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Nirvikalpa posted:
Ask him what his substance of choice is now so he's prepped when he burns out.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:03
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Nirvikalpa posted:It's his personality. Tell him to stop asking them if they are jewish.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:17
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OCI interview question: how much should I focus on a firm's Dubai office, and to what extent should I ask them about their eke out fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 17:29
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It's amazing how bad law students are at interviewing, and how little career services does to prep them. Every year, without fail, I reserve the last 5 minutes of an OCI screener to ask the candidate: "So what questions can I answer for you about Shitfucker, Snuffgoblin and Jones PLLC?" Generally speaking if you can't feign enough interest in my firm to find a few things to ask about, you're probably not getting a callback. That poo poo's like Interviewing 101. Every year, without fail, one third to one half of the kids I'm screening will shrug at me and say "I don't have any questions" or its cousin, "you answered all my questions." I have been interviewing at the same school for six years, and I have this exact discussion every year with career services in our post-OCI debrief. At no point does it ever appear that career services has ever passed this along to their kids. But then again, I've also had more than one kid straight up tell me "I'm not sure I want to be a lawyer, but I thought I'd try out a summer at your firm and see if I like it." Maybe there is just no helping law students. eke out posted:OCI interview question: how much should I focus on a firm's Dubai office, and to what extent should I ask them about their lol I enjoy your posts as a rule, but every one of them is made even better by imagining the dog in your avatar is posting it
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Aug 20, 2018 17:42
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Soothing Vapors posted:It's amazing how bad law students are at interviewing, and how little career services does to prep them. Every year, without fail, I reserve the last 5 minutes of an OCI screener to ask the candidate: "So what questions can I answer for you about Shitfucker, Snuffgoblin and Jones PLLC?" Generally speaking if you can't feign enough interest in my firm to find a few things to ask about, you're probably not getting a callback. That poo poo's like Interviewing 101. Every year, without fail, one third to one half of the kids I'm screening will shrug at me and say "I don't have any questions" or its cousin, "you answered all my questions." To play Devil's Advocate, almost no firm is special, and expecting someone to ask a question about a firm when you've given out a brochure and then talked to them about the firm's expectations is pissing into the wind. Like what do you want them to ask? How often do you guys have firm bbq's?
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Aug 20, 2018 17:53
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Nirvikalpa posted:He only wants to do corporate law for the money. It doesn't seem law otherwise interests him at all. He should pull the trigger on dropping out now to reduce the chances of pulling the trigger of a loaded gun pressed against his temple later.
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Aug 20, 2018 17:53
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Pook Good Mook posted:To play Devil's Advocate, almost no firm is special, and expecting someone to ask a question about a firm when you've given out a brochure and then talked to them about the firm's expectations is pissing into the wind. Like what do you want them to ask? How often do you guys have firm bbq's? Just ask about firm culture or something. Is it collegial compared to other firms or whatever.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:10
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Pook Good Mook posted:To play Devil's Advocate, almost no firm is special, and expecting someone to ask a question about a firm when you've given out a brochure and then talked to them about the firm's expectations is pissing into the wind. Like what do you want them to ask? How often do you guys have firm bbq's? Just ask stuff like, is there anything you wish you had known when you were in my shoes today and just beginning your legal career? It’s not even firm specific but can still spark a genuine conversation or something to help stand out. Also stuff like, why did you choose to work at [blank] firm?
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Aug 20, 2018 18:38
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the most important reason to have questions to ask is the interviewer probably ran out of questions and wants to shift the burden onto you to come up with some, having no questions is not just poor preparation but you're making their life harder
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Aug 20, 2018 18:41
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Pook Good Mook posted:To play Devil's Advocate, almost no firm is special, and expecting someone to ask a question about a firm when you've given out a brochure and then talked to them about the firm's expectations is pissing into the wind. Like what do you want them to ask? How often do you guys have firm bbq's?
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Aug 20, 2018 18:43
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My favorite generic but seemingly different question is: how does your firm try to differentiate itself to clients, as compared to similar firms like XY and Z. You have to do a modicum of googling or talking to older law students to figure out who the firm thinks of as its competitors in the local market, but it’s otherwise a super low effort question. Plus you can usually crib by just asking about the other firms you’re applying to. (This can backfire if you apply to ten tiny litigation boutiques and one hugelaw firm and are asking the M&A guy.)
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Aug 20, 2018 18:46
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I think that the interviewee asking questions is a bit lovely, however in highly competitive entry level markets it's an easy way to weed people out.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:49
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Ani posted:You should convey that you have spent 2-3 hours researching the firm and envisioning working there and ask questions that would naturally arise out of that. They don't have to be particularly insightful, but should at least make sense. Easy questions are asking about the assignment system (free market vs rotations, how does it work in practice?), main practice areas especially when interviewing with someone who works in those areas, recent deals or cases (if the interviewer worked on them) or what kind of work junior associates will be getting and how that changes as you get more senior. That should be able to chew up 5-10 minutes, which is all you really need (and you can ask the same questions to each person at the same firm when you do a callback). You can also get the interviewers talking by asking them about their typical day or most interesting deal/case, and since lawyers love telling their boring war stories, it'll make them like you more as well. This should legit be put into one of the first posts. I'm still of a mind that finding a "dream firm" is artificially created by the industry a la "dream college," but if the game must be played, these questions seem helpful.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:52
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"What classes did you take/do you wish you had taken that have been the most helpful?"
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Aug 20, 2018 18:53
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Where do you see yourself in 5 years? Murdered to death in a log cabin in the Scandinavian wilderness.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:59
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“Are you Jewish? How Jewish is the firm?” Two questions right there.
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Aug 20, 2018 18:59
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Nirvikalpa posted:
Clinics are the only good thing in law school, where you get to go play real lawyer. I got to try a few trials. I hated law school (I did like the free time and day drinking) and clinics were the only thing I liked. It is what got me through law school and gave me something to talk about in interviews and focused my interests. Schools have different ones, but they tend to be aimed at poorer people, so you'll have housing, family stuff, and my school had programs with the local prosecutors and PDs offices where you could actually do extremely minor criminal poo poo in a courtroom with a dude with a robe on.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:00
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Separate post for an ethics-lite question. We all know I'm a.divergent litigator. I have a newer attorney (NA) working under me. He's first chairing a jury trial in October. Im his second chair - but I'm taking on a greater roll in teaching than normal. I know that NA has accepted an offer from a private firm that litigates directly with us. Like, I have 5 active cases where this firm is defense counsel. I'm happy for NA to go make money, because frankly he works too hard for government work. NA has not told anyone in my office (of even me) that he is leaving. He told a mutual friend if ours, who warned me. NA is planning on staying through the jury trial so he can get "experience." I find NA to be insufferable and I do not like to work with him. I tell you this in full disclosure. Here is the dilemma: I do not want an attorney who is heading out the door in 2 months for a competitor to try a case for my office. I do not think he will tank the case vel sim. I do not think he will disclose privileged information. And the case is not against the firm he is joining. My concern is that I don't particularly care for NA. I don't want to train him how to do a jury trial. I don't want him to later profit (against my client) due to the things I'm teaching him. If he left after the trial for private practice, and I didn't know he had been sitting on a job the whole time, I don't think I would care. But now that I do know, I'm annoyed. I don't think I have any ethical duty to disclose (but maybe?). But should I tell our supervisor, or just let it go?
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Aug 20, 2018 19:00
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I'd say tell your supervisor because you're going to be dealing with conflict headaches on everything he's ever touched if nothing else, and the number one rule in life - never be the most senior person with a secret. This isn't your burden to sort out. Let the bureaucracy handle it. Also I don't think class action firm liked me asking for some sort of employment contract, as I haven't heard back from them at all today. I can't even be mad, though. I figure, if nothing else, my tales of failure can help guide others. I'm an idiot. Don't be like me. 
Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 19:04
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Mr. Nice! posted:I'd say tell your supervisor because you're going to be dealing with conflict headaches on everything he's ever touched if nothing else, and the number one rule in life - never be the most senior person with a secret. This isn't your burden to sort out. Let the bureaucracy handle it. I spy a man who know bureaucracy. This is the answer. Do it in writing (email) in a non-dickish way and then have a off the record conversation where you explain it.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:06
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Yep, you should tell. It smells enough like a conflicts problem that you won’t just be tattling Bc you hate him.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:11
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Also that means you'll probably have to evict this particular war widow.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:13
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I'd rather first chair it anyway. Dude is a magic bullet lawyer.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:38
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https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1031586191626461185 drat, they're on to us.
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Aug 20, 2018 19:46
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disjoe posted:https://twitter.com/TheOnion/status/1031586191626461185 I came here to post that, drat it. Hot Dog Day #91 posted:I'd rather first chair it anyway. Dude is a magic bullet lawyer. What do you mean by "magic bullet lawyer"? It sounds complimentary when nothing else you've said was. Does it mean a sort of all-eggs-in-one-basket argument approach?
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Aug 20, 2018 19:52
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Look Sir Droids posted:“Are you Jewish? How Jewish is the firm?” which Tribe of Israel do you most identify with?
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Aug 20, 2018 19:53
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:should I tell our supervisor, or just let it go? Edit: I'm with everyone else; tattle on him.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:02
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Discendo Vox posted:I came here to post that, drat it. I hope he means, "manages to kill everything he touches." lol
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Aug 20, 2018 20:05
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Pook Good Mook posted:I'm still of a mind that finding a "dream firm" is artificially created by the industry a la "dream college," but if the game must be played, these questions seem helpful.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:09
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Pook Good Mook posted:To play Devil's Advocate, almost no firm is special, and expecting someone to ask a question about a firm when you've given out a brochure and then talked to them about the firm's expectations is pissing into the wind. Like what do you want them to ask? How often do you guys have firm bbq's? Pose some sort of moderately intelligent question that I can then use as a springboard to start a dialogue with you about things that specifically interest you about our firm. Are you most interested in the city? The ~firm culture~? The ~work/life balance~? Corporate? Our thrilling and nonexistant international business law group that we trumpet on our website for some unknown reason? Litigation? My specific practice area? One of the topics covered on our recruitment website? A cool case I had? The tastiest partner dick I ever sucked? Asking questions 1.) relieves me of the burden of having to scan your pitiful trashbrain resume and ask you questions about why you joined the Federalist Society, 2.) allows me to convey to the partners who hold your greasy soul in their hands that you care so, so deeply about us. evilweasel posted:the most important reason to have questions to ask is the interviewer probably ran out of questions and wants to shift the burden onto you to come up with some, having no questions is not just poor preparation but you're making their life harder Exactly. Ani posted:You should convey that you have spent 2-3 hours researching the firm and envisioning working there and ask questions that would naturally arise out of that. They don't have to be particularly insightful, but should at least make sense. Easy questions are asking about the assignment system (free market vs rotations, how does it work in practice?), main practice areas especially when interviewing with someone who works in those areas, recent deals or cases (if the interviewer worked on them) or what kind of work junior associates will be getting and how that changes as you get more senior. That should be able to chew up 5-10 minutes, which is all you really need (and you can ask the same questions to each person at the same firm when you do a callback). You can also get the interviewers talking by asking them about their typical day or most interesting deal/case, and since lawyers love telling their boring war stories, it'll make them like you more as well. Also exactly. The fact that career services departments aren't out there teaching 1Ls the rules of this incredibly simple game is shameful.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:15
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Career services is the absolute most useless part of any law school faculty/payroll. They should axe them all and knock $50 off everyone’s tuition.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:32
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Look Sir Droids posted:Just ask about firm culture or something. Is it collegial compared to other firms or whatever. Wow, he asked about culture? Probably scared of putting in the hours, strike him.
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Aug 20, 2018 20:43
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Vox Nihili posted:Wow, he asked about culture? Probably scared of putting in the hours, strike him. No joke, a partner on our RC expressed his Grave and Serious Concerns about a promising minority candidate with good grades and good regional ties -- a practically unheard of trifecta in this market -- because the candidate asked about work/life balance at lunch, and he thought that was a sign of a weak and lazy mind or some poo poo. Our recruitment page uses the phrase work-life balance like 50 times. Luckily we outvoted him and then he was a passive aggressive twat for the rest of the meeting. What I'm trying to say here is death to all boomers
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Aug 20, 2018 20:48
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Efb didn't see people hitting the same note I was , where the last thread had posters saying saying "work life balance" was an instant death knell The only way to know what to ask in interviews is presumably by being the one who does the interviewing mastershakeman fucked around with this message at 21:00 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 20:57
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https://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3845966 The op of this thread has a lot of good questions I've used before (though slightly modified to be more relevant to the legal profession and not in an OCI context). E: Another good (lazy) question is something like "what distinguishes a great candidate from a good candidate" and then you can go into how you have whatever traits the interviewer says.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:04
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So ask about work/life balance and mention that your wife/mistress/girlfriend is about to have oir first child this summer and I look forward to experiencing this miracle of life! Good way to play for sympathy.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:17
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1. I've looked at a few of my colleagues open cases. He has multiple cases with the firm he's joining. I'm giving him until the end of today to let our admin know. 2. Magic bullet lawyer is a term I've used since advocacy exercises in law school. There are some lawyers who try to solve cases. Like there is some combination of facts and law that make the case unbeatable. And if you thread all the needles correctly you'll win. But litigation, especially with my niche, is about what you can get in front of a jury without getting mistrialed or reversed. Just because something "shouldn't be admissible" doesn't mean it won't come in or be reversible error. All of my cases are dueling experts. I can do everything perfectly and still lose. And all of my cases are jury trials. Juries are always a coin flip. My last case that I won was based solely on the fact that a juror worked construction and said "you can't put a crane on top of that building it's too weak, so we discounted everything they said." In sum, nothing matters and my goal in litigation is to have clean hands and be prepared, but assume I will lose. Trying to crack the case just doesn't apply.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:25
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Hot Dog Day #91 posted:1. I've looked at a few of my colleagues open cases. He has multiple cases with the firm he's joining. I'm giving him until the end of today to let our admin know. JFC, that's like, super bad. Unless he works for the administration and ethics rules don't apply to him. Or maybe Texas is more relaxed about that sort of thing. .1 hours, consultation on ethics issues.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:32
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So this dude thinks he can count cards as a trial lawyer = wins? Gonna be lol when his client isn’t the government. Also yeah, he needs to be walled off now and his new firm can’t use him for those.
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Aug 20, 2018 21:35
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Soothing Vapors posted:It's amazing how bad law students are at interviewing, and how little career services does to prep them. Every year, without fail, I reserve the last 5 minutes of an OCI screener to ask the candidate: "So what questions can I answer for you about Shitfucker, Snuffgoblin and Jones PLLC?" Generally speaking if you can't feign enough interest in my firm to find a few things to ask about, you're probably not getting a callback. That poo poo's like Interviewing 101. Every year, without fail, one third to one half of the kids I'm screening will shrug at me and say "I don't have any questions" or its cousin, "you answered all my questions." My career services office gave us actively stupid advice. Like not merely being passively negligent in not preparing us, but affirmatively telling us to ask about things like work/life balance, etc. It's incredibly how painfully out of touch and stupid academic career services is with respect to the actual working world. Well, maybe it isn't, as it is incredible how painfully out of touch and stupid academia in general is with respect to the actual working world. EDIT: Holy poo poo, I read this before I read the following posts, which covered work/life balance and career services well. Seriously, I am in the camp that you never ask about work/life balance. It's the equivalent of asking about length and girth with a scared look on your face. It doesn't matter whether it's painful, your job is to just fit it in there somehow. No one wants to hear about how you don't like that stretched out feeling afterward. SlyFrog fucked around with this message at 21:43 on Aug 20, 2018 |
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Aug 20, 2018 21:37
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