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People are really bad at evaluating risks in general, and especially when they see what seems like a really attractive out to a problem. Forget MLMs, people have been running the same scams for hundreds of years, and most of them operate around the same basic principle of 'Hey you can make some quick money very easily here, promise'. MLMs are actually at something of an advantage because they rely on propagating the scam through its own victims, which makes it seem more trustworthy. Plus, there is a very small number of people that actually manage to make money on them as a sort of 'proof of concept'. Sort of like playing carnival games - they are all rigged against you, but someone wins just often enough to convince people they have a shot.
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Aug 17, 2018 14:31
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GoGoGadgetChris posted:The car you like is actually bad. Liquid Communism posted:Hey, how about we don't go kicking a dude while he's down and admitting to making some lovely decisions thanks to what was, by all accounts, the divorce from hell. Agreed and also AI is a great time full of good people having a laff and helping each other out
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Aug 17, 2018 14:38
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e: quote is not edit
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Aug 17, 2018 14:38
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epic bird guy posted:Agreed and also AI is a great time full of good people having a laff and helping each other out AI is the cool place to hang out. You can find most of the cool people there. In AI you can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the AI motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends.
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Aug 17, 2018 14:39
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Growing up my close friend's family was a big Amway family, but I was in like elementary school so I had no idea what an MLM was. I remember going on road trips with them and of course we'd listen to all the Amway sales pitch tapes. I can see how listening to that kind of stuff can get people amped up to buy in. After all, it's sales, that's the point.
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Aug 17, 2018 14:41
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It seems like there's a spectrum of MLMs that go from actual sales/product based to ones that basically purely emphasize recruiting and are barely distinguishable from old-school pyramid schemes (except the legal requirement to have a product). Neither are good but I'm much more tolerant of people hustling to sell actual wares than people trying to "help me out with a great business opportunity"
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Aug 17, 2018 15:50
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Weatherman posted:AI is the cool place to hang out. You can find most of the cool people there. In AI you can just chill and do whatever and totally relax. "Take it easy" is the AI motto, for example, that's how laid back it is there. Show up if you want to have a good time. Another good reason to show up is if you want to hang out with friends. AI is the kind of place where you end up making actual IRL friends and end up driving 8 hours for an all-goon race team staying in an all-goon apartment and go "oh, wait - none of us are neckbeard goons, this is totally awesome." And then we spend all weekend racing and wrenching on cars, grilling on the porch and drinking beer.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:12
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I work on an app for independent business owners that does invoicing, inventory, data analytics, etc. and we added a budgeting tool earlier this year to keep our customers engaged in using the data analytics that we offer to help run their businesses better. This morning, like so many other times I see a customer request come through that says "Help I can't create/edit a historical budget" and I shake my head and think of BFC and wonder what possesses somebody to get into independent business ownership if you don't understand the concept of a budget.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:28
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Liquid Communism posted:Dying of exposure can be extremely GWM, imagine how cheap the funeral will be if the vultures and coyotes have a few weeks to pick you over first! I'm not encouraging anyone to go point and laugh at him, and if he didn't want something awful forums posters to read that post, he wouldn't have posted it on the something awful forums. Virigoth posted:Lol you’re in the wrong thread.
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Aug 17, 2018 16:35
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the dude may have been down & out but that don't excuse crypto
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Aug 17, 2018 16:42
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Can the many tree posts from r/legaladvice be considered BWM? Because they cost a lot of people a lot of money. https://twitter.com/legaladvice_txt/status/1030485040940150784 https://np.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/982hxz/a_neighbour_of_mine_cut_down_20_trees_of_mine/ quote:This could likely be in the "she'll have to sell her house and have any income garnished for the rest of her life" neighborhood.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:23
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Bonus this is in Oregon - which, I don't know if you realize, likes trees. Treble damages for trees. I don't know how tree law comes up so often in /r/legaladvice but it's amazing.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:37
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The best MLM I ever saw was selling an LLC in a box that have you everything you needed to get a bunch of tax write-offs for having a home office and other crap, and the business you run is selling this LLC in a box to other people. I mean, it was basically a tax evasion MLM, but I appreciated the elegance.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:40
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That is loving genius. Do you have a referral link?
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Aug 17, 2018 17:42
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quote:Tree Law Plz be real plz be real
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Aug 17, 2018 17:49
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Elysium posted:Plz be real plz be real It is, don't gently caress with people's trees.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:52
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I took an arboriculture class once and we had an entire section on calculating the value of trees for legal purposes. Tree law is big. Like, I think people don't realize how big of a deal trees are, and that's why you have so many of these cases where a neighbor thinks they can cut down someone's 100-year-old row of oaks.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:53
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I need more tree stories.
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Aug 17, 2018 17:56
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Ashcans posted:People are really bad at evaluating risks in general, and especially when they see what seems like a really attractive out to a problem. Forget MLMs, people have been running the same scams for hundreds of years, and most of them operate around the same basic principle of 'Hey you can make some quick money very easily here, promise'. MLMs are actually at something of an advantage because they rely on propagating the scam through its own victims, which makes it seem more trustworthy. Plus, there is a very small number of people that actually manage to make money on them as a sort of 'proof of concept'. Sort of like playing carnival games - they are all rigged against you, but someone wins just often enough to convince people they have a shot. One of the things I've been working on in my job is identifying behavior patterns that can generally be called "serial entrepreneurship" - payments to known pyramid scams, payments to/from affiliate marketing places, cryptocurrency, etc. Basically, someone who falls for this kind of get rich quick poo poo is not just BWM but also a risk to the financial institution because they're overly trusting of questionable counterparties and feel like the world owes them success at some point. These often enough end up in check kiting, excessive overdrafts, third-party fraud exposure/losses, garnishment levies, etc because they descend into desperation as they get deeper into the scam and start throwing good money they don't have after bad money they're not getting back, and eventually start believing it's not their problem to pay debts because again, the world owes them success and riches. Without an established and supported connection between the two, it's hard to point at the first set of behaviors and action a relationship for risk mitigation (i.e. closure) because there's not a pie chart for the people who want to make sure we aren't turning away a generally profitable segment. Bringing out a pie chart based on 3 years of data that shows people who do these things end up being charged off this % of the time and the net cashflow from account opening to charge off is negative across the data set. It's looking hopeful but I'm trying to really identify confirmable payment behaviors that can't be argued as false positives (e.g. are they buying a product from avon or buying supplies). Anyway, that's what I'm doing. It's a real low-priority side project but at least it might end up setting a precedent that MLM -> BWM -> client side risk in more detail than something like FICO which is not good for retail banking screens.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:04
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George H.W. oval office posted:I need more tree stories. https://old.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/8svb20/usatn_an_rlegaladvice_wet_dream_neighbor_cut_down/ posted:I live in an older neighborhood in a small town an hour away from Nashville. The cost of living in Nashville has shot up, as well as property values, and some people have begun to move into our sleepy little town to get more out of their dollar. A new-ish neighbor is an aspiring country singer, lives in their own world, and seems to have a lot of money. https://old.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/8svb20/usatn_an_rlegaladvice_wet_dream_neighbor_cut_down/ posted:Sorry for the delay, but that will be explained at the bottom. loving with other people's trees is supremely BWM. Different story: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/7p3ubz/updateoregon_neighbor_cut_down_trees_on_my/ posted:Original post: https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/comments/72h3rm/oregon_neighbor_cut_down_several_trees_on_my/ I don't know how I feel about picking 15 trees over 650k (or potentially less in settlement) but he did get some other stuff in the settlement so /shrug. If we're just talking money, not taking a life-altering amount of money is pretty BWM but trees are also nice. totalnewbie fucked around with this message at 18:11 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 18:06
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https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/environment/homeowners-to-pay-settle-seattle-lawsuit-over-cutting-public-trees/quote:Homeowners to pay $440K as the city settles one lawsuit over West Seattle clear-cut http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=20060526&slug=webtrees26#_ga=1.198855279.1969647791.1456040839 quote:Judge pays off $600,000-plus bill for cutting park's trees loving with trees, especially trees that aren't yours (but even ones that are in some places), is VERY Bad With Money Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:15 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 18:12
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Whoah. I have some seriously old trees in my back yard that are going to have to come down at some point before they are a hazard, and I thought I was going to have to pay someone to get them. It looks like someone might be paying me for the pleasure.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:19
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Nocheez posted:Whoah. I have some seriously old trees in my back yard that are going to have to come down at some point before they are a hazard, and I thought I was going to have to pay someone to get them. It looks like someone might be paying me for the pleasure. It's unlikely unless you have some seriously valuable timber, and usually trees that are a hazard are not.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:22
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Tree removal poo poo: https://www.statesman.com/news/local/west-lake-hills-and-homeowner-fight-over-tree-removal/GnYhay6dUIZ0cRyAnL3pyK/ Austin American Statesman posted:The city has one of the most restrictive tree ordinances in Central Texas, and Attal is accused of violating it. City officials said it is illegal to remove a tree in the city limits, living or dead, without a permit. Westlake is kinda in/next to Austin, for reference. My only problem with this story is that the trees he removed are poo poo-rear end junipers, aka cedar. The kind of cedar that causes nothing but heartache, sinus problems, and pain in this area. gently caress those trees. gently caress them long, and gently caress them hard. That man deserves a loving medal.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:25
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I get that trees are valuable, but your average rear end in a top hat doesn’t have hundreds of thousands laying around to settle a suit. Do they get cut down to the point of bankruptcy? You can’t get blood from an oak. E: seems easy to get caught redwood handed doing this. You’d be weeping from all the paper you willow howdoesishotweb fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 18:31
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Usually the courts will force a sale of assets and then possibly garnish wages. It's unlikely that anyone will see the stated dollar value but especially if someone owns a home they can be forced to sell it.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:33
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howdoesishotweb posted:I get that trees are valuable, but your average rear end in a top hat doesn’t have hundreds of thousands laying around to settle a suit. Same as if you were ordered to pay damages for any other stupid thing you did. Wage garnishment & forced sale of assets mostly. Ultimately you can't get blood from a stone, but it'll still wreck you for a long time regardless. At least in those two articles I linked above, it was rich homeowners in affluent neighborhoods cutting down trees (that weren't theirs) blocking their precious view. They had the money. Even after the judgement against them, it's possible their multimillion dollar property's land value went up more than the cost of the lawsuit since it'll take decades to regrow those trees. Guinness fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Aug 17, 2018 |
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Aug 17, 2018 18:39
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Nocheez posted:Whoah. I have some seriously old trees in my back yard that are going to have to come down at some point before they are a hazard, and I thought I was going to have to pay someone to get them. It looks like someone might be paying me for the pleasure. The price is what it costs to replace trees, not what the market is to buy random ones off people's properties. That said, email lumber yards or arborists before you cut them down, they *might* do it for free depending on the tree.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:40
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Is it worth invest 350k with Edward Jones to try and beat the market? https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/983szd/is_it_worth_invest_350k_with_edward_jones_to_try/ quote:Mom is 62 and is looking to retire soon... one finance investor said she would run out of money then she found Edward Jones who said she would be good for the rest of her life.. she needs to move soon and get a small apt maybe living expenses 1500/mo plus food and general spendings..pension may cover 2-300 but thats it. No 401k. how can we maximize this money?
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Aug 17, 2018 18:40
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howdoesishotweb posted:E: seems easy to get caught redwood handed doing this. You’d be weeping from all the paper you willow Now yew've done it.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:43
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Sundae posted:So, when I look at the situation, I see three struggling millennials with high debt, one with high debt and a good job (but one which is ill-suited for taking care of children), and my wife/me. We're the only stable set out of the family. There will still be two minors when the father hits 80. The youngest will be 15, I believe. If college is in the picture for the kids, there will likely be one still in college. The parents have, between mortgage and parent PLUS loans, over $400K of debt. That's just the stuff I know about (disclosures I made them tell me about before I married their daughter), but since then they also bought a super fancy camper, always seem to have new cars whenever I visit, etc etc. I highly doubt they're sitting on some amazing life insurance payout or inheritance, and even if they do, ten kids. See, the real difference between millennials and boomers, is millennials actually care about their debt because it keeps them from living well. Boomers do not give a poo poo about their debt because they've been allowed to live high off of it - and are STILL living high off of it - and they're going to die soon so who gives a poo poo, just take on more.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:44
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howdoesishotweb posted:E: seems easy to get caught redwood handed doing this. You’d be weeping from all the paper you willow speaking of redwoods (Illinois)Neighbor, cut down a rare 150-year-old tree that has been in my family for generations quote:Recently a great aunt of mine died, and we needed to send a week in Washington State, and we asked a neighbor to take care of our five cats, two dogs, and 100+ chickens. We came back this morning and my parents had dropped me off at school this morning straight from the airport before heading home. While my dad was inspecting the property, he noticed that our 150-year-old giant sequoia was gone. My Great-Great Grandfather had planted the tree after returning from California, and it's not native to Northern Illinois but with the right care it can survive, you just have to be careful about windburn in the winter. Now the tree itself isn't that large because it's still young and the winters here (like this one that won't end because we have loving snow in April) stunt its annual growth. Upon the first confrontation, the neighbor admitted he had cut it down but upon further questioning will say nothing/denies doing it at all and my parents really have no idea what to do from here, and I want to be able to help them. quote:On to the real update I don't have the full picture I was tangentially involved after my original post at best. My parents ended up getting a lawyer (obviously), and it ended up growing to a team of three lawyers. It started with them billing hourly, but the guy ended up doing something to end up pissing them off so much that they switched over to being paid on contingency and we got lawyers costs included in our settlement. And for those of you saying follow the lumber you ended up being right, there is a house in Michigan that will be constructed using lumber gained from our tree. I never did find out about his motive for cutting down our tree and apparently its bad enough to get the "I'll tell you when you are older" phrase from my dad. But generally, it was good news, one day my dad came in all excited saying about how "we own him, we own his kids, and we own his grandkids' grandkids." It turns out we are going to be getting three 50-year-old sequoias instead of 1 big 150-year-old sequoia because they will be easier to transport. My parents say that we will also plant a new sapling Sequoia when I go off to college.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:49
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quote:It started with them billing hourly, but the guy ended up doing something to end up pissing them off so much that they switched over to being paid on contingency This is when you know it's about to get good quote:But generally, it was good news, one day my dad came in all excited saying about how "we own him, we own his kids, and we own his grandkids' grandkids." Hnnngghhhh
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Aug 17, 2018 18:51
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Fitzy Fitz posted:speaking of redwoods drat, that update definitely is in the right thread. Trees are cool and all, but I can't wrap my head around the decision to take three trees versus a life changing amount of money for your family.
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Aug 17, 2018 18:53
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Just how do you decide to cut down someone else's trees without ever thinking "this is probably super illegal and I'm certain to get caught"
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Aug 17, 2018 18:54
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Best I can figure is they think it's akin to mowing your neighbor's overgrown lawn. In one of the stories a neighbor thought the trees needed to go because one time they dropped some branches in the road during a storm. Another one had his neighbor's tree removed for blocking his view. The judge who lost to the city was trying to get a better view too. They're just plants! Who cares about some drat nuisance plants??
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Aug 17, 2018 19:01
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Yeah people griping about something outside of their property line "spoiling their view" will never cease to make me laugh. There's only one way to make sure you won't get your view spoiled by future development, and that is to own all the land in between you and the view.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:16
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Bitcoin, Forex, and Candles: There is unrest in the forest, there is trouble with the trees...
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Aug 17, 2018 19:22
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canyoneer posted:Yeah people griping about something outside of their property line "spoiling their view" will never cease to make me laugh. There's only one way to make sure you won't get your view spoiled by future development, and that is to own all the land in between you and the view. I would have some really great sunset views if I could chop down all the trees across the street, and demolish about 5-6 houses.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:26
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In regards to adopting, there is a federal adoption assistance program which provides a monthly check to cover expenses well into 18-20ish years of age. Not only that, but fost adopted medically fragile children get more money as well as Medi - Cal or equivalent in that state to cover medical expenses. If the older parents die or are too old to care for the children then social workers will try to find next of kin able to take them in, but if they do not have the space or the financial security then the social workers will find other qualified fost adopt families (this varies a bit by state too). It's one of the reasons that foster adoption is one of the best ways to adopt- much of the child's expenses will already be covered by the state anyway. Depending on the bio sibling's relationships with the adopted kids, just leaving them high and dry is kind of hosed up. True it isn't their responsibility, but if those adopted children had bonded with them for years only to discover they'd rather not have anything to do with people that aren't their flesh and blood it can be a traumatic experience for them.
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Aug 17, 2018 19:33
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