The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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smr: Dec 18, 2002

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Sound like he's just got an axe to grind.

It's a pretty well-sourced axe. I wouldn't let it be the only book I read about the topic, but I can't argue with the factual retelling itself. Some of the interpretation of motive might be dispute-able but he sources his arguments well.

# ? Aug 16, 2018 22:42

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:51

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

Solaris 2.0 posted:

So I�ve been on a Vietnam binge since watching the Ken Burns documentary last year. My wife having been born in Vietnam has also peaked my interest in that country�s history.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned �Embers of War�. I am a few chapters in and it is absolutely fantastic. I read Graham Greene�s �The Quiet American� earlier and until that point, that was my only source on the French period.

With that said, are there any books that focus on the initial French conquest of Vietnam? Or its history before that? Also, and this is random, but is Mark Bowden�s �Hue: 1968� any good or does it exclusively focus on the US side? It�s hard finding works that focus on the NVA or even ARVN perspectives of that period.

Why not read something by Ho Chi Minh?

# ? Aug 17, 2018 00:22

Solaris 2.0: May 14, 2008

A human heart posted:

Why not read something by Ho Chi Minh?

I read Duiker's excellent biography on him back in undergrad. Which I think I still have somewhere and need to re-read. To answer your original question, I'm hesitant to read his primary source works because I'm not sure what I would get out of it. I'm more interested in Vietnamese history, than I am in Ho Chi Minh's political philosophy. However, Ho Chi Minh is an extremely important figure in that nation's history, so I am open to biographys about him (such as the work by Duiker).

# ? Aug 17, 2018 02:16

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

Well, you said you wanted stuff from the North Vietnamese perspective, and he seems like the most obvious guy to give you that perspective.

# ? Aug 17, 2018 05:46

clean ayers act: Aug 13, 2007; How do I shot puck!?

Recently finished Taubman's biography of Gorbachev and found it to be excellent, he has tons of interviews with people who were close to him throughout his time in office as well as with Gorbachev himself, and I thought struck a pretty clean balance between the view of Gorbachev as arrogant to a fault and brilliant statesman. I do wonder if the west had played its cards differently following the collapse of the soviet bloc how much different things might look today, Gorbachev himself seems torn today between being upset with Putin and his rollback of freedoms gained under Gorbachev and simmering resentment towards the west for basically looting Russia (in his view) and humiliating it.
Anyways, eagerly looking forward to starting in on his biography of Kruschev next.

# ? Aug 20, 2018 01:39

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

A human heart posted:

Well, you said you wanted stuff from the North Vietnamese perspective, and he seems like the most obvious guy to give you that perspective.

Le Duan is really the more significant leader though. There's a good article by Asselin about this somewhere.

# ? Aug 22, 2018 21:20

Dapper_Swindler: Feb 14, 2012; Im glad my instant dislike in you has been validated again and again.

whats a good book on guy fawkes and the gunpowder plot and just that era in general.

# ? Aug 22, 2018 22:05

chernobyl kinsman: Mar 18, 2007; a friend of the friendly atom; Soiled Meat

Dapper_Swindler posted:

whats a good book on guy fawkes and the gunpowder plot and just that era in general.

the answer to this depends largely on how much you hate catholics

# ? Aug 23, 2018 05:02

Biffmotron: Jan 12, 2007

Solaris 2.0 posted:

So I�ve been on a Vietnam binge since watching the Ken Burns documentary last year. My wife having been born in Vietnam has also peaked my interest in that country�s history.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned �Embers of War�. I am a few chapters in and it is absolutely fantastic. I read Graham Greene�s �The Quiet American� earlier and until that point, that was my only source on the French period.

With that said, are there any books that focus on the initial French conquest of Vietnam? Or its history before that? Also, and this is random, but is Mark Bowden�s �Hue: 1968� any good or does it exclusively focus on the US side? It�s hard finding works that focus on the NVA or even ARVN perspectives of that period.

I really liked Hue: 1968. It focuses mostly on the Marines in Hue, but also talks about civilians caught in the crossfire, the Viet Cong, and a US Army attempt to reach the citadel. ARVN didn't get a lot of attention, which is a shame. It's hard to find good books on the ARVN. Bob Brigham has one, but I haven't read it in years and barely remember it.

For other books, I'm going to assume you already know about The Best and the Brightest and A Bright Shining Lie, which deserve all their accolades. Books from a non-American perspective are harder to find.

I really like Truong Nhu Tang's A Vietcong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and Its Aftermath as a companion to A Bright Shining Lie. Tang was a South Vietnamese elite who joined the Viet Cong due to Diem's corruption and incompetence. He was a secret political organizer in Saigon for years, was captured and traded in a prisoner exchange, lived in the jungle as part of COSVN and the Viet Cong's diplomatic efforts, and joined the post-75 unified government as Minister of Justice. He also became utterly disillusioned with the reality of the Communist government, and fled as a refugee. Last Night I Dreamed of Peace: The Diary of Dang Thuy Tram is similarly a unique book, the diary of a Viet Cong doctor who was killed in action in 1970, recovered by American intelligence, and published to wide acclaim in Vietnam in 2005.

Kiernan's Viet Nam: A History from Earliest Times to the Present is probably a one volume history of Vietnam. It's also comprehensive and on the dry side, but I don't have a better recommendation. Lien-Hang T. Nguyen Hanoi's War is one of the first serious accounts by an American-trained historian with access to Hanoi's archives, and follows Le Duan and Le Duc Tho as the party leaders who walked the torturous path to victory. Finally, War Comes to Long An by Jeffrey Race is an absolutely vital groundbreaking entry in counter-insurgency literature. Everyone says "Vietnam was a political war, and America didn't understand the polices." Race shows what that meant in terms of SVN and VC land redistribution programs, village administration, and how a handful of targeted assassinations could cripple SVN rule in a province.

# ? Aug 23, 2018 16:39

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

Solaris 2.0 posted:

So I�ve been on a Vietnam binge since watching the Ken Burns documentary last year. My wife having been born in Vietnam has also peaked my interest in that country�s history.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned �Embers of War�. I am a few chapters in and it is absolutely fantastic. I read Graham Greene�s �The Quiet American� earlier and until that point, that was my only source on the French period.

With that said, are there any books that focus on the initial French conquest of Vietnam? Or its history before that? Also, and this is random, but is Mark Bowden�s �Hue: 1968� any good or does it exclusively focus on the US side? It�s hard finding works that focus on the NVA or even ARVN perspectives of that period.

I'm not a fan of Hue 1968, but I already blathered about that in the military history thread and don't want to repeat myself.

For books on other perspectives (read: not US soldiers) I'll second the recommendation of Last Night I Dreamed of Peace and add When Heaven and Earth Changed Places by Le Ly Hayslip. Oliver Stone made a movie about this one, but the book is much better. This is an account from a woman who gets caught up in the war, a civilian in the crossfire. Be warned, the book isn't pleasant to read; she goes through hell. But it is a drat good book, and presents a perspective that is too often ignored.

If you're looking for books on the French period (not the initial colonization, but the war in the 50's) you can't go wrong with Street Without Joy and Hell in a Very Small Place by Fall. They're a bit dated, but they are classics for a good reason.

# ? Aug 23, 2018 18:31

Count Thrashula: Jun 1, 2003; Death is nothing compared to vindication.; Buglord

Cessna posted:

I'm not a fan of Hue 1968, but I already blathered about that in the military history thread and don't want to repeat myself.

Could you uh, at least link the post then? For people who don't religiously read both threads?

# ? Aug 23, 2018 18:42

Cessna: Feb 20, 2013; KHABAHBLOOOM

COOL CORN posted:

Could you uh, at least link the post then? For people who don't religiously read both threads?

Of course, my apologies!

Here you go.

# ? Aug 23, 2018 22:56

Solaris 2.0: May 14, 2008

Biffmotron posted:

I really liked Hue: 1968. It focuses mostly on the Marines in Hue, but also talks about civilians caught in the crossfire, the Viet Cong, and a US Army attempt to reach the citadel. ARVN didn't get a lot of attention, which is a shame. It's hard to find good books on the ARVN. Bob Brigham has one, but I haven't read it in years and barely remember it.

For other books, I'm going to assume you already know about The Best and the Brightest and A Bright Shining Lie, which deserve all their accolades. Books from a non-American perspective are harder to find.

I really like Truong Nhu Tang's A Vietcong Memoir: An Inside Account of the Vietnam War and Its Aftermath as a companion to A Bright Shining Lie. Tang was a South Vietnamese elite who joined the Viet Cong due to Diem's corruption and incompetence. He was a secret political organizer in Saigon for years, was captured and traded in a prisoner exchange, lived in the jungle as part of COSVN and the Viet Cong's diplomatic efforts, and joined the post-75 unified government as Minister of Justice. He also became utterly disillusioned with the reality of the Communist government, and fled as a refugee. Last Night I Dreamed of Peace: The Diary of Dang Thuy Tram is similarly a unique book, the diary of a Viet Cong doctor who was killed in action in 1970, recovered by American intelligence, and published to wide acclaim in Vietnam in 2005.

Kiernan's Viet Nam: A History from Earliest Times to the Present is probably a one volume history of Vietnam. It's also comprehensive and on the dry side, but I don't have a better recommendation. Lien-Hang T. Nguyen Hanoi's War is one of the first serious accounts by an American-trained historian with access to Hanoi's archives, and follows Le Duan and Le Duc Tho as the party leaders who walked the torturous path to victory. Finally, War Comes to Long An by Jeffrey Race is an absolutely vital groundbreaking entry in counter-insurgency literature. Everyone says "Vietnam was a political war, and America didn't understand the polices." Race shows what that meant in terms of SVN and VC land redistribution programs, village administration, and how a handful of targeted assassinations could cripple SVN rule in a province.

Thanks to you and Cessna for the amazing effort posts! I've really taken a liking to recent East Asian history, especially SE Asian over the last few years. Hearing the personal stories from my wife's family has also helped to peak my interest. I think I'll start with Truong Nhu Tang's memoir once I finish Embers of War.

# ? Aug 24, 2018 17:08

Cythereal: Nov 8, 2009; I love the potoo,
and the potoo loves you.

I was gifted Guns, Germs, and Steel today, and I seem to recall this book being rather controversial. Is it the good kind of controversial, or should I politely donate it to a library a few months from now?

# ? Aug 24, 2018 19:33

Silver2195: Apr 4, 2012

Cythereal posted:

I was gifted Guns, Germs, and Steel today, and I seem to recall this book being rather controversial. Is it the good kind of controversial, or should I politely donate it to a library a few months from now?

I believe a lot of it is considered overly simplistic or outright wrong. In general, historians today aren't bit fans of grand theories of history.

# ? Aug 24, 2018 21:12

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

I'm not an expert on the subjects he discusses but I've read the book and my two biggest critiques would be that he extrapolates way too much from what conditions are like on New Guinea (because he is an expert on New Guinea) and that while he makes some interesting points about how things like crop availability and geography can affect societal development, in the end he gets way too deterministic and essentializing about it.

# ? Aug 24, 2018 21:20

Boatswain: May 29, 2012

vyelkin posted:

I'm not an expert on the subjects he discusses but I've read the book and my two biggest critiques would be that he extrapolates way too much from what conditions are like on New Guinea (because he is an expert on New Guinea) and that while he makes some interesting points about how things like crop availability and geography can affect societal development, in the end he gets way too deterministic and essentializing about it.

This is exactly what I would have posted, hadn't OP posted it before me.

# ? Aug 24, 2018 22:53

Lewd Mangabey: Jun 2, 2011; "What sort of ape?" asked Stephen.
"A damned ill-conditioned sort of an ape. It had a can of ale at every pot-house on the road, and is reeling drunk. It has been offering itself to Babbington."

That said, half the fun of reading GG&S is arguing with it while you read it, so it can be stimulating in that respect. Just don't accept it as scientific truth, like some folks did when it was first released.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 02:00

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Lewd Mangabey posted:

That said, half the fun of reading GG&S is arguing with it while you read it, so it can be stimulating in that respect. Just don't accept it as scientific truth, like some folks did when it was first released.

B-but it won a pulitzer, surely it must be 100% factual?

(between Guns Germs and Steel and the Guns of August teenage me had a harsh lesson in learning to doubt books even if they won major prizes.)

# ? Aug 25, 2018 12:01

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

StrixNebulosa posted:

B-but it won a pulitzer, surely it must be 100% factual?

(between Guns Germs and Steel and the Guns of August teenage me had a harsh lesson in learning to doubt books even if they won major prizes.)

Alternately, you learned a lesson about books with "guns" in the title

# ? Aug 25, 2018 12:25

chernobyl kinsman: Mar 18, 2007; a friend of the friendly atom; Soiled Meat

StrixNebulosa posted:

B-but it won a pulitzer, surely it must be 100% factual?

(between Guns Germs and Steel and the Guns of August teenage me had a harsh lesson in learning to doubt books even if they won major prizes.)

add voices from chernobyl to that list

# ? Aug 25, 2018 17:42

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

chernobyl kinsman posted:

add voices from chernobyl to that list

..?! Whaaaaat? Could I have a source on this, please?

# ? Aug 25, 2018 17:49

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

StrixNebulosa posted:

..?! Whaaaaat? Could I have a source on this, please?

https://newrepublic.com/article/135719/witness-tampering

All of Alexievich's work is basically literature based on interviews, rather than history.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 17:58

Vivian Darkbloom: Jul 14, 2004

Any recommendations for historical perspective (with broad scope, not focused on one event) on the Arab-Israeli conflict? I read The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War so I know the basic narrative and I read one book from the Lebanese Shia point of view, but I would like to learn more about the leaders, ideologies, decision-making, military aspects, etc.

# ? Aug 25, 2018 22:22

StrixNebulosa: Feb 14, 2012; You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

vyelkin posted:

https://newrepublic.com/article/135719/witness-tampering

All of Alexievich's work is basically literature based on interviews, rather than history.

That sucks. They're great books/reads, still, but...

# ? Aug 26, 2018 00:43

Disinterested: Jun 29, 2011; You look like you're still raking it in. Still killing 'em?

Vivian Darkbloom posted:

Any recommendations for historical perspective (with broad scope, not focused on one event) on the Arab-Israeli conflict? I read The Israel-Palestine Conflict: One Hundred Years of War so I know the basic narrative and I read one book from the Lebanese Shia point of view, but I would like to learn more about the leaders, ideologies, decision-making, military aspects, etc.

Israel and Palestine: Reappraisals, Revisions, Refutations by Avi Shlaim

# ? Aug 26, 2018 03:12

ExecuDork: Feb 25, 2007; We might be fucked, sir.; Fallen Rib

Cythereal posted:

I was gifted Guns, Germs, and Steel today, and I seem to recall this book being rather controversial. Is it the good kind of controversial, or should I politely donate it to a library a few months from now?

It's probably my favourite non-fiction book. The critiques here are valid - he rests too much of his grand theory on what he's observed in New Guinea, and I have been told that most academic historians don't like it very much. There are a lot of other critiques that are less valid, like that it's inherently racist (no, it's not) or that Jared Diamond shows his contempt for [insert particular ethnic group], both of which are almost 100% exactly opposite one of his main themes in the book.

Why not give it a try? Worst case, you hate it and you donate it sooner rather than later. Best case, you enjoy it, and then you can look forward to reading his other books: Collapse, The World Until Yesterday, and pre-G,G,&S, The Third Chimpanzee.

# ? Aug 27, 2018 14:43

felgs: Dec 31, 2008; Cats cure all ills. Post more of them.

I was sent over here by the SAL book recommendations thread. I'm looking for a decent English language overview of Korean history, if anyone happens to know of one. Thanks!

# ? Aug 30, 2018 05:55

Minenfeld!: Aug 21, 2012

FelicityGS posted:

I was sent over here by the SAL book recommendations thread. I'm looking for a decent English language overview of Korean history, if anyone happens to know of one. Thanks!

Bruce Cummings' Korea's Place in the Sun.

# ? Aug 31, 2018 01:36

Crini: Sep 2, 2011

Per posted:

Does anyone know of a book about borders? Like, borders through the ages. How did one cross a border between Roman Gaul and Germany? How did borders become more entrenched and formalized as the bureaucratic state blossomed in the 19th century? Etc, etc. Stuff like that.

No, but now I want to read the book you just described.

I suggest you start researching and writing...

# ? Aug 31, 2018 04:07

BravestOfTheLamps: Oct 12, 2012; by FactsAreUseless; Lipstick Apathy

borders fascinate me... borders between nations, borders between concepts, borders between taint and non-taint

# ? Aug 31, 2018 08:26

jagstag: Oct 26, 2015

most borders became barnes and nobles after 2011 hope this helps

# ? Aug 31, 2018 15:30

chernobyl kinsman: Mar 18, 2007; a friend of the friendly atom; Soiled Meat

border? i hardly knew 'er

# ? Aug 31, 2018 16:36

fridge corn: Apr 2, 2003; NO MERCY, ONLY PAIN

Solaris 2.0 posted:

So I’ve been on a Vietnam binge since watching the Ken Burns documentary last year. My wife having been born in Vietnam has also peaked my interest in that country’s history.

Someone earlier in the thread mentioned “Embers of War”. I am a few chapters in and it is absolutely fantastic. I read Graham Greene’s “The Quiet American” earlier and until that point, that was my only source on the French period.

With that said, are there any books that focus on the initial French conquest of Vietnam? Or its history before that? Also, and this is random, but is Mark Bowden’s “Hue: 1968” any good or does it exclusively focus on the US side? It’s hard finding works that focus on the NVA or even ARVN perspectives of that period.

While traveling through Vietnam several years ago in a used bookstore I picked up a copy of a book called The Sacred Willow by Duong Van Mai Elliott and it chronicles the history of four generations of her family starting with her great grandfather up to the fall of saigon and her family's emigration to America and its well written and insightful enough to warrant a look imo if you can find it

# ? Aug 31, 2018 17:59

Punished Chuck: Dec 27, 2010

Are there any good English-language histories of the Sengoku period? I�d prefer something in a narrative style but I�ll take more academic works too. It seems like there should be a lot but somehow I�m not finding anything on my own.

# ? Aug 31, 2018 23:07

Azran: Sep 3, 2012; And what should one do to be remembered?

If I want to learn more about fascism, is there any recommended book? Preferably one that doesn't talk positively about it. :v:

I'm mostly interested in the way it originates and how it propagates.

# ? Sep 2, 2018 11:06

A human heart: Oct 10, 2012

Azran posted:

If I want to learn more about fascism, is there any recommended book? Preferably one that doesn't talk positively about it. I'm mostly interested in the way it originates and how it propagates.

https://www.amazon.com/Apprentices-Sorcerer-Tradition-Critical-Sciences/dp/1608462021

# ? Sep 2, 2018 11:41

Lead Psychiatry: Dec 22, 2004; I wonder if a soldier ever does mend a bullet hole in his coat?

Landa has a lecture on Youtube if you want to sample before diving into his book.

# ? Sep 2, 2018 12:43

vyelkin: Jan 2, 2011

Azran posted:

If I want to learn more about fascism, is there any recommended book? Preferably one that doesn't talk positively about it. I'm mostly interested in the way it originates and how it propagates.

Robert Paxton's Anatomy of Fascism is really good. I also own Fascism: A Very Short Introduction by Kevin Passmore but I've never actually read it so I can't say if it's good or not.

# ? Sep 2, 2018 12:56

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# ? May 15, 2024 15:51

Quarterroys: Jul 1, 2008

Thanks again for the vote of confidence on Nixonland a few pages back. It�s fantastic.

I went ahead and picked up The Invisible Bridge by Perlstein as well - seems like it should be a good logical next read.

# ? Sep 2, 2018 15:05

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The History Book Thread! looks like I need to set up space for a Nazi shelf

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