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Back when I was still in Venezuela it could be done with your monthly dollar quota to immediate family which is how I manage to save everything I had when I came here, but that soon stopped.
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Aug 22, 2018 20:02
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quote:according to Mark Weisbrot of the Center for Economic and Policy Research It's fun (well, "fun") reading old Weisbrot articles like this one: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/07/venezuela-not-greece-latin-america-oil-poverty
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Aug 23, 2018 06:26
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Chuck Boone posted:It looks like the article is making two claims here: 1) that the sanctions are targeting TeleSur's source of funding, and 2) that the sanctions are blocking wire transfers out of Venezuela. Thanks for the info! I think I'm going to pass on bothering with responding to that unless he posts anything more on the topic, it's more than a day old on his wall at this point. beer_war posted:It's fun (well, "fun") reading old Weisbrot articles like this one: Could my entire economic outlook be wrong? No, it must be the new sanctions that have retroactively destroyed the economy! This might make for a pithy response to start a conversation if this comes up again with a source using information from that data tank.
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Aug 23, 2018 13:27
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Yesterday, a man named Matthias Krull pleaded guilty to conspiracy to commit money laundering for his role in a $1.2 billion corruption scheme involving PDVSA, the Venezuelan state-owned oil company. U.S. authorities picked up Krull in late July and alleged that he was part of a group of high-ranking PDVSA officials, Venezuelan business people and a couple of foreign nationals who conspired to embezzle the money out of PDVSA. They launched the scheme in December 2014 and it continued until May 2015. This is from the U.S. Department of Justice's note on Krull's arrest: quote:According to the criminal complaint, the conspiracy in this case allegedly began in December 2014 with a currency exchange scheme that was designed to embezzle around $600 million from PDVSA, obtained through bribery and fraud, and the defendants’ efforts to launder a portion of the proceeds of that scheme. By May 2015, the conspiracy had allegedly doubled in amount to $1.2 billion embezzled from PDVSA. PDVSA is Venezuela’s primary source of income and foreign currency (namely, U.S. Dollars and Euros). This case is typical of the kind of corruption that has plagued PDVSA over the past 20 years. PDVSA officials are also under investigation in Andorra for embezzlement and laundering money through the company. The company is run as the personal bank account of whichever regime officials manages to gets their hands in it. Because nearly all of the money that Venezuela earns comes in to the country through PDVSA, this corruption is a huge part of the reason why Venezuela is the way that it is today. Absurd Alhazred posted:Thanks for the info! I think I'm going to pass on bothering with responding to that unless he posts anything more on the topic, it's more than a day old on his wall at this point. No worries! EDIT: I forgot to add this clip from a couple of days ago that made a splash on social media. In the clip, Minister of Communication Jorge Rodriguez is trying to explain how much a Venezuelan worker earns each month. To do this, Rodriguez relies on a handy graphic that helps him prove his point that working 8 hours a day Monday to Friday, Venezuelans work a total of 800 hours per month. https://twitter.com/maibortpetit/status/1032260667183714305 Chuck Boone fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 14:52
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Chuck Boone posted:EDIT: I forgot to add this clip from a couple of days ago that made a splash on social media. In the clip, Minister of Communication Jorge Rodriguez is trying to explain how much a Venezuelan worker earns each month. To do this, Rodriguez relies on a handy graphic that helps him prove his point that working 8 hours a day Monday to Friday, Venezuelans work a total of 800 hours per month. I think this is kind of how it went for them in their heads: 8hrs a day. 5 days a week. 20 working days in any given month. Therefore, 40hrs a week=(8hrs a day)*(5 days a week) So far so good. And then for some reason this happens: 40hrs a week*20 working days a month=800hrs a month. I will not answer any questions on how they made that logical leap and how the gently caress they could not be bothered to double check their math before presenting on national television.
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Aug 23, 2018 15:12
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VTV somehow always manages to gently caress up their packages and supporting materials. I still remember that time they wrote "epoca de sembrina" to refer to the times around December. This is on another level of dumb because not only did they print it that way, Jorge Rodriguez (a loving MD) read it and didn't immediately realize the loving math doesn't add up. I feel like anybody who's worked a day in their lives knows that you work 40 hours a week, 160 a month. How very unusual that this champion of the proletariat doesn't know that. fnox fucked around with this message at 15:20 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 15:17
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So now that the government admits that people work 27hrs a day, worse than any neoliberal hellscape and beyond what should be physically possible, can the gringo squad finally admit they may have been wrong about these people and things could not be worse than what we are experiencing right now? No, of course not
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Aug 23, 2018 15:24
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Furia posted:So now that the government admits that people work 27hrs a day, worse than any neoliberal hellscape and beyond what should be physically possible, can the gringo squad finally admit they may have been wrong about these people and things could not be worse than what we are experiencing right now? No see because the real true Venezuelan people that exist in their minds are thrilled to twist the laws of space and time to find three extra hours per day and work non-stop against the economic war imposed by el imperio or something. The constant attacks by skinless dogs that appear from the corners and shapeless masses of flesh are just more CIA tricks.
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Aug 23, 2018 15:47
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Furia posted:So now that the government admits that people work 27hrs a day, worse than any neoliberal hellscape and beyond what should be physically possible, can the gringo squad finally admit they may have been wrong about these people and things could not be worse than what we are experiencing right now? No because real Venezuelans can’t speak English. And of course internet communists aren’t going to learn Spanish; why would they bother learning a language that is only used to speak to gardeners and house maids, when they are proletariat supporters with neither tended gardens nor household staff? Don’t worry. Such thoughts are not racist if espoused by someone who is a genuine supporter of The People (or "el Pueblo" as you people may call it.) E: more seriously though I think anyone who has it in them to recant support for the PSUV has already done so. Maduro could eat a baby on live television and 99% of people who still somehow support him today would still support him tomorrow. "Pff but if you put a right winger in charge then they’d be eating TWO live babies" Saladman fucked around with this message at 16:09 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 16:05
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while posting "sick owns" on the tankie squad might seem satisfying in the moment, for the rest of the thread it's tedious at best, and at worst summons said squad to continue another round of blistering hot takes about neoliberal sabotage
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Aug 23, 2018 17:31
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A big flaming stink posted:while posting "sick owns" on the tankie squad might seem satisfying in the moment, for the rest of the thread it's tedious at best, and at worst summons said squad to continue another round of blistering hot takes about neoliberal sabotage They are self-summoning
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Aug 23, 2018 18:57
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It's just silly and childish, and everyone that does it looks stupid. Also squad? there is like 2 tankies in the thread right? And yeah if you still support Maduro you aint gonna change your mind at this point 
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Aug 24, 2018 04:46
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i don't care how infuriating you feel the people on the "other side" are, i'm gonna start handing out long forum vacations if the potshots don't stop. this goes for everyone.
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Aug 24, 2018 08:49
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Here's what annoys me. When they're not around, the thread is fine, it's mostly just Chuck and other posters updating the thread with the latest from Venezuela. Usually it generates little discussion other than comments reiterating what is already obvious, poo poo's awful in Venezuela and it's only getting worse. The truth is that there is no moderate position here, the only way that a guy like Maduro would come across as defensible would be if you are really deep into some wild conspiracy theories about CIA intervention, to the point that you would have to assume the Venezuelans here are all right wing shills, that what they've witnessed is false and so is everything that they link. The only reason why the thread turns into such a shitshow every time they show up is because they're allowed to run rampant. We counter their arguments with evidence: the US sanctions target individuals and are not at all comparable to something like the Iran or Cuban sanctions, oil prices have doubled since the crisis began yet it's only gotten worse, Venezuelan dirty money keeps showing up everywhere, relatives of people in the government keep showing up in foreign countries living luxurious lives they shouldn't be able to afford, the currency controls have only increased inflation and speeded up devaluation, the government has conveniently stopped reporting on crime and economic markers since the crisis began yet did so all the years prior. They never address these points, they simply move onto something else or claim that I'm a Pinochet apologist or a fascist. I don't know how we're expected to maintain any sort of discussion on those terms. Things never evolve, we address their talking points, we make a pretty clear case for how the effect of US imperialism really comes second to the sheer inefficacy, corruption and brutality of the Venezuelan government, we've made it abundantly clear how they have no real threats and that the opposition that still exists is completely toothless, we stated that the US is still buying every barrel of oil Venezuela sells and that therefore Venezuela still receives revenue directly from the US and that the sanctions don't affect that. It's just blindingly obvious that the Venezuelan government is responsible for the crisis, yet not even that can be assumed to be common ground. And if it feels petty, or if the reactions to their comments seem unmeasured, you have to remember that a lot of us grew up hearing Chavez insult us with those same terms literally every single day and it triggers a very visceral reaction. Chavez got rid of any notion of civility in Venezuelan political discourse, whoever disagreed with him was an enemy and right-wing. He tended to group his enemies with a single word (he changed it every couple of years), "escualido", "fascist", "pitiyanqui", "bourgeoisie"; he also used the 2002 coup attempt as a justification for pretty much anything. You think terms like "libtard" and the like are annoying when they're parroted over and over? Try hearing it on every channel, in both radio and television, every day, for the past 15 years. You too will have the urge to lash out.
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Aug 24, 2018 11:02
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The Economist has several articles this week on Venezuela about : (1) The new currency being bogus and doomed to hyperinflation: https://www.economist.com/node/21748810 (2) Maduro's news conference where he seemed briefly to be connected to reality: https://www.economist.com/node/21748844 (3) The Venezuelan refugee situation: https://www.economist.com/node/21748855 Nothing particularly new, but it has good numerical summaries of everything going on. Surprisingly only a rounding error (< 9000) Venezuelans seem to have left for Cuba, Bolivia, or Nicaragua and, surprisingly to me, it sounds like most in Ecuador are trying to leave Ecuador to move on to Chile or Peru—although who knows how reliable such polls are of where people intend to go. I wonder if those numbers are really correct or maybe if data are just absent for Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guatemala, etc. I did not check the original UN source. If you don't have an economist subscription you might run up against the article limit very quickly (maybe even just one?) but you can open incognito windows to read the rest.
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Aug 24, 2018 11:15
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From what I understand the new currency was pegged to the Petro, the crypto currency that Maduro came up with, so it's just another way to siphon money out of the country, only this time using financial instruments.
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Aug 24, 2018 13:40
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Grapplejack posted:From what I understand the new currency was pegged to the Petro, the crypto currency that Maduro came up with, so it's just another way to siphon money out of the country, only this time using financial instruments. Did the petro ever even launch? I vaguely remember a few articles about it being delayed, being unavailable, and organizations that were supposed helping the government launch it deny all involvement. I just assumed the whole thing was fictional.
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Aug 24, 2018 13:45
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El Pitazo is reporting today that since the economic reforms launched on Monday, at least 10 supermarket managers and 15 business owners have been arrested for failing to comply with price controls. The Foro Penal Venezolano (a human rights NGO) is saying that they will consider anyone arrested for this reason to be a political prisoner, since they argue that the arrests do nothing but create scapegoats for the regime's failed policies. These sorts of arrests have been going on for years, and they're part of the reason why there's so much scarcity in Venezuela. Forcing stores to sell at a loss creates black market incentives, and can eventually bankrupt businesses. With an inflation rate estimated to hit 1,000,000% at the end of the year and a daily inflation rate of 2-3%, it's hard to imagine a more ham-fisted approach to this issue. In another bit of news, Ecuador left ALBA yesterday in protest over the bloc's "unwillingness" to address the Venezuelan migrant crisis. The move comes as Ecuador looks to restrict Venezuelans' access to the country by demanding that they enter with a valid passport. Peru is making a similar requirement, which will go into effect in that country starting tomorrow at noon. Taken together, this new stance from Quito and Lima could be the start of souring attitudes towards Venezuelan migrants in the Andean region. I dont know posted:Did the petro ever even launch? I vaguely remember a few articles about it being delayed, being unavailable, and organizations that were supposed helping the government launch it deny all involvement. I just assumed the whole thing was fictional. The Petro did launch. I'm pretty sure it's been online since at least late February. The problem is that the regime is so secretive with it that I'm not sure that they're releasing any information about it with any regularity. It was just three days ago that the Central Bank started publishing the price of the Petro in foreign currencies on its website. I don't know too much about cryptocurrency, but the few pieces that I've read on the Petro all have a really negative view of it, primarily because of the secrecy issue. Like Grapplejack said, from all appearances the Petro's purpose is to allow the regime to steal more money through a new channel.
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Aug 24, 2018 14:50
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I dont know posted:Did the petro ever even launch? I vaguely remember a few articles about it being delayed, being unavailable, and organizations that were supposed helping the government launch it deny all involvement. I just assumed the whole thing was fictional. It's fictional. There's no blockchain, there's nobody actually trading it or mining it, and there's no way to actually redeem it. It's a similar concept to the Rentenmark the Weimar Republic issued to stop hyperinflation, just done in the stupidest way possible, in classic Venezuelan government fashion. They're just complete nonsense, they're issued by the Central Bank of Venezuela, there's no way to mine them, and its pretty much blackboxed. A centralized crypto is just, well, money. fnox fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 15:01
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Chuck Boone posted:In another bit of news, Ecuador left ALBA yesterday in protest over the bloc's "unwillingness" to address the Venezuelan migrant crisis. I spent 15 minutes trying to think of the name of ALBA earlier this morning when talking about how it was odd that Cuba, Nicaragua, and Bolivia did not receive any (or did not report any) Venezuelan refugees, but couldn't think of anything besides MERCOSUR. Did ALBA ever do anything besides issue "rah rah anti imperialist rah rah the people" statements? I remember reading about it a while back and I could not figure out if it had ever done anything at all.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:07
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fnox posted:It's fictional. There's no blockchain, there's nobody actually trading it or mining it, and there's no way to actually redeem it. It's a similar concept to the Rentenmark the Weimar Republic issued to stop hyperinflation, just done in the stupidest way possible, in classic Venezuelan government fashion. Chuck Boone posted:the regime is so secretive with it that I'm not sure that they're releasing any information about it with any regularity. 
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Aug 24, 2018 15:16
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Saladman posted:I spent 15 minutes trying to think of the name of ALBA earlier this morning when talking about how it was odd that Cuba, Nicaragua, and Bolivia did not receive any (or did not report any) Venezuelan refugees, but couldn't think of anything besides MERCOSUR. Did ALBA ever do anything besides issue "rah rah anti imperialist rah rah the people" statements? I remember reading about it a while back and I could not figure out if it had ever done anything at all. Those countries just happen to be well out of the way. To get to Nicaragua, you have to pass Colombia, Panama and Costa Rica; to get to Bolivia, you have to go through Colombia and Peru and you might as well veer off to Chile; and if you have the means to go by air to Cuba you might as well either continue and head to the US, or fly closer in the continent. Ecuador under Rafael Correa used to be pretty close to Maduro, this may be an attempt by Lenin Moreno to further distance himself from the policies of the past, or it's a demonstration of how flimsy Maduro's alliances are. ALBA was created as a parallel structure to something called ALCA that fell through. It's one of the many diplomatic alliances Chavez invented, based on the exchange of oil for political favours. I don't think Ecuador was part of Petrocaribe so they're not really affected much by leaving ALBA.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:22
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fnox posted:Those countries just happen to be well out of the way. To get to Nicaragua, you have to pass Colombia, Panama and Costa Rica; to get to Bolivia, you have to go through Colombia and Peru and you might as well veer off to Chile; and if you have the means to go by air to Cuba you might as well either continue and head to the US, or fly closer in the continent. Ecuador under Rafael Correa used to be pretty close to Maduro, this may be an attempt by Lenin Moreno to further distance himself from the policies of the past, or it's a demonstration of how flimsy Maduro's alliances are. Also those countries are significantly poorer than their neighbors so there’s not much reason to stop there anyway. It’s like how just about zero refugees wanted to register in Romania when they could go to Germany instead.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:44
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Saladman posted:Nothing particularly new, but it has good numerical summaries of everything going on. Surprisingly only a rounding error (< 9000) Venezuelans seem to have left for Cuba, Bolivia, or Nicaragua and, surprisingly to me, it sounds like most in Ecuador are trying to leave Ecuador to move on to Chile or Peru—although who knows how reliable such polls are of where people intend to go. I wonder if those numbers are really correct or maybe if data are just absent for Cuba, Ecuador, Bolivia, Guatemala, etc. I did not check the original UN source. I'm not surprised if Cuba, Bolivia and Nicaragua are not seeing that muck influx of Venezuelan because:
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Aug 24, 2018 15:48
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AstraSage posted:I'm not surprised if Cuba, Bolivia and Nicaragua are not seeing that muck influx of Venezuelan because: Venezeualans in some part believe that the us is waging an economic war they hear it all day every day. So even if they dislike the regime they may dislik the us just as much. Niacaragua has been a cia haven forever. If the venzuelan ever come back and have inadvertantly talked to s a cia member or an associate b believed to be one by accident the regime will know about it. Easier to live in a place somewhat friendly to venezuela. WAR CRIME GIGOLO fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 06:50
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LeoMarr posted:Venezeualans in some part believe that the us is waging an economic war they hear it all day every day. So even if they dislike the regime they may dislik the us just as much. Niacaragua has been a cia haven forever. If the venzuelan ever come back and have inadvertantly talked to s a cia member or an associate b believed to be one by accident the regime will know about it. Easier to live in a place somewhat friendly to venezuela. (I seriously hope you're not being serious with such a reply) Okay, take it from someone still living in the mess that's currently Venezuela: Those folks who are still drinking from that Kool-aid will never get out from the nation out of their own initiative; Rather, they usually have some relatives desperate enough to fetch them out, and most of the time said relatives tend to live in US-friendly countries in the continent like Colombia (or in the ironic case of one neighbor, the United States themselves).
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Aug 25, 2018 18:36
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And we're into full-on "Venezuela must destroy Venezuelans, the true reservoir of fascism" territory now.
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Aug 26, 2018 03:27
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M. Discordia posted:And we're into full-on "Venezuela must destroy Venezuelans, the true reservoir of fascism" territory now. Who is Robson Lucas de Oliveira? Are they a government figure?
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Aug 26, 2018 04:34
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Just a random loser babbling crap on Facebook.
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Aug 26, 2018 04:41
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Negrostrike posted:Just a random loser babbling crap on Facebook. True, but it's also a symptom of the changing attitudes towards the crisis. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-45304086 quote:Giannella Jaramillo, who runs a clothes stall in a town near the border, told AFP: "On the one hand we're sorry for the Venezuelan people, but they are taking a job away from a Peruvian. It's hard to help more people." The scale of migration in terms of numbers is starting to rival that of the European migrant crisis, and they're migrating to countries that lack the economic capacity of Germany or Sweden to accommodate this many refugees. They need international help right now.
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Aug 26, 2018 08:33
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R. Guyovich posted:i don't care how infuriating you feel the people on the "other side" are, i'm gonna start handing out long forum vacations if the potshots don't stop. this goes for everyone. You live in the People's Republic of China, right? I imagine there are lots of people who want to tell you all about what life is like there, having never set foot there, having never read a single book or taken a class about it, having no knowledge of Chinese history, culture, economic systems, or language. I've seen them tell you bullcrap about "Chinese imperialism in Africa" which is nothing more than extremely friendly loans and development projects which Africans themselves are quite fond of. I haven't read the latest parts of the China thread but I imagine not a lot has changed. You probably look at a lot of those people and think "Wow they are blinded as gently caress by their ignorance and ideology. What's wrong with them?"
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Aug 26, 2018 08:53
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Sergg posted:You live in the People's Republic of China, right? I imagine there are lots of people who want to tell you all about what life is like there, having never set foot there, having never read a single book or taken a class about it, having no knowledge of Chinese history, culture, economic systems, or language. I've seen them tell you bullcrap about "Chinese imperialism in Africa" which is nothing more than extremely friendly loans and development projects which Africans themselves are quite fond of. I haven't read the latest parts of the China thread but I imagine not a lot has changed. You probably look at a lot of those people and think "Wow they are blinded as gently caress by their ignorance and ideology. What's wrong with them?" yes, and as much as i'd love it if they never posted about china again their ignorance isn't a 100 percent across the board punishable offense. they're idiots but they represent a point of view, a sadly common one. sound familiar?
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Aug 27, 2018 01:02
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R. Guyovich posted:yes, and as much as i'd love it if they never posted about china again their ignorance isn't a 100 percent across the board punishable offense. they're idiots but they represent a point of view, a sadly common one. sound familiar? Are you sincerely alleging that "Maduro did nothing wrong" is a common view in the year 2018? I don't think there's all that many people who really believe we need to defend right wing dictatorships that behave indistinguishably from the worst crimes of Cold War American junta-puppet states.
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Aug 27, 2018 01:07
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Sergg posted:I've seen them tell you bullcrap about "Chinese imperialism in Africa" which is nothing more than extremely friendly loans and development projects which Africans themselves are quite fond of. I haven't read the latest parts of the China thread but I imagine not a lot has changed. You probably look at a lot of those people and think "Wow they are blinded as gently caress by their ignorance and ideology. What's wrong with them?" Sorry for the detail but yeah this part is umm a bit more complicated than what you state. Ask others in SE Asia about China and they likely also strongly believe China has imperialist motivations if not actions. (FWIW I also lived in China/Asia) sticksy fucked around with this message at 01:54 on Aug 27, 2018 |
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Aug 27, 2018 01:51
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fishmech posted:Are you sincerely alleging that "Maduro did nothing wrong" is a common view in the year 2018? I don't think there's all that many people who really believe we need to defend right wing dictatorships that behave indistinguishably from the worst crimes of Cold War American junta-puppet states. your bad analysis aside, yes. it is a viewpoint that exists.
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Aug 27, 2018 04:24
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R. Guyovich posted:your bad analysis aside, yes. it is a viewpoint that exists. Genocide denialism is a viewpoint that exists too, it doesn't make it any less of a fringe, extremist position. Having many people believe in it doesn't make it any less extreme. I think defending a regime that has triggered a major refugee crisis without being involved in an armed conflict (or that even has significant opposition) is such a departure from reason it deserves to be mocked. Particularly if it implies the denial of every primary source we have in this thread.
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Aug 27, 2018 07:41
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fnox posted:Genocide denialism is a viewpoint that exists too, it doesn't make it any less of a fringe, extremist position. Having many people believe in it doesn't make it any less extreme. false equivalency is another extremely irritating thing that isn't punishable.
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Aug 27, 2018 08:39
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Maduro announced yesterday that seniors will now receive their pensions via an electronic wallet that is connected to the carnet de la patria. This means that if you are a senior and you want your pension, you will need to have the regime ID or else you won't get a dime. You might remember that the carnet de la patria was launched early last year. Originally, the ID was supposed to track purchases as a measure to alleviate food shortages and stop hoarding. Even before it launched, regime critics argued that the regime would eventually expand the use of the ID and make it a requirement to access all kinds of services. That has been the case so far. The ID is now required to request subsidized housing, and will eventually be required to fill up your car at the gas station. The problem with the carnet is that it's not a government ID: it's a party ID. The carnet is administered by the PSUV, so whatever benefits you receive you receive at the pleasure of the party. This is precisely why the regime is expanding the scope of the ID, so that it can bully people into getting the card and then hold benefits that used to be universal over their heads.
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Aug 27, 2018 13:17
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R. Guyovich posted:false equivalency is another extremely irritating thing that isn't punishable. It's so cool how you're Venezuelasplaining to an actual Venezuelan.
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Aug 27, 2018 20:49
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:It's so cool how you're Venezuelasplaining to an actual Venezuelan. Real Venezuelans cant speak english or use the internet, so he must be the one to defend them
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Aug 27, 2018 21:11
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