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I think the former
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Aug 9, 2018 20:15
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oriongates posted:The biggest problem is that it's thematically limited...it's fine to abstract your decker jamming cybereyes and confusing drones with bad signals, but if you're just fighting low-tech gangers or a pack of feral ghouls you become useless. You hack a nearby car and run it into the ghouls or you hack a nearby X overloading it's battery causing it to explode
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Aug 9, 2018 20:17
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:Are you talking about doing a grid-combat game that feels sorta like shadowrun, or using 4e's design principles to make something that isn't a grid combat game? Here is my pitch in its most recent form. I am currently working on putting together my layout and figuring out all the things I need to spell out. The bolded areas in the text are areas where questions have been asked or where I want to get some possible feedback on. I do want there to be a better non combat component to the game than was given in 4E, but I will admit the focus right now is there, and then on making all character classes useful, and then on working out how things work outside of that context. I feel it is important for there to be more to do there than in the inspiring rules text, but maybe not making it so complicated as the inspiring setting. Me of myself posted:Untitled Cyberpunk/D&D Mashup Game Also, if by some miracle I keep my energy and interest up long enough to finish this drat thing, then I might look into Kickstarter or whatever to get it published and properly arted up. Til then I am just riding the mania where it will take me. remusclaw fucked around with this message at 20:50 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 20:22
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remusclaw posted:• Space travel? Make space travel a splatbook IMO. Also, if you're sticking with the tank/healer/dps trinity than go with 6 for 2 of each probably. If you are going to make each class have a unique kit that focuses on an aspect of combat beyond that, then I'd stick to 4 but give each one an exp track based on what they want to do. So like, a docwagon guy is going to get exp for healing, but also for stopping harm ti their allies. A hacker gets it for exploits or shutting down enemies, etc.,
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Aug 9, 2018 20:43
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Moriatti posted:Make space travel a splatbook IMO. I wrote this somewhere yesterday but damned if I can find it now, so I added it into the pitch. "Class types will be Tank/DPS/Bufferhealer with all the controller style status effect, forced movement, and area targeting stuff spread out among the classes." I like the core three, and while controller stuff was cool, it didn't need to be it's own thing seperate from the rest of the types. On experience, I am in a weird place. I don't like experience point systems very much and just fudge level ups when I feel they are necessary, but, lots of people do like them and could make that same choice on their own volition if given one. I admit though, if there is one, I don't really want to make it one of those, favorite player gets all the points sort of things, which I feel can happen a lot with rp awards and the like. I think a big part of balance is keeping everyone on the same level, even if it doesn't make sense, realistically.
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Aug 9, 2018 20:56
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oriongates posted:I think the biggest problem is so many of the benefits were just dumb, or difficult to justify as wireless only. I think the shurikens were probably the dumbest that I recall off the top of my head. Connectivity-enabled shurikens? Goddamnit Catalyst, try to be less terrible. oriongates posted:I think you may be answering this from a shadowrun perspective. The discussion is regarding converting shadowrun to something based on 4th edition D&D. One of the design elements of 4e D&D is avoiding anti-X specialists. No classes whose abilities only work on "group X". Fair point. I have too much brain space dedicated to a theoretical Shadowrun 3E heartbreaker. I don't see how you can have a hacker as either a controller or leader though then, so long as there is the possibility of having magical/non-tech allies or enemies. The only tech character you can guarantee is yourself - which is an interesting design notion of someone who can either enhance his friends, hinder his foes, or just self-buff the gently caress out. But extremely difficult to balance, as that sounds like the kind of thing that could crowd out other niches.
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Aug 9, 2018 20:58
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Re: shadowrun-as-tactical-game I've been poking at the idea of converting Fragged Empire for the task.
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Aug 9, 2018 21:03
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kaynorr posted:
I am viewing Hackers currently as a warlord/cleric inspired class and stealing a bit from techies in mass effect and the rigger from shadowrun to make drones their primary combat mechanic, as yeah I have to admit I am having a little trouble finding excuses for letting them hack animals for instance. I am thinking that every character type will have some sort of Matrix connection however, for the sake of both inclusion and maybe a little bit of that omnipresent feel. I also admit I kind of want a face class, and that also suits itself to warlord style abilities so I will definitely have to look for ways to do similar things in different ways. Maybe let each class be mainly one type and partiall another? So a face would be a Healer/DPS while a Hacker would be a Healer/Tank? Maybe? remusclaw fucked around with this message at 21:10 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 21:05
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remusclaw posted:I wrote this somewhere yesterday but damned if I can find it now, so I added it into the pitch. I think experience as a milestone or group reward is best, but you absolutely want to incentivize behaviors with rewards in a game, hence my suggestion for a tick exp system that rewards use of a character's kit. You can tie this into the classes themselves, their builds, or even use them in lieu of a flaws system if you want to reinforce that Shadowrunners are fundamentally broken people. As for the core 3, I'd do 6 classes then, I'd suggest the following: - Street Samurai (Punish tank leans dps secondary) - Hacker (debuff/incentive leader) - Wetworker (Stealth based DPS, Sniper or blade paths) - DocWagon (buff leader) - Bodyguard (Lockdown tank, lots of forced movement and debuffs) - Slinger (debuff dps) This is pretty close to something I've been working on so I'd love to share notes. Edit: the tick based experience could tie into stars on an app and you could roll exp into money since the two are so intrinsically linked in Cyber Punk settings. This also offers an in-universe reason for the ticks, since if you hire a big, cyber'd up troll, you want to see him suplex a dude. Moriatti fucked around with this message at 21:23 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 21:10
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remusclaw posted:I am viewing Hackers currently as a warlord/cleric inspired class and stealing a bit from techies in mass effect and the rigger from shadowrun to make drones their primary combat mechanic, as yeah I have to admit I am having a little trouble finding excuses for letting them hack animals for instance. I am thinking that every character type will have some sort of Matrix connection however, for the sake of both inclusion and maybe a little bit of that omnipresent feel. You'll need to find some way to square that circle sooner rather than later - the source material you're drawing from is pretty explicit that magic and tech Do Not Mix, so that's going to be the default assumption until you offer an alternative metaphysics. Having the hacker be a drone specialist is probably the shortest path - mages drop like anyone else when your quadcopter tazes them. remusclaw posted:I also admit I kind of want a face class, and that also suits itself to warlord style abilities so I will definitely have to look for ways to do similar things in different ways. Maybe let each class be mainly one type and partiall another? So a face would be a Healer/DPS while a Hacker would be a Healer/Tank? Maybe? When thinking about the holy trinity, keep in mind that tanking doesn't really work in D&D 4E like it does in MMOs, and tanking/defendering also becomes really janky when you talk about a battlefield where ranged combat is predominant. How do you influence someone's target choice when they're on the other side of the room shooting at your unarmored buddy? The best I can think of is that hackers can try to gently caress with the target selection protocols for anything computerized, while mages can use psychic influence to make themselves a more tempting target, please ignore the fact that the giant troll is wearing combat armor and in 90% cover, you can totally take him out!
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Aug 9, 2018 21:44
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kaynorr posted:Connectivity-enabled shurikens? Goddamnit Catalyst, try to be less terrible. I think the previous edition had a company bringing Matrix access to the jungle by strapping wireless access points to jaguars.
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Aug 9, 2018 21:51
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remusclaw posted:I wrote this somewhere yesterday but damned if I can find it now, so I added it into the pitch.
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Aug 9, 2018 21:55
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Splicer posted:WFRP3 has a thing where RP points go into a pool and when that hits the number of players they all get one. Could do something similar with XP, where it all goes into a pot and once it hits (players x arbitrary number) everyone dings. That is a cool idea. It's really too bad that game came out when I was more cash strapped as everything I have ever heard about it makes it seem real cool.
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Aug 9, 2018 22:01
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So. If you’re running online and aren’t familiar with the group, how do you decide how much/what to prep?
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Aug 9, 2018 22:20
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I'm sure it depends on the game and how comfortable you are shooting from the hip. Do you have an idea for a hook/first scene? That's about where'd I'd stop. If it's supposed to be a carefully tuned combat math-type game, maybe use a premade encounter, if it's more of an improv session with strangers, don't bother at all.
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Aug 9, 2018 22:28
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hyphz posted:So. If you’re running online and aren’t familiar with the group, how do you decide how much/what to prep? I usually plan out the opening scene in a moderate amount of detail, then just have a few major scenes/plot beats i want to hit, and try to fit them in.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:05
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I don't. A true GM always improves 100% unless it's some insane stuff you want to pull just when the players forget the plot thread to gently caress with their brains.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:10
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I build at least 3 combat encounters and a couple of maps so I can easily jump to a scene that fits my production standards st any point.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:13
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hyphz posted:So. If you’re running online and aren’t familiar with the group, how do you decide how much/what to prep? highly highly depends on the system. With unfamiliar players I'd lean towards more preparation too.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:15
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cheetah7071 posted:highly highly depends on the system. With unfamiliar players I'd lean towards more preparation too. How do you figure? My inference was that the whole thing is less likely to work out since they are strangers, and thus chance are low that there being any payoff to anything complex enough that I couldn't come up with on the spot. Maybe that's pessimistic. I'm quite interested in other perspectives now, didn't expect such different answers. 100% agreed on it being system dependent.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:20
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01011001 posted:Re: shadowrun-as-tactical-game I've been poking at the idea of converting Fragged Empire for the task. I've poked a bit at the same idea. I'm not entirely sold on it - Fragged Empire is very much a tactical cover based shooter at heart, so stuff like crazy adepts and the like would require a decent amount of houserules - but it's closer then most things get. And hey, it's got combat hacking that works!
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Aug 9, 2018 23:27
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I would just play it like I prefer to play it. You are the GM you are going to be and letting them figure out what that is early, and seeing how you mesh together is a good thing. Just ask them if they had any issues or anything after the session and adjust from there. It's a getting to know you session and you gotta let them get to know you if you want to go anywhere.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:37
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:How do you figure? My inferences was that the whole thing is less likely to work out since they are strangers, and thus chance are low that there being any payoff to anything complex enough that I couldn't come up with on the spot. Maybe that's pessimistic. Just my thought is I don't want to be learning my players and fumbling with the system at the same time.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:39
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hyphz posted:if they were exposed to the Matrix but again it got a bit weird asking why my gun's automatic targeting requires it to have an Internet connection (although "because the company that made it were terrible programmers" is probably a legit answer to that one) Because the company thought it was more profitable and/or not worth implementing, same reason 99% of the Internet of poo poo is awful. The same reason your lights and garage door opener connect to the internet and are worthless if the corp's server goes down, even though they'd work perfectly well if they didn't do that bullshit.
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Aug 9, 2018 23:58
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:How do you figure? My inference was that the whole thing is less likely to work out since they are strangers, and thus chance are low that there being any payoff to anything complex enough that I couldn't come up with on the spot. Maybe that's pessimistic. fool_of_sound posted:I usually plan out the opening scene in a moderate amount of detail, then just have a few major scenes/plot beats i want to hit, and try to fit them in.
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Aug 10, 2018 00:14
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First session, unfamiliar group? I'm going with a prepared scenario, probably have pregens available (especially for a heavier system), and even somewhat railroady to start with. If nobody knows each other, channel that creative energy. Get things up and running fast. Use a heavy hand to get the ball rolling, and let the players take it after that.
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Aug 10, 2018 00:43
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kaynorr posted:You'll need to find some way to square that circle sooner rather than later - the source material you're drawing from is pretty explicit that magic and tech Do Not Mix, so that's going to be the default assumption until you offer an alternative metaphysics. Having the hacker be a drone specialist is probably the shortest path - mages drop like anyone else when your quadcopter tazes them. A lot of the plausibility issues with cyberpunk hacking can be solved by saying outright that it really is magic combined with traditional computing. Imagine a world where there's magic and that magic can interact with data in any sense and someone will see the potential in it and want to use it, especially if it's able to hack in ways that nobody can right now.
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Aug 10, 2018 01:24
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I'll go into it more later, but for a class based sci-fi game, wouldn't be a bad idea to borrow some notes from how Mass Effect 3's multiplayer handled it's classes
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Aug 10, 2018 01:47
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If you ever need a reason for 'Why is [X] internet enabled it makes no sense' the answer is, apparently, 'because blockchains.'
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Aug 10, 2018 01:57
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1337JiveTurkey posted:A lot of the plausibility issues with cyberpunk hacking can be solved by saying outright that it really is magic combined with traditional computing. Imagine a world where there's magic and that magic can interact with data in any sense and someone will see the potential in it and want to use it, especially if it's able to hack in ways that nobody can right now. I'm actually currently working on an inverted shadowrun setting. Magical fantasy world that has stuck around long enough for cyberpunk-level tech. I'm not 100% sure how much magic and tech will interact but I know the following will exist alongside the traditional magic-user and the futuristic gun-luggers. *Warlocks who use pocket computers to run speeded up demon-summoning rituals to make up for their lack of innate magic. *Tech-based necromancers: can summon machine-ghosts and use them to reanimate broken technology. *a ritual where you can sacrifice a brand new smartphone by driving a nail through the battery. As the phone burns you it connects you to the phone (or barring that audio device) closest to your target, allowing a few minutes of communication.
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Aug 10, 2018 02:15
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To be honest I wouldn't be surprised if wireless-enabled guns aren't already a thing now. Internet of Things and all that poo poo. Silicon Valley is working hard to make cyberpunk obsolete. Which I feel is a good setting for cyberpunk; a corporate dystopia where everything run by and built for arrogant blowhards who care more about advertising and appearances than usefulness, hapless developers are in a constant, frequently losing war with independent hackers, organised crime and their competition to keep poorly thought out products secure, hence there being niches for thieves and mercenaries taking advantage of the constant security holes to make off with whatever the office may have stashed.
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Aug 10, 2018 02:37
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hackers being warlords because everyone's swords and guns are IOT-enabled is really on brand. I like ithyphz posted:I think the previous edition had a company bringing Matrix access to the jungle by strapping wireless access points to jaguars. There was a company in California that was strapping wifi access points to homeless people
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Aug 10, 2018 03:43
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ProfessorCirno posted:I've poked a bit at the same idea. I'm not entirely sold on it - Fragged Empire is very much a tactical cover based shooter at heart, so stuff like crazy adepts and the like would require a decent amount of houserules - but it's closer then most things get. And hey, it's got combat hacking that works! I'd been considering trying to adapt some of the Momentum stuff from Kingdom/Seas for that reason (and also to free up a bunch of design space regarding 'ware). It'll take significant effort no matter how you slice it though.
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Aug 10, 2018 06:36
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gradenko_2000 posted:hackers being warlords because everyone's swords and guns are IOT-enabled is really on brand. I like it ...wait, isn't that basically Metal Gear Solid 4
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Aug 10, 2018 07:23
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Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:How do you figure? My inference was that the whole thing is less likely to work out since they are strangers, and thus chance are low that there being any payoff to anything complex enough that I couldn't come up with on the spot. Maybe that's pessimistic.
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Aug 10, 2018 09:08
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Best slice of life game? Chuubos? Golden Sky? Any others?
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Aug 10, 2018 18:02
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Ars Magica 
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Aug 10, 2018 19:14
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Well, you know what I'm going to say.
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Aug 10, 2018 19:14
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Splicer posted:No prep is wasted prep. If it doesn't work out for that game, use it in another game. I'd actually disagree with this from certain GMing styles. Personally, unless there's extenuating circumstances (such as having new players, with the justification above), I prefer to go in low-prep and be improv-heavy (and vastly prefer game systems that allow this). Overprepping actively makes my games less fun because I'm more likely to go with what I thought would be cool or fun on the drawing board instead of what seems cool or fun now.
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Aug 10, 2018 19:22
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Has anyone ever written up a mathematical comparison of dice systems in games as it relates to character progression? I think it would be neat to see how a +1 to hit in 3.5 compares with advancement in say, L5R or burning wheel. Which dice system makes the players able to perform harder tasks at lower levels? Which system makes players perform medium difficulty tasks with higher consistency?
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Aug 10, 2018 20:05
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