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Brother Entropy
Dec 27, 2009

Avalerion posted:

I know it sucked in early gens but flareon did learn flare blitz for a while now. :confused:

one good stab move is the bare minimum every 'mon should get

you could name off at least half a dozen physical fire types with more going on than flareon

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BlazetheInferno
Jun 6, 2015

Avalerion posted:

I know it sucked in early gens but flareon did learn flare blitz for a while now. :confused:

The problem is, it still has lovely HP - combine that with its sky high attack, Flare Blitz' raw power, and the fact that it's STAB, using it is basically suicidal.

less laughter
May 7, 2012

Accelerock & Roll

Avalerion posted:

I know it sucked in early gens but flareon did learn flare blitz for a while now. :confused:

And it's still PU

Zuzie
Jun 30, 2005

I got this for a Ratatta on GTS.


I guess most people wanted Flareon to learn Flare Blitz due to its English name alone. There aren't that many physical fire moves to begin with, and almost all of them either too weak (Fire Fang), involve anatomy Flareon doesn't have (Fire Punch), or are signature attacks of Legendaries (Sacred Fire). Even if Flareon could learn that perfect fire move, it still has problems like being very slow and having paper thin defense (which is never a good combination in a game like Pokémon).

Bad movepools are a common problem among Eeveelutions, but Flareon and Glaceon get the worst of it due to being quadrupeds in a game where bipedal monsters have wider movepools due to "realism".

Avalerion
Oct 19, 2012

Fair enough, guess i just don’t expect much from monotypes anyway.

Solumin
Jan 11, 2013
Eeveelutions are really cool and super cute but there's never any reason to use half of them because they're bad. Flareon is the most egregious of them all.

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...


Zuzie posted:

I guess most people wanted Flareon to learn Flare Blitz due to its English name alone. There aren't that many physical fire moves to begin with, and almost all of them either too weak (Fire Fang), involve anatomy Flareon doesn't have (Fire Punch), or are signature attacks of Legendaries (Sacred Fire). Even if Flareon could learn that perfect fire move, it still has problems like being very slow and having paper thin defense (which is never a good combination in a game like Pokémon).

Bad movepools are a common problem among Eeveelutions, but Flareon and Glaceon get the worst of it due to being quadrupeds in a game where bipedal monsters have wider movepools due to "realism".

I honestly wanted to give it an -ate ability so it can turn those Returns and Double-edges into crazy Fire tackles.

Red Metal
Oct 23, 2012

Let me tell you about Homestuck

Fun Shoe

Avalerion posted:

I know it sucked in early gens but flareon did learn flare blitz for a while now. :confused:

it still has gently caress-all for physical coverage

less laughter
May 7, 2012

Accelerock & Roll

Rudoku posted:

I honestly wanted to give it an -ate ability so it can turn those Returns and Double-edges into crazy Fire tackles.

...Incinerate...

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

all eevees are good

less laughter
May 7, 2012

Accelerock & Roll
except Flareon, the Simisear of Eeveelutions in so many ways

Rudoku
Jun 15, 2003

Damn I need a drink...


less laughter posted:

...Incinerate...

More like Burninate

less laughter
May 7, 2012

Accelerock & Roll
e: nm

TaurusOxford
Feb 10, 2009

Dad of the Year 2021

Super No Vacancy posted:

all eevees are good

False Swipe Gaming disagrees. :v:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AYrfPJRRPb8

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things

Solumin posted:

Eeveelutions are really cool and super cute but there's never any reason to use half of them because they're bad. Flareon is the most egregious of them all.

Yeah. You have Sylveon and Vaporeon as 'actually good' with Espeon and Jolteon having niches and good stats and abilities. Umbreon and Leafeon are moderately usable even if they aren't great.

But Glaceon and Flareon are just bad

Super No Vacancy
Jul 26, 2012

they’re good actually

Zore
Sep 21, 2010
willfully illiterate, aggressively miserable sourpuss whose sole raison d’etre is to put other people down for liking the wrong things
Also people never mention Flareon's real issue in these discussions; it's slow as balls. If literally the only thing about it that changed was you shoved it's 110 SP. Def into its speed stat instead it would be fairly usable.

Countblanc
Apr 20, 2005

Help a hero out!
I'd rather flareon be bulky than fast so move its special attack to HP instead

ZenMasterBullshit
Nov 2, 2011

Restaurant de Nouvelles "À Table" Proudly Presents:
A Climactic Encounter Ending on 1 Negate and a Dream

Avalerion posted:

I know it sucked in early gens but flareon did learn flare blitz for a while now. :confused:

It still sucks and one move doesn't fix it.

Hellioning
Jun 27, 2008

One day, generations over than 1 will get cool stuff.

One day.

Schubalts
Nov 26, 2007

People say bigger is better.

But for the first time in my life, I think I've gone too far.

Rudoku posted:

I honestly wanted to give it an -ate ability so it can turn those Returns and Double-edges into crazy Fire tackles.

This, this, this. Give every Eeveelution an elemental change ability.

Eox
Jun 20, 2010

by Fluffdaddy
They will all fall under Mega Eevee, who randomly evolves whenever it takes damage. Hope the first hit gives you a Vaporeon!

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

https://twitter.com/naminaminamikan...ingawful.com%2F

U.T. Raptor
May 11, 2010

Are you a pack of imbeciles!?

Brother Entropy posted:

one good stab move is the bare minimum every 'mon should get
Every type should have at least two good, solid 80-90 BP moves without any drawbacks (one physical, and one special) that basically everything of that type learns. Also Nasty Plot should be as widespread as Swords Dance is (or the latter should be much rarer, pick one and stick to it Gamefreak).

In particular there's a bunch of types whose physical options go from "move with 60-ish BP" to "100+BP move that has low PP and/or hurts you" with nothing except the occasional signature move in between. Fire's probably the worst of the lot, especially for things that miss out on Fire Punch/Fang for beep boop flavor reasons (Talonflame, for example, gets nothing between Flame Charge and Flare Blitz, because giving it Fire Fang on the grounds that beaks count as fangs would be thinking too far outside the box, I guess), followed extremely closely by special Rock and physical Ghost.

Ultima66
Sep 2, 2008

U.T. Raptor posted:

Every type should have at least two good, solid 80-90 BP moves without any drawbacks (one physical, and one special) that basically everything of that type learns. Also Nasty Plot should be as widespread as Swords Dance is (or the latter should be much rarer, pick one and stick to it Gamefreak).

In particular there's a bunch of types whose physical options go from "move with 60-ish BP" to "100+BP move that has low PP and/or hurts you" with nothing except the occasional signature move in between. Fire's probably the worst of the lot, especially for things that miss out on Fire Punch/Fang for beep boop flavor reasons (Talonflame, for example, gets nothing between Flame Charge and Flare Blitz, because giving it Fire Fang on the grounds that beaks count as fangs would be thinking too far outside the box, I guess), followed extremely closely by special Rock and physical Ghost.

I'm of two minds about this. It's something I felt like I really wanted originally, but then I played TPDP (Touhou Pokemon built from the ground up with Pokemon mechanics but all items/moves/abilities/etc are renamed and the type chart is different) and they do this. Everything in the game's moveset ends up looking like 90 power STAB of one type, 90 power STAB of second type, 90 power coverage move, flex slot. Sometimes you replace the 90 power moves with 110 power moves with drawbacks a la Fire Blast/Hydro Pump. Everything following the same template really makes things in the game feel a lot less distinct.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Blaze Dragon
Aug 28, 2013
LOWTAX'S SPINE FUND

Glaceon just seems really confused. I guess it expected Eevee to follow instead of disappearing into colours.

oddium
Feb 21, 2006

end of the 4.5 tatami age

it's confused because a shiny eevee goes in but normies come out

RatHat
Dec 31, 2007

A tiny behatted rat👒🐀!
It's confused because you don't get black from a prism.

Fur20
Nov 14, 2007

すご▞い!
君は働か░い
フ▙▓ズなんだね!
that's not black it's a really dark purple

e: according to photoshop it's a dark grey

the holy poopacy
May 16, 2009

hey! check this out
Fun Shoe

Ultima66 posted:

I'm of two minds about this. It's something I felt like I really wanted originally, but then I played TPDP (Touhou Pokemon built from the ground up with Pokemon mechanics but all items/moves/abilities/etc are renamed and the type chart is different) and they do this. Everything in the game's moveset ends up looking like 90 power STAB of one type, 90 power STAB of second type, 90 power coverage move, flex slot. Sometimes you replace the 90 power moves with 110 power moves with drawbacks a la Fire Blast/Hydro Pump. Everything following the same template really makes things in the game feel a lot less distinct.

I think the first part (good basic moves should exist for every type) is good, but they should still play around with the distribution. Occasionally GF does it right and omits a good second STAB for something strong that helps make it a bit more reasonable (Gyarados, Landorus-T, etc.) but since it's mostly based on theme it's a crapshoot.

indigi
Jul 20, 2004

how can we not talk about family
when family's all that we got?

this image is anti-trans

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Nth Doctor posted:

I got codes. I got gimmicks. I don't got a spreadsheet of codes yet. Expect a giveaway of five whenever I find the gumption to cover my desk in scratch off dust.

I did all the scratch-offs and have everything set so here we go.
:siren: TIME FOR A GIVEAWAY :siren:
This month's gimmick comes from Dr. Red Ranger:

quote:

I think it would be fun to draw a mega-form for your favorite pokemon that doesn't have one. Plenty of room for creativity and it's a topic of endless wish listing and meta-theory crafting. Show the mega-form, give a description of the stat changes, ability changes, and so on. Alternatively, new Z moves if that's your jam.

I have Kyogre / Groudon Codes for the first FIVE goons to MSPaint up a mega-form of a pokemon that doesn't currently have a mega. Show us your spin on your favorite trash dex filler, folks!
Deets on the changes are nice to have, but not required for the prize. Happy sketching!

Abundant Atrophy
Nov 3, 2012

Nth Doctor posted:

I did all the scratch-offs and have everything set so here we go.
:siren: TIME FOR A GIVEAWAY :siren:
This month's gimmick comes from Dr. Red Ranger:

quote:

I think it would be fun to draw a mega-form for your favorite pokemon that doesn't have one. Plenty of room for creativity and it's a topic of endless wish listing and meta-theory crafting. Show the mega-form, give a description of the stat changes, ability changes, and so on. Alternatively, new Z moves if that's your jam.

I have Kyogre / Groudon Codes for the first FIVE goons to MSPaint up a mega-form of a pokemon that doesn't currently have a mega. Show us your spin on your favorite trash dex filler, folks!
Deets on the changes are nice to have, but not required for the prize. Happy sketching!



Toxicroak is objectively the coolest Gen 4 pokemon, so giving it a mega is a long over-due. For this evolution the stats go from the kind dull, 83/106/65/85/65/85 to a breakneck 83/136/50/130/50/130. Taking a page from the Mega Beedrill school of stat changes. By keeping the unique poison/fighting, it can utilize the strong moves and with an ability change to Merciless, this dirty frog will punch, poison, and, ironically, clean-up the battlefield.

If it's based on a tropical frog that can break its bones, going in a gauze direction, but also multiply the spikes into a psuedo-studded-jacket seemed the way to go.

Diet Poison
Jan 20, 2008

LICK MY ASS


The changes are subtle but if you look real hard... you will get punched 16 times at once.

Electric Phantasm
Apr 7, 2011

YOSPOS

indigi posted:

this image is anti-trans

It's just old and made before Slyveon. Wonder if the artist ever updated it?

Ariong
Jun 25, 2012

Get bashed, platonist!

Mega Unown! Way higher special attack, with additional boosts to special defense, defense, and speed. Attack and defense either stay the same or go down, but who needs it?

Though unable to evolve, the surge of evolutionary energy provided by the Key Stone has a strange effect on Unown's physiology. Mega Unown do not resemble the english alphabet, but rather take the form of strange sigils which seem to resonate with a certain pokemon type. These new shapes amplify the odd power contained within the Unown. The main body changes shape to maintain the form best suited to fighting the current opponent. Additionally, smaller runes constantly break off from and are reabsorbed into the main body.



Mega Unown has an ability which does 2 things.

1) Makes it so its Hidden Power always takes the same type is its current form.
2) Causes it to shift into an advantageous form whenever it or an enemy pokemon enters battle.

So, if your opponent swaps in a Weavile, Mega Unown will immediately shift into Fighting Form. (right) The pupils are color coded to allow both players to tell at a glance what the current form is. There's a form for every type.

Diet Poison posted:



The changes are subtle but if you look real hard... you will get punched 16 times at once.

This is good, but I think that each Machamp hand should be a Machoke body, and each Machoke hand should be a Machop body.

Ariong fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Aug 14, 2018

ChrisBTY
Mar 29, 2012

this glorious monument

Diet Poison posted:

The changes are subtle but if you look real hard... you will get punched 16 times at once.

I think I made my D&D group fight this once.

Nth Doctor
Sep 7, 2010

Darkrai used Dream Eater!
It's super effective!


Abundant Atrophy posted:



Toxicroak is objectively the coolest Gen 4 pokemon, so giving it a mega is a long over-due. For this evolution the stats go from the kind dull, 83/106/65/85/65/85 to a breakneck 83/136/50/130/50/130. Taking a page from the Mega Beedrill school of stat changes. By keeping the unique poison/fighting, it can utilize the strong moves and with an ability change to Merciless, this dirty frog will punch, poison, and, ironically, clean-up the battlefield.

If it's based on a tropical frog that can break its bones, going in a gauze direction, but also multiply the spikes into a psuedo-studded-jacket seemed the way to go.

Nice artwork. Code is sent.

Diet Poison posted:



The changes are subtle but if you look real hard... you will get punched 16 times at once.

Good job. The machampachampachamp would be fearsome on the field. Where should I send your code?

Ariong posted:

Mega Unown! Way higher special attack, with additional boosts to special defense, defense, and speed. Attack and defense either stay the same or go down, but who needs it?

Though unable to evolve, the surge of evolutionary energy provided by the Key Stone has a strange effect on Unown's physiology. Mega Unown do not resemble the english alphabet, but rather take the form of strange sigils which seem to resonate with a certain pokemon type. These new shapes amplify the odd power contained within the Unown. The main body changes shape to maintain the form best suited to fighting the current opponent. Additionally, smaller runes constantly break off from and are reabsorbed into the main body.



Mega Unown has an ability which does 2 things.

1) Makes it so its Hidden Power always takes the same type is its current form.
2) Causes it to shift into an advantageous form whenever it or an enemy pokemon enters battle.

So, if your opponent swaps in a Weavile, Mega Unown will immediately shift into Fighting Form. (right) The pupils are color coded to allow both players to tell at a glance what the current form is. There's a form for every type.


This is good, but I think that each Machamp hand should be a Machoke body, and each Machoke hand should be a Machop body.

I always thought Sigilyph was a Mega Unown :v:

Code is sent.

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Forsythia
Jan 28, 2007

You want bad advice?

Anything is okay if you don't get caught!

... I hope this helps!


Mega Chatot. It dumps the musical motif because it's not interested in being lyrical anymore. Instead, it uses horrible, full-power screams to win its fights and has the meanest Boomburst in the business. Trainers are advised to bring earplugs and Soundproof Pokémon.

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