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My favorite thing is Asia which seems to be inventing debit cards whole cloth right now out of like, subway passes and they are both weirdly advanced and comically behind at the same time.
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Aug 2, 2018 17:41
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Lambert posted:Fraud has become a pretty big problem with magstripes, as the past few years have shown. Lambert posted:Except getting your card swiped and disputing charges is really annoying. I'd rather have a more secure system. Debit cards are a different matter. They use different, and much less consumer-friendly, laws.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:10
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Yeah for all the poo poo Wells Fargo gets (deservedly so), the two or three times my accounts have been hijacked they’ve been on top of poo poo before I even knew anything was wrong.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:16
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Haifisch posted:I never understood the "people might use their card less if they have to enter a PIN" argument. If it's just a small handful of cards requiring a PIN every time, maybe, but if every card requires it, people would just get used to it. Actually, dumb VC bros subsidizing my movie tickets was very valuable.
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Aug 2, 2018 18:46
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:My favorite thing is Asia which seems to be inventing debit cards whole cloth right now out of like, subway passes and they are both weirdly advanced and comically behind at the same time.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:18
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Haifisch posted:Chicago did something like that with their Ventra transit cards, where you could opt-in to use them as as a prepaid debit card(with loads of fees) as well. To nobody's surprise, usage was so low that they're quietly phasing the debit functionality out as cards expire. In london you just use your contactless debit/credit card as a subway/transit card now.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:27
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Noctone posted:Yeah for all the poo poo Wells Fargo gets (deservedly so), the two or three times my accounts have been hijacked they’ve been on top of poo poo before I even knew anything was wrong. This is essentially because with credit cards, you are playing with the bank's money. Debit card fraud, meanwhile, can be a huge pain in the rear end for the consumer.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:34
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Brookstone is shutting down all of its mall retail stores. https://money.cnn.com/2018/08/02/news/companies/brookstone-bankruptcy/index.html This isn't a surprise or a shock, it was only a matter of time for a mall retailer whose entire shtick is funky gadgets and pillows that no one needs. It's only sad for me personally because it was my very first job out of High-School (well, minus the summer I did landscaping), and in my six years there I worked my way up to assistant manager before going to college. I have no love for the company itself, but most of my social circle were the people I met while working there. Some real life long bonds were formed over those many late nights gearing up for Christmas or Fathers day sales, re-stocking, doing inventory, getting free coffee from the baristas at the caribu coffee next store (I let them hang out in our massage charis in return for as long as they wanted), and complaining about customers. So many Dominos pizzas were eaten. Working that job, lovely as it was, helped me break out of my shell and talk to people, learn responsibility, and helped prepped me for college.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:53
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Noctone posted:Yeah for all the poo poo Wells Fargo gets (deservedly so), the two or three times my accounts have been hijacked they’ve been on top of poo poo before I even knew anything was wrong. They're still not as good as Amex. WF missed when someone started spending $800 on cigarettes with my stolen card, where as amex declined and locked the account instantly. They also have a lovely habit of locking cards when you order online and in person on the same day because of the zip code difference. They're getting better at it though.
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Aug 2, 2018 19:55
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:My favorite thing is Asia which seems to be inventing debit cards whole cloth right now out of like, subway passes and they are both weirdly advanced and comically behind at the same time. Which countries in "Asia" are doing this?
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Aug 2, 2018 20:08
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Haifisch posted:Chicago did something like that with their Ventra transit cards, where you could opt-in to use them as as a prepaid debit card(with loads of fees) as well. To nobody's surprise, usage was so low that they're quietly phasing the debit functionality out as cards expire. It's funny, because stuff like that seems more like just adding a regular old debit card onto a train card, tokyo/seoul/hong kong all seem like they are developing train cards into something sort of exactly like a debit card but like totally independently And like, it's not like no one has ever heard of a credit card, they do exist to some level, but most stuff is cash only to a weird amount and every time I go back there is just more things that sort of awkwardly replicate a debit card through stored value train cards, which are clearly city dependent and not bank accounts.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:16
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I feel like your experience is more limited by the countries you've spent time in? Debit and credit cards are all over Korea and not accepted at pretty much the same kinds of businesses they would be in Canada; markets, tiny businesses, tourism/cultural stuff. And the T-money transit card is used for metros in almost every major city in the country.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:25
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Mameluke posted:Which countries in "Asia" are doing this? Japanese Pasmo cards are widely accepted in stores. Korean T-money cards work at convenience stores. Hong Kong octopus cards are useable pretty much anywhere in hong kong to buy most things. Those are the ones I've encountered. Korea seems mostly to keep it to reasonably train station related stores, japan seems half and half where random stores everywhere might take it and hong kong it's just everywhere as a normal way to pay for things and you can also earn small amounts of it by running up a hill.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:29
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Sodomy Hussein posted:This is essentially because with credit cards, you are playing with the bank's money. Debit card fraud, meanwhile, can be a huge pain in the rear end for the consumer. At least a couple of times it was my debit card tho. They shut the card down, sent me a new one and cancelled/refunded all the fraudulent charges.
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Aug 2, 2018 20:33
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RE: US payment technology adoption, part of the problem is also that there are a tonne of weird little banks in the US that barely make the grade to issue credit cards, let alone upgrade systems to support new/other payment and security methodologies. Some of these banks don't even participate in the Address Verification System (AVS) used by a lot of ecommerce/online stores because they don't want to spend money/time on it.
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Aug 2, 2018 21:09
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Haifisch posted:Chicago did something like that with their Ventra transit cards, where you could opt-in to use them as as a prepaid debit card(with loads of fees) as well. To nobody's surprise, usage was so low that they're quietly phasing the debit functionality out as cards expire. LOL, government is just another word for what we do together... which apparently is "screw the little guy."
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Aug 2, 2018 21:26
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My bank is small and has chip/pin but doesn't support Google Pay.
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Aug 2, 2018 21:26
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Wait what, in America are MasterCard and Visa not standard issue cards no matter what the bank is?
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Aug 2, 2018 23:58
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Solaris 2.0 posted:Brookstone is shutting down all of its mall retail stores. Damnit now theres nowhere in the mall to just sit in a massage chair and screw around with remote control drones.
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Aug 3, 2018 00:13
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Noctone posted:At least a couple of times it was my debit card tho. They shut the card down, sent me a new one and cancelled/refunded all the fraudulent charges. Yeah, my experience with Wells Fargo is that they’re actually hyper aggressive in the opposite direction with both debit and credit cards. They’ve gotten better, but I used to have my debit card cancelled and a new one sent almost every other year because of Wells misflagging suspicious activity. The one time my debit card actually was used maliciously they locked it down before I even knew anything was wrong.
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Aug 3, 2018 01:01
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learnincurve posted:Wait what, in America are MasterCard and Visa not standard issue cards no matter what the bank is? It's pretty rapidly standardizing to be that now, it'd be rare to not have that at this point but in the fairly recent past "ATM cards" were a thing, where it was literally just a card to work with the ATM for your bank, then that sort of opened up for it to be an ATM card that was also accepted as a debit card, then that evolved to "we teamed up with visa for all these cards so it's a debit card that goes over that network" and now most all of them are "it goes over the visa/mastercard network and it can do the transaction as credit card if the thing isn't compatible with debit transactions for some weird reason". I think barely anyone at this point has a debit card that isn't just visa/mastercard branded, but it wasn't ages ago that ATM card stuff was a thing like, your mom would have, from having an account a while and not changing anything.
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Aug 3, 2018 02:28
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Liquid Communism posted:Speaking of failing companies, Moviepass has finally burned through their venture cap funding and is effectively out of business. Um, sir, actually, furthermore, ergo, https://www.cnet.com/news/were-still-standing-says-moviepass-in-extremely-defensive-statement/
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Aug 3, 2018 03:40
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learnincurve posted:U.K. switched over to Chip and pin in February 2006. On that date 55% of all credit card transactions were chip and pin and by 2016 78.5% of all transactions were chip and pin. They make dogs pay to ride the bus?
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Aug 3, 2018 03:50
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In Texas you had to wave at the clerk so he could see that you were white and turn on the pump, otherwise you had to go inside and pre pay. This has mostly gone away with the adoption of pay-at-the pump.
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Aug 3, 2018 04:41
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Scaramouche posted:RE: US payment technology adoption, part of the problem is also that there are a tonne of weird little banks in the US that barely make the grade to issue credit cards, let alone upgrade systems to support new/other payment and security methodologies. Some of these banks don't even participate in the Address Verification System (AVS) used by a lot of ecommerce/online stores because they don't want to spend money/time on it. Yeah, it's a thing in the US that credit card companies want readers integrated in to the POS system, and upgrading is a huge expense for small businesses.
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Aug 3, 2018 07:10
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Beachcomber posted:They make dogs pay to ride the bus? Its a socialist country, everyone pays to ride the bus. 30p for birds, 40p for cats and 50p for dogs.
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Aug 3, 2018 08:13
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Lambert posted:Except getting your card swiped and disputing charges is really annoying. I'd rather have a more secure system. Yeah, less fraud + no customer liability would be better. But I'd take a system where I have to occasionally dispute a charge, but am never liable over one where there's rarely fraud but I'm on the hook for it if it does happen.
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Aug 3, 2018 08:22
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Foxfire_ posted:Yeah, less fraud + no customer liability would be better. But I'd take a system where I have to occasionally dispute a charge, but am never liable over one where there's rarely fraud but I'm on the hook for it if it does happen. I mean, considering how high transaction fees are in the US, everyone is paying quite a bit for this lack of security. I'd rather have a secure system and reasonable consumer protections.
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Aug 3, 2018 08:57
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serious gaylord posted:Its a socialist country, everyone pays to ride the bus. 30p for birds, 40p for cats and 50p for dogs. It also means that when an elderly person, who gets free travel, gives you evil looks and gets overprotective of their shopping you can point to the dog and say “he paid for his seat” This bus ticket has quite a lot going on here including capitalism and our payment system. (I’m not doxing myself it’s the second leg of a journey to Rother Valley)  The five McDonald’s vouchers on the back of the ticket are worth more than the cost of the ticket.
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Aug 3, 2018 10:15
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PT6A posted:You could pump before paying in Alberta until... this year, I think? Two people got run over trying to stop thieves, though, and now we can't have nice things. What makes it nicer? For me it's always been the same amount of time to swipe the card before vs. after and I really have no preference. Lambert posted:I mean, considering how high transaction fees are in the US, everyone is paying quite a bit for this lack of security. I thought those mostly paid for reward points. Looking up some numbers I get something like 7 billion in fraud over 3 trillion in purchases in 2016, which is notable but far from the biggest factor.
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Aug 3, 2018 10:20
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learnincurve posted:It also means that when an elderly person, who gets free travel, gives you evil looks and gets overprotective of their shopping you can point to the dog and say “he paid for his seat” This is blowing my mind slightly. I mean, I guess logically it makes sense. But the mental image of a ticket inspector asking to see the dog's ticket is just a bit crazy.
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Aug 3, 2018 13:05
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I like the fact that they stated that it was for an acompanied dog, like there is a different ticket a dog can buy if he’s on his own. Edit also: “Dog paid cash”
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Aug 3, 2018 13:06
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Dylan16807 posted:What makes it nicer? For me it's always been the same amount of time to swipe the card before vs. after and I really have no preference. If you pay cash, you have to go in two times now. It's basically exactly the same either way if you pay at the pump.
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Aug 3, 2018 14:04
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learnincurve posted:Wait what, in America are MasterCard and Visa not standard issue cards no matter what the bank is? Visa and MC have agreements with merchants and banks, but they just set the floor. Banks often overachieve e.g., they normally waive the $50 fraud limit. And there are things that aren't covered/required e.g., how to do fraud detection. Also, Visa 'credit' cards are completely different than Visa 'debit' cards. The laws for 'credit' cards were written decades ago, when they were mostly issued by retailers and mostly to rich people. The laws for 'debit' cards were written about 20 years ago, mostly by banks. Thus, as a consumer, you usually want a credit card.
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Aug 3, 2018 16:36
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serious gaylord posted:Its a socialist country, everyone pays to ride the bus. 30p for birds, 40p for cats and 50p for dogs. In my socialist country dogs ride for free 
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Aug 3, 2018 16:54
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Liquid Communism posted:Yeah, it's a thing in the US that credit card companies want readers integrated in to the POS system, and upgrading is a huge expense for small businesses. That's part of it, but I'm more talking about the Big Iron on the bank side than individual terminals. I'm not sure if it's the case (not American) but it seems like there isn't much barrier to entry in setting up a "bank" in the USA from a technology perspective, with the bare minimum being able to handle ACH/domestic inter bank transfer (maybe?). I've worked in ecommerce for years, and sometimes a Canadian company will need a US-resident style account just to handle currency issues/tax nexus. Sometimes those banks look like businesses in name only, that don't offer online services, don't offer credit/debit cards, only yearly printed statements, and things like cheques taking 6 weeks to arrive and having a weird transit number because the bank in question is obviously using another bank's routing network because they can't be arsed to set up their own. So take that kind of shoe string operation and then tell them "oh yeah we need you to support (x) and upgrades are on your dime" they are probably not going to go forward with it.
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Aug 3, 2018 21:31
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Alhazred posted:In my socialist country dogs ride for free Is this like the feral dogs in Moscow who ride the subway
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Aug 4, 2018 06:16
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Alhazred posted:In my socialist country dogs ride for free Given that much of this forum lives in remorseless, dysfunctional capitalist dystopias, please don't twist the knife.
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Aug 4, 2018 22:28
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Alhazred posted:In my socialist country dogs ride for free Dogs can ride for free in a lot of places in the UK. It's just Stagecoach is a money-grabbing company that'd probably charge by weight if they could get away with it.
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Aug 5, 2018 02:13
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PT6A posted:Also, what I discovered one time is that if you pre-auth $20 to obtain $20 of gas, the last 2 litres or so dribble out like a 90-year-old's pissstream because gently caress forbid you get 3 cents worth of free gas. You got off lucky. Go to the right lovely gas-and-go and the dribble cuts in 15 seconds into your filling and there's no stops for the lever so you can even wipe your windshield or clean trash out of your car while you wait. I've actually gone back in and gotten a refund because I didn't want to waste all that time.
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Aug 5, 2018 02:38
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