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RazzleDazzleHour posted:Its funny to imagine a pretend universe where someone sitting down to play and thinking to themselves "what, I'm allowed to play any of these characters? That's a lot! In fact, that's too many options, I'm just gonna quit here on the spot" Lol. Honestly a marketing issue they have with competitive league is that we only really see about 30 champions in any given patch. The Nerf/remake cycle guarantees those champions deemed too strong will be less strong within a few cycles. The arguments from doublelift and revolta lately spoke to this-- you'll love a champion and they get gutted or changed (see old vs new graves which changed roles entirely). I think I would rather see league where the core gameplay has remained mostly the same but where balancing can make the pick/ban more diverse.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:07
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Wait, did LeBlanc always have this annoying forced delay on R? Like if you press R too fast after Q it won't go off, need to wait like half a second. I haven't played her in a few years and found this pretty annoying.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:08
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I think we're reaching the point where there aren't that many outdated designs left, Volibear and Mordekaiser could use reboots but I can't think of much else and of course those aren't on the rework schedule yet because they want to mess with Kayle and Morgana for some reason.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:25
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milkman dad posted:Honestly a marketing issue they have with competitive league is that we only really see about 30 champions in any given patch. 91 unique picks in pro play last week alone, 47 of those picked 5 or more times.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:28
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njsykora posted:91 unique picks in pro play last week alone, 47 of those picked 5 or more times. In nalcs summer the champion leaders are: Dr. Mundo has been picked top 41% of games Varus has been picked bot 36% of games Trundle has been picked jungle 37% of games Braum has been picked support 47% of games (tahm kench and rakan follow with 36,32%) Orianna and Zoe tie for mid both at 23% of game As a viewer the unique champion experience is usually 1/10 per game, with the diverse picks coming out of the jungle or midlane.
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Aug 14, 2018 18:56
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10% of the adc champions showing up in 36% of the games isnt bad
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Aug 14, 2018 18:59
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NALCS is a bad league to use to make arguments about champion diversity because they’re bad. Look at how bad most NA adc’s looked on Vlad/Swain/Heimer when those were priority champs in better leagues most of the split, NA Kennen/Jayce, or how often NA uses last pick to get a tank versus tank matchup top lane instead of a counter pick.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:07
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Enigma89 posted:If it makes you happy dota player base is crashing down hard too. According to some recent business consulting study on the moba scene, dota is slowly declining (8m and dropping) and hots is slowly growing (6.5m avg players and rising). I don't remember what the report said about league. I am at the doctor now, I remember seeing it on reddit somewhere in the past 3 months or so.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:16
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Tales of Woe posted:I think we're reaching the point where there aren't that many outdated designs left, Volibear and Mordekaiser could use reboots but I can't think of much else and of course those aren't on the rework schedule yet because they want to mess with Kayle and Morgana for some reason. Kayle needs some kind of rework, she's where old Aatrox was where her numbers are either too good or not good at all. I think with Morg we'll see a visual update and a new passive because they hate Spellvamp and simple passives.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:20
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They need to rework Shaco in to being competitively viable.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:32
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Boxman posted:For a multiplayer game, though, it’s reasonable to be concerned with whether other people enjoy/can get into your favorite game. Ask those poor fucks still grinding away at MvC:I. lawbreakers, radical heights, dawngate, all had lovely queue times, even Battle Rite is starting to get 10+ minute queue times for any type of mode. Until league hits that I don't think it's worth freaking out about. I own no loyalty to Riot, I play games because I find them fun, and once league stops being fun or a hassle I'll just move on to the next thing. It loving rocks being a consumer man.
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Aug 14, 2018 19:46
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Tales of Woe posted:I think we're reaching the point where there aren't that many outdated designs left, Volibear and Mordekaiser could use reboots but I can't think of much else and of course those aren't on the rework schedule yet because they want to mess with Kayle and Morgana for some reason. They've been wanting to VU Morgana for a while, and Kayle's got a very clear identity that you can build a VGU around. I imagine Mordekaiser and Volibear are stuck in the same "what the gently caress do we do with them" category as Aatrox: Morde's kit has always been an insane mess, even before his first rework, and everything notable about current Volibear is him being a shittier Warwick.
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Aug 14, 2018 20:32
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kayle badly needs a visual update because she's smaller than tristana. also now that champs are getting huge wings they can make aether wing kayle look badass instead of a 1/3rd sized lovely toy out of a quarter machine
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Aug 14, 2018 20:38
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wasn't the plan for reworked morg/kayle in time for the vs event next year
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Aug 14, 2018 20:41
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Outdated kits that could use a rework: Blitz, Udyr, Nasus, Jax, Mundo, Pantheon Udyr is the one who most desperately needs VGU (because they released Spirit Guard instead), and Blitz needs a gameplay rework the most. He’s Q. That’s it. Maybe Pantheon needs one even more
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Aug 14, 2018 20:47
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In my heart of hearts I wish they'd just leave Pantheon the gently caress alone because his kit is so wonderfully simple and easy to grasp but I know eventually that gets them thinking of weird poo poo and inevitably gives them the idea to rework them. Most of the reworks of old characters have been pretty good (and Nunu looks to be pretty decent as well) but I kinda wish they'd leave Pantheon alone. His passive is great, his skills are totally fine. It's completely okay to have simple characters in this game: see Wukong, Sona, etc If I had to guess they'll make his spear or his stun a loving skillshot, because of course it has to be
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Aug 14, 2018 20:57
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kingcobweb posted:Outdated kits that could use a rework: Blitz is my perfect metal boy and he also has the tech play of running up and punching them then Q-ing
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Aug 14, 2018 20:59
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Wasn't Voli basically a quick lovely champion they made because they had done multiple thin women champs back-to-back? I could've swore his entire reason for being was "Fine. You want something else? Here's a loving bear.  "
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Aug 14, 2018 21:00
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The Nunubot interactions are insanely good. “Someone tell these monsters they are trash. I can’t because I’m chat restricted”
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Aug 14, 2018 21:06
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lmao at riot games
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Aug 14, 2018 21:13
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duck trucker posted:Wasn't Voli basically a quick lovely champion they made because they had done multiple thin women champs back-to-back? The only notable thing about its release was that it was someone's pet project that was vehemently opposed by Riot Zilean, in public.
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Aug 14, 2018 21:17
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kingcobweb posted:The Nunubot interactions are insanely good. "I need six more RP for star guardian urgot" The skin is nothing but inside jokes it's cool
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Aug 14, 2018 21:20
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I'm gonna admit I usually hate High Noon skins because they're so low-effort (and Urgot's still kinda is) but High Noon Lucian/Thresh look dope as gently caress
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Aug 14, 2018 21:28
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high noon urgot is the bad guy from wild wild west, but the skin still isnt visually very interesting. high noon lucian is bad rear end
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Aug 14, 2018 21:29
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kingcobweb posted:Outdated kits that could use a rework: I don't think you're going to see reworks to any of those except maybe Udyr and Jax, if they do rework Blitz it's gonna be something closer to Xin where they mess with 1/2 skills and leave the rest of his skills alone. I think if you're looking at the kits that absolutely need it, the big reworks after Kayle (and Morg but that's mostly a VU) are going to be some combination of Mordekaiser, Shaco, Udyr.
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Aug 14, 2018 21:30
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rabidsquid posted:high noon urgot is the bad guy from wild wild west, but the skin still isnt visually very interesting. high noon lucian is bad rear end 
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Aug 14, 2018 21:30
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milkman dad posted:Riot should improve in-game tutorials to teach advanced mechanics, even against bots, and when a player has demonstrated they understand them then get into ranked play (things like pulling the drake out of the pit, using pink wards to deny vision, damage taken from creeps during a trade, etc ). Riot should also make all champions free to access and find another incentive for rp purchases (e.g. release more skins!). Finally they should just integrate the blitz.gg app with the client because the basic matchup info, build order, and skill order make trying new champions fun and interesting instead of confusing. Why do you have to pull the drake out of the pit? Also has anyone here played against masters or challengers? I'm getting diamonds in my aram games and they're way good.
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Aug 14, 2018 21:36
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uguu posted:Why do you have to pull the drake out of the pit? It gives blue side a chance to steal if you are doing it in the pit, if they want to steal with it pulled out they have to take a bigger risk.
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Aug 14, 2018 21:40
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Crazy Larry posted:NALCS is a bad league to use to make arguments about champion diversity because they’re bad. Look at how bad most NA adc’s looked on Vlad/Swain/Heimer when those were priority champs in better leagues most of the split, NA Kennen/Jayce, or how often NA uses last pick to get a tank versus tank matchup top lane instead of a counter pick. Let's look how these compare to LCK! Dr. Mundo has been picked top 30% of games (NA 41%) Ezreal has been picked bot 41% of games (Varus picked 36%) Trundle has been picked jungle 43% of games (NA 37%) Supports a little different-- Tahm Kench is 38%, Shen is 34%, Alistar is 26% Zoe mid is 38%! (NA 23%) This is not a region-specific observation. All things equal we should be seeing more like 5-10% pick rate or lower depending on the role (~140 champions).
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Aug 14, 2018 21:43
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Vermain posted:The only notable thing about its release was that it was someone's pet project that was vehemently opposed by Riot Zilean, in public. Haha I don't remember that part. I wondered why there was specific lines about Zil and Voli hating each other.
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Aug 14, 2018 21:45
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is this game still bad?
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Aug 14, 2018 21:55
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milkman dad posted:This is not a region-specific observation. All things equal we should be seeing more like 5-10% pick rate or lower depending on the role (~140 champions). Based on what? The idea of a game with 140 champions in which they are all viable competitive picks that are picked at roughly the same rate as eachother is a pipe dream, especially with League's design philosophy of minimizing negative game-to-game variance. League is a heavily analyzed game in both professional and amateur settings, which makes solving for optimality trivial unless a significant gameplay change occurs (such as with the botlane changes this season).
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Aug 14, 2018 22:15
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panda clue posted:is this game still bad? What exactly do you want us to say here? Yes, its bad, that's why we play it and post about it on a forum?
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Aug 14, 2018 22:23
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Vermain posted:Based on what? The idea of a game with 140 champions in which they are all viable competitive picks that are picked at roughly the same rate as eachother is a pipe dream, especially with League's design philosophy of minimizing negative game-to-game variance. League is a heavily analyzed game in both professional and amateur settings, which makes solving for optimality trivial unless a significant gameplay change occurs (such as with the botlane changes this season). I agree that it's impossible for there to never be a best/most popular group of champs in competitive, but the assertion that it's trivial to solve it is just untrue. There's only so many people in the world who can test the game at a high level to come up with new strategies, and the results from that is going to be so noisy that it's very difficult to get real conclusions. Given infinite time on a specific patch, sure, but with only a month or whatever on a specific patch before all your testing goes out the window before the problem changed... no way. It's entirely possible that the recent competitive shift toward non-ADCs bot has actually been possible, or maybe even optimal in some cases, for years. Ziggs bot took off because a few people started succeeding with it in solo queue. Karthus/Nunu was just a couple random friends in Europe before it got popularized on Reddit. Would Yi-funneling have been a viable competitive strategy when Devourer was busted? Who knows! At best, competitive testing can find the local maxes, so to speak. No one has time to figure out if, say, three supports and double jungle is optimal against a specific teamcomp. For every support Miss Fortune or Taric/Yi, there are probably ten that never got found. Plus, players aren't perfect. They have strengths and weaknesses. If your team coach hears that bot carry Pyke or whatever is busted, and you try it out and get annihilated, maybe your Pyke player just sucks at it. Or the opposite happens, where you think you've found that a certain strategy is unbeatable, but it's actually not great, but your players are insanely good at it. This happens all the time in Magic, a game with way less "play" than League, where eg the conventional wisdom is that control is complete trash in this meta, and Guillaume Wafo-Tapa shows up with a do-nothing control deck with 35 different cards and wins the tournament. Is the deck good? Probably not, he's just a good player. kingcobweb fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 22:27
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panda clue posted:is this game still bad? the wise man bowed his head solemnly and spoke: "theres actually zero good video games. you imbecile. you loving moron"
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Aug 14, 2018 22:28
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I just got doxxed and brigaded by no less than 10 people in the goon league discord for that post. lmfao this thread owns Sorry for making you upset, Servaetes! panda clue fucked around with this message at 22:38 on Aug 14, 2018 |
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Aug 14, 2018 22:29
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Vermain posted:Based on what? The idea of a game with 140 champions in which they are all viable competitive picks that are picked at roughly the same rate as eachother is a pipe dream, especially with League's design philosophy of minimizing negative game-to-game variance. League is a heavily analyzed game in both professional and amateur settings, which makes solving for optimality trivial unless a significant gameplay change occurs (such as with the botlane changes this season). I just want to see more champions see the game, man. It's boring seeing the same matchups. When 5 champions make up 40-50% of all competitive picks it says that probably the other champions not being picked can use a buff. Here's the most "popular" composition across all regions: Dr. Mundo top Trundle jungle Zoe mid Ezreal bot Tahm kench support In my opinion this composition almost as interactive as you get and the excitement only revolves around Zoe catching someone with her bubble. If this was Jayce top Elise jungle Zed mid Twitch bot Brand support The comp would probably suck but it would be way more exciting to watch, that's for sure.
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Aug 14, 2018 22:46
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milkman dad posted:I just want to see more champions see the game, man. It's boring seeing the same matchups. When 5 champions make up 40-50% of all competitive picks it says that probably the other champions not being picked can use a buff. That bottom comp seems pretty unplayable regardless of how good the individual champs are. You need a frontline in this game.
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Aug 14, 2018 22:52
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Tales of Woe posted:That bottom comp seems pretty unplayable regardless of how good the individual champs are. You need a frontline in this game. Fine, put Sion top.
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Aug 14, 2018 22:53
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Mundo has fallen off in pro play as ADCs have returned in greater numbers because they can just shred him in a way bot lane mages couldn't. There's also been more ranged champs like Jayce and Kennen who are pretty hard counters. Elise and Zed have both seen pro play in the last 2 weeks as well (Zed popping off and winning, Elise not so much).
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Aug 14, 2018 22:58
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