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COMRADES posted:Yeah I guess it could have done without the "our entire field is bad at what we do" bit and it would have worked just as well if not better. Yeah I mean it's a true statement of fact but that's only 1 of many counterarguments
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Aug 10, 2018 19:22
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COMRADES posted:Yeah I guess it could have done without the "our entire field is bad at what we do" bit and it would have worked just as well if not better. The comic actually would work fine if it had just ended with the third frame. Everything after that is pointless  .
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Aug 10, 2018 21:38
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You guys are killing the joke so I guess I'll pile on. The problem isn't just that we're bad at what we do, it's that software complexity and interoperability leads to more security vulnerabilities. You can make really dumb software that is secure. One of my internships in college was removing core functions of a language so we could put it in embedded hardware and math geeks could write proofs that the software did what it said it did and nothing else. When it comes to a nationwide (or even statewide) voting system it's going to have a bureaucratic swiss army knife list of requirements and will be written by the lowest bidder who rushed through mocked screens and a fake back end to win the contract before later trying to flesh it out.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:18
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6050, it's almost happy thread title day
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Aug 10, 2018 22:21
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Even if everything is implemented perfectly (which will never happen), hardware still breaks down. Voting computers are a terrible idea.
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Aug 10, 2018 22:22
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Harveygod posted:The comic actually would work fine if it had just ended with the third frame. Everything after that is pointless its almost like the comics are supposed to end with a gaping anus 
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Aug 10, 2018 22:37
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QuarkJets posted:Yeah In fairness, the state of computer engineering compared to other engineering disciplines is like, absolute garbage. Hire a bad structural engineer for your critical project and you get a lawsuit on your hands. Hire a bad software engineer for your project, hell that’s just Tuesday.
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Aug 10, 2018 23:14
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Dewgy posted:In fairness, the state of computer engineering compared to other engineering disciplines is like, absolute garbage. We get lawsuits, where the bumblefuck do you work?
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Aug 11, 2018 00:03
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Dewgy posted:In fairness, the state of computer engineering compared to other engineering disciplines is like, absolute garbage. ftfy
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Aug 11, 2018 00:08
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my unit testing is on point
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Aug 11, 2018 00:20
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If there's any indication of how loving burnt out everyone is on bitcoin it lost more than a quarter of its value in 10 days (AGAIN) and there was barely a page of new posts. And those posts were about a stupid voating donkchain rather than bitcoin price.
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Aug 11, 2018 00:25
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Burt Sexual posted:I worked for RSA I have an RSA and RSG
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Aug 11, 2018 01:21
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Hey, would you like your JPEG images to be DRMed? Blockchain can help !!
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Aug 11, 2018 01:25
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Rock Puncher posted:I have an RSA and RSG I don’t know what that is. But it’s less than a RBG I know.
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Aug 11, 2018 01:33
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Client of mine keeps getting these Bitcoin ransom emails. He is really worried, maybe he did watch porn. Pretty funny.quote:It appears that, (ginpfot1), 's your password. Will possibly not know me and you are probably wondering why you're getting this e-mail, right?
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Aug 11, 2018 02:43
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Aug 11, 2018 02:57
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Aug 11, 2018 03:01
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Thread title truth imminent. 
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Aug 11, 2018 03:17
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Burt Sexual posted:We get lawsuits, where the bumblefuck do you work? He's not saying software engineers don't get lawsuits, he's saying that hosed up software engineering is just par for the course, moreso than other fields
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Aug 11, 2018 22:06
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QuarkJets posted:He's not saying software engineers don't get lawsuits, he's saying that hosed up software engineering is just par for the course, moreso than other fields Maybe because they control everything now? I mean name another “field” that impacts as much as computers.w
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Aug 11, 2018 22:16
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Heath posted:Thread title truth imminent. Bitcoin is under $6000. Even the pyramids had a shorter block time.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:23
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twerking on the railroad posted:Bitcoin is under $6000. Even the pyramids had a shorter block time. post the valuation charts i can't finish without them 
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Aug 11, 2018 23:30
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Andy Dufresne posted:You guys are killing the joke so I guess I'll pile on. The problem isn't just that we're bad at what we do, it's that software complexity and interoperability leads to more security vulnerabilities. You can make really dumb software that is secure. One of my internships in college was removing core functions of a language so we could put it in embedded hardware and math geeks could write proofs that the software did what it said it did and nothing else. When it comes to a nationwide (or even statewide) voting system it's going to have a bureaucratic swiss army knife list of requirements and will be written by the lowest bidder who rushed through mocked screens and a fake back end to win the contract before later trying to flesh it out. I'd also suggest that the work of a software engineer is generally less likely to be double checked than the other examples of a building engineer or an aircraft engineer. If you engineer a building it has to follow legally binding rules that have been developed over hundreds of years of accidents. You have to submit your plans to regulators and get the building inspector to sign off on everything. Then your plans go through a (hopefully experienced and diligent) building contractor who isn't an engineer but is another chance for your mistakes to be caught. It's not perfect and novel problems still pop up, like curved buildings with glass fronts concentrating solar radiation and causing damage to things nearby, but there are lots of chances for a mistake to be caught. My impression with software is that it doesn't usually get that kind of comprehensive review by fresh eyes. If the software seems to do what it is supposed to do, then there generally won't be a third party inspection. It also doesn't need to be flawless, because in general updating flawed code is much easier than retrofitting a flawed building.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:40
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 A stable store of value
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Aug 11, 2018 23:40
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QuarkJets posted:He's not saying software engineers don't get lawsuits, he's saying that hosed up software engineering is just par for the course, moreso than other fields Bingo. I know lawsuits happen in software but there’s a lot of coding practices that are definitely not engineering. lovely code that compiles and technically, barely does the job is pretty much the norm.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:43
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Heath posted:
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Aug 12, 2018 00:56
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Dewgy posted:Bingo. I know lawsuits happen in software but there’s a lot of coding practices that are definitely not engineering. lovely code that compiles and technically, barely does the job is pretty much the norm. ya, this is the load bearing drywall, mystery pvc to nothing, insulated interior stairs equiv of an engineer
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Aug 12, 2018 04:01
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It's a big industry. I'm drunk so maybe more likely to be defensive than normal but making sweeping generalizations about the software industry seems fruitless. I can point out two teams within a single company that have vastly different quality. And they don't charge the same rate.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:19
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Andy Dufresne posted:It's a big industry. I'm drunk so maybe more likely to be defensive than normal but making sweeping generalizations about the software industry seems fruitless. I can point out two teams within a single company that have vastly different quality. And they don't charge the same rate. ok great but there are industry standards for engineers for software , there is poo poo ok there are RFCs, but lol if anyone reads them. Theres owasp which is good and cool but again lol unless it is built in
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Aug 12, 2018 04:23
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Yeah I'm not trying to argue that point, you're right. I don't know how you would establish standards though and I review code as part of my job.
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Aug 12, 2018 04:28
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Andy Dufresne posted:It's a big industry. I'm drunk so maybe more likely to be defensive than normal but making sweeping generalizations about the software industry seems fruitless. I can point out two teams within a single company that have vastly different quality. And they don't charge the same rate. two words: “printer software” the exception is not the norm, companies are more than able to succeed despite being absolutely loving terrible
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Aug 12, 2018 04:55
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Business systems are a broad spectrum from ancient bullshit with load bearing comments to visual C the bosses kid did on a summer internship to stuff audited by a dozen people for SOX compliance. Blockchain is gunning for the latter which makes it funnier/interesting/stupid
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Aug 12, 2018 05:04
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zedprime posted:Business systems are a broad spectrum from ancient bullshit with load bearing comments to visual C the bosses kid did on a summer internship to stuff audited by a dozen people for SOX compliance. full region infrastructure running off a server under someone’s desk call center run off a tape drive that can’t be turned off, ever i have seen both in the last decade, one is a well known electronics reseller and the other’s a household name bank i leave it to you to guess which is which
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Aug 12, 2018 05:08
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Facebook Aunt posted:I'd also suggest that the work of a software engineer is generally less likely to be double checked than the other examples of a building engineer or an aircraft engineer. You’ve never wrote mission critical software I’m guessing. E we don’t write video game drivers you absolute idiots. gently caress. Burt Sexual fucked around with this message at 05:39 on Aug 12, 2018 |
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Aug 12, 2018 05:36
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Burt Sexual posted:You’ve never wrote mission critical software I’m guessing. Right, but we're talking about the whole industry. Every building is supposed to be built with building codes and inspectors and whatnot - even in small towns there is suppose to be a building inspector. There is no general city code inspector for software. Some projects will have auditors, but not every project. So far what we know about voting software is that nearly all of it has been hacked by russians, lol. It is certainly possible to write secure voting software, but it doesn't seem to have been done yet. Maybe democracy doesn't rate mission critical software? Maybe critical election software just shouldn't be connected to a network? I dunno. Right now it looks like people are right to be worried about it though.
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Aug 12, 2018 11:01
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Facebook Aunt posted:It is certainly possible to write secure voting software
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Aug 12, 2018 11:48
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Facebook Aunt posted:Right, but we're talking about the whole industry. Every building is supposed to be built with building codes and inspectors and whatnot - even in small towns there is suppose to be a building inspector. There is no general city code inspector for software. Some projects will have auditors, but not every project. As for voting, it's almost like the goals are disenfranchisement, huh?
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Aug 12, 2018 12:38
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This thred  Me 
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Aug 12, 2018 14:41
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Aug 12, 2018 14:42
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We banned voting machines ten years ago. Then it was paper billets counted with a computer. Now it’s all by hand. Last year I was one of the people checking the results countrywide and it was rare to find a polling station that did not gently caress up at all. It’s alright because mistakes are small and random, but still. Some tired volunteer may well have miscounted your vote. One thing we don’t get is theories about the government rigging elections. Probably not because of the lack of computers though, there’s just less distrust in government. The proportional system also makes it harder to sway results. E: oh poo poo we’re back on bitcoin
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Aug 12, 2018 14:49
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