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Karl Barks posted:yeah that's never happened in the history of the world, something existing for a long time and failing everyone is an infiltrator and all groups you're not a part of are psyops. ISO has seemed to me just more like a clique-ish good ol' boys' network of academics, like DSA but with books. Is it possible the CIA directly or indirectly helped them at some point? Sure. It doesn't matter, though, since the organization has been in a talespin and is too anemic even to pick up the more thoroughly radicalized disenchanted ex-DSA'ers. PSL seems pretty good at doing but all of my indicators point to "sex cult" on that one.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:27
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Party for Sexual Liberation
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Aug 23, 2018 16:29
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ISO and PSL suck join us at PLP, we have boots riley and are even more obscure and ineffective. we've probably been infiltrated by the CIA/FBI too!!
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Aug 23, 2018 16:29
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Dreddout posted:Party for Sexual Liberation
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Aug 23, 2018 16:30
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:The least to ask for is that a left wing organization not literally repeat the State Department's regime change line. literally the only thing you have to say re: Syria is "I stand with the people of Syria, and their right to choose their government." as soon as you start trying to ruminate on the subject you're hosed, because it's hosed from every direction and a god damned tragedy and the answer to russian ratfuckery isn't american ratfuckery ever, ever ever ever
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Aug 23, 2018 16:30
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Impermanent posted:everyone is an infiltrator and all groups you're not a part of are psyops. Any group that supports American foreign policy in one way or another may as well be a psyop. It's frustrating to see all of these useful idiots cloistered in their home offices, uncritically lapping up the constant drip of right wing social media manipulation, with no regard to any reporting of conditions on the ground by people who actually went there. Postoyevsky can call Max Blumenthal a rich boy all he likes, but he actually went to Nicaragua during an active insurgency when nobody else would and blew the lid off the fact that the opposition has been waging a stochastic terror campaign where they've been torturing and murdering Sandinistas - instead of the mainstream line of being a completely one-sided war of the government on civil society.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:35
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ShriekingMarxist posted:literally the only thing you have to say re: Syria is "I stand with the people of Syria, and their right to choose their government." The same thing that happened in Syria where Western media misrepresented facts about the opposition and the nature of the civil war over and over is happening again in Nicaragua, so at some point there needs to be a reckoning with how much leftists should put their faith into the NGO complex and liberal media. There's a severe lack of journalistic rigor at all levels.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:39
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:Any group that supports American foreign policy in one way or another may as well be a psyop. It's frustrating to see all of these useful idiots cloistered in their home offices, uncritically lapping up the constant drip of right wing social media manipulation, with no regard to any reporting of conditions on the ground by people who actually went there. Postoyevsky can call Max Blumenthal a rich boy all he likes, but he actually went to Nicaragua during an active insurgency when nobody else would and blew the lid off the fact that the opposition has been waging a stochastic terror campaign where they've been torturing and murdering Sandinistas - instead of the mainstream line of being a completely one-sided war of the government on civil society. critical support for American trust fund journalists also, I've never said that Max Blumenthal hasn't done good work, I loved Goliath. It's just funny watching him melt down and call publications who disagrees with him on Assad CIA-funded 
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Aug 23, 2018 16:39
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I can understand the frustration, seeing that the u.s. military would love nothing more than to get into syria and people who try to write "oh but isn't assad a bad leader?" thinkpieces are either extremely irresponsible, naive, stupid, or co-opted. But my point is that they could be any one of those things, not necessarily co-opted.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:42
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Max Blumenthal's piece on Nicaragua is top shelf, thanks for linking to Moderate Rebels
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Aug 23, 2018 16:42
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Postoyevsky posted:critical support for American trust fund journalists Wierd thing to find funny imo
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Aug 23, 2018 16:42
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Impermanent posted:I can understand the frustration, seeing that the u.s. military would love nothing more than to get into syria and people who try to write "oh but isn't assad a bad leader?" thinkpieces are either extremely irresponsible, naive, stupid, or co-opted. But my point is that they could be any one of those things, not necessarily co-opted. yeah I mean Jacobin's sins are much more closely aligned with "being dumb as hell reformism" rather than some grand CIA coopt
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Aug 23, 2018 16:43
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I don't think Blumenthal is even saying the CIA is actually funding those orgs, just that they're fulfilling the same "anti-communist left" role that actual CIA-funded orgs did during the Cold War. You may disagree with him on that but I'm pretty sure that's what he's getting at
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Aug 23, 2018 16:45
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Postoyevsky posted:critical support for American trust fund journalists he's not literally saying they're funded by the CIA though? i read him as saying "these are the organizations funding US propaganda , much like the CIA has done before".
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Aug 23, 2018 16:49
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Jacobin's founder is extremely not mad about it https://twitter.com/sunraysunray/status/1032608746059517952
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Aug 23, 2018 16:49
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Jacobin's founder is extremely not mad about it does Jacobin really wanna start the war on that front? lmao
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Aug 23, 2018 16:50
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Jacobin's founder is extremely not mad about it oh hell yes, extremely here for this fight
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Aug 23, 2018 16:51
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If you seriously think Jacobin is a CIA front you're broke brained
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Aug 23, 2018 16:52
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Pablo Nergigante posted:Jacobin's founder is extremely not mad about it 
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Aug 23, 2018 16:53
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:If you seriously think Jacobin is a CIA front you're broke brained They're an FSB front, obviously.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:57
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Sheng-Ji Yang posted:If you seriously think Jacobin is a CIA front you're broke brained Pablo Nergigante posted:I don't think Blumenthal is even saying the CIA is actually funding those orgs, just that they're fulfilling the same "anti-communist left" role that actual CIA-funded orgs did during the Cold War. You may disagree with him on that but I'm pretty sure that's what he's getting at
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Aug 23, 2018 17:00
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The quality of writing in Jacobin is too poor to be directly CIA-backed. It does fill that role though. If you ever talk to Bhaskar in person you'll find that he does actually want jacobin to be the Iskra of our times (and yes, he is then the lenin of our times by inference). He's just such a complete reformist at heart that he really believes that lenin would be all about bernie sanders.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:00
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The trots did this
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Aug 23, 2018 17:01
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You can't spell Jacobin without CIA
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Aug 23, 2018 17:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:"fulfill that role" is the operative phrase: this could be applied to chomsky, it's an absurd position imo
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Aug 23, 2018 17:02
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gradenko_2000 posted:Max Blumenthal's piece on Nicaragua is top shelf, thanks for linking to Moderate Rebels If you've got the time, Real News hosted a debate between Blumenthal and Dr. Mary Ellsberg on the situation in Nicaragua. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bB5UPNIgcEE It's notable what kind of difference the outlook is between somebody who was physical on the ground and interviewing people, and someone like Dr. Ellsberg who has been living in the states and following the situation purely through social media. One of the things Ellsberg brings up is that the snipers who shot at protesters during the initial phase of the violence were using Dragunov sniper rifles, and because Dragunovs are illegal to own in Nicaragua then that proves the snipers were working for the police or government. But that doesn't prove anything. Dragunovs are Soviet kit and there's tens of thousands of them floating around in the world. It'd be simple to smuggle illegal weapons into Nicaragua, especially with all of the violence and gang activity going on in neighboring Honduras. The way that the gangs have escalated their use of weapons from hand mortars and molotov cocktails to assault rifles and machineguns indicates that there were caches of weapons being stockpiled for this kind of political crisis where destabilizing elements could exploit the situation to escalate the violence and force early elections. Saying the sniper rifles could only have been used by the government because they're illegal to civilians is an uncritical teleology.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:03
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Karl Barks posted:this could be applied to chomsky, it's an absurd position imo chomsky is also a chump
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Aug 23, 2018 17:06
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Chumpsky
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Aug 23, 2018 17:07
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b-b-b-but you could say the same of michael moore!!!
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Aug 23, 2018 17:07
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Pener Kropoopkin posted:chomsky is also a chump 
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Aug 23, 2018 17:08
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Cast down your revisionism comrades and icepick the trot within yourself
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Aug 23, 2018 17:08
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Normal Chumpsky
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Aug 23, 2018 17:08
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chomsky totally did not work on pentagon funded projects during his tenure at MIT. he said so himself
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Aug 23, 2018 17:09
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the field of linguistics is a CIA psy op
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Aug 23, 2018 17:11
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Aug 23, 2018 17:33
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Lmao
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Aug 23, 2018 17:47
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lol
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Aug 23, 2018 17:50
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=02bHO9t6fuI&t=7s
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Aug 23, 2018 17:55
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BULBASAUR posted:Can someone explain to a pleb why Trot is bad? have you been introduced to the immortal science of Posadism?
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Aug 23, 2018 18:15
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party for spiced latte
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Aug 23, 2018 18:18
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