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^^ The indigenous peoples of the Americas were far more advanced than people give them credit for. Like, consider the Wichita city recently discovered in Kansas that housed over 20,000 people, or the remnants of Hopewell trade and expeditions here in Ohio that stretch all the way out to Yellowstone, Maine, and Florida, or the Peubloan cliff dwellers in Mesa Verde whose cement is still standing today, while restoration work done in the 40's is already crumbling. Just consider that if Europeans hadn't brought over diseases that killed upwards of 95% of the indigenous population, the US would likely still belong to the native inhabitants. I would say it's drat near certain all the peaks had long been climbed, though the traces are now goneDukket posted:Does anyone have an opinion on the Granite Gear Crown/2 series vs Gregory Optic series? Some of the people I've backpacked with had the lightweight Gregory packs and they like them for what it's worth. I've got a Zpacks Arc Haul, and it's hands down the best pack I've ever had. Initially I did experience an issue with a support bar coming free from its insert, but I contacted Zpacks and they took it back and fixed the stitching for me, no questions asked. Plus, the pack was only a hundred bucks more than my Osprey, and so the little stuff like comfort and the size/location of hipbelt pockets blow the Osprey out of the water.
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Aug 1, 2018 17:18
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Dukket posted:Does anyone have an opinion on the Granite Gear Crown/2 series vs Gregory Optic series? Pack fit varies widely from person to person and is probably both the most important and most neglected factor when deciding on a pack, so it's probably best to try as many as possible within your specifications. That said, pack fit becomes a lot more forgiving if your total pack weight is very low. On that note, the two models you mention span ~2.0-2.5 lbs and cost ~200 bucks, and there are a *lot* of packs in that range of weight and price, including some that are both lighter and cheaper if those are the two metrics that matter most to you. For example the ULA equipment CDT is only 1 lb 8 oz and costs ~150 bucks or less, but its completely frameless and would not work well for loads much above 15 lbs... Apart from how well the pack fits, there are a lot of considerations like how long of a trip do you need to support (i.e. do you need to fit a giant bear can), are you doing mostly on trail hiking or also other things, how important or unimportant are external attachment features and what kind, how much stuff you will be carrying both in terms of weight and volume...Things like this may rule out certain packs or make others better or worse options. Anyway the Crown2 certainly seems popular, and my girlfriend is very happy with a much much older version of a similar pack for what that's worth. Gergory packs have never fit me worth a poo poo so I can't really comment.
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Aug 2, 2018 01:23
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Morbus posted:Pack fit varies widely from person to person and is probably both the most important and most neglected factor when deciding on a pack, so it's probably best to try as many as possible within your specifications. That said, pack fit becomes a lot more forgiving if your total pack weight is very low. "probably both the most important and most neglected factor when deciding on a pack" - I buy that This particular trip will be eight nights, our longest trip so far by several days So far none of our trips have required a bear can, but our dreams seem to be further west and north. With food and water I think I'll be around 25lbs, probably closer to 30. I have not needed any external lashing so far... I decided on $200ish, not really sure where I got that number, but I really start to cringe above that. This may change in the future, but its where I'm at atm. The Ospry I have now was a handmedown and feels pretty good, but all other Ospreys I've tried on just haven't been comfortable. On the granite Gear sizing chart I have the top of the Med and Low end of Long
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Aug 2, 2018 05:05
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Ah, for an 8 night trip and up to 30 lbs weight you probably want to avoid any of the totally frameless designs like the ULA CDT I mentioned, unless you plan on improvising your own framesheet. Even packs like the crown 2, which have a plastic framesheet but not a carbon or aluminum frame, *may* become less than ideal around 30 lbs. That being said, fit really is the most important thing when it comes to carrying comfort...I have a pack that is basically a ripstop nylon trashcan with only a thin plastic framesheet, a strip of webbing for a hip belt and barely padded shoulder straps, and that pack carries a 40 lbs load more comfortably than my aluminum framed Exos 58 simply because the fit of the hip belt, shoulder straps, and pack against my back are all better. If possible, buying a few packs from somewhere with a decent return policy, trying them, and returning the ones you don't keep is a good option. If you're in the middle of the torso length sizing, best bet is just try both. Some people say if you're in the middle it's better to go with the smaller, some people say go bigger...nobody knows and it all depends. And anyway there are lots of ways a pack can fit poorly even if the torso length is correct. For a pack with a framesheet similar to the the Crown2, the Gossamer Gear Mariposa is another popular option that weighs 2 lbs for 60L and is ~225$ now. For packs that weigh around 2lbs, with a frame, apart from the Gregory Optic (which you mentioned) and the Osprey Exos (which apparently may not fit you well), the ULA Ohm2 and Circuit are other similar options. Again, I'm not really sold on frames being necessarily better than simple framesheets for carrying loads in the 30 lbs range, but the general wisdom (at least among backpackers...) is that the rigid framed packs are a bit better once you go above 25-30 lbs or so. One last thing to consider is volume. Depending on your other gear, ~40L might be pushing it if you ever need to carry a large bear canister inside the pack, though it should be OK if you pack carefully and have low volume gear. For much above $200, you are generally paying for relatively modest (~10 oz) weight reductions, which IMO don't matter if you're hauling around 20-30 lbs. But for your shorter trips it might be nice, I dunno.
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Aug 2, 2018 07:28
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Morbus posted:Ah, for an 8 night trip and up to 30 lbs weight you probably want to avoid any of the totally frameless designs like the ULA CDT I mentioned, unless you plan on improvising your own framesheet. Even packs like the crown 2, which have a plastic framesheet but not a carbon or aluminum frame, *may* become less than ideal around 30 lbs. That being said, fit really is the most important thing when it comes to carrying comfort...I have a pack that is basically a ripstop nylon trashcan with only a thin plastic framesheet, a strip of webbing for a hip belt and barely padded shoulder straps, and that pack carries a 40 lbs load more comfortably than my aluminum framed Exos 58 simply because the fit of the hip belt, shoulder straps, and pack against my back are all better. If possible, buying a few packs from somewhere with a decent return policy, trying them, and returning the ones you don't keep is a good option. If you're in the middle of the torso length sizing, best bet is just try both. Some people say if you're in the middle it's better to go with the smaller, some people say go bigger...nobody knows and it all depends. And anyway there are lots of ways a pack can fit poorly even if the torso length is correct. This may be a bit disjointed **Correction - current pack is a Lowe Alpine Contour IV, not an Osprey** Its a heavy pack Things may change, but under the assumption that I only want one pack at a time, at this basic price point and am not interested in constant buying and selling of gear. I recognize that is won't be my last pack. Despite my pack being old, I've been on fewer than a dozen bping trips - Yellowstone, a few places in MI and WI - so I'm still replacing some of the intro and handmedown gear aaannnnd I'm gear neurotic. Add to that a certain amount of choice paralysis, there are just so many packs out there. Oh yeah, I ruled out frameless for sure. My hope is that this pack is my first and probably biggest step toward a meaningfully lighter load. I'm pretty sure I'll never get down to UL, but lighter would be nice. Cost/weight/durability - At sub three lbs I just can't see adding a 1/3 of the cost for less than a lb of weight savings and probably reduced durability. I had looked the Gossamer Gear Mariposa - its $225, until you add the hipbelt then its 270, seems like a slippery slope to me.  I was skeptical of the the frame sheet idea at first, in vids the look really flimsy, but it doesn't seem like its just ULers who like them. I assume I need 55+ L pack I need to make time to get down to REI and just try packs on (again). The last time I went I liked Deuter, didn't like Osprey, don't remember beyond that.
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Aug 2, 2018 16:05
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Lmao i didn't realize the Mariposa was like 40 bucks extra for the luxury of a hipbelt. Takes some balls to charge as much as a daypack for what amounts to some webbing with padding and a pouch. I'd say try out the Exos, Optic, Crown 2 and Ohm 2.0 if you can and just go with whatever fits best. And yeah it's definitely not just UL backpackers who use packs with framesheets. A lot of mountaineering packs forgo rigid frames for foam or plastic framesheets, and no matter how light the rest of your gear is adding in ice tools, crampons, climbing gear, a shovel, avalanche equipment, winter shelter & clothing and perhaps snowshoes/skis means those loads are necessarily much heavier than the "ultralight" cutoff where rigid frames are conventionally considered optimal. Those packs remove rigid frames mainly as a compromise between load carrying ability vs. not restricting movement, not because such a design is better for carrying heavier loads...but if people are carrying 60 lbs of poo poo up Denali with only folded foam bivy pads as "framesheets" it's hard to ague that you are going to injure yourself and be miserable backpacking with a 25lb load if you don't have the latest and greatest space age frame and ~*~active suspension~*~.
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Aug 3, 2018 05:13
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Morbus posted:Lmao i didn't realize the Mariposa was like 40 bucks extra for the luxury of a hipbelt. Takes some balls to charge as much as a daypack for what amounts to some webbing with padding and a pouch. Yeah, that was my thought exactly on the hip belt, but there you go. My plan is to get down to REI today to see what I can see. I've left this a bit to the last min, but such is life. I still have time to get some practice walks in for a proper feel of the fit. I just can't express enough how much I'm looking forward to this trip, I've been wanting to do this trip for many years. Thanks for your thoughts.
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Aug 3, 2018 15:36
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Picked up a used Zpacks Altaplex in .75oz spruce green DCF. I was sad when Zpacks phased them out for the Plexamid, because it's really one of the only UL 1P shelter options for me at 6'3" without feeling too cramped. 19oz! Going to test it out with some beach camping this weekend.
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Aug 3, 2018 19:48
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khysanth posted:Picked up a used Zpacks Altaplex in .75oz spruce green DCF. I was sad when Zpacks phased them out for the Plexamid, because it's really one of the only UL 1P shelter options for me at 6'3" without feeling too cramped. It's not quite 19oz, but the LightHeart SoLong 6 is well liked for tall people. https://lightheartgear.com/products/lightheart-solong-6
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Aug 3, 2018 21:58
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Idle curiosity for all y’all hammock campers out there, I remembered I’ve got some old lightweight travel hammock buried in my gear somewhere, but figured it was prudent to have some mosquito netting or something to throw over it, and wasn’t sure whether I needed to get a net tailored to this specific make and model, or if I can just grab whatever online and call it good? Probably would help to actually have that make and model info on hand, but that’d require digging it out before posting, which is clearly far too much work.
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Aug 3, 2018 23:33
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If it is a sock type net your only worry should be that it isn't too short for your hammock. Also you should have a ridge line to keep the thing off your face.
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Aug 4, 2018 00:01
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I’ve had to sleep in my 2door Jeep Wrangler at trailheads a couple times and it’s not the most comfortable since it’s impossible to stretch out. I found out a hammock fits perfectly from corner to corner on the rollbar and tried that last weekend. Game changer!
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Aug 4, 2018 15:22
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Tigren posted:It's not quite 19oz, but the LightHeart SoLong 6 is well liked for tall people. That was on my radar early on when I was just starting to get into ultralight, but it weighs more than my current 2 person setup. No doubt that's one of the only options for REALLY tall hikers though.
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Aug 4, 2018 17:27
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Does anyone carry bear mace? I was camping last night, and as I was cooking breakfast today I spotted a trio of black bears across the river from me, maybe 2-300 feet away. They turned around almost as soon as I saw them, I think because they saw me moving, but it was equal parts scary and amazing. Hanging smellables isn't much good when you're eating them 
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Aug 5, 2018 20:18
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Chard posted:Does anyone carry bear mace? I was camping last night, and as I was cooking breakfast today I spotted a trio of black bears across the river from me, maybe 2-300 feet away. They turned around almost as soon as I saw them, I think because they saw me moving, but it was equal parts scary and amazing. Hanging smellables isn't much good when you're eating them I do, but I’ve also never had cause to use it, the only bears I’ve ever seen are wandering around my yard at home or off at a reasonable distance. It’s always been my experience they’ll take off as soon as they notice you, black bears are giant cowards, though seeing several together is certainly more concerning, I’d just as soon keep far away from a mother and her cubs. I also always wear bear bells, but that really doesn’t work to keep bears aware of you/give them advance warning so they take off (apparently, I just bothered to look into it the other week). I keep it up since at this point it’s more a family tradition than anything else; my great grandmother gave them to my dad when he moved to Montana for college, and she got them off a horse sleigh harness her family brought over when emigrating to the US.
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Aug 5, 2018 21:02
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Bells don't work? I'm a pretty noisy hiker and have a bad habit of singing/talking to myself and always figured that would be enough to let critters know I'm coming... As for the mace I don't ever want to have to use it, I guess I'm just wondering whether it's effective in emergency situations.
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Aug 5, 2018 21:18
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Chard posted:Bells don't work? I'm a pretty noisy hiker and have a bad habit of singing/talking to myself and always figured that would be enough to let critters know I'm coming... As for the mace I don't ever want to have to use it, I guess I'm just wondering whether it's effective in emergency situations. By what I read there isn’t a ton of research to begin with, but while making noise in general is a good idea, there wasn’t much to indicate bears take much notice of bells, and just kind of ignore them. There was some debate though, it’s just not significantly clear the bells are helpful.
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Aug 5, 2018 21:26
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Chard posted:Bells don't work? I'm a pretty noisy hiker and have a bad habit of singing/talking to myself and always figured that would be enough to let critters know I'm coming... As for the mace I don't ever want to have to use it, I guess I'm just wondering whether it's effective in emergency situations. Allegedly bear spray is more effective than a gun. That being said, I'd rather have a gun. I have heard stories of predatory black bears getting sprayed, but then coming back around once their eyes stop burning. Thats not something I'd like to encounter. Most black ears are pussies, as said, but the predatory ones will gently caress you up if they really want to. Bear spray, and bear bangers help, but your results may vary.......
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Aug 5, 2018 21:27
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Bells are meant to prevent bears from getting spooked by your approach when they're gorging and not paying attention to their surroundings. If you're close up by the time a bear realizes your there they may decide to lash out rather than run off.
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Aug 5, 2018 21:36
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Thaddius the Large posted:By what I read there isn’t a ton of research to begin with, but while making noise in general is a good idea, there wasn’t much to indicate bears take much notice of bells, and just kind of ignore them. There was some debate though, it’s just not significantly clear the bells are helpful. Terrifying Effigies posted:Bells are meant to prevent bears from getting spooked by your approach when they're gorging and not paying attention to their surroundings. If you're close up by the time a bear realizes your there they may decide to lash out rather than run off. I should probably get something anyway, since I'm almost always out by myself and any measure of extra safety I can add is a good idea. Or at least learn some more songs to sing. wesleywillis posted:Allegedly bear spray is more effective than a gun. That being said, I'd rather have a gun. I have heard stories of predatory black bears getting sprayed, but then coming back around once their eyes stop burning. Thats not something I'd like to encounter. Guns aren't an option for me, and while I've never heard of a bear coming back on someone who maced it I wouldn't write it off. Do you have a link on that by any chance? What I have heard is that if you're in a situation where the bear is killing angry it's just going to shrug off the pain until it's done anyway... point being to avoid getting there in the first place.
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Aug 5, 2018 22:06
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It's foolish to reject an option because it's not 100% effective. Bear pepper spray works usually, and that's way better than having nothing at all to deter a bear that has decided it wants to eat your backpack, or thinks your sunscreen smells delicious, or is just startled and getting too close for comfort. Black bears are very unlikely to kill you, but they do, rarely, kill people. If you're in an area with bears, bear spray is proven to be highly successful at deterring bears and it's not really that heavy or obnoxious to carry. Especially if you're already spending weight on a bear canister for your food. e. Even if a bear is "killing angry", disabling its vision and smell (which is what bear spray right to the face definitely does) may give you a chance to escape, and that's a better option than just not having any way to escape. Which is definitely the case if a bear is "killing angry" and you don't have a way to kill it first, because they can run, climb, and swim much faster than you can, and they can also get into your car very easily. Leperflesh fucked around with this message at 23:01 on Aug 5, 2018 |
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Aug 5, 2018 22:59
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I don't pretend to be any kind of expert on bears, and if the post I made was factually incorrect I apologize. Guns aren't an option for me personally because of mental health issues. My political opinions include backpackers and other wilderness activity registering a firearm permit for personal protection, and in more dangerous regions than the one I was in that may be appropriate. I was asking about specific examples of bears coming back after being maced because I've never heard of that and if it's an issue I would like to be informed. Please do not interpret anything I've posted as less than an absolute, total defense of your own life in immediate danger.
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Aug 6, 2018 01:05
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wesleywillis posted:Allegedly bear spray is more effective than a gun. That being said, I'd rather have a gun. I have heard stories of predatory black bears getting sprayed, but then coming back around once their eyes stop burning. Thats not something I'd like to encounter. I would rather have a can of bear spray than a gun of equivalent weight.
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Aug 6, 2018 09:40
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Bear spray has a much better chance of stopping a charging bear in time to benefit you than a gun does. If you do want to use a gun, it's probably smarter to use the spray first, then use the time the spray gives you to start retreating and get your gun ready in case you need to use it. It's always better to not kill something if you don't have to.
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Aug 6, 2018 13:08
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This is the one I was specifically thinking of, http://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=41522 Here is another one. Similar thing, the bear was sprayed, but it wasn't an immediate deterrent. https://www.myccr.com/phpbbforum/viewtopic.php?f=113&t=45195 I don't want to open the can of worms, and strt some big argument of bear spray vs guns but here are a few of my thoughts. Agree or disagree, its just what I think. For me its probably a psychological thing. Gun = maybe kill bear, bear spray = only chase it away. The odds of course of even seeing a bear, are relatively slim, and the odds of getting my rear end kicked by a bear are even slimmer. You know, like better chance of me dying in a crash on the way to/from camping trip, better odds of getting hit by lightning etc.... Thats all. I swear I'm not trying to start a debate on guns vs bear spray. If having a gun helps me relax, and enjoy myself a bit more, I personally have a hard time arguing against it. Edited wesleywillis fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Aug 6, 2018 |
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Aug 6, 2018 16:10
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I like bear spray because you can, well, spray it, and I’m a horrific shot, unless I’m carrying a shotgun I’m not likely to hit anything smaller than a bus, and that’s with time to aim and absent the pressure of a bear charging at my face.
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Aug 6, 2018 16:19
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I just wrap my hiking partners in meat to keep the bears away from me.  I hike alone a lot now.
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Aug 6, 2018 19:17
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You don't need specialist equipment for bear protection. Covering yourself in Vegemite will protect you from drop bears and you will already have Vegemite anyway.
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Aug 6, 2018 22:17
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wesleywillis posted:Thats all. I swear I'm not trying to start a debate on guns vs bear spray. If having a gun helps me relax, and enjoy myself a bit more, I personally have a hard time arguing against it. The only part I took (and take) issue with, is gun instead of bear spray. If you can legally carry your gun, then feel free to do so; but I would encourage you to also bring bear spray. It is not 100% effective, but it is a lot more than 0% effective, and it would be good to not have your only option be to shoot a bear, especially in some situation where the bear is not actively trying to kill you and just needs to be deterred so you can safely leave. But there's no big deal here, it's all good friend.
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Aug 6, 2018 23:07
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Leperflesh posted:The only part I took (and take) issue with, is gun instead of bear spray. If you can legally carry your gun, then feel free to do so; but I would encourage you to also bring bear spray. It is not 100% effective, but it is a lot more than 0% effective, and it would be good to not have your only option be to shoot a bear, especially in some situation where the bear is not actively trying to kill you and just needs to be deterred so you can safely leave. Understood, and in all that, I neglected to mention that it would be gun + spray. And maybe some bangers for good measure. Mace that bitch and fill'em full o' lead!
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Aug 7, 2018 01:44
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Anyone had experience with the Lanshan 2 tent? Seems like a pretty good deal even with import taxes and fees, especially considering the ridiculous prices on outdoor stuff here in Sweden. Some additional seam-sealing appears to be required, but that's no biggie.
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Aug 7, 2018 10:35
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anatomi posted:Anyone had experience with the Lanshan 2 tent? Seems like a pretty good deal even with import taxes and fees, especially considering the ridiculous prices on outdoor stuff here in Sweden. Sure, I have one. I've had it for about a year now, and I've used it for camping out maybe like 10 nights or so with my wife and small dog. I really like the tent, and it feels like great quality. There's the small issue with some seam-sealing, but as you say that really isn't a big deal. I love the fact that you can open it up entirely on both sides. I haven't used it without the outer tent, but you can do it. (That's what the extra blue line is for) I am 178cm tall, and I don't touch the inner, but if you're a taller person then probably get something longer or lay diagonally in it if you're alone. I've purchased some carbon poles at 125cm length to use with it, when we use it in Denmark, as there's no reason to carry hiking poles when the entire country is flat as a pancake. The 125 cm poles do have the effect of raising the apsis a lot, so if you want to use it in really rough weather, then use hiking poles or shorter poles with it. I made a short video about it. It's in Danish, but I've added english subtitles to it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7dZ5S5fHzps
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Aug 7, 2018 15:33
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-Anders posted:Sure, I have one. I've had it for about a year now, and I've used it for camping out maybe like 10 nights or so with my wife and small dog. I do use trekking poles, so good to know about the apsis height.
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Aug 7, 2018 16:03
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What do folks here do about their legs while backing packing in the rain in mid to low 60's. I run very hot so I'm really hesitant to wear rain pants. I thought about getting a rain kilt or ditching my rain jacket and getting a poncho.
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Aug 8, 2018 13:18
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My engine also runs hot. At those temps I usually just wear shorts, but sometimes I'll supplement with merino or bamboo underpants. If you're expecting continual rain I think a poncho is a good idea, if you can find one with decent ventilation.
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Aug 8, 2018 13:47
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anatomi posted:My engine also runs hot. At those temps I usually just wear shorts, but sometimes I'll supplement with merino or bamboo underpants. If you're expecting continual rain I think a poncho is a good idea, if you can find one with decent ventilation. Yeah, it not cold, I guess it's a bit of a dumb question.
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Aug 8, 2018 14:44
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Shorts only down to the 40s for me.
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Aug 8, 2018 16:20
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Dukket posted:What do folks here do about their legs while backing packing in the rain in mid to low 60's. I run very hot so I'm really hesitant to wear rain pants. I thought about getting a rain kilt or ditching my rain jacket and getting a poncho. I go the rain jacket + kilt combo and I love it. It stays ventilated down below and I don't overheat. I've never hiked in a poncho so I don't know how it compares, but the rain kilt is awesome.
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Aug 8, 2018 17:05
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Dukket posted:Does anyone have an opinion on the Granite Gear Crown/2 series vs Gregory Optic series? If anyone cares I tried Granite Gear Crown2 regular and large Gregory Optic. Med and large Sierra design Flex Capacitor I dont seem to have the vocabulary for the descriptions so... The Gregory's just didn't fit right, though the large felt better. I just could not get the weight off my shoulders. Crown2, the large fit better and it generally felt pretty good. I think could be perfectly happy with it. Seems like it sits lower, which with a sleeping bag at the bottom probably wouldn't matter as much. The Flex felt more...natural? Better centered? I was able to fit more weight bags (5more lbs) into the flex and it still felt better than the others. There are some feature compromises, but we'll see how it goes. I'm going to load it up with my gear go on some walks around town
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Aug 8, 2018 18:30
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Dukket posted:What do folks here do about their legs while backing packing in the rain in mid to low 60's. I run very hot so I'm really hesitant to wear rain pants. I thought about getting a rain kilt or ditching my rain jacket and getting a poncho. Seconding kilt but I've never been in a huge downpour to really test it out.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:28
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