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Dik Hz posted:gently caress no. I'm not sure I understand how your response is related to the quoted post.
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Aug 7, 2018 03:42
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We went and saw a log cabin in the woods today. Absolutely beautiful property, best school district around, but the interior of the cabin needed some freshening up from cigarette smell, and a few of the out buildings needed some major work. The roofs also needed replacing very soon. The thing I didn't think would bother me actually bothers me the most: it's about a mile from a major highway, and the noise from that is loud and constant. Anyway, despite these issues we were still pretty interested in it. At the showing, the realtor said there was an offer coming in that afternoon but since we were interested, we could be in touch about our thoughts and a possible offer from us tomorrow afternoon. Tonight, around 8pm, he called and said he needs to know by 9am because "all offers are being presented at noon." I thought there was just the one other offer, so what's a few more hours to give us some thinking time? I don't understand the big rush all of a sudden, especially since the seller is an elderly man living in assisted living at the moment. He said waiting would be a disservice to the seller, but how would he know unless he knows what our offer would be? Maybe the first offer was asking price? Maybe he's judging us by appearance and thinks we would low-ball? I don't understand the big rush all of a sudden, but it makes me uncomfortable. I know houses are flying off the market, often in a few days' time, but taking a huge leap with basically only a few hours to think about it is scary. Is it always like this? I'm going to call him in the morning and let him know that if the offer falls through, that we would still be interested, but that we're just not ready to make an offer yet. Is that lovely of me?
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Aug 7, 2018 04:37
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That realtor is definitely lying to you. There is no second offer.
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Aug 7, 2018 04:45
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Leperflesh posted:The goon who was concerned was already in the escrow process, so no, the suggestion would not apply to him specifically. But the suggestion if acted upon by anyone else reading this thread with similar concerns would absolutely have an affect on them, and nobody was presenting this argument as "in theory it'd be good if everyone did this but in practice don't try to do this" which is exactly how it ought to be couched. But that was how an enforceable clause was being couched. Here's where enforceability was first brought up: baquerd posted:Having a standard clause without teeth doing nothing to actually protect a client because it makes closing easier? Color me shocked that a real estate agent would handwave that away by saying most people don't have a problem with it. QuarkJets posted:That's a double standard, on one hand no one pays attention to this innocuous clause but on the other if you make it enforceable then it'll probably sink your offer? No, the real reason to not give that clause teeth is to maximize the likelihood of closing as soon as possible. If realtors weren't on average scum then everyone would either have an enforceable version of the clause or not have the clause at all No one was suggesting that individuals begin taking action or go against the flow; posters were saying that the reason that this is not standard is that the real estate industry doesn't actually act in the best interests of buyers/sellers unless those interests are already aligned with the best interests of agents. Then Dukket got a stick up his butt and urgently wanted to say that purchase agreement standards don't ever change which is so laughably wrong that it can't help but be addressed, and that's where we were as of last page. I don't feel like addressing the rest of your post is going to do anything because all of the points you've raised (a) have already been addressed, (b) aren't really relevant to the point that I and baquerd were making: that the real estate industry sucks and is full of lovely people, and (c) baquerd and I never went into "individuals should start to make new demands" territory, which seems to be the only hypothetical point that you take issue with so there's really no debate to be had. Note how at the end of my last post I even acknowledged that the reason buyers don't already demand change is because the unenforceable version of the clause doesn't come into play often enough as-is, which is basically the same as saying "no one is doing anything about this and that's fine because it's not enough of a problem" QuarkJets fucked around with this message at 05:09 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 05:04
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HEY NONG MAN posted:That realtor is definitely lying to you. There is no second offer. yeah it's a cliche
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Aug 7, 2018 06:40
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Koivunen posted:
Not lovely at all, you aren't obligated to put in an offer and you should never feel bad if you change your mind or just aren't ready yet. It might even work in your favor. The tough part about quick markets is that you often have to make your decision quickly. There are bunch of possible reasons he moved up the time table some of them are legit, some less so. You have to remember that "there is another offer coming in" means he doesn't have it in hand, someone just said they were going to submit an offer, and not infrequently the other offer never materializes. You're over thinking it.
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Aug 7, 2018 12:53
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Koivunen posted:I don't understand the big rush all of a sudden, but it makes me uncomfortable. I know houses are flying off the market, often in a few days' time, but taking a huge leap with basically only a few hours to think about it is scary. Is it always like this? I'm going to call him in the morning and let him know that if the offer falls through, that we would still be interested, but that we're just not ready to make an offer yet. Is that lovely of me? There may or may not be other offers, but this is definitely Realtor 101 level stuff. It's hard to say what the likely outcome is without knowing your area. Around me, at least a few months ago when I was looking/selling, decent properties that were priced right and in the sweet spot (200s-400s) were flying off the shelves. Most were easily able to command full asking price, with a couple that I saw going for over asking - usually in no more than 2 weeks of being on the market. Granted, that's not Southern/Bay California insanity, but the market definitely didn't wait around for indecisive buyers or those that tried to low-ball. The important thing is, if you're uncomfortable, don't allow the pressure to force you to make a rushed decision. In fact, what you're feeling is exactly what the seller's realtor wants: your emotion to override your brain. It's okay to like a house, but don't start getting real attached until the keys are handed over at closing. You want to remain as impartial and unemotional as possible through the whole transaction, so that you can look at problems/issues/costs/price with a rational, business-like mind. Submitting offers only to be outbid gets annoying after a couple (ask me how I know), but it will work out eventually.
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Aug 7, 2018 13:54
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It's useful to remember that unless you're homeless you don't need a house. You want it. (If you are homeless, you probably should find a less expensive and less inflexible housing solution.) Spending a year or two to get a good deal on a house that you'll be taking a 30 year mortgage out on can significantly impact how you live for the next 30 years. Don't rush it and don't clamor to participate in a seller's market.
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Aug 7, 2018 15:34
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True story. The first time I looked for a house I spent 15 months looking and didn’t actually buy until three years later after a tried again for 8 months. I looked at a shitload of houses and thinking back on the ones I put offers on or really wanted... I just can’t imagine living anywhere else than the place I do now. It’s worth it to be careful and full of scrutiny.
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Aug 7, 2018 17:04
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Thanks for the insight. I want to be careful with our choices and not make decisions based on emotion. I called the guy and told him we weren’t ready to make an offer, but to let us know if it falls through. I do have another question since we will probably encounter it again with other homes. The cabin has a septic tank that was installed in 1995. It hasn’t been inspected for compliance since. The realtor said the house was being sold as-is, so there would be no inspection. However, county law requires inspection on point of sale. The realtor told us the county didn’t require it, but we looked it up and it’s very clear that it is a requirement. Does being sold as-is mean the seller can wiggle out if getting an inspection?
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Aug 7, 2018 18:42
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Personally I would walk away from any house where they weren't allowing an inspection, county required or not. Edit: Also worth throwing out there that the being sold "as is" would only make me insist more on an inspection. wilderthanmild fucked around with this message at 19:01 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 18:53
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Koivunen posted:Thanks for the insight. I want to be careful with our choices and not make decisions based on emotion. I called the guy and told him we weren’t ready to make an offer, but to let us know if it falls through. Local laws and customs vary, but in my market "as-is" means you can have an inspection, but the seller doesn't intend to fix anything. Assuming you are correct, the realtor is either a lying rear end in a top hat or is wrong and doesn't know it, he may not typically work in this county for example, which is a poor excuse. If the county requires it I doubt the seller can wiggle out of it, but laws can be weird with grandfather clauses and what not. Don't take this Realtors word for it. My limited experience with septic is that its worth having inspected And yeah someone trying to push for no inspection in a market that typically has them sounds shifty. Dukket fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 18:57
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In my market, 'as-is' means that the seller isn't going to fix anything and doesn't make any representations about the state of the property - you often see it in the case where the resident/owner has passed and the house is being sold by the kids/inheritors. They haven't lived there, or not for 20 years, and don't have any idea if the upstairs toilet backs up or if the basement floods or anything. They still let you do an inspection if you want, it just means that they're not interested in making any repairs and can't tell you anything about the property other than what you see. I would definitely walk from anywhere that flat out said they weren't allowing inspections. Sometimes people here waive their inspection contingency because it makes an offer more certain and possibly appealing to a seller, but they're still allowed to have one - they just don't get an out on their contract if it comes back full of problems. For someone to have a flat no inspection, I would assume they know there is something horribly wrong that would tank any sale and want to avoid it coming to light.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:03
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The only people who should waive inspection contingency are cash-offer investors who are buying lots of properties, who can spread the surprise costs they discover post-purchase across lots of properties to mitigate the really horrible disasters that they'll get like one time out of six. Regardless of what the realtor says, you can always submit an offer with contingencies, but if they say they won't accept offers with contingencies you're probably wasting your time. I believe there is one situation where you literally cannot participate without waiving contingency, and that's auctions, where you're obligated to purchase on the spot if you bid. QuarkJets posted:so there's really no debate to be had I think we likely were arguing past each other, probably mostly agree, I apologize for any misunderstanding that was my fault, and am similarly happy to drop it now.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:18
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Leperflesh posted:I think we likely were arguing past each other, probably mostly agree, I apologize for any misunderstanding that was my fault, and am similarly happy to drop it now. OMG thank you. You get the better poster award.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:21
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Koivunen posted:Thanks for the insight. I want to be careful with our choices and not make decisions based on emotion. I called the guy and told him we weren’t ready to make an offer, but to let us know if it falls through. A 20+ year old unmaintaned septic system is going to need a minimum of $30k worth of repairs. If the county requires an inspection to issue a C of A on property transfer, that means it will need this immediately. They know it, which is why they are trying to sell to a complete loving sucker as-is. Walk.
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Aug 7, 2018 19:40
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Motronic posted:Walk. Really any advice past this is frivolous. That RE agent is scum. Also walk from any other properties they are listing.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:00
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Aren't you supposed to have to your real estate agent helping you with all this?
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Aug 7, 2018 20:10
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Bring back up inspection/appraisal chat, because I'm literally right now e-signing some pre-closing disclosures (I close on the 20th - do never buy):quote:Any appraisal report prepared in connection with your loan application was prepared by an independentprofessional appraiser for the lender's use in substantiating property value in support of your application.Appraisers must meet certain qualification requirements before their reports will be accepted by the lender;however, a lender's acceptance of an appraiser's reports is not an endorsement of either the appraiser or theappraisal report. This is from the lender. It's weasel word disclosures all the way down.
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Aug 7, 2018 20:58
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Koivunen posted:I don't understand the big rush all of a sudden, but it makes me uncomfortable. I know houses are flying off the market, often in a few days' time, but taking a huge leap with basically only a few hours to think about it is scary. Is it always like this? I'm going to call him in the morning and let him know that if the offer falls through, that we would still be interested, but that we're just not ready to make an offer yet. Is that lovely of me? If you’re in a hot market where “houses are flying off the market, often in a few days time” but you are uncomfortable making decisions quickly, perhaps you’re not ready to buy a house yet? Also, it’s never lovely to say no to buying a house that you just saw once. If you’ve read the thread this far and haven’t come to that conclusion yet, I’m not sure what to tell you.
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Aug 8, 2018 01:15
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Motronic posted:A 20+ year old unmaintaned septic system is going to need a minimum of $30k worth of repairs. That's probably a bit dramatic. In many areas of the country, assuming you have enough land, a full new system wouldn't be that much. If the owner was an rear end and flushed cigarette buts, dumped grease, and abused the system, yeah, the leach field could be shot. Or, it could be largely okay if it was babied and designed right from the get-go. The only way you'll know is to get a septic inspection by an actual septic company, not a general home inspector. If the county requires it, there's a good chance they won't let the sale happen or be occupied if it fails an inspection. They tend to take sewer systems pretty seriously. You may want to check if the area requires mandatory pumping every X years (many do.) If they do, at least you know the owner did that at a bare minimum. Ideally, this should be done every 2-3 years depending on load.
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Aug 8, 2018 01:26
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Horse-buying thread - the strategy isn't to act as if you're an idiot
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Aug 8, 2018 01:33
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Follow up: walkthrough went great and the sellers got everything out as we'd hoped.
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Aug 8, 2018 01:51
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B-Nasty posted:That's probably a bit dramatic. In many areas of the country, assuming you have enough land, a full new system wouldn't be that much. Dramatic? A septic box d-box + piping + labor + permitting is drat near $30k. Add for leech field work and great - IF you have enough land and IF that land available, not near a well and friable. If not you're going for a sand mound and just add another $15-20k for materials labor and permitting. Where are you and what kinds of prices have you personally paid in the last - let's say 15 years for these services? My prices are eastern PA.
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Aug 8, 2018 03:46
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The house I just went under contract for had to have the old steel septic tank removed and replaced with a modern plastic one. The old one was partially covered under the asphalt driveway that had been extended 360 degrees around the house since it was built so that had to be torn up then repaired, then all the piping moved to the new non-driveway covered location. Special permits were also required because the well is only 80 feet away from the tank not the standard 100. Despite the extra work the whole thing cost about $11.5k and this was in south central AK which isn't really known for being a low cost of living area at least in comparison to the continental US. If most of the costs you've seen are sunk into permits I'm going to go ahead and just say the actual cost is not that crazy but local laws and regulations can cause the price to vary drastically.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:22
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Motronic posted:Dramatic? A septic box d-box + piping + labor + permitting is drat near $30k. Add for leech field work and great - IF you have enough land and IF that land available, not near a well and friable. If not you're going for a sand mound and just add another $15-20k for materials labor and permitting. $7600 for a 1500 gallon tank and 2 60 foot leach lines, southern California, 4/2016, including permit and state certification. Another $850 to decommission/fill the old one. I'll give another generous $1500 for work the GC did connecting the house's new plumbing to the new system as part of the larger renovation. This company had the highest bid by about 10% but also the best reputation, so that's who I went with. This was an 'easy' installation and I've seen that company estimate $12k for the same size system on a tougher piece of property, but still I haven't seen prices sniffing $30k. I'm also pretty sure that you wouldn't be estimating that price without experience. Maybe my unincorporated mountain town isn't as strict about what they want from a hole where the poo goes? What we can all agree on is that a property being sold as-is that doesn't want you to inspect the septic tank and is moving the timetable on buyers is hiding something, and you should walk away.
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Aug 8, 2018 06:29
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If the won’t let you inspect the septic system the deal stinks!
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Aug 8, 2018 13:29
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If it costs 30k dollars, it don’t make scents!
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Aug 8, 2018 13:33
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I appreciate all the info, there's a good chance that we will end up buying a place with a septic system so this is all very useful! I've lived in a city setting my entire life, and I'm extremely ready to live somewhere quiet where I can't see neighbors. We are over the as-is cabin, there's too much potential for disaster, and there is too much uncertainty. Our realtor is coming to look at our house in a couple days, and next week we are going to look at a few lakefront properties. The one we are most interested in was a year-round house, and fortunately, it has a brand new septic system and a two year old well. The other two are year-round cabins, and all are on about three acres of land. The only hesitation I have about that area is the 30 minute commute into the city, which really isn't that bad, but winter takes up 2/3 of the year here so commute time largely depends on the weather.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:12
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Please tell me this is a different realtor.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:19
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Is that 30 minutes with or without traffic? If it's with, is it the best case or the worst case? I'd be cautious about that unless you're really sure about it. My old commute was in theory just a hair under 40 minutes into the city. In practice I never got there faster than about 45 and my trip home was usually around an hour. Quick Edit: Also worth considering that areas with bad winters often have equally bad if not worse summers for driving due to having to jam all the construction in during the warm months.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:24
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Motronic posted:Please tell me this is a different realtor. Yes! Our realtor is awesome. We just didn't have a chance to meet face to face until the end of this week, so we saw the as-is cabin on our own. wilderthanmild posted:Is that 30 minutes with or without traffic? If it's with, is it the best case or the worst case? I'd be cautious about that unless you're really sure about it. My old commute was in theory just a hair under 40 minutes into the city. In practice I never got there faster than about 45 and my trip home was usually around an hour. It's 30 without traffic, but there is very little traffic in that direction. It's a 20 mile drive, and maybe 5 of those miles are on city roads (from my workplace), the rest is highway. I have a friend who lives just off that main road, and once you hit the highway it's smooth sailing. Construction definitely sucks but we are used to it.
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Aug 8, 2018 19:35
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I think I already know the answer to this question, but on flips, is it ever a good idea to buy one when you get this in the disclosure: Just seems like an amateurish job with lack of attention to detail. Edit: Also, the flip was on a $1.1 million that was listed at $1.4, no one bit, and now its back to $1.088
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Aug 11, 2018 00:23
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Shadowhand00 posted:I think I already know the answer to this question, but on flips, is it ever a good idea to buy one when you get this in the disclosure: That stinks of  . I would back off or get a substantial discount given what you know is lurking beneath. (Think $900k if the house is actually worth $1.1mm. Surely someone has told them to unfuck the comically overt parts of the bodge job by now.)
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Aug 11, 2018 00:30
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Shadowhand00 posted:I think I already know the answer to this question, but on flips, is it ever a good idea to buy one when you get this in the disclosure: Remember that’s only what can be seen easily and that should guide you
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Aug 11, 2018 00:37
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Heh, thanks. Here's the property on Redfin: https://www.redfin.com/CA/San-Mateo/2842-Hosmer-St-94403/home/1941526 Its a really weird flip. Floor creaks, there is a splash guard (vs. a shower curtain), solar panels. Its just not well done. Shadowhand00 fucked around with this message at 01:53 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 00:41
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Shadowhand00 posted:Heh, thanks. Lol 72 days on redfin in San Mateo? That thing is a tear down now. I bet the sellers are desperate to get out of that mortgage. Send them a 900k offer. Take out the extra 100-200k and gut it. Edit: pool and tennis courts w/ $30 hoa? Bullshit. H110Hawk fucked around with this message at 01:31 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 01:28
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Koivunen posted:Is that lovely of me? gently caress no.
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Aug 11, 2018 02:05
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Dwight Eisenhower posted:It's useful to remember that unless you're homeless you don't need a house. You want it. (If you are homeless, you probably should find a less expensive and less inflexible housing solution.) I don't completely disagree with you but spending the last two years finding a "good deal" on a house in a lot of markets meant you paid 10%+ more than if you'd bought a mediocre deal on the first house you looked at. I wouldn't say that the same is automatically going to be true for the next two years though... Depends on whether you currently own though of course. If your current house is going to go up as much or nearly as what you're buying then you can afford to be patient.
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Aug 11, 2018 02:17
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Shadowhand00 posted:I think I already know the answer to this question, but on flips, is it ever a good idea to buy one when you get this in the disclosure: I walked away several houses like this and so should you (unless you get a heavy discount). You can see hosed up electrical and plumbing which means there is going to be considerably more problems hidden. Leaking pipe fittings, wire splices outside of junction boxes, your imagination is the only limit. I mean for Christ's sake it is incredibly easy to hook up a sinks hot and cold water lines. Someone that hosed that up will have problems tying their shoe laces.
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Aug 11, 2018 03:22
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