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e.pilot posted:This just reenforces what I tell my students, anyone can take off and fly, landing is the tricky part. While true, I don't think he had any intention of doing an actual landing.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:10
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fknlo posted:Obviously there are already a ton of people saying the F15's shot him down. I know that logic and conspiracy theorists aren't on speaking terms, but like... why would that be something they lie about? There's nothing to cover up, the whole mission of those planes is to go shoot down rogue aircraft exactly like that. What exactly would they lose by stating that they shot the plane down? If anything you'd think it would show that they're willing to do it and hopefully discourage other people from attempting similar acts. Not to mention getting all the ordnance, maintenance, supply, etc. guys at the base to ignore the fact that a missile or two has coincidentally failed to come back with the jet.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:12
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fknlo posted:While true, I don't think he had any intention of doing an actual landing. Well yeah
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Aug 11, 2018 18:16
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https://twitter.com/cameronthomsen/status/1028157648158568448 Was the roll actually posted? Either way I want the audio from that F-15
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Aug 11, 2018 18:16
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https://i.imgur.com/0BXCEtt.gifv
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Aug 11, 2018 18:17
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e.pilot posted:This just reenforces what I tell my students, anyone can take off and fly, landing is the tricky part. That's why you steal something with Cat III autoland, and spend some time learning how to manually program the FMS. Not that I've thought about these things. About how easy it would be until they shoot you down. But, if all the fighters were engaged in an apocalyptic alien invasion, it would be pretty easy to accomplish with the right security access and knowhow. An accomplice would be handy to help with refuelling and pushback, unless you get one that's parked on a remote stand or by the hangar. I'd probably go for an A330/340.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:23
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"Aeronautical Insanity: I don't need much help, I've played videogames before" Shouldn't cause any length problems, it's four less characters than the current title.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:24
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Cat Mattress posted:"Aeronautical Insanity: I don't need much help, I've played videogames before" I asked the boss, hopefully they can use some editorial discretion.
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Aug 11, 2018 18:25
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Holy poo poo, ATC Memes become reality
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Aug 11, 2018 18:29
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I know that logic and conspiracy theorists aren't on speaking terms, but like... why would that be something they lie about? There's nothing to cover up, the whole mission of those planes is to go shoot down rogue aircraft exactly like that. What exactly would they lose by stating that they shot the plane down? If anything you'd think it would show that they're willing to do it and hopefully discourage other people from attempting similar acts. When you start with the conclusion "I'm completely right" and then work backwards, pretty much everything works
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Aug 11, 2018 18:47
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I know that logic and conspiracy theorists aren't on speaking terms, but like... why would that be something they lie about? There's nothing to cover up, the whole mission of those planes is to go shoot down rogue aircraft exactly like that. What exactly would they lose by stating that they shot the plane down? If anything you'd think it would show that they're willing to do it and hopefully discourage other people from attempting similar acts. Killing a citizen with military action without due process is — at a philosophical What is America sense — not a great look, and feeds into a lot of conspiratorial narratives about the big bad government hiding its misdeeds.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:03
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dupersaurus posted:Killing a citizen with military action without due process is — at a philosophical What is America sense — not a great look, and feeds into a lot of conspiratorial narratives about the big bad government hiding its misdeeds. If this guy wasn't just hot-dogging around and primarily being a threat to himself, due process would likely be "he took a plane and is flying directly into a major city and refusing to answer or respond to headbutts and flare passes. Fox 2" Just like if you rammed through the gate of a military installation with a dump truck, the MPs are still going to shoot you dead without waiting for a court date. Right or wrong, the government has decided "due process" doesn't mean time in court in extreme circumstances.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:12
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mlmp08 posted:If this guy wasn't just hot-dogging around and primarily being a threat to himself, due process would likely be "he took a plane and is flying directly into a major city and refusing to answer or respond to headbutts and flare passes. Fox 2" If he hadn't been talking to ATC I pretty much assume that they would have shot him down.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:28
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I was watching it from my balcony just now. It's a fixture of summer time around here in that it can just appear on any random Saturday. You hear it before you see it, of course. They had one of the Dwarves from The Hobbit up for a ride in it earlier today, according to their Facebook page.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:33
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I know that logic and conspiracy theorists aren't on speaking terms, but like... why would that be something they lie about? There's nothing to cover up, the whole mission of those planes is to go shoot down rogue aircraft exactly like that. What exactly would they lose by stating that they shot the plane down? If anything you'd think it would show that they're willing to do it and hopefully discourage other people from attempting similar acts. Unless I'm misinterpreting, the Pierce County Sheriff is implying it was shot down.  https://twitter.com/PierceSheriff/status/1028147876508004352?s=20 I don't know if this will embed with the Android app.
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Aug 11, 2018 19:42
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Charles posted:Unless I'm misinterpreting, the Pierce County Sheriff is implying it was shot down. Is that a real twitter account?
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Aug 11, 2018 19:58
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hobbesmaster posted:Is that a real twitter account? Yes, it is. I checked
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Aug 11, 2018 20:35
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dupersaurus posted:Killing a citizen with military action without due process is — at a philosophical What is America sense — not a great look, and feeds into a lot of conspiratorial narratives about the big bad government hiding its misdeeds. Yeah, but it's not like this was a targeted drone strike, they were explicitly out there to shoot him down if needed. It shouldn't really matter if they actually had to shoot him down, it still would raise the same legal questions about that mission. And this would be like the absolute best case scenario for "shooting down an airliner" since there aren't even any passengers to worry about. It would be like for 9/11 if the government openly admitted "well yes, we had the buildings wired with demolition charges, and here's some test footage of the stealth cruise missile we were going to shoot at the Pentagon, but someone came along and flew some airliners into the buildings first." mlmp08 posted:Just like if you rammed through the gate of a military installation with a dump truck, the MPs are still going to shoot you dead without waiting for a court date. Exactly. They're not loading live missiles on the jets in order to arrest the guy.
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Aug 11, 2018 20:36
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To be fair, the F-15s the OR ANG has stationed at PDX are part of NORAD's 24-hour alert force. Those Alert planes are always armed and ready. The West Coast has F/A-18s at Lemoore, F-15s at PDX, and F-15s and F-22s at Elmendorf in Alaska.
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Aug 11, 2018 20:47
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Whoa -- because of the backlighting, the plane is only a silhouette in the video; so you can set your mind to see it as barrel rolling left or right, like that spinning dancer illusion. And because I was seeing it the wrong way on my first viewing I had a huge  brainbusting moment as the belly became the top, like the T1000 in Terminator 2.
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Aug 11, 2018 20:54
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If it came to shooting down the plane, would the interceptor pilots get a choice of how they did it? Does the ANG specify "authorized to fire one sidewinder" or are they just given clearance to do whatever it takes to stop it? Let's assume that the guy wasn't talking to ATC, so as far as anyone knew he might be planning to crash it into the space needle. I am thinking about this because I'm wondering (grimly) how many 20mm shells it would take to bring down a Q400
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Aug 11, 2018 21:00
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Sagebrush posted:If it came to shooting down the plane, would the interceptor pilots get a choice of how they did it? Does the ANG specify "authorized to fire one sidewinder" or are they just given clearance to do whatever it takes? If there are specific weapon rules in a renegade situation, it’s likely classified. Generally speaking, however, it’s up to the pilot to select the best weapon for the job on a single seater fighter.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:02
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Sagebrush posted:I am thinking about this because I'm wondering (grimly) how many 20mm shells it would take to bring down a Q400 1 in the wrong place.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:05
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Meaningful details from the press conference - dude was a Ground Service Agent, employed by Horizon since Feb 2015 - did not have a pilot license - had full security credentials to be where the plane was, no security violations were committed - still to be confirmed that he was the only one on board - the plane was at "Cargo 1" at the north part of the airport, no more flying duties for the rest of the day - AC was parked Nose East at Cargo 1, dude pushed the plane back himself with a tug - registration: N449QX - he did not get ramp/ground/tower clearances - did communicate on ground frequency, and all communications were on ground frequency vessbot fucked around with this message at 21:26 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 21:07
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fknlo posted:While true, I don't think he had any intention of doing an actual landing. The guy literally said he would try a barrel roll and if it worked out he would "probably go nose-down and call it a night"
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Aug 11, 2018 21:12
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Sagebrush posted:If it came to shooting down the plane, would the interceptor pilots get a choice of how they did it? Does the ANG specify "authorized to fire one sidewinder" or are they just given clearance to do whatever it takes to stop it? Let's assume that the guy wasn't talking to ATC, so as far as anyone knew he might be planning to crash it into the space needle. I heard from Phil Derner that a civilian shoot down needs POTUS permission. I'm not entirely sure if that's the case in every situation, but Phil has been a reliable source in the past and knows his poo poo so it seems right. Odds are the dude realized what he did and just binned it. If there was a shoot down you would see pictures of missile trails by now E:^^^^ also that
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Aug 11, 2018 21:15
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I’d be shocked if there weren’t standing orders regarding the situation in which you can shoot down an airliner.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:31
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hobbesmaster posted:I’d be shocked if there weren’t standing orders regarding the situation in which you can shoot down an airliner. Same. I'm also of the opinion that if they'd shot the plane down that we'd have absolutely heard about it from the government because this was pretty much the best case scenario for doing it and showing that we'll absolutely shoot down an airliner over the US if necessary.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:38
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The big ethical dilemma in shootdowns usually centers around the fact that they are filled with innocent passengers. It's just the weird mystical impact airplanes have which might cause this one suicidal guy to get shootdown conspiracies, but when cops gun down many airliner-loads of mentally ill people on the ground it barely raises an eyebrow.
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Aug 11, 2018 22:22
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fknlo posted:Same. certainly the trumpster would have immediately tweeted about it
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Aug 11, 2018 22:44
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mlmp08 posted:Just like if you rammed through the gate of a military installation with a dump truck, the MPs are still going to shoot you dead without waiting for a court date. Right or wrong, the government has decided "due process" doesn't mean time in court in extreme circumstances.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:09
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Sagebrush posted:certainly the trumpster would have immediately tweeted about it I'll be zero percent surprised when we find out that he gave the order to shoot it down but it ended up not happening because they were talking to him the whole time.
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Aug 11, 2018 23:57
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fknlo posted:I'll be zero percent surprised when we find out that he gave the order to shoot it down but it ended up not happening because they were talking to him the whole time. He'll tweet something that makes it sound ambiguous, then ~Q~ will doctor up something that's sufficiently blurry that his ~followers~ will eat up like a free sample at Costco. "Very sad what Happened in Seattle. We Must do what we Have to do to Keep America Safe" or some bullshit.
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Aug 12, 2018 00:07
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Nah if he had we'd of immediately gotten a tweet along the lines of 'man stole plane (sick) but our great air force shot him down (IT WAS ME). keeping you safe from your favorite president'
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Aug 12, 2018 00:46
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If he gave the order he'd have tweeted before they did it
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Aug 12, 2018 00:55
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BIG HEADLINE posted:He'll tweet something that makes it sound ambiguous, then ~Q~ will doctor up something that's sufficiently blurry that his ~followers~ will eat up like a free sample at Costco. I'm really indebted to SA for showing me a group of Trump followers who seem hell-bent on giving themselves schizophrenia rather than admit they got conned by a conman
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Aug 12, 2018 00:59
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I mean as a practical matter if this was the policy on 9/11 wouldn’t dubya have been too busy reading my pet goat to give the go ahead in time? Interesting tidbit - they eventually managed to scramble some F-16s for the last flight on 9/11 but the F-16s were unarmed.
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Aug 12, 2018 01:00
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BIG HEADLINE posted:He'll tweet something that makes it sound ambiguous, then ~Q~ will doctor up something that's sufficiently blurry that his ~followers~ will eat up like a free sample at Costco. Forgot to add the generalized dig at some imagined adversary. "Very sad what Happened in Seattle. We Must do what we Have to do to Keep America Safe. Guaranteed more deaths if this happened in China!!!"
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Aug 12, 2018 01:20
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Minnesota Mixup posted:Nah if he had we'd of immediately gotten a tweet along the lines of 'man stole plane (sick) but our great air force shot him down (IT WAS ME). keeping you safe from your favorite president' Brian Williams will soon report that he was aboard the plane.
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Aug 12, 2018 01:48
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Nebakenezzer posted:I'm really indebted to SA for showing me a group of Trump followers who seem hell-bent on giving themselves schizophrenia rather than admit they got conned by a conman I'm indebted to the Andrew Dice Clay thread for giving me EYYYYY posted:Roses are red
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Aug 12, 2018 01:53
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