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Danaru posted:There was an episode of Voyager where Seven realized she'd been violated by a dude while unconscious and everyone but the doctor told her she was crazy and making it up, and in the end she actually was crazy and just made it up and I still want to know how the gently caress nobody said "UHH WHAT THE gently caress IS THIS" while defenestrating whoever wrote it I also want to know who the gently caress let that on the show. "Nah turns out you didn't get raped dumbass" is something I never thought I would see on Trek, like I was fully expecting the show to teach me a lesson about rape claims and how you should hear them out because its an awful thing for someone to go through but nah the moral was "WOMEN LIE ABOUT BEING RAPED".
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Aug 10, 2018 05:45
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AppleDan posted:I also want to know who the gently caress let that on the show. "Nah turns out you didn't get raped dumbass" is something I never thought I would see on Trek, like I was fully expecting the show to teach me a lesson about rape claims and how you should hear them out because its an awful thing for someone to go through but nah the moral was "WOMEN LIE ABOUT BEING RAPED". A reminder that Voyager is also responsible for such story ideas as "the  ) just because you haven't gotten over a single incident in your own childhood after 20+ years".
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Aug 10, 2018 06:13
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Timby posted:I mean, granted, it was still a better idea than the poo poo Maurice Hurley barfed out as his script concept--I'll never understand why they went back to him, of all people--but just as Insurrection and Nemesis are the People's exhibits A and B as to why you don't let the actors have creative control, Generations is a textbook example of why you don't have two television writers, both of whom are physically and mentally exhausted from working on the final seasons of TNG and especially the madness of writing the finale, write their first movie and have it be a crossover with James Kirk and destroying the goddamn Enterprise. Moore said they were basically writing the finale and the movie at the same time, and while brainstorming he and Braga would sometimes find themselves having to stop and go "...wait, are we talking about All Good Things, or Generations?" At least the series finale turned out well, despite Piller's rewrite. Going back to consult Maurice Hurley of all people was madness, but then none of the TNG movies seemed to attract any new talent. I have to wonder how much of that was "well, we already know these guys, and they know their place, so we won't have to butt heads with them as much", and how much was "nobody will touch the series with a ten-foot pole because of Roddenberry's insanity."
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Aug 10, 2018 06:41
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Neddy Seagoon posted:A reminder that Voyager is also responsible for such story ideas as "the What fun they had in the Delta Quadrant. It truly was the best Trek.
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Aug 10, 2018 06:43
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AppleDan posted:I also want to know who the gently caress let that on the show. "Nah turns out you didn't get raped dumbass" is something I never thought I would see on Trek, like I was fully expecting the show to teach me a lesson about rape claims and how you should hear them out because its an awful thing for someone to go through but nah the moral was "WOMEN LIE ABOUT BEING RAPED". You forgot the part where the accused gets himself killed due to the stress of it all. I have zero idea how that script made it. If anything Janeway should have been calling Seven crazy and Seven and Tuvok should have done some off the clock work. Then in the end she was raped and Janeway goes "I am sorry. I forgot that you should always look into such matters no matter how unlikely they sound." And wink at the camera or something.
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Aug 10, 2018 06:48
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Farmer Crack-rear end posted:but then none of the TNG movies seemed to attract any new talent. I have to wonder how much of that was "well, we already know these guys, and they know their place, so we won't have to butt heads with them as much", and how much was "nobody will touch the series with a ten-foot pole because of Roddenberry's insanity." I think, much like the Original Series movies, a lot of that came down to money. With two exceptions--The Voyage Home and then later First Contact--the Trek movies had never, ever been huge moneymakers for Paramount, but rather an easy, safe, relatively cheap way to make a bit of money every few years. For example, when Rick Berman talked to Ridley Scott--yes, Ridley loving Scott was approached to do a Star Trek movie--about doing First Contact, Scott asked how much he'd have to spend, Berman responded with "eh, $40 million or so, maybe a little more." Scott told him to go straight to hell because there was no way to make it work. John McTiernan also turned the movie down, and it's known that Stewart met with a director on his own but later decided that the guy "didn't get" Trek; the most frequent speculation I've read and heard has been that it was either Cameron or Dick Donner. The reason they hired Frakes, over Stewart's initial trepidation (given how much Stewart hated Winrich Kolbe by the end of All Good Things..., and blamed Carson for the madness of the Generations shoot, so he wasn't overly excited about the idea of working with another TV guy), is that every episode of TNG he had directed had come in early and under-budget. With the writers, it was the same way. Obviously Moore and Braga were burnt out when doing Generations, they dealt with a lot of behind-the-scenes fuckery on First Contact (including Stewart exercising his contractual right to have a writer of his choosing do a rewrite if he was unhappy after a certain number of drafts--that writer wound up being Ross LaManna, the well-known genius and auteur behind Rush Hour; after he worked on the script for two weeks, Rick Berman called Braga and Moore back and said, "Yeah, I'm sorry that happened, that was Patrick being Patrick, can you please fix all the poo poo this guy did?"), Piller was mentally checked-out and loving done with Trek on Insurrection, and John Logan on Nemesis ... well, we don't talk about Nemesis. Anyway, much like directors, they got the writers they did because they had experience knowing what to cut, how to cut it, how to rewrite around the tight budgets, stuff like that. (Except Baird. He just got his job because Sherry Lansing forced Berman to hire him.) Timby fucked around with this message at 07:22 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 07:15
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The General posted:You forgot the part where the accused gets himself killed due to the stress of it all. I have zero idea how that script made it. If anything Janeway should have been calling Seven crazy and Seven and Tuvok should have done some off the clock work. Then in the end she was raped and Janeway goes "I am sorry. I forgot that you should always look into such matters no matter how unlikely they sound." And wink at the camera or something. I feel like the actual ending came from an alternate universe where Voyager sucks and this is what we were supposed to get
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Aug 10, 2018 07:42
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Neddy Seagoon posted:A reminder that Voyager is also responsible for such story ideas as "the I remember that loving episode and I hate it
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Aug 10, 2018 07:43
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iirc the episode was inspired by the contemporary debunking of "hypnotic recall" to uncover suppressed memories, and the other perspective never occurred to them because they were Voyager writers
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Aug 10, 2018 07:59
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AppleDan posted:I feel like the actual ending came from an alternate universe where Voyager sucks and this is what we were supposed to get
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Aug 10, 2018 08:55
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Some people think Janeway was a good captain. You can't help some people.
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Aug 10, 2018 08:56
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drilldo squirt posted:Some people think Janeway was a good captain. You can't help some people. Those are people who know not to cross Diktator Janeway.
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Aug 10, 2018 08:59
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Janeway might have been a bad captain but tuvok is an even worse Lieutenant commander. "I'm vulcan, I dont have emotions, and yet everything i say is steeped in sarcasm and derisiveness".
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Aug 10, 2018 09:28
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drilldo squirt posted:Some people think Janeway was a good captain. You can't help some people. I think it was one of the kazon episodes where they spend ages agonising if they should give one race an advantage and change the balance of power and they decide to do it but it blows up in their face i sort of wish that janeway had been played more like galina
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Aug 10, 2018 09:53
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AppleDan posted:Janeway might have been a bad captain but tuvok is an even worse Lieutenant commander. "I'm vulcan, I dont have emotions, and yet everything i say is steeped in sarcasm and derisiveness". given that showing emotion is supposed to be the worst social taboo in vulcan culture, you would think the federation would have more rules about not teasing vulcans and trying to get them to lose control and show emotions essentially it would be like if an alien race had a human crew member and they thought it was funny to try and get him to poo poo himself
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Aug 10, 2018 10:00
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AppleDan posted:Janeway might have been a bad captain but tuvok is an even worse Lieutenant commander. "I'm vulcan, I dont have emotions, and yet everything i say is steeped in sarcasm and derisiveness". The Voyager had a toxic work environment. Imagine being that ship's counselor and dealing with poo poo like Janeway peeking into the personnel files to see which crewmembers are wavering in their slavish loyalty to her, Tuvok forcing subordinates to write murder simulators OR ELSE, and the bitchiest Chief Engineer in the quadrant making sure to take a poo poo in someone's cereal every loving morning. Bogus Adventure fucked around with this message at 10:13 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 10:05
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Bobby Deluxe posted:everyone is bad at playing vulcans because they are always just mildly angry rather than emotionless, especially the dude from enterprise / robot jox Back when I had dreams and ambition, I would wrote a general outline and characters for my own Star Trek series. I wanted to have the Doctor be a Vulcan. She wouldn't have been a huge rear end in a top hat or tool, as being conscientious and compassionate is logical when administering medical care. I wanted her to show a more positive side of Vulcans rather than the lazy, "these guys are unfeeling so they're assholes" trope that Star Trek is stuck in. gently caress, Vulcans aren't "unfeeling." They just don't let those feelings control them. Different Vulcans take it to different levels, like the rear end in a top hat Vulcan captain who was Sisko's rival. That moron saw demonstrating emotions as a sign of inferiority, which in turn made him a haughty motherfucker. Other Vulcans are like Sarek, who are much more calm and collected about how the virtue of suppressed emotions does not in turn make them superior to other species.
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Aug 10, 2018 10:13
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i personally thought zachary quinto was good at playing a vulcan, not just the detached logic but also the bit where he finally lost his poo poo and drat near killed kirk i always think of the tng episode with sarek, where it turns out vulcans have stronger emotions than humans, we just never see them except at the end where stewart gets to flex his acting chops again
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Aug 10, 2018 10:26
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Bobby Deluxe posted:i personally thought zachary quinto was good at playing a vulcan, not just the detached logic but also the bit where he finally lost his poo poo and drat near killed kirk Quinto was really good, but I figured I wouldn't include half-Vulcans like Spock. Nimoy really made Vulcans what they are, and Mark Lenard helped round out the rest of the details. Anyone else playing them has to do so in their shadows. Saavik was well done, and Valeris was interesting. I know Valeris was originally supposed to be Saavik, which would have been super depressing to see that Spock's protege had betrayed everything he worked towards.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:09
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Wrong thread because my Internet sucks balls
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Aug 10, 2018 11:13
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Ah, Voyager; ending the series on the ship flying towards Earth without any epilogue whatsoever. Meanwhile DS9 uses something like half the final episode playing montages of the various characters and their interpersonal relationships as they prepare to set off for new jobs and bid goodbye to eachother. It's a wonderful finale from a team that clearly cared about their work  .Bobby Deluxe posted:i liked how she ended one episode with a big speech about how it's especially important to follow the rules of the federation out here, and then within the first few minutes of the next episode she says something like 'well we're a long way away from the federation' Janeway manages to get all the Kazon factions into a room with their former oppressors, with everyone congenially open to peace talks until said former oppressors try to backstab the Kazon. Janeway's verdict is that peace is impossible with the Kazon and they are never, ever, to try it again.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:13
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You also have to remember that Spock was as much a Vulcaboo as Worf was a Klingaboo. I mean, here's a guy pretty much constantly derided for most of his life for being too human, and overcompensating as a result. Even his dad got in on it, Spock got no relief. Vulcans damned well know they have emotions, they can talk all they want about logic and being emotionless but they still have their tiny little social faux-pas, like an occasional smile, or sharp-witted retort. But god forbid Spock get to engage in any of those faux-pas, he'd be constantly met with "So human!" "Oh he can't help himself, it's his human side." No loving wonder the guy left for Starfleet, facing a lifetime of putting up with that bullshit. And let's face it, every single Vulcan you ever saw on screen had some witty quip at some point. If they'd ever relax to human emotional standards, they'd be an entire race of that one guy who talks a line of poo poo to all his friends and whose friends love him for it. "Hey fuckface, I heard they made you captain. I bet they'll regret that, don't break your ship. Call me if you need anything, rear end-nugget. See you at Starbase 31, we'll get beers." rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 11:20 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 11:16
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quote != edit
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Aug 10, 2018 11:20
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It starts with something innocuous, like beers, but then some green-blooded sonuvabitch has to break out the Romulan Ale and then someone ends up in the ER and another in an unmarked grave.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:21
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Bogus Adventure posted:It starts with something innocuous, like beers, but then some green-blooded sonuvabitch has to break out the Romulan Ale and then someone ends up in the ER and another in an unmarked grave. Something I've always liked in Babylon 5 is the reason Minbari don't drink alcohol because it makes them psychotically violent. Even Londo Mollari's smart enough to avoid seeing that happen in a bar.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:25
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Bogus Adventure posted:It starts with something innocuous, like beers, but then some green-blooded sonuvabitch has to break out the Romulan Ale and then someone ends up in the ER and another in an unmarked grave. The Vulcan would be the one to break out of the holding cell so he can hijack you from the hospital to make sure you get back to your ship in mostly one piece, then disavow all knowledge of your presence at the evening's "activities". All the while commenting on how small your dick is and how many times he had your mom. e. and that's my Vulcan headcanon. They're aloof, arrogant, emotionless and surprisingly smartassed, but when you make a friend out of one then he has your back for life. And likely your grandkids lives as well. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 11:29 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 11:25
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Neddy Seagoon posted:Something I've always liked in Babylon 5 is the reason Minbari don't drink alcohol because it makes them psychotically violent. Even Londo Mollari's smart enough to avoid seeing that happen in a bar. I started watching Babylon 5 for the Starfuries, but I kept watching for Londo. rndmnmbr posted:The Vulcan would be the one to break out of the holding cell so he can hijack you from the hospital to make sure you get back to your ship in mostly one piece, then disavow all knowledge of your presence at the evening's "activities". All the while commenting on how small your dick is and how many times he had your mom. Lol, I'd beware about testing that headcanon with this guy:  Solok? Moar liek Suck-lok. Ell oh ell, am i rite?
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Aug 10, 2018 11:34
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Bogus Adventure posted:Lol, I'd beware about testing that headcanon with this guy: That's not a friend, that's some douchebag you met in college and twenty years later he still occasionally shows up to rub it in your face about how rich he is and how many Lambos he's wrecked and how much pussy he slays every night. Every species has their "hat", but it turns out insecure rear end in a top hat really is universal. e. That's also one of the things I loved about Stargate SG-1. The Goa'uld as a whole, taking into account both System Lords and Tok'ra (and Ba'al, especially Ba'al), well it turns out that their "hat" is pretentious rear end in a top hat, the whole "evil god" shtick is only what some of them do for a hobby. rndmnmbr fucked around with this message at 11:47 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 11:40
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rndmnmbr posted:That's not a friend, that's some douchebag you met in college and twenty years later he still occasionally shows up to rub it in your face about how rich he is and how many Lambos he's wrecked and how much pussy he slays every night. 
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Aug 10, 2018 11:43
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rndmnmbr posted:Spock got no relief.
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Aug 10, 2018 12:34
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AppleDan posted:Janeway might have been a bad captain but tuvok is an even worse Lieutenant commander. "I'm vulcan, I dont have emotions, and yet everything i say is steeped in sarcasm and derisiveness". Uh, the point of Vulcans isn't that they don't have emotions, it's that they keep their emotions in check with logic and self discipline. It's supposedly only an order of Vulcan monks who completely purge themselves of emotion. You see Tuvok without his emotional control a few times in the show. He goes from a cynical, sarcastic dude to a homicidal sociopath who hates everyone on this godforsaken ship.
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Aug 10, 2018 13:36
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Next series need a Pakled doctor. Your arm feels bad. Medicine makes you feel good.
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Aug 10, 2018 13:51
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Vulcan maquis lady was both an excellent vulcan and one of the only not-poo poo maquis at the same time. It's a shame it was such a bit character.
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Aug 10, 2018 13:56
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I'd like a Tellarite doctor. You have to argue your way to proper treatment. If the doctor wins, you're diagnosis is to "walk it off." "Yes, what do you want? You're arm is broken? I disagree, it appears to be bruised at best. You think you know medicine better than me? Let me tell you something you snot-nosed upstart, I was top of my class at the academy! You're arm's not broken until I say it's broken! What's that? Ah, NOW you finally point out that the ulna is protruding from the skin and causing massive bleeding. What an amateurish mistake to leave your strongest evidence out of the initial assertion! Now, sit down over there while I prepare the laser scalpel. I can heal it, and tears can dry."
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Aug 10, 2018 14:38
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A cardassian doctor knows your diagnosis before you show up, but still examines you because the people demand it.
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Aug 10, 2018 14:42
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:A cardassian doctor knows your diagnosis before you show up, but still examines you because the people demand it. Dammit, I laughed  .
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Aug 10, 2018 14:42
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Cardassian Hospital Admin: While this hospital finds that O'Brien carries the phage, in the interest of improved relations with the federation we are releasing Miles O'Brien into their custody. Cardassian Doctor: What just happened!? Nurstor Odo: He's cured, doctor. Congratulations. CD: No, I'll be killed!
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Aug 10, 2018 14:49
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A.I. Borgland Corp posted:A cardassian doctor knows your diagnosis before you show up, but still examines you because the people demand it. Perhaps he has a flaxian flu? Its never the flaxian flu. Perhaps he contacted a Bajoran STD? Almost clever, but actually fallen short of the mark. Yes he has abrasions on his neck in the pattern or a Bajoran nose and the lacerations around his pelvis are consistent with being cut by those drat dangling earrings. However note the weak stare, the lack of bravado, and the missing cruel sneer. As I knew the moment this Cardassian walked in, its Acute Bajoran Homicide Deficiency. Another successful diagnosis Dr Dosek, that's the fifth case today. Its always the correct diagnosis.
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Aug 10, 2018 14:54
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rndmnmbr posted:e. That's also one of the things I loved about Stargate SG-1. The Goa'uld as a whole, taking into account both System Lords and Tok'ra (and Ba'al, especially Ba'al), well it turns out that their "hat" is pretentious rear end in a top hat, the whole "evil god" shtick is only what some of them do for a hobby. Oh yeah, the gou'ald are tremendous assholes. Even the Tok'ra that gets all up into Carter's dad is a dick. I guess a sense of haughty superiority is in their DNA? And the dude that played Ba'al looked like he was having fun while being an egomaniacal dick.
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Aug 10, 2018 15:01
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MA-Horus posted:Oh yeah, the gou'ald are tremendous assholes. Even the Tok'ra that gets all up into Carter's dad is a dick. I guess a sense of haughty superiority is in their DNA? And the dude that played Ba'al looked like he was having fun while being an egomaniacal dick. Every time Carter - or hell, anyone - took Ba'al down a peg or two was good times. The best Goa'uld was Yu, though. Don't bug him and he won't bug you. No trouble, no problems, and willing to help when some other Goa'uld got too big for their britches. Shame about him going senile, though.
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Aug 10, 2018 15:08
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