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What does Paladin/Sorc offer beyond sharing a casting stat?
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Aug 7, 2018 22:31
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You can get back spells slots for smiting with sorcerer points, get ranged damage which paladin sorely lacks, and has more spell slots than a warlock
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Aug 7, 2018 22:39
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You can also go Paladin 6/Sorc X if you want more of the martial stuff and the saving throw bubble ability. Less smiting but still ends up better than base Paladin.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:47
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My brain automatically assumed that sorcerer spell points could only restore sorcerer spell slots. I get the feeling that's what WotC intended, and then the 5e editing process happened.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:55
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inthesto posted:What does Paladin/Sorc offer beyond sharing a casting stat? arguably the strongest multiclass in 5e
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Aug 7, 2018 22:57
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There is no distinction between slots of a given class - all multiclass casters use the "multiclass slots" table. An expended slot is just expended, it doesn't have an associated class.
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Aug 7, 2018 22:58
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Divine Smite specifically reads "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." Hence, why I was thrown off
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Aug 7, 2018 23:05
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Yeah that's pretty damning towards the "18 sorc/2 paladin" level 9 smite build but ehhh.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:10
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inthesto posted:Divine Smite specifically reads "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." Hence, why I was thrown off So I can only imagine what the sort of person who adores magic table combo shenanigans honestly thinks they can get away with regardless of wording.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:13
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inthesto posted:Divine Smite specifically reads "Starting at 2nd level, when you hit a creature with a melee weapon attack, you can expend one paladin spell slot to deal radiant damage to the target, in addition to the weapon’s damage." Hence, why I was thrown off IIRC the PHB errata specifically covers this example, saying you can use any spell slot. (mostly for the reasons mentioned here) : Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:There is no distinction between slots of a given class - all multiclass casters use the "multiclass slots" table. An expended slot is just expended, it doesn't have an associated class.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:19
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Sorcadin is an explosively powerful multiclass, and Pal 2/Sorc X is arguably the strongest split in the long run, assuming you don't have to muddle through levels 1-6. You get neat tricks like Hold Person into Quickened Green Flame Blade smite, and if they fail their Wis save you get to smash them with an auto-crit smite, and with a Sorceror's spell pool you can throw big smites all day. If you're playing with pointbuy, my favorite way to start is with 15 in str/con/cha and 8 in dex/int/wis; as a variant Human you can bump up one of them (say, CON) with a half-feat like Resilient (CON) and bump the other two with your normal ability bumps, so you start with 16s in everything important and 8s in everything else. With Warcaster, you can also stop worrying about the complications of casting in melee. I guess we'll have to add the multiclass spell table to 5e's big bucket of good ideas that didn't quite pan out.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:22
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Other things in 5e's bucket of "good ideas" that didn't pan out: the entire game. it's trash. trash the entire game.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:25
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lightrook posted:I guess we'll have to add the multiclass spell table to 5e's big bucket of good ideas that didn't quite pan out. In think ultimately the problem is that all of the CHA classes have their own unique mechanics, that all somehow manage to play nice with each other, creating huge opportunities for synergy.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:26
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lightrook posted:if they fail their Wis save you get to smash them with an auto-crit smite How does this part work? I followed the rest!
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Aug 7, 2018 23:26
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Half-Elf would let you bump one of those 8s up to 10.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:26
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It's pretty good I think
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Aug 7, 2018 23:27
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Arivia posted:Other things in 5e's bucket of "good ideas" that didn't pan out: the entire game. it's trash. trash the entire game. You’re just saying that because you want us all to play Strike! instead.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:28
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Subjunctive posted:How does this part work? I followed the rest! Elysiume fucked around with this message at 23:35 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 23:30
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Just to follow up on my Curse of Strahd game, I do a few things to increase the tension. I agree with all those who said horror is super difficult to do in a tabletop RPG. Creepiness is far easier. Music is helpful, because that can really establish the flavor of a certain scene. With any RPG game, I think music is essential for the mood, and it's difficult to play when a TV is on, or even when there's no music. Ever try watching a horror movie with no music? A lot of the tension disappears. These are my Spotify playlists. Another thing is, as others have said, battles aren't a good way to convey horror. That's the little details. I try to highlight the waterfall of maggots that just burst out of the bloated stomach of a corpse found in the woods when the players inspect it. The low moaning of the wind through the trees, dark shadows of branches creeping along the dirt path that seem to follow the players footsteps. Noticing the children's bones, with bites marks ground into them, on the floor of a filthy hovel as they can hear a low cackling laughter from the floor above. For CoS, I'm also giving characters either prophetic or terrible dreams relating to different aspects of the land or Strahd. Even with that, I don't really know if I can ever get my players to experience horror, except maybe if their beloved character might die. Particular to Curse of Strahd, Oath of the Ancients Paladin, Wild Mage Sorcerer, and Hunter Ranger. I started them at level 3, and still did the Death House, and they leveled to 4 afterwards. They managed to kill the shambling mound in the basement with some really lovely rolls on my part, and a couple of early crits from the paladin with his smite attack. I did have a plan if it was a TPK though, which I can elaborate on if anyone cares. They've explored the village of Barovia, didn't bother with Doru, and then did a little scouting. The paladin ran into the night hag as she was trying to collect a child, foiled the evil plan, and let her wander away after being scolded by her. I actually had her pissed off he ruined a business opportunity and tried to force him to buy a dream pasty. The ranger was doing a thorough ring around the town, trying to determine if she could figure out what was wrong with the land. While the paladin and sorcerer were chilling at the tavern, talking to Ismarck, the ranger ran into the night hag (leaving town back to the windmill), bought a dream pastry, then noticed (with a really good perception check) the sack in the night hag's cart moving about - too big for an animal. She used talk with animals to convince a squirrel to find the paladin and give him a written message, then left town tracking the hag. Long story short, the trio reunited and tracked the hag all the way to the crossroads, noticed it was getting dark and decided they did not want to be out after dark. They went back to town and helped Ismarck and Ireena prepare for a possible attack. I wasn't going to disappoint. A group of four strahd zombies, 3 wolves, 1 vampire spawn, and Strahd attacked the house. Strahd was hidden through the majority of the battle, in the darkness behind his minions. The zombies bashed their way through the front door and a big melee ensued. After about six rounds of desperate fighting (although they were really good with their rolls, and I continued to be poo poo), Strahd made his appearance. He charmed the paladin and ordered him to invite him and his spawn in, then walk to him. Although Ismarck and the ranger were trying to hold him back, he pulled free. Strahd said some menacing poo poo, then bit the paladin. Then I had him bust out his legendary actions to move up to Ismarck and Ireena, smack Ismarck across the face and send him flying, tell Ireena he would be coming for her again, then melted away into the night leaving his remaining spawn to fight it out. That's where we ended the last session. I'm really excited for the next one!
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Aug 7, 2018 23:31
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inthesto posted:What does Paladin/Sorc offer beyond sharing a casting stat? Faster caster progression, so more spell slots to smite with. You can also convert SP into even more slots, if you're into that. Paladin 2/Sorcerer X has a distinct playstyle where your normal attack action is using the SCAG cantrip Green-Flame Blade, or if you want to strike two different targets you can spend a SP to Twin Booming Blade, and if you want to double up on the same target then you Quicken Green-Flame Blade for a lot of explosive potential combined with the smite slots. The Quickened Hold into cantrip+smite has already been mentioned. Additionally you get sorcerer spellcasting delayed two levels, so a decent ranged attack option (Firebolt, + Draconic Affinity which is recommended) and defensive/offensive buffs in Shield, Blur, Haste, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, as well as some general spellcasting utility. Elysiume posted:Hold Person paralyzes them if they fail their save. Sorcerer metamagics let you quicken Green-Flame Blade, which is a way to get off a melee attack as a bonus action after using your regular action on Hold Person. Attacks against a paralyzed target automatically crit, and you can use Divine Smite because Green-Flame Blade counts as a melee attack, so you get to dump a high-level spell slot and automatically double it. You need to Quicken Hold Person and normal cast the GFB. Bonus Action Cantrip + Action Cantrip = Yes Bonus Action Spell + Action Cantrip = Yes Bonus Action Spell + Action Spell = No Bonus Action Cantrip + Action Spell = No Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 23:33 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 23:31
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Subjunctive posted:You’re just saying that because you want us all to play Strike! instead. Oh man, Strike is great! I particularly loved the part where it tells you how to play Bender from Futurama. 
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Aug 7, 2018 23:32
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Conspiratiorist posted:You need to Quicken Hold Person and normal cast the GFB.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:35
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Subjunctive posted:How does this part work? I followed the rest! Attacks against paralyzed enemies, like those successfully hit by Hold Person, are made at advantage and will always crit, which doubles up not just your weapon dice but also your smite dice. Edit: I lied, quicken the Hold Person and normally cast your preferred melee cantrip; 5e editing strikes again. Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Half-Elf would let you bump one of those 8s up to 10. Half-elf also gets you a 16/16/16 spread, you're right, so it's a choice of whether you'd rather negate a penalty in a secondary stat or have a half-feat; Resilient and Heavy Armor Mastery come to mind as pretty solid ones. I think years of 3.5 have given me a bias against butterknife-eared half-elves and in favor of the Free Feat Human Master Race, though. lightrook fucked around with this message at 23:38 on Aug 7, 2018 |
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Aug 7, 2018 23:36
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Elysiume posted:and you can use Divine Smite because Green-Flame Blade counts as a melee attack, so you get to dump a high-level spell slot and automatically double it. Fifth Edition: Where every power is a spell, because of course you need magic for a weapon attack to also Do A Thing™
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Aug 7, 2018 23:39
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My pick is VHuman Resilient Consitution at 1 going into either Great Weapon Master or War Caster at 6, depending on the 2h vs sword & board choice (you need War Caster to cast Shield while wielding a shield).
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Aug 7, 2018 23:40
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lightrook posted:Half-elf also gets you a 16/16/16 spread, you're right, so it's a choice of whether you'd rather negate a penalty in a secondary stat or have a half-feat; Resilient and Heavy Armor Mastery come to mind as pretty solid ones. I think years of 3.5 have given me a bias against butterknife-eared half-elves and in favor of the Free Feat Human Master Race, though. Have fun using your free Sharpshooter feat at 1st level, in the dark, necromancer's cave, o blind human.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:42
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P.d0t posted:Have fun using your free Sharpshooter feat at 1st level, in the dark, necromancer's cave, o blind human. You take Crossbow Expert at level 1 and Sharpshooter at 4 
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Aug 7, 2018 23:44
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Oh right, Hold Person is Paralyzed and not just Restrained. Thanks, all.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:47
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P.d0t posted:Fifth Edition: Where every power is a spell, because of course you need magic for a weapon attack to also Do A Thing™
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Aug 7, 2018 23:47
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Subjunctive posted:You’re just saying that because you want us all to play Strike! instead. Oh god no. Strike is worse. At least the 5e team bothers to tell a story.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:51
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Subjunctive posted:Oh right, Hold Person is Paralyzed and not just Restrained. Thanks, all. I just nullified a fight against a troll by casting hold person on them, allowing our paladin and barbarian to both just murder it in one turn.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:51
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OK, so my crotchety old bastard of a friend really wants to run his 'Dream D&D Campaign". I've seen his notes, some of them are over 30 years old. This will end badly, but it is sure to be a wild ride. His main rule is no magic. Sword and Sorcery, Conan style. Only humans. One guy got a special dispensation to play a halfling reskinned as a motherfucking midget. We're allowed one cleric, and she is supposed to only memorize healing supporty type stuff. His one exception is that if we can come up with a character concept that uses low-key magic stuff reskinned as mundane, he will allow it. So I am thinking beastmaster ranger. Problem is that ranger is a mess? Apparently the one in the PHB sucks, and has been rewritten a few times or something. It confuses me. Can someone give me a little advice on making a ranger given the guidelines above?
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Aug 7, 2018 23:54
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ChaseSP posted:I just nullified a fight against a troll by casting hold person on them, allowing our paladin and barbarian to both just murder it in one turn.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:54
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Well the GM let it pass so whatever.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:57
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Arivia posted:Oh god no. Strike is worse. At least the 5e team bothers to tell a story. I don’t really think I absorbed the story in the PHB/DMG/MM, whatever it was meant to be.
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Aug 7, 2018 23:59
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The Dregs posted:OK, so my crotchety old bastard of a friend really wants to run his 'Dream D&D Campaign". I've seen his notes, some of them are over 30 years old. This will end badly, but it is sure to be a wild ride. His main rule is no magic. Sword and Sorcery, Conan style. Only humans. One guy got a special dispensation to play a halfling reskinned as a motherfucking midget. We're allowed one cleric, and she is supposed to only memorize healing supporty type stuff. His one exception is that if we can come up with a character concept that uses low-key magic stuff reskinned as mundane, he will allow it. So I am thinking beastmaster ranger. Here is how you fix everything for everyone http://www.hyperborea.tv/store/p14/Astonishing_Swordsmen_%26_Sorcerers_of_Hyperborea_%28Second_Edition%29.html
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Aug 8, 2018 00:00
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The Dregs posted:
There's a Revised Ranger out there, which is semi-official and generally less garbage than the vanilla PHB ranger. Alternatively, if your goal is just shooting dudes, Battlemaster Fighter is pretty good at it, too. With Crossbow Expert, you can shoot twice a turn with a Hand Crossbow, and you can pick up Sharpshooter later for a little extra firepower, although I guess crossbows might be a little late-medieval for a Conan-esque setting. If that's an issue, then maybe ask nicely if you can reflavor it as some kind of shortbow? You can use Precision attack to offset Sharpshooter penalties, for example, or enable your teammates with Distracting Strike. I get the vague feeling that Battlemaster was probably not intended to work with ranged attacks, but for the most part it does, so shoot away.
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Aug 8, 2018 00:05
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Elysiume posted:To be fair, I was wrong about the ordering; my DM has weird house rules around quickened spells. Casting HP first would let you only quicken a spell if you knew it landed, but that's not legal under the actual rules. I think the combo would also work with a normal weapon attack, you'd just miss out on the extra perks of GFB. I'm having a hard time parsing you, but the way it works RAW is you cast Hold Person using a Bonus Action by spending 2 Sorcery Points on Quicken metamagic, and then you strike with Green-Flame Blade as your Action. Whether the enemy failed its save is irrelevant to the order of operations.
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Aug 8, 2018 00:08
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The Dregs posted:OK, so my crotchety old bastard of a friend really wants to run his 'Dream D&D Campaign". I've seen his notes, some of them are over 30 years old. This will end badly, but it is sure to be a wild ride. His main rule is no magic. Sword and Sorcery, Conan style. Only humans. One guy got a special dispensation to play a halfling reskinned as a motherfucking midget. We're allowed one cleric, and she is supposed to only memorize healing supporty type stuff. His one exception is that if we can come up with a character concept that uses low-key magic stuff reskinned as mundane, he will allow it. So I am thinking beastmaster ranger. With the guidlines above, it's just not working. In order for the beastmaster to work right it takes some magic support from the local Druid. They didn't want to give the Ranger good spells in the PHB for whatever reason so Animal Bond and Awaken aren't on your spell list, and they're the ones that you need to make animal companions really come alive. Here's the offically, unoffical ranger revision, it fixes a lot of the problems with the base class, but they're still really weird and cagey about the animal companion, meanwhile wizards are going full Musical Numbers with the cutlery. Neat note, if you're able to reskin your ranger spells you're sorta one of the best healers in the game thanks to Healing Spirit, a 2nd level spell. It's pretty lame in combat, but out of combat you can basically use it to full heal your party between fights, you could flavor it as some neat animal shaman ritual that involes weird herbs to match your theme. https://media.wizards.com/2016/dnd/downloads/UA_RevisedRanger.pdf
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Aug 8, 2018 00:08
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Arivia posted:Here is how you fix everything for everyone http://www.hyperborea.tv/store/p14/Astonishing_Swordsmen_%26_Sorcerers_of_Hyperborea_%28Second_Edition%29.html gently caress that. It took me six months to get this group going semi-smoothly with 5E. They aren't the brightest group. It looks awesome, though
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Aug 8, 2018 00:10
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