller player base, it's definitely best to "latch onto" an existing group and their game of choice. Hopefully I can sell them for a decent price since a lot of the stuff is still practically untouched minus we beginning to assemble them a little. The irregular turn structure of BA seems intriguing as well. Too many choices like usual. Poor wallet.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:19
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One good thing about FoW: you don't need to buy Battlefront. PSC does some good poo poo, and Zvezda has good 15mm tanks on offer.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:38
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Torabi posted:Right now I study in a place that has exactly zero of everything but I'll move to civilization in a year or so so I'll have to check then I suppose. But I have a friend who appears to be getting into FoW as of right now. FoW also appears to be cheaper but I guess it is all relative since 15mm models are probably cheaper in general compared to 28mm. I went from Warhammer to FoW as well about 4-5 years ago. Eventually I found that many of the things that bugged me about GW/40k were present to a lesser degree with Battlefront/FoW as well: frequent rule updates where some armies will just get completely shafted (*cough cough* Soviets), toxic competitive metagaming scene, and overpriced models. I made the switch to Bolt Action about 3 year ago and haven't looked back. I like that I have a range of manufacturers to choose from and that I can build an army for less than $100. There has only been one rules update and it was just to slightly tweak a few things for balance. Most of all the community is much chiller, or at least the people I've been gaming with are. There isn't some flavor-of-the-month unstoppable list popping up constantly that you have to tailor your force against or get crushed.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:43
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Dump hams, buy medieval historicals, play hams again but with 1/72 figures.
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Jul 30, 2018 15:47
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Torabi posted:What do you guys think of Flames of War and Bolt Action as games? Bolt Action is in its 2nd edition, and looks to be in a pretty good place rules-wise. If you're coming from 40K, army composition will feel very familiar to you. There are army lists, each unit type has a points cost, you build according to some nominal points total (e.g. a 1000 point list). It's super easy to pick up, and is great for pick-up games at your local club or FLGS. But as games? Honestly, neither one is anything ground-breaking. FoW is a pretty bog-standard miniatures wargame. Bolt Action's activation dice mechanic introduces a little bit more variation in the turn order, which is kind of cool. I played Bolt Action a couple of times, and while it was interesting, it's actually not what finally got me into WW2 gaming. But it only took a single game of Chain of Command to get me completely hooked. Fortunately, no one owns a copyright on WW2 - you can use the same miniatures for pretty much any game! So go ahead an play some FoW or Bolt Action to get your feet wet and get in with a good group. Then, as your familiarity with WW2 stuff grows, you can easily expand your horizons with loads of other cool games, many of which have very interesting and novel rules mechanics.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:10
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BA has assault rifle volksgrenadiers as the permanent bullshit op army. Less of an issue of you're doing historic mathups, tho.
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Jul 30, 2018 16:19
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BA and FOW are the two largest historicals out there, and I think the consensus is that both games are decent. Groggier fare like Blitzkrieg Commander, COC, and Battlegroup gets a lot of posts, but these games are not really suited to pickup games at your local club or tournament style gameplay. Is there a good sized active local community for both games? If not, go for the one that has the active community. If yes, pick FOW if you like having a lot of fancy toys like tanks and airplanes on the board, pick BA if you like the idea of a more limited number of infantry with maybe a couple of fancy toys.
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Jul 30, 2018 17:29
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Bullied my friends into playing some 6mm ACW Black Powder yesterday, pretty fun game.  Rebels began in control of a small town. They have a battalion of infantry, some artillery, and a large cavalry component consisting of 2 horse artillery pieces and 4 regiments on horseback, 2 with carbines and 2 with muskets.  Union has two brigades of infantry, 2 regiments of cavalry and 3 siege artillery pieces that considerably outrange the rebel horse artillery and slightly outrange their regular artillery. Their force is bulkier than the confederates, but they lack mobility and will need to assault some fortifications.     The battle ends up hinging on a pair of aggressive Confederate cavalry charges- despite their ability to flank charge, in both cases the large Union units are able to weather the storm and prevent their lines from collapsing. Once the Rebel cavalry is cleared out, the remaining Union force is able to bottle up the Confederates and grind out control of the village. It was a pretty good one!
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Jul 30, 2018 18:06
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Beasts of War has a bolt action demo game that's a good intro. Tabletopbattle YouTube channel is some friendly Scandinavian guys who play a ton of Bolt Action. (Also I'm working on a BA tabletop simulator mod) https://imgur.com/a/E0JWyX2
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Jul 30, 2018 18:57
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Thanks for the info guys. From my understanding CoC is scale agnostic it seems since they don't appear to sell any models for it? Also the thread title makes a lot more sense now that I know what CoC is.Dirt Worshipper posted:Beasts of War has a bolt action demo game that's a good intro. Tabletopbattle YouTube channel is some friendly Scandinavian guys who play a ton of Bolt Action. Nice! Are you making your own models?
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Jul 30, 2018 19:04
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Torabi posted:Thanks for the info guys. From my understanding CoC is scale agnostic it seems since they don't appear to sell any models for it? Torabi posted:Also the thread title makes a lot more sense now that I know what CoC is. And actually, you may want to look into CoC for another reason - it's actually a fantastic solo game, so even if you don't have a big club or FLGS, you can still enjoy it until you can rope friends into playing it too. Any game that lets me legitimately surprise ambush myself is pretty freaking awesome.
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Jul 30, 2018 19:30
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If you're just getting started in 28mm, I'd highly recommend using a platoon list from Chain of Command as a template for your collection. It'll be usable in Bolt Action, somewhat reflect an accurate historical force, and also keep you from being the guy who brings three Tigers and a Maus. Warlord games make pretty great boxed 28mm armies, and they typically line up pretty well with the platoon lists on the TFL site. If you end up doing individually based 15mm figures, a single FoW platoon will only run you about $25-30, and can be easily based on pennies. (Or larger coins and washers for weapons teams.) moths fucked around with this message at 19:43 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 19:37
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I don't suppose anyone would be willing to make a re edit of the Chain of Command rules, would they? I've been struggling through it but keep finding second that don't quite seem to make sense.
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Jul 30, 2018 20:21
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Ilor posted:And actually, you may want to look into CoC for another reason - it's actually a fantastic solo game, so even if you don't have a big club or FLGS, you can still enjoy it until you can rope friends into playing it too. Any game that lets me legitimately surprise ambush myself is pretty freaking awesome. Wait, what? You can play this game by yourself?
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Jul 30, 2018 20:27
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Wait, what? You can play this game by yourself? Quite well, since moves are random length, and pools of activation options are randomized by dice. So it’s not like chess, where you can’t believably try to outwit your own tactics - you can roll the dice for one platoon, try to make the most reasonable (or even historical based on doctrine and manuals if you are Top Grog) actions based on them. Then switch and do the same with the other platoon. E: Basically, each turn you normally roll five dice per platoon, and each result of the die allows you to do one thing: 1's activate a team (think a single AT gun or the LMG of a section/squad), 2's activate an entire section/squad, 3's activate junior leaders (who in turn can activate sections and do things like remove shock), 4's activate senior leaders who can order several sections and teams around at once, 5's collect "CoC Dice" which allow you to do special things like ambushes 6's will allow you to act again if you roll two or more of them at the same roll. So each turn you will be given a puzzle: based on the roll, what is the optimal way to activate your platoon? Maybe you really needed a 1 to activate your medic (a team), but you roll a bunch of 3's, a 4, a 5 and a 6. Will you give a 3 to your tank, so that you can move it out of line of sight of that AT gun, or give it to the junior leader who's busy keeping that group of riflemen from getting pinned due to a hail of MG fire? Will you use a 4 to deploy your senior leader, so that maybe he can get into range of the medic and activate him, but, with the risk that the rest of the platoon doesn't arrive in time, as you'd now need to roll a 4+ any time you deploy more troops? So as a solo game, you simply try to solve this puzzle as best as you can each turn for each platoon. Since you don't know what you will roll next, you don't have ultimate knowledge of what the other side will be capable of when you make your moves, which helps in solo games since you don't have to second guess yourself. Maybe your cleverly encircling squad rolls badly for movement, and the other side rolls a double turn and gets to cut them to shreds because you overestimated how covered the approach really was? Maybe the succeed, and are now in a great crossfire position? lilljonas fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 21:36
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e:fb.  Anyway...Fashionable Jorts posted:Wait, what? You can play this game by yourself? You'll lose a little bit of the magic of the patrol phase (although I've found that simply walking around to the other side of the table does wonders) and you'll lose some of the surprise of not knowing what supports your opponent has until they hit the table, but these are pretty minor compared to the game-play itself. For those who aren't familiar with it, here's how Chain of Command works in a nutshell: You have a set of "Command Dice," usually 5 in number (although this can get decreased as your force gets close to breaking). At the beginning of your player turn (called a "phase" in CoC, because "turn" has a very specific meaning in-game), you roll your dice. * 1s can be used to deploy or activate any team-sized unit, be it a stand-alone unit like a mortar team or PIAT team or a sub-unit within an infantry section/squad (e.g. the BAR team that' part of a standard US infantry squad). * 2s can be used to deploy or activate a full squad/section. * 3s can be used to deploy/activate Junior Leaders, who are section/squad leaders in your force. When activated, they can use their two "command Initiatives" to do stuff, like deploy/activate their unit, rally off Shock, put guys on overwatch, get them to lay down covering fire, or chuck some grenades. As a side note, most armies also have a "National Characteristic" that is powered by CI use. Junior Leaders can only affect their own section/squad. * 4s can be used to deploy/activate Senior Leaders, who are your platoon commanders (generally lieutenants and platoon sergeants). They have more Command Initiatives and can use them on any unit in your force. * 5s rack up "Chain of Command" points. When you get to 6 of these, you can do cool stuff like spring ambushes, interrupt your opponent's phase, end the turn (which has important game effects like stopping mortar barrages and clearing smoke), relocate a sniper, move a Jump-Off Point (the places from which you deploy your troops), or skip having to make a "Bad Things Happen" roll to limit losses to your Force Morale (dropping the opponent's Force Morale to 0 is the way to win most games of CoC). * 6s dictate the player order. If you roll one or fewer 6s, you opponent will get the next phase (i.e. normal turn order). If you roll two 6s, you'll get this phase and the next phase. If you roll three 6s, it ends the turn (after your phase is complete) and you get the first phase of the next turn. Four or more 6s does all of the above, but gives you a full 6 "Chain of Command" points and incurs a random event (like a sudden downpour or a building catching on fire). You can combine dice up to a 4 (for instance you could combine a 1 and a 2 to activate a particular Junior Leader), but you can't split dice. So when you grab a handful of dice, you literally have no idea what's about to happen. You may desperately want to be able to activate your Sherman to dump some HE into that stone barn from which a German MG-42 is spitting out heinous carnage, but if you don't have any 3s, you're boned. I guess the loader is having some trouble getting the next shell seated, sucks to be you. You may have a great plan that goes right out the window when your "opponent" is suddenly the recipient of the wondrous beauty that is the "double phase" (meaning you get to go twice before your opponent can act). And that's the joy of CoC - both sides are constantly reacting to a fluid, unpredictable situation. Both sides are doing the best they can with what (limited) resources are available to them right now. You are always put into the position of making hard tactical choices - do I use that 1 and 2 to activate my 2" mortar team and that infantry section on my left flank, or do I combine them into a 3 to activate the Junior Leader of the infantry section on my right flank to rally off a little Shock because they are desperately close to getting pinned down? Another aspect of it that's really fun is that movement distances aren't fixed. When a squad is activated, it can stay stationary and fire at full effectiveness, move "tactically" (essentially crawling) at 1D6" but getting better cover (no firing), move 1D6" at a walk and fire at half effectiveness, move 2D6" with no firing, or sprint 3D6" but take some Shock in the process. So yeah, you might want to sprint across that field. It's only 10". Go for it! Oh, poo poo, you rolled a 5 on 3D6? Whelp, I guess those Germans manning than machinegun were quicker on the uptake than you hoped, and now they're going to sauce your dudes in the open. Uh, oh, looks like your clever plan is the first casualty! You'd better get some of your other units to throw smoke and/or lay down covering fire in your next phase, friend. Actions in CoC are all about your force not quite doing exactly what you want them to do, and always being forced to make tough decisions about how you're going to allocate your resources. You're never in complete control of the situation, which most veterans who've seen combat say is pretty much spot-on. Like I said, it's magical.
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Jul 30, 2018 21:58
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Ilor posted:Absolutely. Here's the thing with Chain of Command: lol high five team CoC-tutorials But yeah, I totally agree with this fluidity being the strongest point of CoC. It's like I said: a puzzle each turn, and no two turns are alike, because you will have rolled differently, with different units at your disposal, at different positions, facing slightly different threats. SP2 (their napoleonic game) doesn't have this exactly, but instead has IMHO an even more stress inducing activation system based on drawing cards, which I also like a lot. Maybe even more than CoC's dice. But the command dice puzzle is a great one, and what keeps the game fresh despite not having the army building meta of say, Bolt Action. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 22:05 on Jul 30, 2018 |
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Jul 30, 2018 21:59
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lilljonas posted:Quite well, since moves are random length, and pools of activation options are randomized by dice. So it’s not like chess, where you can’t believably try to outwit your own tactics - you can roll the dice for one platoon, try to make the most reasonable (or even historical based on doctrine and manuals if you are Top Grog) actions based on them. Then switch and do the same with the other platoon Oh ok, it's not like a boardgame where there's set rules for "AI" to play against. That's still pretty cool that it can function like that, as the person in my gaming group that usually has to learn the rules and teach them to everyone else, that is appealing to help learn it better. Not that I have any plans to game in that era.
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Jul 30, 2018 22:01
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You should, it's loving epic!
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Jul 30, 2018 22:06
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Oh ok, it's not like a boardgame where there's set rules for "AI" to play against. That's still pretty cool that it can function like that, as the person in my gaming group that usually has to learn the rules and teach them to everyone else, that is appealing to help learn it better. Not that I have any plans to game in that era. Absolutely, it's a great way to get to grips with the rules, especially if you are then going to teach them. My experience is that the rulesets of Too Fat Lardies (CoC, Sp2 etc) are often a bit weird for people when they start out, and then a few turns in things suddenly click, and it gets more intuitive. And as said, many of the books are in their first edition, which can get even more confusing, though Rich has indeed provided a lot more FAQs and such. And you can often get great answers, even directly from Rich, on the forums or the Facebook groups.
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Jul 30, 2018 22:09
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tallkidwithglasses posted:Bullied my friends into playing some 6mm ACW Black Powder yesterday, pretty fun game. This is very cool and you should play more games and post them, tia
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Jul 30, 2018 22:49
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I just realized that I've been misreading Too Fat Lardies as Too Fat Ladies so I was picturing some hefty women who were really good at making wargaming rules. I'm not sure if I'm disappointed.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:00
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I know it's not quite the thread but, if you're into tabletop RPGs and you're interested in historical wargames, I HIGHLY recommend PATROL, by Newstand Press, which comes in Vietnam and WW1 flavours. It's a game about being drafted into a war you hate where the place you're stuck is miserable and everything is trying to kill you, and not going too insane despite those first three things. Also I played 'Nam and it's not bad. You really need to play to the end to let NVA get the use out of attrition tactics though.
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Jul 30, 2018 23:26
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