Tolkien's Middle-Earth: He was just Beorn this way

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Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

I realize this is the hot takes zone but I think Gandalf just punting Frodo into Mt Doom, 300-style, would be pretty out of character.

Edit: funny though

# ? Aug 3, 2018 18:12

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 12:47

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Ginette Reno posted:

Wonder what they'd have done if Sauron won though. Would the Gods be content to sit by while Sauron had dominion over all of Middle Earth?

Maybe. No elves would be there anymore tho. So it would just be for men.

Who knows the Valar change their mind.

# ? Aug 3, 2018 18:16

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Pham Nuwen posted:

I realize this is the hot takes zone but I think Gandalf just punting Frodo into Mt Doom, 300-style, would be pretty out of character.

Edit: funny though

Specifically I'd picture it being once he claimed it as his own and was revealed to Sauron, not like they finally get there and he gives him sweet chin music off the cliff.

WoodrowSkillson fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Aug 3, 2018

# ? Aug 3, 2018 18:33

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I was def picturing something like Thanos earning the soul stone.

# ? Aug 3, 2018 18:34

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Pham Nuwen posted:

I realize this is the hot takes zone but I think Gandalf just punting Frodo into Mt Doom, 300-style, would be pretty out of character.

Edit: funny though

That's basically the ending of Bored of the Rings. Frito and Spam tie the ring to Goddam and punt him into a mud pit.

# ? Aug 3, 2018 18:55

sassassin: Apr 3, 2010; by Azathoth

Pham Nuwen posted:

I realize this is the hot takes zone but I think Gandalf just punting Frodo into Mt Doom, 300-style, would be pretty out of character.

Edit: funny though

He says himself that he would happily throw Pippin down a well if it would do any good at all. Frodo in a volcano to save the (middle) Earth is no great stretch.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 01:46

Heithinn Grasida: Mar 28, 2005; ...must attack and fall upon them with a gallant bearing and a fearless heart, and, if possible, vanquish and destroy them, even though they have for armour the shells of a certain fish, that they say are harder than diamonds, and in place of swords wield trenchant blades of Damascus steel...

Pham Nuwen posted:

I realize this is the hot takes zone but I think Gandalf just punting Frodo into Mt Doom, 300-style, would be pretty out of character.

Edit: funny though

To answer seriously, Frodo got really hosed up by his quest, beyond the normal capacity of things in middle earth to heal. Gandalf absolutely knew that, or worse, was going to happen and sent Frodo anyway. If he was there at the crack of doom, he probably wouldn�t have just punted Frodo into the fire, but he likely would have used force to make him throw away the ring. Which would have wrecked what was left of Frodo completely.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 01:57

Bongo Bill: Jan 17, 2012

Gandalf was a Maia of Aul� and as such was not above breaking a few eggs for his omelet.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 02:00

Ynglaur: Oct 9, 2013; The Malta Conference, anyone?

Heithinn Grasida posted:

To answer seriously, Frodo got really hosed up by his quest, beyond the normal capacity of things in middle earth to heal. Gandalf absolutely knew that, or worse, was going to happen and sent Frodo anyway. If he was there at the crack of doom, he probably wouldn’t have just punted Frodo into the fire, but he likely would have used force to make him throw away the ring. Which would have wrecked what was left of Frodo completely.

I think Gandalf may have tried to convince, but I don't think he would have compelled, until and unless the temptation of the Ring drove him to it. Gandalf knew the sacredness of free will.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 02:56

Narmer: Dec 11, 2011

Bongo Bill posted:

Gandalf was a Maia of Aul� and as such was not above breaking a few eggs for his omelet.

In the Istari chapter of Unfinished Tales it's Curumo/Saruman who was a Maia of Aule. Olorin/Gandalf is associated variously with Manwe, Varda, Irmo, and Nienna but never with Aule, with Manwe being the one who chooses Olorin to be one of the Istari. Interestingly Curumo volunteered to travel to Middle-Earth, wheras Olorin had to be ordered to go.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 03:14

Ravenfood: Nov 4, 2011

Bongo Bill posted:

Gandalf was a Maia of Aul� and as such was not above breaking a few eggs for his omelet.

He's Manwe's, with Nienna a close second.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 03:20

Bongo Bill: Jan 17, 2012

Was he? I thought he and Saruman were both Aul�'s.

Guess I'll just have to reread the entire Silmarillion again.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 03:29

sweet geek swag: Mar 29, 2006; Adjust lasers to FUN!

I think you are confusing him with Sauron.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 03:50

Ginette Reno: Nov 18, 2006; How Doers get more done; Fun Shoe

Heithinn Grasida posted:

To answer seriously, Frodo got really hosed up by his quest, beyond the normal capacity of things in middle earth to heal. Gandalf absolutely knew that, or worse, was going to happen and sent Frodo anyway. If he was there at the crack of doom, he probably wouldn�t have just punted Frodo into the fire, but he likely would have used force to make him throw away the ring. Which would have wrecked what was left of Frodo completely.

Gandalf actually says to Frodo that forcing him to give away/harm the ring by force would break Frodo's mind. So yeah, I think Gandalf probably wouldn't do that unless there were no other option.

There is also the question of if Gandalf even could try to harm the ring in Sauron's domain. Could Gandalf harm Frodo or would he lose his marbles and try to take the ring from Frodo instead? I don't know if anyone - even an Istari- could willingly destroy the ring.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 04:50

sunday at work: Apr 6, 2011; "Man is the animal that thinks something is wrong."

It's fitting that the Ring is ultimately undone through the narrow minded actions of the people fighting against each other to posses it. Those who have held it will always in the end try to claim it and in that pursuit they will lose all sight of any other concern to their own end.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 05:06

cheetah7071: Oct 20, 2010; honk honk; College Slice

It's a pretty strong recurring subtheme in LotR that doing the right thing in the immediate sense is also the right thing to do in a more zoomed out sense--e.g., sparing Gollum, Aragorn rushing to save Merry and Pippin, Faramir giving Frodo hospitality. There's no doubt in my mind that in the hypothetical situation where Gandalf is with Frodo at the cracks of doom, he wouldn't push him in, and if he did anyways, it would result in more evil.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 05:40

sassassin: Apr 3, 2010; by Azathoth

Ginette Reno posted:

Gandalf actually says to Frodo that forcing him to give away/harm the ring by force would break Frodo's mind. So yeah, I think Gandalf probably wouldn't do that unless there were no other option.

So you think he absolutely would do it.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 10:52

Runcible Cat: May 28, 2007; Ignoring this post

sassassin posted:

He says himself that he would happily throw Pippin down a well if it would do any good at all. Frodo in a volcano to save the (middle) Earth is no great stretch.

Who wouldn't happily throw Pippin down a well?

# ? Aug 4, 2018 12:09

sassassin: Apr 3, 2010; by Azathoth

Runcible Cat posted:

Who wouldn't happily throw Pippin down a well?

A friend.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 12:32

sweet geek swag: Mar 29, 2006; Adjust lasers to FUN!

sassassin posted:

He says himself that he would happily throw Pippin down a well if it would do any good at all. Frodo in a volcano to save the (middle) Earth is no great stretch.

He absolutely did not say he would throw Pippin down a well. He tells Pippin to throw himself in because he is angry at how stupid Pippin is being. And he clearly regrets saying it only a few hours later.

# ? Aug 4, 2018 20:18

Pentecoastal Elites: Feb 27, 2007

Wasn�t Sauron ultimately pretty much correct in thinking that Mt Doom didn�t need to be defended because in the extremely unlikely event that someone actually made it there they�d never be able to destroy the ring?

Frodo wasn�t going to and the only reason the thing went in was because of a once-an-age intervention from the creator of the universe (IIRC)

There are some eventualities you just can�t plan for.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 05:58

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Yes, the whole thing with Gollum was a providential thing to get the ring to kill itself in a situation where no one could willingly destroy it.

e: specifically, Gollum unwittingly commits suicide when he claims the ring because Frodo had just used the power of the ring to curse him:

quote:

�Begone, and trouble me no more! If you touch me ever again, you shall be cast yourself into the Fire of Doom.�

skasion fucked around with this message at 11:43 on Aug 6, 2018

# ? Aug 6, 2018 11:34

WoodrowSkillson: Feb 24, 2005; *Gestures at 60 years of Lions history*

Pentecoastal Elites posted:

Wasn’t Sauron ultimately pretty much correct in thinking that Mt Doom didn’t need to be defended because in the extremely unlikely event that someone actually made it there they’d never be able to destroy the ring?

Frodo wasn’t going to and the only reason the thing went in was because of a once-an-age intervention from the creator of the universe (IIRC)

There are some eventualities you just can’t plan for.

It's not Eru's intervention, it's Bilbo's act of mercy in sparing Gollum that leads to Gollum stealing the Ring and falling into a volcano.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 13:47

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

WoodrowSkillson posted:

It's not Eru's intervention, it's Bilbo's act of mercy in sparing Gollum that leads to Gollum stealing the Ring and falling into a volcano.

Well, that

I'd argue it's *also* the power of Evil turning on itself: Frodo. maddened by the Ring, invokes the Ring's power to curse Gollum such that if he ever touches the ring again he will be cast himself into the Pit. Then he does it anyway (because the Ring compels him) and he gets hit by the Curse and falls into the Crack, exactly as Frodo invoked.

Of course none of these causes are exclusive of one another necessarily

I've kinda wondered if the Dead that Aragorn calls weren't similarly Bound by the Ring while Isildur carried it.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 13:54

Lemniscate Blue: Apr 21, 2006; Here we go again.

I thought the Men of Erech swore to Isildur to fight with the Last Alliance, and refused to march against Sauron's forces in that war? Sauron still had the Ring at that point.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 14:57

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

Lemniscate Blue posted:

I thought the Men of Erech swore to Isildur to fight with the Last Alliance, and refused to march against Sauron's forces in that war? Sauron still had the Ring at that point.

Yeah, but he couldn�t very well have punished them for their faithlessness until after the war. Also it seems unlikely to me that he natively had the power to bind people to their oaths beyond death for thousands of years. Like no doubt he was pretty cool guy, but that seems like some hardcore magic.

e: that said, the way Aragorn tells the story, the whole business happened before Isildur went off to war.

skasion fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Aug 6, 2018

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:03

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

skasion posted:

Yeah, but he couldn�t very well have punished them for their faithlessness until after the war. Also it seems unlikely to me that he natively had the power to bind people to their oaths beyond death for thousands of years. Like no doubt he was pretty cool guy, but that seems like some hardcore magic.

Yeah, that's why I'm wondering about it, exactly. It's never really explained exactly how Isildur did that, and . . . there's a ring right there

The alternate theory is that the Dunharrow men were bound by their own Oath, not by Isildur, and there's some merit in that theory given the nature of Oaths in Middle-Earth (see, e.g., the Oath of the Feanorians), but I'm not sure that a vassalage oath is up to that level.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:09

skasion: Feb 13, 2012; Why don't you perform zazen, facing a wall?

I think Aragorn�s telling is a mite suspicious. What was Isildur doing looking for vassals that far up in Anorien? Hardly his purview.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:13

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Can you post the section of when Aragorn et al get to the Stone. I have a remembering that the stone by which they oathed May have been magical as well.

(I should really just buy the kindle version already)

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:14

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

quote:

�Not willingly,� said Gimli. �For upon that road I was put to shame: Gimli Gl�in�s son, who had deemed himself more tough than Men, and hardier under earth than any Elf. But neither did I prove; and I was held to the road only by the will of Aragorn.�

�And by the love of him also,� said Legolas. �For all those who come to know him come to love him after his own fashion, even the cold maiden of the Rohirrim. It was at early morn of the day ere you came there, Merry, that we left Dunharrow, and such a fear was on all the folk that none would look on our going, save the Lady �owyn, who lies now hurt in the House below. There was grief at that parting, and I was grieved to behold it.�

�Alas! I had heart only for myself,� said Gimli. �Nay! I will not speak of that journey.�

He fell silent; but Pippin and Merry were so eager for news that at last Legolas said: �I will tell you enough for your peace; for I felt not the horror, and I feared not the shadows of Men, powerless and frail as I deemed them.�

Swiftly then he told of the haunted road under the mountains, and the dark tryst at Erech, and the great ride thence, ninety leagues and three, to Pelargir on Anduin. �Four days and nights, and on into a fifth, we rode from the Black Stone,� he said. �And lo! in the darkness of Mordor my hope rose; for in that gloom the Shadow Host seemed to grow stronger and more terrible to look upon. Some I saw riding, some striding, yet all moving with the same great speed. Silent they were, but there was a gleam in their eyes. In the uplands of Lamedon they overtook our horses, and swept round us, and would have passed us by, if Aragorn had not forbidden them.

�At his command they fell back. �Even the shades of Men are obedient to his will,� I thought. �They may serve his needs yet! �

�One day of light we rode, and then came the day without dawn, and still we rode on, and Ciril and Ringl� we crossed; and on the third day we came to Linhir above the mouth of Gilrain. And there men of Lamedon contested the fords with fell folk of Umbar and Harad who had sailed up the river. But defenders and foes alike gave up the battle and fled when we came, crying out that the King of the Dead was upon them. Only Angbor, Lord of Lamedon, had the heart to abide us; and Aragorn bade him gather his folk and come behind, if they dared, when the Grey Host had passed.

� �At Pelargir the Heir of Isildur will have need of you,� he said.

�Thus we crossed over Gilrain, driving the allies of Mordor in rout before us; and then we rested a while. But soon Aragorn arose, saying: �Lo! already Minas Tirith is assailed. I fear that it will fall ere we come to its aid.� So we mounted again before night had passed and went on with all the speed that our horses could endure over the plains of Lebennin.�

Legolas paused and sighed, and turning his eyes southward softly he sang:

Silver flow the streams from Celos to Erui

In the green fields of Lebennin!

Tall grows the grass there. In the wind from the Sea

The white lilies sway,

And the golden bells are shaken of mallos and alfirin

In the green fields of Lebennin,

In the wind from the Sea!

�Green are those fields in the songs of my people; but they were dark then, grey wastes in the blackness before us. And over the wide land, trampling unheeded the grass and the flowers, we hunted our foes through a day and a night, until we came at the bitter end to the Great River at last.

�Then I thought in my heart that we drew near to the Sea; for wide was the water in the darkness, and sea-birds innumerable cried on its, shores. Alas for the wailing of the gulls! Did not the Lady tell me to beware of them? And now I cannot forget them.�

�For my part I heeded them not,� said Gimli; �for we came then at last upon battle in earnest. There at Pelargir lay the main fleet of Umbar, fifty great ships and smaller vessels beyond count. Many of those that we pursued had reached the havens before us, and brought their fear with them; and some of the ships had put off, seeking to escape down the River or to reach the far shore; and many of the smaller craft were ablaze. But the Haradrim, being now driven to the brink, turned at bay, and they were fierce in despair; and they laughed when they looked on us, for they were a great army still.

�But Aragorn halted and cried with a great voice: �Now come! By the Black Stone I call you! � And suddenly the Shadow Host that had hung back at the last came up like a grey tide, sweeping all away before it. Faint cries I heard, and dim horns blowing, and a murmur as of countless far voices: it was like the echo of some forgotten battle in the Dark Years long ago. Pale swords were drawn; but I know not whether their blades would still bite, for the Dead needed no longer any weapon but fear. None would withstand them.

�To every ship they came that was drawn up, and then they passed over the water to those that were anchored; and all the mariners were filled with a madness of terror and leaped overboard, save the slaves chained to the oars. Reckless we rode among our fleeing foes, driving them like leaves, until we came to the shore. And then to each of the great ships that remained Aragorn sent one of the D�nedain, and they comforted the captives that were aboard, and bade them put aside fear and be free.

�Ere that dark day ended none of the enemy were left to resist us all were drowned, or were flying south in the hope to find their own lands upon foot. Strange and wonderful I thought it that the designs of Mordor should be overthrown by such wraiths of fear and darkness. With its own weapons was it worsted!�

�Strange indeed,� said Legolas. �In that hour I looked on Aragorn and thought how great and terrible a Lord he might have become in the strength of his will, had he taken the Ring to himself. Not for naught does Mordor fear him. But nobler is his spirit than the understanding of Sauron; for is he not of the children of L�thien? Never shall that line fail, though the years may lengthen beyond count.�

�Beyond the eyes of the Dwarves are such foretellings,� said Gimli. �But mighty indeed was Aragorn that day. Lo! all the black fleet was in his hands; and he chose the greatest ship to be his own, and he went up into it. Then he let sound a great concourse of trumpets taken from the enemy; and the Shadow Host withdrew to the shore. There they stood silent, hardly to be seen, save for a red gleam in their eyes that caught the glare of the ships that were burning. And Aragorn spoke in a loud voice to the Dead Men, crying:

� �Hear now the words of the Heir of Isildur! Your oath is fulfilled. Go back and trouble not the valleys ever again! Depart and be at rest! �

�And thereupon the King of the Dead stood out before the host and broke his spear and cast it down. Then he bowed low and turned away; and swiftly the whole grey host drew off and vanished like a mist that is driven back by a sudden wind; and it seemed to me that I awoke from a dream.

�That night we rested while others laboured. For there were many captives set free, and many slaves released who had been folk of Gondor taken in raids; and soon also there was a great gathering of men out of Lebennin and the Ethir, and Angbor of Lamedon came up with all the horsemen that he could muster. Now that the fear of the Dead was removed they came to aid us and to look on the Heir of Isildur; for the rumour of that name had run like fire in the dark.

�And that is near the end of our tale. For during that evening and night many ships were made ready and manned; and in the morning the fleet set forth. Long past it now seems, yet it was but the morn of the day ere yesterday, the sixth since we rode from Dunharrow. But still Aragorn was driven by fear that time was too short.

You can generally find .txt versions of LotR online very easily.

The "by its own weapons was it worsted" makes me suspect the Ring was involved, but the breaking of an Oath may also be enough. Porque no los dos, etc.

Hieronymous Alloy fucked around with this message at 15:25 on Aug 6, 2018

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:21

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Thanks yeah I found the .mobi files.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:27

Trin Tragula: Apr 22, 2005

On the subject of the Stone of Erech itself:

quote:

'That we shall know if ever we come to Erech,� said Aragorn. �But the oath that they broke was to fight against Sauron, and
they must fight therefore, if they are to fulfil it. For at Erech there stands yet a black stone that was brought, it was
said, from N�menor by Isildur; and it was set upon a hill, and upon it the King of the Mountains swore allegiance to him in
the beginning of the realm of Gondor. But when Sauron returned and grew in might again, Isildur summoned the Men of the Mountains to fulfil their oath, and they would not: for they had worshipped Sauron in the Dark Years.
...
Long had the terror of the Dead lain upon that hill and upon the empty fields about it. For upon the top stood a black stone,
round as a great globe, the height of a man, though its half was buried in the ground. Unearthly it looked, as though it had
fallen from the sky, as some believed; but those who remembered still the lore of Westernesse told that it had been brought
out of the ruin of N�menor and there set by Isildur at his landing. None of the people of the valley dared to approach it,
nor would they dwell near; for they said that it was a trysting-place of the Shadow-men and there they would gather in times
of fear, thronging round the Stone and whispering.

Someone who knows more about Numenor than me can speculate on whether or not it is magical. I'm just having fun imagining Isildur trying to carry this enormous marble around with him without it constantly trying to escape and roll down the nearest hill.

Trin Tragula fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Aug 6, 2018

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:32

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

Here it is

quote:

For at Erech there stands yet a blackstone that was brought, it was said, from N�menor by Isildur; and it was setupon a hill, and upon it the King of the Mountains swore allegiance to him in the beginning of the realm of Gondor. But when Sauron returned and grewin might again, Isildur summoned the Men of the Mountains to fulfil theiroath, and they would not: for they had worshipped Sauron in the Dark Years. �Then Isildur said to their king: �Thou shalt be the last king. And ifthe West prove mightier than thy Black Master, this curse I lay upon theeand thy folk: to rest never until your oath is fulfilled. For this war willlast through years uncounted, and you shall be summoned once again ere theend.� And they fled before the wrath of Isildur, and did not dare to goforth to war on Sauron�s part; and they hid themselves in secret places inthe mountains and had no dealings with other men, but slowly dwindled in thebarren hills. And the terror of the Sleepless Dead lies about the Hill ofErech and all places where that people lingered. But that way I must go,since there are none living to help me.�

They were cursed by a demigod in front of a meteor rock. Bad mojo

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:35

Kassad: Nov 12, 2005; It's about time.

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

The "by its own weapons was it worsted" makes me suspect the Ring was involved, but the breaking of an Oath may also be enough. Porque no los dos, etc.

I read that as referring to "wraiths of fear and darkness". Aragorn had his own Nazgul for a time.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:39

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

euphronius posted:

Here it is

They were cursed by a demigod in front of a meteor rock. Bad mojo

After breaking an Oath, too. That's, like, triple whammy.

So yeah though just in terms of timelines Isildur wouldn't have had the Ring yet.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:40

euphronius: Feb 18, 2009

I bought the official kindle for better formatting

So now Ill have nice textual quotes with all my bad opinions. You are welcome.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:42

Pham Nuwen: Oct 30, 2010

Kassad posted:

I read that as referring to "wraiths of fear and darkness". Aragorn had his own Nazgul for a time.

Yes, almost certainly. I see no reason to bring the Ring into this particular situation given that:

Oaths have serious power in Middle Earth
The oath was sworn to a Numenorean king on/at a Numenorean artifact
The oath was broken (which has consequences in ME) and they were cursed by Isildur (which also has consequences in ME)
Aragorn, being the heir of Isildur, would presumably have the authority to deem their oath fulfilled; seeing Anduril, the Host would presumably jump at the chance to finally quit moping around that loving stone

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:44

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Trin Tragula posted:

On the subject of the Stone of Erech itself:

Someone who knows more about Numenor than me can speculate on whether or not it is magical. I'm just having fun imagining Isildur trying to carry this enormous marble around with him without it constantly trying to escape and roll down the nearest hill.

I like the idea that the Stone was

1) important enough that Isildur specifically put it in a boat and carried it the whole way over here with him

2) left it sitting on the side of a hill because there was nothing better to do with it

# ? Aug 6, 2018 15:47

sunday at work: Apr 6, 2011; "Man is the animal that thinks something is wrong."

HoME mentions that the stone was left there to mark the meeting place where the oath was sworn.

I think I read somewhere that the oath invoked Eru, which is why it was so powerful, but I can't find any reference to that.

# ? Aug 6, 2018 16:27

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# ? Jun 7, 2024 12:47

Hieronymous Alloy: Jan 30, 2009; Why! Why!! Why must you refuse to accept that Dr. Hieronymous Alloy's Genetically Enhanced Cream Corn Is Superior to the Leading Brand on the Market!?!; Morbid Hound

Found a neat discussion of the stone on theonering.net:

quote:

One of the reasons that this issue comes across as a bit confusing is that Tolkien himself changed his ideas about the Stone as he went through the process of writing LOTR. At one stage the Stone of Erech was actually a palantir, brought from Numenor and kept in the tower at Erech which Eluchil mentioned, and found by Aragorn when he came to Erech. The palantir morphed into a rock, with the tower and a ring-wall at one stage, before becoming the landscape feature that it finally ended up as. The position of the Stone also moved around through different drafts of the book. This was mainly so that Aragorn's journey would take the right number of days from the Paths of the Dead to the Stone. The movement of position has nothing to do with changes to the coastline due to the cataclysm of the Downfall of Numenor, as Lord Morningstar suggested. Even the reason for the Stone's existence altered as the writing went on. When it was close to the Anduin delta it was: <OL>a stone set up between the mouths of Lamedui and the Ethir Anduin delta to commemorate the landing of Isildur and Anarion...</OL> When it was close to its final position it was: <OL>set up to mark the meeting place of Isildur and Anarion with the last king of the dark men of the Mountains...</OL> In LOTR, Tokien settled on the idea of the Stone commemorating Isildur's landing, even though that's not very logical given how far it was from the Sea. Perhaps he just liked the idea of a large rock moved over improbable distances, by an ancient and mysterious power (a la Pyramids/Stonehenge/Easter Island.

http://forums.theonering.com/viewtopic.php?t=78611

# ? Aug 6, 2018 16:40

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > Tolkien's Middle-Earth: He was just Beorn this way

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