FFRK and Chill

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MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

I have poo poo all for SSBs (seriously I have like 3 and they all suck), I feel like as a newer player (6 to 7 months, I think?) I will never see the useful ones like edge SSB, alph ssb etc

# ? Aug 16, 2018 16:54

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# ? May 20, 2024 10:09

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

that's a good thing because the vast majority of them are completely insanely outdated and have been superseded by bursts, ultras, and chains. there's just a few extremely specific ones that are still useful

edit: nevermind you clarified in your post

# ? Aug 16, 2018 16:57

Fister Roboto: Feb 21, 2008

MF_James posted:

I have poo poo all for SSBs (seriously I have like 3 and they all suck), I feel like as a newer player (6 to 7 months, I think?) I will never see the useful ones like edge SSB, alph ssb etc

At the very least you can pick up Alphie's SSB from the Acolyte selection right now if you really want it.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:18

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Fister Roboto posted:

At the very least you can pick up Alphie's SSB from the Acolyte selection right now if you really want it.

Ooops already blew my picks on +elemental stuff, unless maybe I selected that and I'm just dumb... Doubt it though since it's probably +holy and I'm swimming in holy gear.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:25

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

MF_James posted:

Ooops already blew my picks on +elemental stuff, unless maybe I selected that and I'm just dumb... Doubt it though since it's probably +holy and I'm swimming in holy gear.

Nah, Evoker's Doublet isn't +anything. If it didn't have Alphinaud's SSB attached you'd not even notice the thing.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:30

iamsosmrt: Jun 14, 2008

I believe Alphinaud is a very solid dive, especially if you have any one or two of his relics. For newer players who luck into any of them, dualcasting summons is invaluable into being able to clear the standard difficult content (weekly events and maybe tough realm dungeons).

His SSB alone with LD made him a valuable member of a few of my 4* magicite sub 30s, particularly ixion and Isgebind. His USB allowed me to sub30 midgardsomr. All of these are without chains or even very strong relics for those elements.

Is he a top mage? Probably not if you're min maxing, but he's drat good.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 17:55

poe meater: Feb 17, 2011

I need some info and guidance on the nightmare dungeons. I'm not sure how to approach the dungeons that require magic/summon damage or counter physical attacks.

I only have bsbs and rydias osb as magic damage. The strongest from what I can tell would be rydia with her Earth and water bsbs and osb. I also have papylamos 3-6 hit fire bsb. Are the dungeons doable with this? Doesn't seem like it, but I dunno.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 18:57

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

poe meater posted:

I need some info and guidance on the nightmare dungeons. I'm not sure how to approach the dungeons that require magic/summon damage or counter physical attacks.

I only have bsbs and rydias osb as magic damage. The strongest from what I can tell would be rydia with her Earth and water bsbs and osb. I also have papylamos 3-6 hit fire bsb. Are the dungeons doable with this? Doesn't seem like it, but I dunno.

You'll probably need to craft some chain -ga spells too, but likely doable. Depends more on the level of the folks involved, Nightmares were made when 80 was the cap so they're pretty easily power crept now.

Main thing is Valigarmanda, that one's a puzzle boss and you're going to need at least people able to cast Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh..

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:07

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

poe meater posted:

I need some info and guidance on the nightmare dungeons. I'm not sure how to approach the dungeons that require magic/summon damage or counter physical attacks.

I only have bsbs and rydias osb as magic damage. The strongest from what I can tell would be rydia with her Earth and water bsbs and osb. I also have papylamos 3-6 hit fire bsb. Are the dungeons doable with this? Doesn't seem like it, but I dunno.

The curada dungeon you can actually kind of cheese with ninjas, you use their two complimentary abilities that give them blink stacks (such as reflecting pool) and then hit 3-5-7 times based on blink stacks (such as raging water), I mention the water ones because those are what I use most of the time since I have edge/yuffie with USB/BSBs that are water.

I forget the other ones, but really, if you have characters at 99 and have honed up chain elementals you can blow through them pretty easily and dumb SB on whatever bad SBs you have (except the defaults, might as well not waste the time with those).

If you are low on major orbs and haven't honed chain-gas yet, you're likely going to have to do some powerup dungeons to get hones for those, but you should have a fuckload of major orbs from doing realm dungeons unless you blew them all already, or haven't done all the realms.

Bruceski posted:

You'll probably need to craft some chain -ga spells too, but likely doable. Depends more on the level of the folks involved, Nightmares were made when 80 was the cap so they're pretty easily power crept now.

Main thing is Valigarmanda, that one's a puzzle boss and you're going to need at least people able to cast Ifrit/Shiva/Ramuh..

I haven't mastered it yet (only nightmare dungeon I haven't, and I'm lazy and haven't gone back to do it) but you can definitely beat it without honing up a bunch of different ones, I just honed up a few to like r2 and r3 and used Rydia (my only summoner with SBs) OSB and BSB to do the rest of the work.

MF_James fucked around with this message at 19:10 on Aug 16, 2018

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:08

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

also, most bsb's were contemporary with the nightmare dungeons being released, so not having much besides them shouldn't put you off. the caveat being they're not going to let you break them over your knee like some usbs will

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:11

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

poe meater posted:

I need some info and guidance on the nightmare dungeons. I'm not sure how to approach the dungeons that require magic/summon damage or counter physical attacks.

I only have bsbs and rydias osb as magic damage. The strongest from what I can tell would be rydia with her Earth and water bsbs and osb. I also have papylamos 3-6 hit fire bsb. Are the dungeons doable with this? Doesn't seem like it, but I dunno.

The Nightmares were released very early, high end characters were level 80, and before a lot of the current 5* skills even existed, and the ones that did exist were much less powerful (less hits, less potency, etc), and USB's didn't exist. BSB's are plenty strong enough for them. Many can be cheesed out with an appropriate USB/BSB, though for some you will actually have to hold back damage to work around the scripted parts of the fight to earn mastery.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:13

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Indecisive posted:

The Nightmares were released very early, high end characters were level 80, and before a lot of the current 5* skills even existed, and the ones that did exist were much less powerful (less hits, less potency, etc), and USB's didn't exist. BSB's are plenty strong enough for them. Many can be cheesed out with an appropriate USB/BSB, though for some you will actually have to hold back damage to work around the scripted parts of the fight to earn mastery.

Yeah I was thinking more in terms of mastery because that's how I tried to tackle them first time when I started (I have this *thing* about leaving stuff unfinished, 100% first time even if the reward's junk). Brute forcing almost all of them is very doable these days.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 19:18

Elephant Ambush: Nov 13, 2012; ...We sholde spenden more time together. What sayest thou?; Nap Ghost

I think I'm going to go back and spinning piledriver the Nightmares tonight just for fun. Those were painful when they came out.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 20:25

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Indecisive posted:

The Nightmares were released very early, high end characters were level 80, and before a lot of the current 5* skills even existed, and the ones that did exist were much less powerful (less hits, less potency, etc), and USB's didn't exist. BSB's are plenty strong enough for them. Many can be cheesed out with an appropriate USB/BSB, though for some you will actually have to hold back damage to work around the scripted parts of the fight to earn mastery.

IIRC chain -gas were 3 hits back then or otherwise not as potent as now, and in any case having more than R2 in any 5* ability put you squarely in whale territory. And even then it was tricky to not beat Kaiser Dragon before you could pull off the mastery conditions. Otherwise you had people theorycrafting about weird stuff like the MND breakpoints to cap single-hit attacks in the Evrae Altana fight.

Nowadays the default situation is that you're mostly using multi-hit 5* abilities, or if you're less well off then you're merely using BSB commands. Maximum HP is also higher, and in fact we have so many tools for getting around or supplementing HP limits that you can brute force a lot of the counters for using the wrong type of abilities. Even Valigarmanda can probably be slapped around by an appropriately buffed party that isn't exclusively using fire/ice/lightning, and Omega Weapon is equally laughable with enough Last Stand support to bypass the perils of Heartless Angel. In any case Rydia BSB1 will work quite well for either summon Nightmare (Neo Bahamut or Valigarmanda), since the boss gimmicks don't stipulate earth resistance.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:10

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

well diving both yuffie and eiko wiped out my stash of wisdom motes so alphinaud is a moot point. a quick question though, the moderate silence resistance eiko gets from her dive means equipping her with accessories that have less than major resist silence is redundant, right? they don�t stack, they overwrite?

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:29

Prav: Oct 29, 2011

Cowcaster posted:

well diving both yuffie and eiko wiped out my stash of wisdom motes so alphinaud is a moot point. a quick question though, the moderate silence resistance eiko gets from her dive means equipping her with accessories that have less than major resist silence is redundant, right? they don�t stack, they overwrite?

elemental overwrites, status stacks

# ? Aug 16, 2018 21:56

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Prav posted:

elemental overwrites, status stacks

I did not know this, I assume behind the scenes minor/moderate/major are % based or something, like let's say 25/50/75%, do we know if they're additive or multiplicative?

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:03

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Cowcaster posted:

well diving both yuffie and eiko wiped out my stash of wisdom motes so alphinaud is a moot point. a quick question though, the moderate silence resistance eiko gets from her dive means equipping her with accessories that have less than major resist silence is redundant, right? they don�t stack, they overwrite?

Status resists stack just fine, though don't expect them to do anything against Neo Torments because :byodood:

game design is hard and we gotta make silver bullets to counter all those drat defenses we gave the players instead of backing up and actually designing a proper basis for qualitative status effects. AFAIK this is the general procedure for status effects against players - even PC-on-PC status effects apparently use this rather than the flat rates for PC-on-monster.

If the target is immune, the status effect is blocked.
Otherwise, if the status effect is auto-hit then it succeeds.
Otherwise, find the relevant Hit Rate (H) and Resistance (R). H is between 1 and 100, while R is 1 with no resistance effects or is the sum of all resistance values from effects (minor = 2 or 3, moderate = 10 or 11, major = 100 or 101).*
The net hit rate (NHR) is then 3% + 3% * (H/R), rounded up to the nearest percent. (For H = 100 and R = 1 you get NHR = 303%, hence the wealth of 303% chances to hit in AI logs.)
Cap NHR at 100%.
Apply Affliction Break (* 0.5) or Fujin SB (* 0.75) to NHR, rounding up to the nearest percent, unless the status effect is gravity (%HP) damage.
Generate a random number between 1 and 100. If it is over NHR, the status effect is blocked.
Otherwise, if Astra is active then block the status effect and remove Astra. This does not function against gravity damage.
Otherwise the status effect succeeds.

There are a few things to take away here. First, stacking status resists can be useful, but combining tiers of resistance isn't worth it. Second, minor resistance isn't going to cut it against major bosses on its own because you're still left with 153% or 103% NHR which then still caps and auto-hits. Third, enemy imperils count as status effects and in fact usually get some chance to hit in the AI logs. Last, Affliction Break and Fujin SB apply after the 100% cutoff, so with them you can always apply some resistance to bosses with multiple status effects or to otherwise unstoppable imperils.

*You get +1 R for each source of resistance with synergy, but it hardly matters unless you're stuck with multiple instances of minor resistance.

MF_James posted:

I did not know this, I assume behind the scenes minor/moderate/major are % based or something, like let's say 25/50/75%, do we know if they're additive or multiplicative?

Elemental resistances are instead minor = -10% or -20%, moderate = -30% or -40%, and major = -60% or -70%. Again synergy makes things one step better, though this time that difference actually matters. I know that enelement effects also give -20% elemental damage taken, and apparently they stack additively as part of this calculation (So enwater + moderate water resist gives a net -50% to water damage taken). Elemental resistances from magicite are entirely distinct and multiplicative (so -10% from minor resist and -10% from magicite means .9 * .9 = .81 = -19% damage taken) but not currently potent enough to matter.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:14

Nihilarian: Oct 2, 2013

hell yeah, first gen 2 chain. And Clouds thing, too, I'll take it.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:06

Armitage: Aug 16, 2005; "Mathman's not here." "Oh? Where is he?" "He's in the Mathroom."

Yet another 1/11

I�ll happily take it this time!!

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:15

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

I got Cloud USB1 off a dollar draw.

:wtf:

I will probably want to rework my D280 team for the 7 Torment but I might be able to take down a D??? after all?

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:15

LornMarkus: Nov 8, 2011

It's only been posted in the Reddit discord but I figured this needed to be shared for the sheer :eyepop:

Solitaired posted:

Magicite Dungeon Assistance Lucky Draw:

Zack CSB
Seymour CSB
Seifer CSB
WoL CSB
Rikku CSB
Strago CSB

Minfilia BSB2
Kefka BSB2
Rinoa BSB2
Relm BSB

Minfilia FSB
Yuna FSB

WoL LMR2
Relm LMR2

This is obviously a JP thing but hopefully Global will see it too, eventually.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:40

Armitage: Aug 16, 2005; "Mathman's not here." "Oh? Where is he?" "He's in the Mathroom."

I dove Vincent and I got to thinking, I would like his cool doublecast bandana!

Solid, solid as a rock!

Plus my first new Cloud item since his OSB back in 2016!

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:50

MF_James: May 8, 2008; I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

posted this in discord but fuuuuckkk itttt I got lucky as hell

literally no dupes, except pulling 2 of the same thing.

This was my second pull tho, and first was a cloud USB1 (dupe) and vincent BSB2 which was welcome, all I had for him before was LMR and BSB1

# ? Aug 17, 2018 03:28

MarquiseMindfang: Jan 6, 2013; vriska (vriska)

That banner is so tempting but I need to throw all my mythrils after Celes USB/LMR/Glint/AOSB in the fest.

Sorry, Cloud.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 03:37

Indecisive: May 6, 2007

Sadly I cannot pull, only thing I give a poo poo about on the banner is firechain and chances of that are nil so I'll wait for fest at this point, nothing else coming up is very tempting at all. Hard to believe it's coming up so soon, end of September I think, the last fest doesn't feel that long ago.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 03:41

Kheldarn: Feb 17, 2011

2/11

I already have a Fire Chain with Gilgamesh, though. Ah well.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 03:43

DaddyBigBucks: Sep 28, 2003

My FF7 synergy is freaking terrible....

That's better.

First chain, first sb of any kind for cloud.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 04:18

Bruceski: Aug 21, 2007; The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

That spar with Seifer is incredibly tight. When I unlocked it at 29 I couldn't win, and at 31 I just barely did. Is there a way to egg these guys up to 40 or just grinding a smidge at a time?

# ? Aug 17, 2018 04:46

Alxprit: Feb 7, 2015; <click> <click> What is it with this dancing?! Bouncing around like fools... I would have thought my own kind at least would understand the seriousness of our Adventurer's Guild!

Bruceski posted:

That spar with Seifer is incredibly tight. When I unlocked it at 29 I couldn't win, and at 31 I just barely did. Is there a way to egg these guys up to 40 or just grinding a smidge at a time?

No eggs, unfortunately. I haven't run all the numbers yet but I think my way of grinding them will be re-running the Fynn stage and making sure to intentionally kill the FF2 gang before the one battle there is won.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 04:55

NGDBSS: Dec 30, 2009

Bruceski posted:

That spar with Seifer is incredibly tight. When I unlocked it at 29 I couldn't win, and at 31 I just barely did. Is there a way to egg these guys up to 40 or just grinding a smidge at a time?

The side battle with Seifer is actually the best place to grind. But if you're having issues with it there's an easily exploitable pattern. Seifer's first attack on Tyro (well, front row, but only Tyro is there) will hurt, but his turn 2 Fira is actually 40% current HP (so it won't kill anyone) and his turn 3 attack instead targets Elarra. Turn 4 is AoE Fira at ~600 damage, and turns 5/6 target whoever has the highest proportion of HP. Turn 7 is the rude double-hit AoE but ideally Seifer should be dead by then. So how do you deal with this? On turn 1, have Elarra cast Fat Chocobo and Tyro cast Biora. On turn 2 have Elarra again cast Fat Chocobo and Tyro use Biora Strike. (By now the latter ability should be safe to use with Seifer at or below half health.) It may sound unsafe to go in, guns blazing, but given the AI and your likely stats Seifer is incapable of killing either character before his turn 4 and unlikely to do before his turn 5. This gives you time to push him to 50% HP, and so on their turns 3+ Tyro can attack with Biora Strike (or his SB) while Elarra spams healing.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 05:09

Attestant: Oct 23, 2012; Don't judge me.

Pulled in hopes of the fire chain and some FF7 help.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 05:17

KataraniSword: Apr 22, 2008; but at least I don't have
a MLP or MSPA avatar.
I am my own man.

Attestant posted:

Pulled in hopes of the fire chain and some FF7 help.

That's a hell of an offbanner. :confuoot:

# ? Aug 17, 2018 05:22

Attestant: Oct 23, 2012; Don't judge me.

I pulled again, just so I could actually get ff7 items. That'll do, both new.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 06:31

stab: Feb 12, 2003; To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high

Always pull

Finally have cloud's goddamn usb. Only one dupe.

stab fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Aug 17, 2018

# ? Aug 17, 2018 12:58

poe meater: Feb 17, 2011

Wait why is everyone pulling? Is it time to pull? I've been waiting for the super fests or whatever

# ? Aug 17, 2018 13:12

stab: Feb 12, 2003; To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high

So uhh

What would be the best 4 to use for max "Cloud fucks poo poo upness"?
And embarassing admission:

How does Cloud's USB with solider mode work?
What does his glint actually do?
Am i missing anything for Cloud at this point (lol)

stab fucked around with this message at 14:44 on Aug 17, 2018

# ? Aug 17, 2018 13:19

Attestant: Oct 23, 2012; Don't judge me.

oh god please use [timg]

# ? Aug 17, 2018 13:45

stab: Feb 12, 2003; To you from failing hands we throw the torch, be yours to hold it high

Attestant posted:

oh god please use [timg]

Done and done sir

# ? Aug 17, 2018 14:45

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# ? May 20, 2024 10:09

Cowcaster: Aug 7, 2002

i'm at the point where i need to start focusing on elements/realms in my draws instead of just pulling for meta crackers and waifus, and wind/7 is one of my weaker ones, but i have a couple of dupes on this one. what's the second banner for the event look like?

Cowcaster fucked around with this message at 14:53 on Aug 17, 2018

# ? Aug 17, 2018 14:47

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