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Berke Negri posted:i was just kidding obama didn't rig the dnc race thankfully i didn't speculate on whether he did or didn't either
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Aug 12, 2018 21:36
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Condiv posted:not really. the texts show that her son was upset, and that they were going through the process of a breakup. we don't have anything yet that substantiates physical or emotional abuse yet, and these are supposed to be texts that back up the son's claims that keith physically and emotionally abused her. The thing about "why hasn't she released them to a third party" is that there's no indication that she intended for this to ever go public. Like many other abuse victims, she was keeping it secret. The only reason it came out is because someone else accidentally stumbled onto the evidence and decided to go public with it without asking her.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:36
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Condiv posted:i don't think that obama knew or that he rigged the race for perez to avoid keith cause of this issue i have vast and concrete evidence that you thought Barack Hussein Obama rigged the election to prevent Keith Ellison from gaining office because of a fear that his long reign of terror would float to the surface.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:37
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steinrokkan posted:The guy we were hoping would be part of our presidential ticket is not that important, said the fox to the grape I’ve never heard of anyone prognosticating Ellison as part of a ticket anytime soon, but I only get information from mainstream/establishment media, not the online DSA/chapo/etc sphere. My internet access is quite limited so I get very little of that stuff since it isn’t available offline.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:41
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Craptacular! posted:I’ve never heard of anyone prognosticating Ellison as part of a ticket anytime soon, but I only get information from mainstream/establishment media, not the online DSA/chapo/etc sphere. My internet access is quite limited so I get very little of that stuff since it isn’t available offline. Yeah, no Bernie / Keith voices, none at all
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Aug 12, 2018 21:42
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steinrokkan posted:i have vast and concrete evidence that you thought Barack Hussein Obama rigged the election to prevent Keith Ellison from gaining office because of a fear that his long reign of terror would float to the surface. cool. you'll have to excuse me, i'm not in a very jokey mood. i like keith ellison quite a lot and i'm very sad to hear that he may have been abusive towards his ex. Main Paineframe posted:The thing about "why hasn't she released them to a third party" is that there's no indication that she intended for this to ever go public. Like many other abuse victims, she was keeping it secret. The only reason it came out is because someone else accidentally stumbled onto the evidence and decided to go public with it without asking her. hmm i hope the truth of this situation becomes clearer soon
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Aug 12, 2018 21:45
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, no Bernie / Keith voices, none at all well, i kinda gave up on that when he ran for AG. but i'm not sure how i and a few other leftists add up to keith ellison being important
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Aug 12, 2018 21:47
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post the video
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Aug 12, 2018 21:47
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How does "someone else stumble" upon private texts and video? The texts messages aren't damning to me. Everyone has had a lovely/dramatic break up. If the video is seemed legit by a third party I'll change my tune but dramatic ex texts from scorned white women makes me naturally cautious idk it's a really tough situation
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Aug 12, 2018 21:50
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I can’t figure out what is going on. Can somebody post the actual allegation? E:^^ apparently none of the texts sent to MPR contain any evidence of abuse.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:50
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Condiv posted:well, i kinda gave up on that when he ran for AG. but i'm not sure how i and a few other leftists add up to keith ellison being important If the challenger of Tom Perez was absolutely unimportant and there are only several lone leftists supporting an alternative to him, I guess the centralist faction really does represent America as a whole
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Aug 12, 2018 21:50
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Koalas March posted:How does "someone else stumble" upon private texts and video? The texts messages aren't damning to me. Everyone has had a lovely/dramatic break up. Quite frankly, yes, this rush to indict your most powerful ally (or one of such) at the first sign of trouble is loving imbecillic to say the least. Especially since literally nobody can actually formulate why they are condemning Keith beyond some vague statements.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:52
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Craptacular! posted:I’ve never heard of anyone prognosticating Ellison as part of a ticket anytime soon, but I only get information from mainstream/establishment media, not the online DSA/chapo/etc sphere. My internet access is quite limited so I get very little of that stuff since it isn’t available offline. I thought Ellison was a great candidate for 2020, we'll see what happens now.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:52
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He was always a weak candidate for 2020.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:53
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Koalas March posted:How does "someone else stumble" upon private texts and video? The texts messages aren't damning to me. Everyone has had a lovely/dramatic break up. Apparently the person who stumbled upon that stuff was her son, which seems entirely plausible to me. Still, the video in question seems to be the crux of the matter, yes.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:56
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Koalas March posted:How does "someone else stumble" upon private texts and video? The texts messages aren't damning to me. Everyone has had a lovely/dramatic break up. that seemed odd to me too, but i dunno... steinrokkan posted:If the challenger of Tom Perez was absolutely unimportant and there are only several lone leftists supporting an alternative to him, I guess the centralist faction really does represent America as a whole what are you even saying with this steinrokkan?
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Aug 12, 2018 21:58
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I mean I can kind of understand not wanting to post a video of yourself/your mother being abused for the public. I also don’t see why we should assume a lack of credibility for accusers of men who broadly align with us.
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Aug 12, 2018 21:58
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steinrokkan posted:Quite frankly, yes, this rush to indict your most powerful ally (or one of such) at the first sign of trouble is loving imbecillic to say the least. Especially since literally nobody can actually formulate why they are condemning Keith beyond some vague statements. i wouldn't claim keith is our most powerful ally. I'd say that'd be sanders at the moment. That's why I wanted keith as his veep, to build keith's profile.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:00
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Koalas March posted:How does "someone else stumble" upon private texts and video? The texts messages aren't damning to me. Everyone has had a lovely/dramatic break up. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST) (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 12, 2018 22:03
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Condiv posted:what are you even saying with this steinrokkan? That your scrambling to erase Keith from historical record is as pathetic as it is transparent.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:04
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Sneakster posted:A jailhouse Muslim roughing up a dumpy white single mother he's dating isn't exactly hard to believe though. What in the world is wrong with you dude?
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Aug 12, 2018 22:04
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Sneakster posted:Based off their tweets, its clear everyone involved has the thought process of high-schoolers, so its pretty easy to imagine how dumb dramatic gossip material is stumbled upon. A jailhouse Muslim roughing up a dumpy white single mother he's dating isn't exactly hard to believe though. yikes
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Aug 12, 2018 22:05
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Ellison has flat out denied the video exists, so it seems pretty open-and-shut dependent on it existing and portraying what it is supposed to be. It’s the devil of identity; Ellison’s as a member of a minority who have had sexual licentiousness and sexual violence painted as part and parcel of their souls, and his ex as a woman, who have been gaslit throughout history about their experiences of domestic and sexual violence, and as a white woman, who sits at the nexus of both of those traditions being weaponized as a means of upholding a violent racial caste system that persists to this day in our country. I’m amazed that posters here feel they have the moral clarity to have divined what is or isn’t true and what should happen based on what is out there right now. I have no idea what to do with this information besides wait and see.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:05
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Sneakster posted:A jailhouse Muslim roughing up a dumpy white single mother he's dating isn't exactly hard to believe though. lol, you see this is what happens when you fold immediately
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Aug 12, 2018 22:06
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Sneakster posted:Based off their tweets, its clear everyone involved has the thought process of high-schoolers, so its pretty easy to imagine how dumb dramatic gossip material is stumbled upon. A jailhouse Muslim roughing up a dumpy white single mother he's dating isn't exactly hard to believe though. What the gently caress
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Aug 12, 2018 22:06
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Lightning Knight posted:I mean I can kind of understand not wanting to post a video of yourself/your mother being abused for the public. White women and their family members have a long history of making poo poo up wholesale or blowing minor poo poo up in order to lynch or abuse black men. Remember all the white women calling the cops on people sitting in a cafe, grilling or selling water? That's the minor version of that. Again, remember Emmit Till. I agree that we should generally believe victims. Men are trash and black men aren't excluded from that. Unfortunately there's also hundreds of years of racial history to unpack as well. Like I said, it's a really difficult situation.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:07
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Phone posted:it doesn't matter. I don't know how to honestly respond to this without getting probated, so I'll just say that I wish Helldump was still a thing, for you in particular. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 12, 2018 22:07
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selec posted:Ellison has flat out denied the video exists, so it seems pretty open-and-shut dependent on it existing and portraying what it is supposed to be. The MPR article where they mention they found no evidence of abuse in the tweets they reviewed (which were much more extensive than the ones Karen Monahan posted publically) makes it a lot muddier than I initially thought.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:08
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Koalas March posted:White women and their family members have a long history of making poo poo up wholesale or blowing minor poo poo up in order to lynch or abuse black men. I understand this, but she’s also not accusing some guy. She’s accusing a former congressman. The power differential heavily favors him in this scenario. I think “I will wait until the video comes out” is a valid stance but I see no reason to not at least extend to her “it seems reasonably plausible and there needs to be an inquiry.”
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Aug 12, 2018 22:09
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Sneakster posted:Based off their tweets, its clear everyone involved has the thought process of high-schoolers, so its pretty easy to imagine how dumb dramatic gossip material is stumbled upon. A jailhouse Muslim roughing up a dumpy white single mother he's dating isn't exactly hard to believe though. 
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Aug 12, 2018 22:09
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Yeah, based on what I've read there was no evidence of animosity between KE and his GF in their communications at the time the incident was supposed to happen.Lightning Knight posted:I understand this, but she’s also not accusing some guy. She’s accusing a former congressman. The power differential heavily favors him in this scenario. Which is a different stance than the rabid "Keith is a literal monster now and needs to be expunged from society" people have been promoting here.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:10
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In general that'll teach me to think that I'm gonna escape the "well what do you expect, he's a Muslim" takes by not looking at twitter.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:11
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, based on what I've read there was no evidence of animosity between KE and his GF in their communications at the time the incident was supposed to happen. The average abused spouse works hard to convince themselves that it’s all their fault and he really loves me, I’m sure. So this doesn’t necessarily mean anything. I think selec’s take is the most reasonable here and we should just wait and see.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:11
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Koalas March posted:White women and their family members have a long history of making poo poo up wholesale or blowing minor poo poo up in order to lynch or abuse black men. That and everyone running with this is a Qultist or a shitlib.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:13
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steinrokkan posted:That your scrambling to erase Keith from historical record is as pathetic as it is transparent. i'm not trying to erase him from historical record or anything steinrokkan. but i'm not gonna blow up his influence in the left either to try to claim that these allegations are a conspiracy to take down or kneecap the left either
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Aug 12, 2018 22:15
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steinrokkan posted:Which is a different stance than the rabid "Keith is a literal monster now and needs to be expunged from society" people have been promoting here. That’s fair. My initial reaction was before people started pointing out that there may be issues, but I stand by the notion that we should believe her until at least such a time as the status of the video is determined, she refuses to provide it, etc. I think it’s credible, though unproven.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:16
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Lightning Knight posted:I think “I will wait until the video comes out” is a valid stance but I see no reason to not at least extend to her “it seems reasonably plausible and there needs to be an inquiry.” This is exactly where I stand tbh. The bottom line is she says there's a video and he wholesale denied it exists so a third party verification would really settle it tbh Also the power differential is laughable. We had a black president who had a mustard scandal. No matter how far you climb as a black person, you're still black and white supremacy can still effect you. See also Oprah being denied into a couture store because they thought she wouldn't afford it. Iirc the same thing happened to Nelly(??) When he tried to buy a belt. You work twice as hard to get half etc.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:16
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King of Solomon posted:The MPR article where they mention they found no evidence of abuse in the tweets they reviewed (which were much more extensive than the ones Karen Monahan posted publically) makes it a lot muddier than I initially thought. yeah, seeing that moved me back from thinking it was possible keith did it into stuck not sure who to believe in this.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:17
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steinrokkan posted:Yeah, based on what I've read there was no evidence of animosity between KE and his GF in their communications at the time the incident was supposed to happen. I do think that it is important to accept that a persons testimony is evidence, but only one form of it. It’s also hard to wrestle with because of pattern recognition: The first pattern we need to recognize is that the vast majority of accusations like these, especially the high profile ones that we attach to the MeToo moment, are long-overdue comeuppance for monsters, men that are unquestionably guilty of some really, really lovely things, and that most people have internalized the accusation as being a reliable guide to a dude being genuinely monstrous or lovely. The other pattern is that we have seen with many accusations a tendency either from the accused or their defenders (Franken is a great example of this) claiming that this is a purely political method of fatally undermining an important member of the in-group. In reality, we have seen only one example of what I would consider to be a real example of this, taking advantage of the moment to try and shiv a political foe, and it was the attempt to paint Matt Taibbi as a serial rapist, and was carried out ostensibly by other people on the left. That it was rebutted so thoroughly didn’t mean it didn’t probably hurt his career. But it does exemplify the worst accusation the right (and to a much lesser degree the left) makes about these kinds of accusations, that they are purely political hack jobs. The fact that the only example that genuinely validated that claim was carried out on a leftist by people only to their right by a matter of slight degree is wholly lost in the dialogue, such as any exists. All this is to say I don’t think it’s reasonable to stake out a presumption of anything right now.
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Aug 12, 2018 22:23
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quote:Kim Ellison, who is Keith Ellison's ex-wife, came to the congressman's defense Sunday in an statement that was emailed to reporters. this makes me more hopeful for keith. that his ex is willing to vouch for him makes me less trusting of the allegations
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Aug 12, 2018 22:29
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