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Ikaruga is flawed because its scoring system sucks and is just rote memorisation.
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Aug 10, 2018 07:08
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By that definition, all games are flawed games because no game is objectively perfect. I prefer a flaw to mean some sort of tragic dealbreaker as someone else pointed out.
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Aug 10, 2018 09:12
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A flawed gem is just a game with significant (number of) ups and downs, and depending on your preferences the drawbacks outweigh the good aspects of it or they don't. It just means it can be a divisive game, not that it has to be "deeply flawed" with dealbreaker fuckups that ruin the whole experience (but depending on your viewpoint it can). Obviously it has to be significant, since every game has good and less good qualities on a semantic level. I've 100% the Witcher 3 and it's easily one of my favorite game of all times, but man are there things in it that annoyed me the entire 200 hours of playtime that could''ve been done so much better. Then there's games like Alpha Protocol that are highly praised where the clunkier aspects of it made me bounce off pretty early. It happens.
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Aug 10, 2018 11:08
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I simply feel Nier A is flawed because I can imagine a more enjoyable combat system but its no slant. I adore Bayonetta 1 but I still think the flying and biking kennels levels are tedious and go on to long. A flaw is but a blemish. Take breath of the wild, a universally loved game that just didn't click with me. Could I pick out a specific flaw? Not really but I just didn't enjoy the time I spent with the game. Then on the other side of the fence you have something like Rocket League which I'd consider a flawless game because there's nothing I can personally think of that would improve it. Horses for courses and all that
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Aug 10, 2018 13:10
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I think Smash melee is the least flawed game. It actually makes no sense how good that game is. Enumerating N:A's flaws is more of something I do as a joke because none of them really matter to me. They're just hypothetical reasons someone might not like the game. I also like doing it because it makes me feel more worldly and sophisticated than for example the sort of people who cry out in rage whenever Zelda 12 is criticized. No Wave fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 16:07
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RoadCrewWorker posted:Then there's games like Alpha Protocol that are highly praised where the clunkier aspects of it made me bounce off pretty early. It happens. I wouldn’t call AP “highly praised.”
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Aug 10, 2018 18:00
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I evade all that insanity by only liking terrible games, like NieR Automata.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:19
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Hikaki posted:By that definition, all games are flawed games because no game is objectively perfect. I prefer a flaw to mean some sort of tragic dealbreaker as someone else pointed out. I mean you are welcome to your preferences, but that's not what "flaw" means in common usage anywhere I've ever seen. Where did this idea that flawed = ruined come from? Is there some review site that uses it this way or are we just looking at a new tendril of our cultural preference for extremes?
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Aug 10, 2018 18:39
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Xenogears is one of the best games ever IMO but I dare say it had flaws.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:44
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Look Sir Droids posted:I wouldn’t call AP “highly praised.”  v Of course it's also an Obsidian game so gameplay polish and QA testing were a bit (or a lot) further down on their list of priorities.I'm sure there's more than a few people that love what Automata does on paper or the parts players like me rave about but can't make it through some uniquely Yoko Taro[tm]-ish design choices
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Aug 10, 2018 18:47
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I think the word flawed came into game parlance because every other byline written by loser game critics is "a flawed masterpiece"
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Aug 10, 2018 18:49
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Flawed typically implies that something is ruined or invalidated but it has subordinate definitions that allow for it to mean "possessing any imperfection" We live in a world of Gotta Get Those Clicks and Shares so we're growing accustomed to seeing very severe synonyms. I mean which video are you gonna watch 1. Nier has strengths and weaknesses 2. Nier is a flawed gem This carries over into our speech so eventually things that are good will "own much bigly" and things that are bad will be "kill yourselfable terribad"
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Aug 10, 2018 18:53
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Is there a video game version of armond white? Cant really stand any other reviewer's prose these days.
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Aug 10, 2018 18:57
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No Wave posted:I think the word flawed came into game parlance because every other byline written by loser game critics is "a flawed masterpiece" Ding ding ding, give this man an UpBacon or whatever
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Aug 10, 2018 18:58
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No, calling something a flawed gem articulates more of an opinion than saying something has strengths and weaknesses. It's not a meaningless distinction.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:07
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Big strengths, big weaknesses
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Aug 10, 2018 20:10
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Big strengths, forgivable weaknesses.
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Aug 10, 2018 20:13
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It implies that the game will get a rating somewhere between 5.5 and 10.
No Wave fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 10, 2018 |
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Aug 10, 2018 20:27
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Look Sir Droids posted:Big strengths, forgivable weaknesses. No Wave posted:somewhere between 5.5 and 10. Guys jeez quit quoting my Grindr profile
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Aug 10, 2018 20:39
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I can live with the fact that the only real flaw of Automata is that the gameplay is just as responsive as the best action games out there but the mechanics lack depth. It's such a rare treat to play a JRPG that really speaks to you. Because I like these games aesthetically but the plot stuff makes me want to turn my brain off.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:18
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WaltherFeng posted:I can live with the fact that the only real flaw of Automata is that the gameplay is just as responsive as the best action games out there but the mechanics lack depth. It's not even that the mechanics lack depth. You look at combo videos, people have figured out all kinds of amazing mechanical interaction. It's just the game never forces you to engage with it, and the leveling system makes it less relevant to the regular play.
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Aug 11, 2018 06:44
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WaltherFeng posted:I can live with the fact that the only real flaw of Automata is that the gameplay is just as responsive as the best action games out there but the mechanics lack depth. What JRPGs do you play? Just curious since, while I think Taro has done great and unique things, I have loved JRPGs forever and I don't think he is alone in writing interesting and emotional stories. Granted, my favorites like Xenogears and Xenosaga, are kinda big time love them or hate them. I would still love to see a collaboration between Taro and Tersuya Takahashi(the main Xeno writer and visionary).
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Aug 11, 2018 06:45
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I think one thing the guy who makes Xenogears etc. really needed was to learn how to edit a story down and reach an actual ending. Xenoblade was great in part because it was a self-contained story instead of this small part of a planned series that never gets finished properly. Taro definitely doesn't have that problem- his plots can meander and parts of the game can get tedious, but one thing Drakengard, Neir and Neir A have in common is that the final ending is (one or another) a really fantastic way to wrap up the story. Well, maybe just bizarre for Drakengard.
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Aug 11, 2018 07:06
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Its been a while but besides replaying FF I tried playing Xillia but I came to conclusion I've probably grown out of typical fantasy rpgs. When I occasionally boot up Automata I'm immediately drawn into the world and the characters. 9S is such a likeable and sympathetic person. Too bad Xenosaga isnt available in EU. It sounds interesting. WaltherFeng fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Aug 11, 2018 |
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Aug 11, 2018 07:23
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Yoko Taro writes the endings first, then writes backwards - that's why his endings never seem half-assed.
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Aug 11, 2018 08:11
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One interesting thing about the Nier stories is the focus on themes. I think that's why you can have this utterly complicated JRPG plot that can ultimately be emotionally moving. For example, Nier and the Shadowlord being the "same" person takes a lot of explanation to get to, but once you're there, the message of perspective that it boils down to is very simple. Same with the story of 2B and 9S: there's a lot of crap about multiple lives and executioners but it boils down to the human need for meaningful relationships. Contrast that with the story of Xenogears/Xenosaga which is all about grand politics. The focus there is really on the intrigue of the story itself and not what it represents. For example, a similar story element from Xenogears is Fei and Elly revealed to have loved and lost each other in past lives. Yes it's sad, but the story itself and how it explains some other story elements is the only interesting thing about it. I can't think of any other way to interpret it other than at face value, which is not a bad thing but not many games are doing the former.
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Aug 11, 2018 11:52
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Yeah, I think one of the things that stands out the most to me about Nier and Nier Automata is that the main characters essentially just want to live simple, authentic lives. But then insane labyrinthine machinations that were set in place from time immemorial lure them in and they can't escape. Like the core desires of most of the characters are so humble and pure, it makes the impossibility of their achieving them seem absurdist and cruel. Like 9S's character motivation is basically "wants to go on a date with a cool girl" but then 20 hours later he's waist-high in the corpses of clones of his girlfriend, has sautered her arm to himself, and is fighting an alternate universe version of her while he's slowly being infected with a computer virus and it's like... I guess this is what wanting to go on a date with someone looks like in a world where only eternal war and suffering exist.
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Aug 11, 2018 13:29
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Hikaki posted:One interesting thing about the Nier stories is the focus on themes. I think that's why you can have this utterly complicated JRPG plot that can ultimately be emotionally moving. For example, Nier and the Shadowlord being the "same" person takes a lot of explanation to get to, but once you're there, the message of perspective that it boils down to is very simple. Same with the story of 2B and 9S: there's a lot of crap about multiple lives and executioners but it boils down to the human need for meaningful relationships. A very interesting observation. NieR has a huge backstory but it really doesn't matter. As you said, getting across the message is the point. With the Xeno games, unraveling everything is part of the fun. They have themes too of course. Xenogears is built around Grief while Saga addresses Fear. As humans we all invariably are faced with both but as humans we come up with myriad ways to cope. That is what the games mainly address. Also, in spite of all the twists and turns, Xenogears at least is a very straight story about a heroic journey. XG is often slandered as a Evangelion ripoff but between valuing themes and ideas over plot details as well as turning expectations totally on their head, Eva is more similar to NieR.
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Aug 11, 2018 13:32
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So how does Brother Nier's relationships with Weiss, Kaine and Emil differ from Father Nier's? I always got the feeling Dad Nier and Kaine were close due to sorta similar age and temperament. But I would imagine the dynamics are different for the brother. Maybe he would be closer to Emil. But I dunno. Just figured somebody here played the Brother Nier game and I would like to hear about it.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:16
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I read that the Brother and Kainé had more romantic tension. But sometimes I got that vibe with the Father too.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:36
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NikkolasKing posted:So how does Brother Nier's relationships with Weiss, Kaine and Emil differ from Father Nier's? I always got the feeling Dad Nier and Kaine were close due to sorta similar age and temperament. But I would imagine the dynamics are different for the brother. Maybe he would be closer to Emil. I haven't played the brother one but all the side stories are written with him. Originally I found the father-daughter relationship more compelling, but the stories reveal that brother Nier had a much tougher time raising Yonah since they were both children when their parents died. At one point he had to regularly prostitute himself out to a rich dude in the beach city. Eventually learning how to fight shades was also a trial-by-fire. Dad Nier of course never has those issues. In the end they were more similar than I thought in that they are providers that are unable to provide. Bro Nier almost feels more like a father figure rather than a doting brother given their history. I know you didn't ask about the Yonah relationship but to me that was the biggest difference between dad and bro. Everyone else seemed pretty similar. Kaine and Emil are still both vaguely in love with him and Weiss is still a smartass.
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Aug 11, 2018 21:42
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Something possibly Nier Automata related, guaranteed to be disappointing and exclusive to Japan https://gematsu.com/2018/08/square-enix-executive-producer-yosuke-saito-to-announce-new-non-game-project-on-august-17
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Aug 14, 2018 11:39
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From what I have found, the relationship Nier has with Kaine, Emil and Weiss doesn’t seem to change too much from Father to Brother. I don’t think that they take him as seriously when he’s just a kid during the first half of the game, but they still follow him. I think Kaine might tease him more? One difference I remember being highlighted in Id’s LP is how Brother Nier reacts to the events of the game, particularly the two brothers in the mountains. Brother Nier walks away a great deal more shaken by all of that given that he’s also an orphan trying to raise his little sibling as best he can.
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Aug 14, 2018 12:07
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i am tim! posted:From what I have found, the relationship Nier has with Kaine, Emil and Weiss doesn’t seem to change too much from Father to Brother. I don’t think that they take him as seriously when he’s just a kid during the first half of the game, but they still follow him. I think Kaine might tease him more? Father Nier's reaction to what happens with the brothers is oddly funny to me. The surviving brother basically loses his mind. Thisis super obvious to everyone. So after we get done murdering poor Beepy, the deranged with grief sibling starts pounding away at the corpse like a madman and Nier's only reaction is "uh...we'll be going now."
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Aug 14, 2018 12:23
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i am tim! posted:From what I have found, the relationship Nier has with Kaine, Emil and Weiss doesn’t seem to change too much from Father to Brother. I don’t think that they take him as seriously when he’s just a kid during the first half of the game, but they still follow him. I think Kaine might tease him more? To be honest having an atypical JRPG protagonist is cool and all, but Nier’s whole thing always seemed like it would work better with a plucky JRPG protagonist being subjected to the game’s events. I mean, (huge Automata spoilers)it worked out pretty well for 9S!
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Aug 14, 2018 14:49
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Are there translations for any of the music? I actually bought the CD set and it sounds like the words should have meanings.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:11
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I read a while back that the words aren’t any language. For lack of a better word, it’s gibberish.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:27
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Yuki Kajiura does that with her lyrics, too. Gibberish is powerful stuff.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:46
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Yeah, for the most part the lyrics for the music of Nier is gibberish. In interviews about the lyrics, Emi Evans (the singer/lyricist) explained that she was asked to have the songs sung in a futuristic language. She accomplished this by listening to songs in all kinds of languages, then imagined how they would drift or blend. I think Keiichi Okabe has given an idea of what the song might be about, but if he did he didn’t stick with the original plan. IE Grandma was gonna be played during the prologue, not a boss battle. That said I like to play “what might they be saying?” with the Nier songs. I think the only “word” that might actually pop up in the songs would be at some point during Song of the Ancients it sounds like they’re saying “Shinjuku,” which was ground zero for everything going Drakengard. I could see that being the case.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:48
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NikkolasKing posted:Yuki Kajiura does that with her lyrics, too. The woman who does the Ar Tonelico songs that use an entire actual language made up for those games.
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Aug 14, 2018 16:50
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