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CelticPredator posted:If “just liking” something is some kind of burn in CDspeak then this place is completely the worst. Actually, butting into a critical discussion to just say "but I liked it" and demand validation is pretty obnoxious, and you'd probably have a much better time on the forum if you could tone down that habit and engage in other ways
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Aug 15, 2018 21:12
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Wheat Loaf posted:I didn't even realise Indiana Jones crossed over with Enter the Dragon. Oh for sure, they're both in the Tommy Westphall universe
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Aug 15, 2018 21:12
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Halloween Jack posted:Believe it or not, I'm capable of understanding a story in which a man hits another man and the man (that is, the second man) falls down. I prefer the wide angles and multiple brief exchanges of, say, Project A to Enter the Dragon. If you want to discuss how a lop sau tells a different story from a dollyo chagi, I'm game. Why are you offering to post something substantiative, instead of just posting it?
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Aug 15, 2018 21:13
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CelticPredator posted:If “just liking” something is some kind of burn in CDspeak then this place is completely the worst. Depends on the context. Like, if you come into a thread of people who are discussing what they see as the flaws of a movie, and you challenge their criticisms and get into a debate about it, well you then don't have the option anymore to shut down conversation by saying "well, I just like it". You've entered the fray so it's on you to justify your own opinions with some sort of reasoning beyond "I just like it".
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Aug 15, 2018 21:13
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:We then get the second blue guy, who acts as a repetition of the first blue guy. The second blue guy is, for all intents and purposes, the same character minus the injury. So although the first blue guy was literally knocked out, he persists in the story - even emboldened - still trying to keep Lee distracted. The blue guy, of course, is Jakku.
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Aug 15, 2018 22:56
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Irony Be My Shield posted:I'm sure you can find things that are 'unrealistic' if you watch any good action scene frame by frame. Who cares. It's just the same thinking at work that we'd critique if it were applied to the prequels, because we Don't Like These Ones. Not that every criticism is off base, we're just lazy complaining at the moment.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:14
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It's difficult to write about TLJ because humor is ofc., intensely subjective. I can say the moment where Finn semiconsciously trudges down a corridor leaking what I assume is bacta fluid from hoses stuck to his recuperative suit[?] isn't funny because the pacing's too dragged out, whereas the joke of Rey inadvertently smashing the fish nuns' cart works because it's a quick cut; but someone would just be like "well I thought the bacta thing was funny." And you almost can't judge TLJ as anything but a comedy. Two of its three plots are literally Shaggy Dog Stories---the equivalent of like, character: "we will meet again!" Ron Howard in v.o: "I never saw him again." Like I said, it's kind of a sermon in movie form and in addition to being a single long belabored allegory it's one of those sermons where the pastor keeps trying to "use" humor.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:15
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turn left hillary!! noo posted:The blue guy, of course, is Jakku. Pretty hosed to reduce a man down as simply a copy of another, like they were part of some sort of clone army or something.
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Aug 15, 2018 23:19
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RBA Starblade posted:Pretty hosed to reduce a man down as simply a copy of another, like they were part of some sort of clone army or something.
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Aug 16, 2018 00:12
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Hodgepodge posted:It's just the same thinking at work that we'd critique if it were applied to the prequels, because we Don't Like These Ones. No; George Lucas’ prequel fights have an extremely different style. Watch the laser-swordfight from Phantom Menace again, and pay attention to the narrative. Despite looking scary, Darth Maul spends the whole battle fighting defensively, while trying to isolate Quigon. He spends most of his time blocking strikes and backing away. There’s a very clear progression. TLJ’s battle, after the first egregious shot, is focussed on these decontextualized episodes, where the character gets grabbed by the enemy, does some kind of move to escape, and then the camera pans over to the next guy on the other side of the room. Repeat. All with a weird deemphasis on most of the actual killing.
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Aug 16, 2018 00:29
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:No; George Lucas’ prequel fights have an extremely different style. Watch the laser-swordfight from Phantom Menace again, and pay attention to the narrative. Oh, there certainly is a distinctive style to it. It feels more like a dance number right from the start. However, it's easy enough to defend as stylized if one is interested in doing so. It's not exactly difficult to figure out what's going on, but instead we're concerned with "realism." Or accounting for every last mook death because they only focus on how some of them die? Who has ever given a poo poo about that? Does each one need to have to die in equally stylized ways? How ridiculous.
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Aug 16, 2018 01:21
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MrMojok posted:The Chinese Connection is an awesome film though i’m guessing you’ve already screened baby cart at the river styx, which also comes to mind as having one or two rather memorable action scenes
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Aug 16, 2018 02:17
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Basebf555 posted:That's a good example of what I'm talking about because Maul is the one time in Star Wars where they were able to cast a guy exclusively for his athletic ability and movie-fight experience. Not only that, but he was working with Liam Neeson, an actor who had famously been a part of one of the best film sword fights ever made. It's the best fight I can think of in Star Wars
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Aug 16, 2018 04:12
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Papercut posted:It's not frame by frame, watch the scene, it's very apparent in realtime. It was a tactical withdrawal
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Aug 16, 2018 04:18
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Halloween Jack posted:Believe it or not, I'm capable of understanding a story in which a man hits another man and the man (that is, the second man) falls down. I prefer the wide angles and multiple brief exchanges of, say, Project A to Enter the Dragon. If you want to discuss how a lop sau tells a different story from a dollyo chagi, I'm game. Those names sound Chinese
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Aug 16, 2018 04:21
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Hodgepodge posted:However, it's easy enough to defend as stylized if one is interested in doing so. It's not exactly difficult to figure out what's going on, Why is everyone taking time to say that they could post something interesting but don’t want to right now. Like let’s just focus on what Rey is up to during the battle. In the first big shot, a bunch of bullshit happens where all five guys approaching Rey swing and miss, then run away while Rey stabs one of the other guys to death. Then Rey does an effortless one-handed block stopping a simultaneous strike by all five dudes while using the other hand to grab Kylo in his Area and use his rear end as a launchpad for a powerful kick. We cut away to Poe, then cut back. Rey is now on the other side of the room, fighting two guys at once: Two-Knife Guy and Whip Guy. There is zero continuity here. After a few swings, Rey lashes out at Two-Knife. He apparently blocks the strike - but also falls off the screen and disappears. Maybe it wasn’t a block, and he died? Whip Guy catches Rey’s sword with his whip and slllllowly ratchets her towards the bladed tip. Rey eventually swings herself behind Whip Guy and forces him to stab himself. She shakes her sword free of the whip, and we pan over to... Two-Knife! He’s alive! And he’s standing by himself on the other side of the room, doing a pose. What was he doing there while his partner had Rey immobilized and defenceless? Now here we’ve got another Jakku situation, because I looked on Wookiepedia to see what is canonically going on, and they say there are two identical Two-Knife Guys. There’s a 50% chance that Two-Knife Guy is actually Two-Knife-Guy-Two, but there is no way to tell.
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Aug 16, 2018 04:26
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Like let’s just focus on what Rey is up to during the battle. They're bluffing. Unlike me. When I say I have something interesting, I do. For example: Thanos is daddy
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Aug 16, 2018 04:27
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Question Friend posted:They're bluffing. Unlike me. When I say I have something interesting, I do. For example: Thanos is daddy Thanos is....Vader?
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Aug 16, 2018 04:34
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Question Friend posted:It was a tactical withdrawal Lol The more I watch the gif, the worse it gets. Sword guy on the right dances away for no reason at the start, then waits his turn to wind up for a big golf swing at where Kylo's sword is going to be planted in front of him. The whole fight basically falls apart if you look at anything other than Kylo and Rey.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:21
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Papercut posted:Lol The force can predict things
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Aug 16, 2018 05:23
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why is everyone taking time to say that they could post something interesting but don’t want to right now.
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Aug 16, 2018 05:48
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Why is everyone taking time to say that they could post something interesting but don’t want to right now. Well when what you have to say is... quote:Like let’s just focus on what Rey is up to during the battle. ...a description of what happens, which is somehow bad, and your insight is that two mooks have the same weapon, there isn't much point is there? And... the situation has changed slightly when we come back from a cut? Really? I mean, you're probably the most astute critic here, and it's obvious you've lost any interest in saying anything other than "thing bad, I do not like thing, therefore all parts of thing bad." This part in particular quote:And he’s standing by himself on the other side of the room, doing a pose. What was he doing there while his partner had Rey immobilized and defenceless? is literally just "why are those other guys not attacking Bruce Lee with everyone else?" Which was brought up as a strawman version of what is going on at the start of this conversation. Here, have some fight scenes were everyone could have just rushed him, but don't for some reason: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpt8MQVCytM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MigKXB_zSyo The first one is especially funny because the ringleader keeps sending his guys in one at a time. I'm pretty sure that fight is being played as comedy, though. But my point here isn't that this is a great fight scene. It's that our collective criticism is now operating identically to the sort we've filled pages complaining about. We're just cataloging Cinema Sins. Hodgepodge fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 05:51
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I'd say most 1 vs. a crowd fight scenes fall apart if you watch the guys who aren't in the action. The Bride vs. the Crazy 88 fight in Kill Bill is good poo poo, but watch the guys in the background just kinda bobbing around with their swords in the air. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_B_1IMstVzs
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Aug 16, 2018 06:04
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My criticism of the fight would be that it's the big lightsaber fight of the film, and it's against some Stormtroopers in red with lightsabers. Kylo vs Luke, while a better fight, is also undermined by it being a big gambit by Luke rather than being primarily a fight.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:15
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Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:i’m guessing you’ve already screened baby cart at the river styx, which also comes to mind as having one or two rather memorable action scenes Oh, you know it. The last scene of that one is especially memorable. My personal favorite single fight from all six films is the one at the end of Baby Cart in the Land of Demons. Speaking of which, for thread content, if you slow down most any LW&C fight, you see that Ogami’s opponent’s rush in and often slash too high or off to the side of him, right as he cuts them up. But the choreography is so good and the people are moving so fast you don’t really notice this without slowing it down; it looks pretty great at normal speed. That fight in TLJ is like the complete opposite. I am starting to think Disney does not actually like Star Wars.
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Aug 16, 2018 06:18
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Wheat Loaf posted:I remember years and years ago there was a minor controversy when Lucas was quoted as saying that people who hate Jar Jar are "failures at life" but it never became a thing because it was 2005 and people didn't seem to have as much of a hair trigger about that sort of thing. Unfortunately the only source seems to be SuperShadow, but I would like to believe it is true because I have long enjoyed Lucas's occasionally less-than-cordial relationship with the Star Wars fandom. I remember once Lucas was asked in an interview if he reads what people online are discussing about Star Wars and he replied “no I actually have a life *laughs*”
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Aug 16, 2018 06:21
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Now here we’ve got another Jakku situation, because I looked on Wookiepedia to see what is canonically going on, and they say there are two identical Two-Knife Guys. There’s a 50% chance that Two-Knife Guy is actually Two-Knife-Guy-Two, but there is no way to tell. Two-Knife-Guy-Two is Bigger Luke who just arrived from his home planet of Jakku after it was destroyed by the third Death Star (Starkiller Base).
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Aug 16, 2018 07:06
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I hope Phasma comes back in IX, but she’s all done up like Cain from Robocop 2 in a janky robot body, complete with stop-motion animation.
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Aug 16, 2018 07:21
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A bigger problem with the Throne Room fight in TLJ, if we can ignore the choreography for a moment, is it doesn't actually tell a story. Or rather it does, but then instantly reveals that story to be a lie. The story it seems to tell is that Rey and Kylo are working together and on the same page finally. See Rey grabbing Kylo's junk (?) and Rey tossing Kylo the saber to end the fight. Teamwork! But then, because TLJ can't commit to anything, Kylo reveals he is still super-evil and Rey isn't willing to join him. So, what was the point of the team-up then? Just to fake out the audience? Weak imo. There is a reason some people wanted Rey to join Kylo, it's because what story there was in this fight said they were allies, only for the movie to immediately say, "Nah, not really". And to answer your unasked question, an example of showing two characters who have been antagonistic to one another in the film getting on the same page in a fight scene without dialogue is in Mad Max: Fury Road. This is because: 1) George Miller knows what he is doing. The movie didn't really have a script, just shitloads of storyboards. 2) After aligning, Max and Furiosa don't immediately turn on each other, the visual storytelling stays "true", for want of a better word. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HClM8YvNljo It's not the full scene, but good enough. Take particular note of Max handing Furiosa the rifle and shooting bikers in tandem with her, Furiosa dropping the plow while Max drives and the really quick sequence at about 2:15-2:25 where Max and Furiosa are firing in the same direction at the same dude.
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Aug 16, 2018 08:02
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PostNouveau posted:I'd say most 1 vs. a crowd fight scenes fall apart if you watch the guys who aren't in the action. The Bride vs. the Crazy 88 fight in Kill Bill is good poo poo, but watch the guys in the background just kinda bobbing around with their swords in the air. My favorite of this was in Beavis in Batman's dream. The Supermarines jump him but one of them stays back and does a jig.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:03
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garycoleisgod posted:
I agree with your overall point -- that the Kylo Ren/Rey team-up is a lot of screen time (but simultaneously low-stakes) for a fake-out -- but in Fury Road, they don't immediately turn on each other because the threat they mutually perceive is actively threatening until close to the end of the film.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:52
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It’s not a fake out. Kylo needed Rey to take out Snoke and the guards and wanted her to join up with him.
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Aug 16, 2018 13:54
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House of Flying Daggers is ST if ST was good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHKVAaIDeY0
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Aug 16, 2018 14:46
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euphronius posted:It’s not a fake out. Kylo needed Rey to take out Snoke and the guards and wanted her to join up with him. It's also clearly not just something that's going to be dropped and never brought up again. The Kylo/Rey relationship will, I'd assume, be featured pretty heavily in Episode IX.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:00
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Question Friend posted:There are really good silent movies you don't have to be a pretentious dipshit to enjoy. The General still has impressive action, Charlie Chaplin's The Kid is still touching and funny, and Battleship Potemkin and Birth of a Nation are still some of the most effective propaganda ever made Almost all reasonably well known silent films are good, as all of the mediocre/bad ones have been basically forgotten to history. Some of them lost forever. We probably lost a few good ones as well. The 1910s are actually the most underrated decade of cinema history. You've got classics like Victory, Cabiria, Broken Blossoms, Hell's Hinges, Regeneration, etc.
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Aug 16, 2018 15:43
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Rey not joining with Kylo at the end does not invalidate the story telling of the fight. The fight shows us how similiar rey and kylo are. You see what they can accomplish working together and you expect that Rey might join him! Rey rejecting the offer to destroy the galaxy together with Kylo then has a greater impact than if we are shown they are completely dissimiliar. kylos fury in later crayt scenes of being rejected by probably the first kindred spirit hes ever met is sold by this entire setup. edit: also the fight scene is good thx
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Aug 16, 2018 16:32
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Jerkface posted:Rey not joining with Kylo at the end does not invalidate the story telling of the fight. The fight shows us how similiar rey and kylo are. You see what they can accomplish working together and you expect that Rey might join him! Rey rejecting the offer to destroy the galaxy together with Kylo then has a greater impact than if we are shown they are completely dissimiliar. kylos fury in later crayt scenes of being rejected by probably the first kindred spirit hes ever met is sold by this entire setup. Kylo isn't trying to destroy the galaxy. He's trying to destroy "the past," which means all the corrupt institutions that rule the galaxy, like the Jedi and the Sith.
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Aug 16, 2018 16:36
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reys just faffin about isnt she
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Aug 16, 2018 16:45
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Wild Horses posted:reys just faffin about isnt she A bit.
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Aug 16, 2018 17:00
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Hodgepodge posted:We're just cataloging Cinema Sins. You're not following the post so I'll simplify. -Realism is not the problem. Narrative is. -In the span of a cut, Rey and Kylo go from working together to being completely separate for the remainder of the fight. That's bad for the narrative; what led to them being separated? Action is characterization, as when Rey surreptitiously wins by not resisting, letting go of or dropping her sword. These things are important. -Even going frame-by-frame, it's unclear if Rey is fighting two people or three people. That's bad for the narrative when it's established that there are only eight enemies, and the hero's goal is get rid of them as quickly as possible. (Remember: the plot of the scene is that Rey is helping Kylo to eliminate Snoke's guards so that he can become the new Supreme Leader and give the order to cease firing on the Resistance, who are dropping like flies.) -The film uses the same visual language to convey that a foe is stunned as when a foe is killed (stumbling exaggeratedly and/or dropping offscreen). The film also uses the same language to convey a block and a hit: both will produce an identical shower of sparks. It's kind of important to know the difference. Example: you might remember the unarmed Spear Guy blocking Kylo's sword with his arm-guards. What you probably don't remember is the same character being stabbed in the back with his own spear and killed, because that happens simultaneous with the block, out of frame. The result is that we are unable to follow Kylo's thought processes. We lose characterization. -Rey gets stabbed in the back with a massive blade. It looks like their solution was to remove the knife digitally in post, but that just makes it look like it's been totally lodged in her spine. That's just bad beause, again, it's good to know whether a character is dying or not. And Kylo just killed a dude, using two weapons at once, by stabbing him in the spine. It's established that spine-stabbing kills you. SuperMechagodzilla fucked around with this message at 17:48 on Aug 16, 2018 |
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Aug 16, 2018 17:12
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