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No, cats already went through the taurine-deficiency DCM thing in the '70s. Ever since that was figured out, all the cat foods have taurine added to the food, so it's not a problem for them. The thing that started conversations in the cardiology circles were cases of dogs that don't typically get DCM (pomeranians, mixed breed dogs, etc.), because if we see an atypical breed, taurine deficiency starts to jump up on our list of possibilities. After more discussion we found that almost all of these cases were eating grain-free or exotic ingredient diets. About 3 weeks ago, I diagnosed an Old English sheepdog with DCM, who was in heart failure and had an arrhythmia (atrial fibrillation) because his heart had gotten so big. Old English sheepdogs are not a breed that gets DCM, but he had been eating grain free all his life. I've started taurine supplementation in him, and his blood taurine levels were low, so I hope when I see him again that his heart disease has started to reverse. Certainly not every dog that eats grain-free is going to get heart disease, but right now it's extremely unpredictable which dogs develop heart disease, and we also don't know what percentage of dogs are affected, because unfortunately, DCM can be a very difficult disease to diagnose since they may not show any signs that they're sick until they go into heart failure. I would be especially cautious of any breed that's already genetically predisposed to DCM, but I'd be wary of DCM developing in any dog eating a grain-free diet until more information is found.
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Aug 15, 2018 04:04
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Do y'all have any thoughts about the ratings given on the Cat Food Database? I'm seeing a lot of new brands pop up recently that aren't mentioned in the OP, and this site seems to be pretty thorough.
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Aug 18, 2018 17:08
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Braki posted:So the FDA recently launched an investigation into grain-free diets causing heart disease in dogs. I wanted to post in here to spread awareness of this, because I know a lot of people here feed grain-free. The link to the FDA statement is here. Asked my vet about it: I've been participating in a discussion on this topic with a number of colleagues, including the veterinary cardiology specialists who originally recognized the link between taurine deficient diets and heart disease in cats. It isn't clear whether there is a link between grain free diets and an increased incidence of dilated cardiomyopathy in dogs, but veterinary cardiologists are seeing more of this problem in dogs who aren't genetically predisposed to it. Here are the options the cardiologists are recommending: 1. For dogs without cardiac clinical signs that appear healthy, changing the diet is the simplest and most conservative action until more definitive information relating to this emerging pattern is discerned. 2. If you don't want to change the diet consider getting a cardiac ultrasound and blood taurine levels evaluated. a. If heart muscle failure is identified change the diet and consider taurine supplementation regardless. b. If the taurine concentration is low, change the diet and initiate taurine supplementation. 3. If you don't want to change the diet or perform a cardiac ultrasound test the dogs' blood taurine concentration. Change the diet and supplement if taurine levels are low. 4. If you don't want to change the diet and cardiac ultrasound and/or taurine testing aren't possible then supplementation is considered to be safe. Taurine supplementation at 250mg per day is recommended for long term use. Please let me know if you have other questions.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:56
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If anyone has like a little puppy that they want to give the best possible nutrition for 10+ years, please by all means do some research and spend a bunch of money, but for my 18+ Jack Russell, I'm gonna feed her anything that she'll friggin' eat just the same as you would do with your 110 year-old grandma  HOWS SOME ORANGE SLICES? In any case, my other dog has turned 12 and I think she has been snacking on the Jack Russells' food when I wasn't looking, so she's gained some weight.. She went from 3.5 pounds to 4+ pounds and she looks fat to me, but even for a Chihuahua, that is basically elderly right? So I should be like gently caress it, she's a bit chubby? We go camping and walk at least 3 miles a week.. but she DOES look a little chubby to me? Is that okay? Or should I start restricting her diet? SHe has always eaten anything she wants but always been very skinny. Is she just old, and whatever? Or should I start feeding them separate? This would be a very big deal since they always free-eat for 12-18 years?
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Sep 13, 2018 07:56
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With that FDA thing, for bassets, do you think it's worthwhile to swap from Acana to Costo, lamb or chicken & rice? /e- yep I'm dropping them. Submarine Sandpaper fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Sep 13, 2018 |
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Sep 13, 2018 21:26
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What have other people switched from grain-free to? The lack of knowing what exactly is causing the problem is making me indecisive about what might be good to switch to. I'm interested in what the hivemind has to say.
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Sep 14, 2018 00:11
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I did the grain free thing because of a correlation with higher protein content. Dog's don't really care about grain tbh
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Sep 14, 2018 17:04
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:I did the grain free thing because of a correlation with higher protein content. Dog's don't really care about grain tbh I mean I'd like to point out it looks like grain stops dogs from dying from their massive hearts.
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Sep 14, 2018 20:16
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I got my dog grain free food when we first adopted him because my cat was on it and it made sense to me, and my vet told me to cut that poo poo out. In addition to the recent heart studies, dogs are omnivores and they need thr fiber. Unless your dog is allergic to grain then feed that lil critter some grain!
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Sep 14, 2018 20:26
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I was hardcore grain free super high protein small batch kibble for years, now both my dogs are on purina foods and doing better than on a lot of grain free brands I tried 
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Sep 14, 2018 21:27
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Instant Jellyfish posted:I was hardcore grain free super high protein small batch kibble for years, now both my dogs are on purina foods and doing better than on a lot of grain free brands I tried Purina Feed or Nestle Purina?
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Sep 14, 2018 21:40
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Okay, I'll ask a specific question. What are some good, non-grain-free, chicken-based dry dog foods for medium-sized adult dogs? I need to go shopping soon.
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Sep 19, 2018 17:08
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GoodBee posted:Okay, I'll ask a specific question. My dog has done well on Simply Nourish.
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Sep 19, 2018 17:22
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Bluedeanie posted:My dog has done well on Simply Nourish. Do you use the Chicken and Brown Rice formula? I'm thinking that switching my dogs from Blue Buffalo Wilderness Chicken to some brand of Chicken and Brown Rice formula is probably the way to go. They've been doing well so far so I'm considering the Blue Buffalo Life Protection Chicken and Brown Rice too. They're all fairly young and they haven't been picky about any food so far. I'm reading reviews of both of these and I'd be comfortable with either one. I might pick based on price. It looks like Simply Nourish is a PetSmart brand, which isn't a huge downside. Both PetSmart and PetCo are equally convenient, I just like the PetCo staff better. Or I can buy online. I do like to shop like where the staff is great though... I'm also open to other suggestions. I'll occasionally do some supplemental wet food too. I think I'll stick to the whatever is on sale method for picking that out. I figure topping their dry food with a little grain-free stew-like wet food will still be okay.
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Sep 19, 2018 23:27
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We used chicken and rice for a time. We switched flavors around a bit and eventually settled on lamb. There were times he wasn't interested in it but turns out we were overfeeding him so I don't think it waa disinterest in flavor. Now that we have better regulated his diet he doesn't turn his nose up at meals.
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Sep 19, 2018 23:52
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My dog is currently eating Wegman's Nature because that's what she ate at her previous house. I was going to transition her over to Wellness Core - is there a reason to use a different food? She's my first dog and I'm kind of confused by all of this grain-free stuff. I fed her a handful of the Wellness and she seemed to like it so the taste won't be an issue. She's six and a 45lb shepherd / beagle mix. Here's a photo of her from the walker with her dog buddies, she's the one in the pink collar. https://imgur.com/a/k0VKWqg
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Sep 21, 2018 00:05
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I ended up going with the Blue Buffalo Chicken and Brown Rice. I haven't started transitioning them yet because I just opened the last bag of Wilderness I already had. The new guy just seems hungry all the time. I'm feeding him a bit more than similarly sized older girl. I do remember that I fed her more when she was his age than I feed her now. I'm going to bring him by the vet for a weight check soon so we'll see if he's gained weight or holding steady.
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Sep 26, 2018 03:39
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Phyrexian Obliterator has been diagnosed with a form of inflammatory bowel disease, and the vet has recommended we transition her to a diet with hydrolyzed proteins. We've found several dry cat foods that fit the bill, but its been hard to find any wet foods with hydrolyzed protein. Are there any that you know of/recommend? Edit: Finally found a prescription-only hydrolyzed wet food - Hills makes it. Looks like Hills hydrolyzed dry is also better than Royal Canin's (chicken as the primary protein rather than soy), for anyone dealing with the same issues we are. Dienes fucked around with this message at 17:45 on Oct 17, 2018 |
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Oct 1, 2018 22:21
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So, I've been giving my cats different foods every once in a while. When i give them something new, they sometimes go to it, smell it. and then try to bury it. They make the bury movement they make next to the bowl. This means they don't like it right?
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Nov 2, 2018 17:53
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Braki posted:So the FDA recently launched an investigation into grain-free diets causing heart disease in dogs. I wanted to post in here to spread awareness of this, because I know a lot of people here feed grain-free. The link to the FDA statement is here. Welp, back to Natural Balance L.I.D. Lamb & Brown Rice away from Zignature Lamb. The article's description of a food containing Kangaroo, chickpeas, peas, and lentils sounds an awful lot like Zignature. That, plus the fact that Natural Balance is a larger brand. Thanks for the heads up.
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Nov 12, 2018 00:40
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After all of this controversy over legumes (I was already avoiding potatoes) I'm thinking that raw is the way to go. After my last bag of kibble (Canine Caviar - currently the venison formula but I switch the proteins often) is gone, I'm going to switch exclusively to raw, as I've been mixing frozen raw patties (Natures Variety and Stella& Chewy's) in with my dog's kibble for the past few months and it does seem to be improving his health. I just can't picture him doing well on something with grain in it. He's allergic to wheat, and I have tried treats with oats and barley and he can't handle those either.
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Nov 17, 2018 20:04
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I just bought some taurine supplements and have been feeding those daily until things get figured out.
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Nov 20, 2018 21:40
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The Tufts blog posted an update regarding DCM:quote:It’s not just grain-free. This does not appear to be just an issue with grain-free diets. I am calling the suspected diets, “BEG” diets – boutique companies, exotic ingredients, or grain-free diets. The apparent link between BEG diets and DCM may be due to ingredients used to replace grains in grain-free diets, such as lentils or chickpeas, but also may be due to other common ingredients commonly found in BEG diets, such as exotic meats, vegetables, and fruits. In addition, not all pet food manufacturers have the same level of nutritional expertise and quality control, and this variability could introduce potential issues with some products.
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Dec 1, 2018 01:59
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Thanks! I really wish there was some mention of brands or ingredient lists or even a big pile of data to sift through. I switched from grain-free chicken to chicken and brown rice any way. It is worrying that it's not a taurine deficiency for the most part since that can monitored with a blood test before there's a problem. I do have friends that have dogs with food allergies though so knowing what is classified as an "exotic protein" might be helpful. I think one ended up on salmon, which doesn't seem too exotic but?
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Dec 1, 2018 02:17
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Dog food advisor betrayed me, should just fed Purina dog chow all along.
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Dec 1, 2018 06:33
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They probably have the best intentions, but that website/business has lots of red flags that indicate they at some point have decided they know better than nature, because Science. It's really lovely dogs are suffering, but be careful taking their advice for granted.quote:No scientific studies have shown benefits of raw diets. Their appeal is based on word of mouth, testimonials and perceived benefits. quote:Wolves in the wild do eat raw meat (in addition to berries, plants, etc). However, the average lifespan for a wolf in the wild is only a few years. Therefore, what is nutritionally “optimal” for a wolf is not optimal for our pets that we hope will live long and healthy lives. (TBH, the pet food industry is probably not that different from the human food industry, and see where all that modern food science got us (75% of people in the US are overweight, and apparently 8.5% of all people world-wide have diabetes type II) Also, lol at their Obesity Clinic, I wonder how much they charge for telling you to feed your dog less food. Anyway, do your own research etc.
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Dec 3, 2018 13:39
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amotea posted:Like... if you claim you have a thing that's better than what nature has produced through evolution over millions of years, the burden of proof is on you. Nature has already shown that what it has made works, it wouldn't have existed otherwise. How's that diet of raw meat, insects, and dirty water working for you?
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Dec 3, 2018 15:31
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amotea dogs evolved to eat our literal poo poo, not what wolves eat hth
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Dec 3, 2018 16:06
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The article is kind of bad but that post feels like when Daniel Day Lewis refused to use penicillin when he was filming Gangs of New York because it wasn't invented yet, only instead of nearly dying from a curable illness he gave a dog explosive diarrhea and rear end cancer.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:13
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Dienes posted:How's that diet of raw meat, insects, and dirty water working for you? Submarine Sandpaper posted:amotea dogs evolved to eat our literal poo poo, not what wolves eat hth
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Dec 3, 2018 17:21
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Bluedeanie posted:The article is kind of bad but that post feels like when Daniel Day Lewis refused to use penicillin when he was filming Gangs of New York because it wasn't invented yet, only instead of nearly dying from a curable illness he gave a dog explosive diarrhea and rear end cancer. What the hell? I just consider most factory produced dog food to be the equivalent of Soylent, all the nutrients are in there, probably... we promise, but... yeah.
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Dec 3, 2018 17:28
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Most dogs thrive when they are given a proper raw diet. That does not mean tossing some raw chicken breasts from the supermarket in your dogs bowl and calling it a day (do not do this), it means providing a properly balanced mixture of clean, responsibly sourced muscle/organ/bone as well as any supplements that meat alone cannot provide. Raw bones alone are an excellent source of glucosamine and work wonders for dental health, as well as providing enrichment. On the other hand, if anyone is still looking for a good grain-inclusive, legume-free kibble, try Victor. I decided to give their performance formula a try, though I was sure that the grain in it would make my dog itchy. He's been on this food now, still supplemented with premixed frozen raw, for a little over two weeks and is doing great. No itching whatsoever, no digestive issues, no decrease in energy. I'm pleasantly surprised, and best of all the food is very affordable.
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Dec 3, 2018 19:19
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amotea posted:It takes quite a while for a complex system like the digestive system to evolve though. Dogs haven't been domesticated THAT long, some races longer than others of course. As an example, just look at the length of the digestive tract, or the type of jaws dogs have (they're made to cut things, not to chew things). Dogs have been domesticated for well over 10,000 years which is certainly enough time for modifications to digestive processes. Specifically dogs produces significantly more amylase, used to digest starches, than wolves. Here's an article! Feed your dog whatever you want but don't act like veterinary nutritionists are BIG PHARMA OMG because they don't recommend unstudied raw diets when this whole issue seems to stem from food that haven't gone through nutrition trials.
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Dec 3, 2018 20:38
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You wouldn't test the "raw" variable against kibble anyway. Those are two completely different diets with way more variables than "raw"/"not raw". You would test identical ingredients with the only difference being one would be "raw" vs. one would be heated to an appropriate temperature for long enough to kill pathogens (cooked). You would also need a large enough sample population and test duration. And a measurable definition of "benefit(s)".
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Dec 3, 2018 21:58
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Hey all, just adopted two kittens (8 weeks or so we’re guessing? They were found by someone and given to pet rescue) and I’m glad I read this thread. The foster person was feeding them Iams kitten variety and friskies/fancy feast (supposedly those are their favorite foods haha). I can see based on the OP that isn’t ideal. They go absolutely nuts when they know it’s feeding time and start jumping for the food and screeching like wild banshees and whine more than any cat I’ve ever seen (I realize kittens are far more crazy so maybe this isn’t that abnormal). They’ve even jumped up and knocked the food bowl out of my hand as I try to set it down lol. Anyhow I can start transitioning to something else as far as kitten food but could use some recommendations on brands (are any in the OP kitten variety?), how to transition, timing, amount of whatever brand to feed them and any advice on how or whether I should try and curb their outrageous behavior around food time. I’ve been doing about 1/3 can friskies per meal 2 times a day and some Iams Kibble.
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Dec 5, 2018 00:17
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Even the "worst" canned cat foods really aren't that bad. Don't feel bad about that. Do you want to order cat food online or do you want to buy something locally? That can narrow down some options. A fair number of grocery stores around me have started carrying some of decent cat foods. The super premium ones are still mostly at pet stores or online. It can also depend on your budget. My cats are old and have been eating the same thing forever. My vet sees no reason to switch them so I'm not up on current recommendations.
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Dec 5, 2018 01:22
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FDA is recalling some dog foods due to toxic levels of Vitamin D: https://www.fda.gov/AnimalVeterinary/NewsEvents/ucm627485.htm TL;DR: Nutrisca Chicken and Chickpea Dry Dog Food Natural Life Pet Products Chicken & Potato Dry Dog Food Sunshine Mills, Inc. Evolve Chicken & Rice Puppy Dry Dog Food Sportsman’s Pride Large Breed Puppy Dry Dog Food Triumph Chicken & Rice Recipe Dry Dog Food ANF, Inc. ANF Lamb and Rice Dry Dog Food Lidl (Orlando brand) Orlando Grain-Free Chicken & Chickpea Superfood Recipe Dog Food Kroger Abound Chicken and Brown Rice Recipe Dog Food ELM Pet Foods, Inc. ELM Chicken and Chickpea Recipe ELM K9 Naturals Chicken Recipe Ahold Delhaize Nature’s Promise Chicken & Brown Rice Dog Food Nature’s Place Real Country Chicken and Brown Rice Dog Food (See website for specific UPCs, bag sizes, and best-by dates) Also, wow, I've been out of the loop for a while. I hadn't heard about this big swing away from grain free. I would love to take a time machine to 2008 PI with that info and see the meltdown.
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Dec 5, 2018 21:52
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drat Bananas posted:Also, wow, I've been out of the loop for a while. I hadn't heard about this big swing away from grain free. I would love to take a time machine to 2008 PI with that info and see the meltdown. Just for dogs and it's evidence-based, so really the only meltdowns would have been insane ones. Probably would have been entertaining. Cats are still fine on grain-free.
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Dec 5, 2018 22:11
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We have discussed on PIFB how we all feed purina now and how angry we would have all been at ourselves a decade ago. Life is weird.
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Dec 5, 2018 23:00
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What do you guys think about "limited ingredient" formulas? My Aussir has been on a lamb and pea limited ingredient recipe from Simply Nourish for several months now and while he seems to be doing well on it, all this taurine business has me wondering if both he and my pet food expenditures might be better off on a more typical line of food.
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Dec 11, 2018 00:42
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