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Lightning Knight posted:What in the world is wrong with you dude? Oh Snapple! posted:In general that'll teach me to think that I'm gonna escape the "well what do you expect, he's a Muslim" takes by not looking at twitter. Ytlaya posted:While this is a good point, one could argue that being a prominent politician sorta tips the scales a bit in favor of the woman in this situation. I agree that it isn't nearly as clear as your "typical" situation like this, though. The Kingfish posted:My take is that he will probably be fine, politically. Ytlaya posted:I mean, ideally the people opposed to MeToo have already expressed as such (through opposing Franken resigning, etc), and those who aren't won't turn against the idea just because one of the situations existed where the accuser was shown to be lying (if that ends up being the case). The whole logic to begin with in these situations is "believe the accuser unless there's some specific evidence for why we shouldn't," and if such evidence hypothetically existed in this case it wouldn't contradict that reasoning. Pththya-lyi posted:maybe (and I'm just saying maybe) the kid is making something up to back up his mom, or if there is a vid she's holding it back for some reason. Tough to evaluate this right now.
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Aug 13, 2018 06:34
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Sneakster posted:Oh, just reminiscing. Always remember to appreciate the moments of life with bits of giggles and good cheer. 
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Aug 13, 2018 06:38
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Sneakster posted:That feeling when you blindly support mob justice in lieu of any due process in a moral panic. That isn't how things work. No one is arguing that people like this go to prison unless actual proof is provided, but proof isn't needed in order to think "it's more likely than not this person did this thing" and treat them accordingly. Absent some reason to think a victim is lying, it makes sense to default to assuming they're speaking the truth when it comes to interpersonal relationships; only the law needs to care about whether something has proof (because there's a higher cost to it being wrong than there, say, a politician having their career ended).
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Aug 13, 2018 06:44
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Its impressive how you said its not what I said, and then proceeded to make it exactly what I said.Ytlaya posted:Absent some reason to think a victim is lying, it makes sense to default to assuming they're speaking the truth when it comes to interpersonal relationships; only the law needs to care about whether something has proof (because there's a higher cost to it being wrong than there, say, a politician having their career ended). Yeah, man. SPLC can't be trusted, totally biased organization.
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Aug 13, 2018 07:01
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Grouchio posted:Can somebody run down with me why Tom Perez (DNC Chair) thought it would be a good idea to freeze oil corp donations to candidates 2 months ago....and rescind that freeze today? Did he ever have a pro-renewable agenda? Does he WANT humanity to die? The other part of this people aren't talking about, is that the Texas Democratic Party's DNC member who is in the oil industry and what do you know, he says the original vote actually never happened. So its clear that the squeeze was put on from unions and democratic pro-OG donors to undo the vote.
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Aug 13, 2018 09:52
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The Kingfish posted:https://twitter.com/WaywardWinifred/status/1028846293555339264?s=19 any non-fox news source on this?
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Aug 13, 2018 11:37
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When you people supported a hysterical mob on a campaign to purge sexual immorality to defend the honor of our women with the assumption it would be politically expedient, you swore an oath to suspend critical thinking, restraint, and to accept the most wild allegations as damning fact at face value. Its not exactly 'believing the victim' to require loving video of the incident. Oh dear. Its worse than I feared. Diabolical rightwing sorcery has engineered a biodisaster weaving conservative lizard-brain genes into our blood. It's already begun to change the way that we heal. Condiv posted:any non-fox news source on this? (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 13, 2018 13:55
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Sneakster posted:Its impressive how you said its not what I said, and then proceeded to make it exactly what I said. On the other hand, things like this don't often have a lot of hard evidence, and there's so much of a systematic and institutional bias against the female victim that they often don't even bother to report it for fear that they'll face more consequences than their attacker does. And let's be clear here: a rich or powerful or connected person losing their job is hardly "repercussions on par with a criminal conviction".
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Aug 13, 2018 14:08
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The James Gunn fiasco, and follow-up attempts on Dan Harmon, are recent examples of the fascist right blatantly attempting, successfully in at least one case, to use spurious allegations of abuse and sexual indiscretion and the resulting liberal overreaction to harm critics of Trump. Both of those are a bit different from allegations of abuse and assault with supposed video, but just saying it's definitely within their wheelhouse.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:11
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I like how "Letting victims of sexual assault speak up without shaming or blaming them, and telling people not sexually assault and rape women" is "defending their honor" and not, you know, saying rape and sexual assault is bad.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:16
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Condiv posted:any non-fox news source on this? It’s local news and the only part I read was the statement itself. No reason not to trust it.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:29
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Ghost Leviathan posted:The James Gunn fiasco, and follow-up attempts on Dan Harmon, are recent examples of the fascist right blatantly attempting, successfully in at least one case, to use spurious allegations of abuse and sexual indiscretion and the resulting liberal overreaction to harm critics of Trump. Both of those are a bit different from allegations of abuse and assault with supposed video, but just saying it's definitely within their wheelhouse. Neither of those had anything to do with sexual assaults or abuse, though - they were both about distasteful twitter jokes. They were both instances of exploiting corporations' fear of controversy to push people out by making a fuss, and had precisely fuckall to do with MeToo.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:33
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Main Paineframe posted:Neither of those had anything to do with sexual assaults or abuse, though - they were both about distasteful twitter jokes. They were both instances of exploiting corporations' fear of controversy to push people out by making a fuss, and had precisely fuckall to do with MeToo. Fair enough. Just figuring that the right is going to jump on anything that they think will give them an opportunity to discredit their enemies, especially open leftists and/or critics of Trump, and take advantage of public hysteria and twitter mobs to do so. They've had years of practice at this.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:44
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Main Paineframe posted:On the other hand, things like this don't often have a lot of hard evidence, and there's so much of a systematic and institutional bias against the female victim that they often don't even bother to report it for fear that they'll face more consequences than their attacker does. And let's be clear here: a rich or powerful or connected person losing their job is hardly "repercussions on par with a criminal conviction". Ghost Leviathan posted:The James Gunn fiasco, and follow-up attempts on Dan Harmon, are recent examples of the fascist right blatantly attempting, successfully in at least one case, to use spurious allegations of abuse and sexual indiscretion and the resulting liberal overreaction to harm critics of Trump. Both of those are a bit different from allegations of abuse and assault with supposed video, but just saying it's definitely within their wheelhouse. The Kingfish posted:It’s local news and the only part I read was the statement itself. No reason not to trust it. Koalas March posted:I like how "Letting victims of sexual assault speak up without shaming or blaming them, and telling people not sexually assault and rape women" is "defending their honor" and not, you know, saying rape and sexual assault is bad. Koalas March posted:White women and their family members have a long history of making poo poo up wholesale or blowing minor poo poo up in order to lynch or abuse black men. Ghost Leviathan posted:Fair enough. Just figuring that the right is going to jump on anything that they think will give them an opportunity to discredit their enemies, especially open leftists and/or critics of Trump, and take advantage of public hysteria and twitter mobs to do so. They've had years of practice at this. Its almost like salacious accusations lead themselves to gossip that's either non-criminal and not public business, or is criminal, and shouldn't be left to a semi-anonymous decentralized hysterical mob.
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Aug 13, 2018 14:59
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Sneakster posted:Hmm. Both of her statements are true.
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Aug 13, 2018 15:11
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Fair enough. Just figuring that the right is going to jump on anything that they think will give them an opportunity to discredit their enemies, especially open leftists and/or critics of Trump, and take advantage of public hysteria and twitter mobs to do so. They've had years of practice at this. The right can jump on anything they want, but if they were interested in flat-out making poo poo up then they would have done it by now. After all, the Monica Lewinsky scandal was over two decades ago, and many of the same arguments you're making now were made back then to defend Bill Clinton. In any case, the straight-up smear jobs are only being targeted against people in private industry, because they know that private companies don't give a gently caress about the actual allegations - they just hate bad press and will immediately throw anyone under the bus in response to any level of controversy even if it's obvious bullshit. Remember when Facebook fired its entire fact-checking team because conservatives alleged that it was biased against them? It's the same kind of thing. Sneakster posted:To be fair, I meant more along the lines of people who aren't celebrities since a campaign of sordid accusations in the age of the internet practically carries the ramifications of a legal conviction. No, it absolutely doesn't. Stop saying this.
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Aug 13, 2018 15:26
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Keith should drop out of the AG race and resign from the DNC.
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Aug 13, 2018 18:35
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The Little Kielbasa posted:Keith should drop out of the AG race and resign from the DNC. If it's true.
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Aug 13, 2018 18:51
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Condiv posted:any non-fox news source on this? it quotes a named person on the record and local fox stations generally don't have anything to do with the Fox News cable station
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Aug 13, 2018 19:24
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Telling friends about it at the time is a strong signal of veracity, tape or no. https://twitter.com/KFILE/status/1029072542894448640?s=20
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Aug 13, 2018 19:43
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Sneakster posted:When you people supported a hysterical mob on a campaign to purge sexual immorality to defend the honor of our women with the assumption it would be politically expedient, you swore an oath to suspend critical thinking, restraint, and to accept the most wild allegations as damning fact at face value. Its not exactly 'believing the victim' to require loving video of the incident. i haven't even read it yet, but in general i don't trust fox news and would like a secondary source
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Aug 13, 2018 19:45
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It’s not Fox News.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:50
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The Kingfish posted:It’s not Fox News. yeah i know now. i didn't though when i asked if there was another source and people jumped on me trying to say i was claiming it was fake news.
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Aug 13, 2018 19:53
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https://twitter.com/ddale8/status/1029073817971449857 “Misplaced”. Whoops.
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Aug 13, 2018 20:04
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if she told friends about the alleged incident of physical abuse contemporaneously, and texted Ellison about the video, that definitely bolsters her case at the very least
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Aug 13, 2018 20:07
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Trabisnikof posted:Telling friends about it at the time is a strong signal of veracity, tape or no. Yeah, that's the sort of thing that, absent some specific reason to think otherwise*, I consider sufficient evidence of a claim like this. * like evidence that there was some attempt at coordinating accounts, or that the person has a history of similar accusations, etc
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Aug 13, 2018 20:45
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I think if you're going to take that into account, you should also weight more heavily his ex-wife's statement.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:13
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Trabisnikof posted:Telling friends about it at the time is a strong signal of veracity, tape or no. Not really. If that were the only thing that happened, sure. But if she's also told people about a physical piece of evidence, which hasn't materialized, then it does not sound credible.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:13
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Pedro De Heredia posted:Not really. So you're saying that if, assuming for a second that she had honestly lost the tape, you'd be more likely to believe her if she had lied and said she never had the tape in the first place? edit: tape not time Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 21:21 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 21:16
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Trabisnikof posted:So you're saying that if, assuming for a second that she had honestly lost the time, you'd be more likely to believe her if she had lied and said she never had the tape in the first place? Yes.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:17
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I think if you're going to take that into account, you should also weight more heavily his ex-wife's statement. I don't see what that has to do with what you're responding to. It's a completely different thing.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:21
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Main Paineframe posted:The right can jump on anything they want, but if they were interested in flat-out making poo poo up then they would have done it by now. Where were you during Obama?
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Aug 13, 2018 21:21
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drilldo squirt posted:Where were you during Obama? What, do you think the Anthony Weiner sex pest stuff was a right-wing hit job or something?
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Aug 13, 2018 21:26
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Pedro De Heredia posted:But if she's also told people about a physical piece of evidence, which hasn't materialized, then it does not sound credible. Ytlaya posted:Yeah, that's the sort of thing that, absent some specific reason to think otherwise*, I consider sufficient evidence of a claim like this. Ytlaya posted:...Absent some reason to think a victim is lying, it makes sense to default to assuming they're speaking the truth when it comes to interpersonal relationships... Quality work, detectives. Looks like this isn't Keith Ellison's first rodeo though. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 13, 2018 21:59
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Main Paineframe posted:What, do you think the Anthony Weiner sex pest stuff was a right-wing hit job or something? No?
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Aug 13, 2018 22:00
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You might have to think awhile since it was at least two years ago and it's white people making poo poo up to justify why they hated a black guy so it might have gone into the memory hole all that garbage goes in.
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Aug 13, 2018 22:02
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Just to note, that supposed newspaper linked appears to be at best 1 person's email newsletter and I can't find any other issues of it, the website is dead, and the person who uploaded it to scribed is filled with other insane conspiracy documents like https://www.scribd.com/document/77489390/FCC-UN-Internet-Takeover-2012 Also the subtitle of that scribbed page is "CAIR | HAMAS" Obviously if Amy L Alexander verifies this story in any way shape or form that'd change things. edit: that "newspaper" is credited to the Republican representative's son, based on the PO box of the publisher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Emmer Trabisnikof fucked around with this message at 22:21 on Aug 13, 2018 |
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Aug 13, 2018 22:15
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Sneakster posted:Quality work, detectives. quote:Find out how despicable Keith Ellison is just in case you didn't already know. He abused this woman, must be his religion of peace. are you serious? can you get out of here islamophobe? you're not really adding anything at all to the discussion
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Aug 13, 2018 22:16
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MSDOS KAPITAL posted:I think if you're going to take that into account, you should also weight more heavily his ex-wife's statement. why on earth would we? "He didn't abuse me" from a third party rando means literally nothing. Abusive people don't always abuse everyone.
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Aug 13, 2018 22:21
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Sneakster's link posted:SHOCKING SENATORIAL VOTES ”Never argue with an idiot; they’ll drag you down to theirlevel and beat you with experience.” ~ anonymous whoa this is definitely a trustworthy source sneakster  edit: btw that comma was in the newsletter. maybe these idiots should learn their language before they advocate for making it the official language of the US
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Aug 13, 2018 22:23
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