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Dolphin posted:Why? It doesn't help your case. But Mexico, Turkey, and Estonia. I’ll give you Estonia maybe, but Turkey and Mexico are not what I think of when I hear “developed countries”. Not to mention that the former has a low level civil war over drugs (at least partly because of the US war on drugs) while the latter is currently engaged in violent suppression of minorities on its own territory and is next unstable shitholes with actual civil wars and stuff.
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Aug 9, 2018 08:13
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I CANNOT EJACULATE WITHOUT SEEING NATIVE AMERICANS BRUTALISED!
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zapplez posted:I didn't argue that. I said that until America fixes its poverty problem, it will still be one of the most homicidal developed countries, regardless of gun control.  Hmm... interesting. Okay I decided to also check the homicide rate over time, which you can see in this other highly detailed graph  Huh. That's weird. Okay, for the sake of science lets cross reference the two graphs to see what kind of correlation we get when we compare income inequality over time, to homicides over time in the US.  Very interesting. It's almost like your argument is completely wrong. What do you think? Do you think that as income inequality goes up, that the homicides are also increasing in the US? Do you have figures to show that's the case or should we analyze Jamaica's relevance to the US some more.
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Aug 9, 2018 08:27
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Jaxyon posted:We can work on both poverty and gun laws. Especially since the US is literally the richest country in human history and it's the inequality that needs to be fixed, not the actual wealth. That's more of what you call a philosophical statement. Yes, we *can* work on both. In a practical sense, what makes you think we as a country want to work on either?
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Aug 9, 2018 08:51
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Let's not enact any kind of firearms regulation. It won't work. Especially not the ideas posted by people in this thread. Maybe there is a solution but we have not found it yet. In the meantime we could vaguely agree to fix social aspects like income inequality and mental health care (something I am completely uninterested in and never talk about unless I absolutely have to). It is a difficult and complex situation, let's not make it worse.
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Aug 9, 2018 11:13
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Dolphin posted:
I'm on the side of having some gun control, but I appreciate the fact you can't concede a single point in the discussion no matter what. Income inequality is linked to homicide rate. Do you agree with that or not? Just because those might not have correlated in America over the past 40 years, doesn't mean that its fundamentally wrong. There are dozens of other factors involved, such as global violence trends, support systems, better law enforcement, longer sentencing, age demographics, etc etc. What I am proposing is that homicide, or really mass violence in general is a symptom of poverty. We can take the approach of handling the symptom, but why not handle the cause? We can keep removing cancerous moles from someone that has skin cancer, or we could also tell them to start wearing sunscreen. We could keep buying insulin for school kids who get diabetes, or we could change the food that the cafeteria serves. vincentpricesboner fucked around with this message at 17:05 on Aug 9, 2018 |
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Aug 9, 2018 12:39
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zapplez posted:I'm on the side of having some gun control, but I appreciate the fact you can't concede a single point in the discussion no matter what. Income inequality is linked to homicide rate. Do you agree with that or not?
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Aug 9, 2018 22:41
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The fact that the study excluded the United States, the country with the most guns per capita, from its analysis of the relationship between guns per capita and homicide is extremely suspicious. Based on their criteria for including countries (minimum size, minimum development, democratic government, not fighting a civil war or adjacent to a country that is, etc) the USA should qualify, a fact they acknowledge when they add "oh except for the United States" with no reason given for the decision to exclude it. And there really isn't one, unless of course they began with the conclusion they wanted to show, and needed to exclude data in order for their statistical tests to come out the way they wanted from the beginning. In any case, I'm extremely skeptical of the utility of applying conclusions from a study that excluded the United States to the United States.
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Aug 10, 2018 00:18
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VitalSigns posted:In any case, I'm extremely skeptical of the utility of applying conclusions from a study that excluded the United States to the United States. It's also posted on the website of the Australian NRA.
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Aug 10, 2018 00:26
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Jaxyon posted:It's also posted on the website of the Australian NRA. Oddly it excludes Australia as well, again no reason given since it meets all the requirements listed for inclusion, although I suppose a country with low gun ownership and low firearms deaths might need to be excluded if one is trying to show no correlation between the two. Also "the independent study was funded by the World Forum on Shooting Activities (WFSA), of which the SSAA is a founding member", which is kind of weird right, shouldn't we be looking at peer-reviewed research in criminological journals or sociological journals or medical journals for information on factors influencing crime or injury and death, not marketing materiel from a trade industry association of gun manufacturers? Like if we were looking for a link between asbestos and lung cancer, we probably wouldn't rely on studies funded by something like the World Forum for Asbestos Promotion created by asbestos manufacturers, we'd probably want to rely on the medical journals instead, or at the very least something with better peer review than marketing copy?
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Aug 10, 2018 01:07
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VitalSigns posted:Oddly it excludes Australia as well, again no reason given since it meets all the requirements listed for inclusion, although I suppose a country with low gun ownership and low firearms deaths might need to be excluded if one is trying to show no correlation between the two. Funny how this kind of thing keeps happening when we find outlier studies that disagree with the the existing knowledge of gun violence and gun ownership.
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Aug 10, 2018 01:12
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According to the latest research from *checks notes* Phillip Morris, factors in immunology, genetics, cell biology, pharmacology, and virology all have correlations with the prevalence of cancer and this is supported by scientific consensus, whereas there still exists skepticism in the scientific community about the anti-tobacco lobby's attempts to link this disease to the nice healthy cigarette. If the anti-tobacco lobby would only focus on the real causes of cancer instead of their divisive anti-tobacco agenda we could finally make some real progress in the fight against cancer.
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Aug 10, 2018 04:04
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lllllllllllllllllll posted:Let's not enact any kind of firearms regulation. It won't work. Especially not the ideas posted by people in this thread. Maybe there is a solution but we have not found it yet. In the meantime we could vaguely agree to fix social aspects like income inequality and mental health care (something I am completely uninterested in and never talk about unless I absolutely have to). It is a difficult and complex situation, let's not make it worse. 
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Aug 12, 2018 09:22
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Murder rates are down from historical highs.
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Aug 12, 2018 09:27
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we should socialise the means of murder state-furnished machine guns in every home
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Aug 12, 2018 09:41
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suck my woke dick posted:we should socialise the means of murder It works for Switzerland at least. You are allowed to keep your service rifle after conscription is finished, provided you get a proper permit. Switzerland has a much lower level of firearm violence than the US, the answer to US gun violence is as you pointed out, to arm as many as possible with assault rifles. Serious though, the Swiss model would probably work pretty well for the US, better than the current situation at least.
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Aug 12, 2018 12:03
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Noshtane posted:It works for Switzerland at least.
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Aug 13, 2018 00:25
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Noshtane posted:It works for Switzerland at least. Difference, however! The Swiss do not let you keep your ammo.
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Aug 13, 2018 03:11
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Spacewolf posted:Difference, however! What prevents someone from going to the store and buying some civilian .223 Rem to use in their service rifle?
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Aug 13, 2018 09:39
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Noshtane posted:What prevents someone from going to the store and buying some civilian .223 Rem to use in their service rifle? .223 rem and 5.56x45 aren't exactly interchangeable  . .223 rem can be fired out of 5.56 with a loss of accuracy but 5.56x45 can't be used in .223 rem guns because of the chamber differences and increased pressure. Many places moved towards .223 Wlyde chambers in the US to make the whole problem moot.
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Aug 13, 2018 09:48
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Party Plane Jones posted:.223 rem and 5.56x45 aren't exactly interchangeable Unless there is something different in Europe, 5.56 is sold to the civilian market all the time. It might even be easier to find in bulk than .223 . And if you just had to shoot a few dozen rounds in one day, they are essentially interchangeable anyways.
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Aug 13, 2018 11:56
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Party Plane Jones posted:.223 rem and 5.56x45 aren't exactly interchangeable Yeah, firing 5.56 in a .223 chamber can lead to serious nastiness but the Sig 550 that the Swiss use should be able to shoot .223 without too much issue. Switzerland does no longer supply the militia with ammunition except in special cases but anyone who get to keep their service rifle should not have any problem geting ammunition from the super market. I'm sure there are reasons as to why they stopped supplying ammunition to militiamen but from the looks of it, it doesn't change the availability of arms or prevent anyone from using them.
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Aug 13, 2018 12:10
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Noshtane posted:It works for Switzerland at least. The Swiss model would cause any American gun-lover to scream about their 2nd amendment and is unimaginably stricter than anything that's been ever tried in the US. But by all means I would back it in the US, just as you will until you read up on it.
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Aug 13, 2018 21:04
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The Swiss laws are in some ways more restrictive than our federal laws (mainly due to not allowing defensive carry and having an arguably more complete background check regime), and in other ways less restrictive than our federal laws (no short-barreled rifle or shotgun bans). And they're generally less restrictive than our bluer states' laws; in some cases, strictly less strict. If we swapped their laws for the ones where I live: There would be no assault weapons ban, no short barreled rifle/shotgun bans, no magazine size limit, no limit on number of guns bought per month, there would be no 10 day waiting period, no law preventing any new semi-auto pistol designed since 2013 from being sold, I could buy ammo online, I could buy a small pistol, I could buy a .50 caliber gun, and I could buy a bolt-action rifle without a background check. Those are all things that are not legal right now where I live in the US. And, as far as I can tell, none of the Swiss laws would be more restrictive than the ones we already have here in my very blue part of the US. We already regulate full-auto and suppressors more tightly than them, don't grant carry permits, and have even more universal background checks than theirs (including on ammo).
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Aug 18, 2018 22:19
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frunksock posted:The Swiss laws are in some ways more restrictive than our federal laws (mainly due to not allowing defensive carry and having an arguably more complete background check regime), and in other ways less restrictive than our federal laws (no short-barreled rifle or shotgun bans). And they're generally less restrictive than our bluer states' laws; in some cases, strictly less strict. Hmmmmm a country with high standards of living and good pay has less murders than America despite having guns hmmmm I wonder whyyyyyyyyy
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Aug 18, 2018 23:15
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suck my woke dick posted:Hmmmmm a country with high standards of living and good pay has less murders than America despite having guns hmmmm I wonder whyyyyyyyyy Rent-A-Cop posted:Hoarding Nazi gold drives gun violence rates way down.
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Aug 18, 2018 23:55
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daily reminder to ban all guns.
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Aug 27, 2018 16:09
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Rent-A-Cop posted:Hoarding Nazi gold drives gun violence rates way down. oh gently caress off dude. switzerland literally got extorted by american-israeli interests in the 90's over this bullshit when in fact the united states acquired and retained waaay more wartime assets from literal war refugees on a level of magnitude way bigger than anything some crooked rear end swiss bankers held in their vaults.
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Aug 29, 2018 20:23
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I enjoyed this pictorial of making a functional AK out of a shovel much more than I should have https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/
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Aug 29, 2018 20:56
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Ultramega posted:oh gently caress off dude. switzerland literally got extorted by american-israeli interests in the 90's over this bullshit when in fact the united states acquired and retained waaay more wartime assets from literal war refugees on a level of magnitude way bigger than anything some crooked rear end swiss bankers held in their vaults. To be fair, the Swiss have branched out into banking for all sorts of terrible people, not just Nazis. Diversification.
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Aug 29, 2018 21:21
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Groovelord Neato posted:daily reminder to ban all guns.
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Aug 30, 2018 15:14
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When discussing Beto O'Rourke, maybe start by finding a source for his actual position.
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Sep 19, 2018 16:21
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Hey there y'all, how are we all doing this weekend. https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/oct/27/pittsburgh-synagogue-shooting
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Oct 27, 2018 21:56
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https://twitter.com/NRA/status/1060256567914909702 We really should ban all guns
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Nov 9, 2018 03:05
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Gripweed posted:https://twitter.com/NRA/status/1060256567914909702 Lol they consulted only EXPERTS not Cletus in Bumfuckery with his collection of phallic murdermachines!
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Nov 9, 2018 03:07
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I'm serious, the current existing gun control options are not satisfactory. On the one hand you got the Dems who want to do terrible, dumb, ineffective laws like the AWB or not letting people on the do not fly list buy guns. And on the other hand you got the gun fans who, if they're willing to even suggest anything at all, say we should just fix all societal problems and end unhappiness. Neither of those are acceptable. So gently caress it, just ban all guns.
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Nov 9, 2018 03:15
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We found out the shooter in Cali was another mentally ill white guy. Maybe we should have more programs that are doing proper outreach to soldiers to make sure this doesn't keep happening. PTSD isn't a joke. Its pretty loving serious. And maybe if they aren't cooperating with doing their therapy and meds, then they shouldn't be allowed to have guns. When will enough be enough and we need to start taking gun control more seriously?
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Nov 9, 2018 04:21
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How’d the California shooter legally obtain an extended or high-capacity handgun magazine? Isn’t that sort of thing heavily regulated just in general?
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Nov 9, 2018 04:38
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Tab8715 posted:How’d the California shooter legally obtain an extended or high-capacity handgun magazine? Not hard to drive to another state and just buy one in any gun shop. Gun laws that are only state wide are pretty ridiculous. Its like having a dry county. The drunks (criminals, psychopaths, etc) will just drive to the next spot to get their poo poo. Or just buy it on the black market anyways.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:03
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Tab8715 posted:How’d the California shooter legally obtain an extended or high-capacity handgun magazine? In California, yeah; however he probably just drove to Nevada for it. The restriction for handguns was only to 10 rounds though, which given that he was apparently using a .45 might have been the original capacity of his gun to begin with.
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Nov 9, 2018 06:12
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Noshtane posted:It works for Switzerland at least. Mandatory conscription? That probably would make America better.
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Nov 12, 2018 13:00
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