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Meinberg posted:Plus the whole game really emphasizes player vs. player conflict, doesn’t offer much in the way of emotional safety mechanics, relishes in cabin raiding at all hours of the night, and generally works to try to indoctrinate players into believing that its the best game ever. It can get real bad. Thanks for the rundown. And, yeah, absolutely nothing about that appeals.
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Aug 23, 2018 13:58
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Nessus posted:I always thought that the logical thing for a post-apocalyptic setting is have it be where your "home base" is somewhere that kind of looks like the old west with a lot of scavenging (on the theory that you can support that level of technology on scrap salvage and cottage industry) and you have to deal with all these bizarre raiders and weirdos out in the hinterlands.
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Aug 23, 2018 14:22
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i want more post societal collapse settings that are set a generation or so after everything went to poo poo and people actually wear clean clothes and live in buildings that arent in ruins and theres green taking over everything abandoned
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Aug 23, 2018 14:46
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Yeah, people would eventually figure out how to make their own clothes and other goods again. At this point, I'd find it refreshing if most of the horror in a post-apoc setting came from actual threats from outside the community instead of a deep pessimism about humanity, rooted in the assumption that the worst excesses of capitalism reflect human nature.
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Aug 23, 2018 14:56
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Ironically, DR is set several centuries after the apocalypse but everything is still worn down and gritty and rooted in this sense of Americana.
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Aug 23, 2018 16:12
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The genjin are actually not the worst of the old DR strains. There you to be an obviously Mexican strain that REQUIRED INDICATIVE MAKEUP. counterspin fucked around with this message at 17:35 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 17:33
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Meinberg posted:Ironically, DR is set several centuries after the apocalypse but everything is still worn down and gritty and rooted in this sense of Americana. How tremendously worse.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:39
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It's not a coincidence that in both DR and Fallout, two post-apoc stories that revel in Americana, Asian-Americans just can't wait to whip out the katanas once civilization ends. It's pretty well in line with the WoD trend where factions in the secret mystical war are based on pop cliches of cultural archetypes that never quite existed.
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Aug 23, 2018 17:45
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What is DR? Dangan Ronpa? E; ah Dystopia Rising Bedlamdan fucked around with this message at 19:51 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 19:48
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Halloween Jack posted:It's not a coincidence that in both DR and Fallout, two post-apoc stories that revel in Americana, Asian-Americans just can't wait to whip out the katanas once civilization ends. It's pretty well in line with the WoD trend where factions in the secret mystical war are based on pop cliches of cultural archetypes that never quite existed. I think the katana aesthetic is just an attempt to be exotic, most of the renowned users of them in western fiction aren't Asian-American or Asian at all. Blade, Rand al'Thor, the MacLeods, the Bride, Deadpool, Michonne, Psylocke (arguable, along with the TMNT and Snake-Eyes).
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Aug 23, 2018 20:50
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Tollymain posted:i want more post societal collapse settings that are set a generation or so after everything went to poo poo and people actually wear clean clothes and live in buildings that arent in ruins and theres green taking over everything abandoned Halloween Jack posted:At this point, I'd find it refreshing if most of the horror in a post-apoc setting came from actual threats from outside the community instead of a deep pessimism about humanity, rooted in the assumption that the worst excesses of capitalism reflect human nature. nofather posted:I think the katana aesthetic is just an attempt to be exotic, most of the renowned users of them in western fiction aren't Asian-American or Asian at all. Blade, Rand al'Thor, the MacLeods, the Bride, Deadpool, Michonne, Psylocke (arguable, along with the TMNT and Snake-Eyes).
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Aug 23, 2018 21:07
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Meinberg posted:emotional safety mechanics The hell is this? Wow
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Aug 23, 2018 21:10
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Firstborn posted:The hell is this? Wow Emotional safety mechanics are important in a LARP, even more than at a table, because at a table you can at least call foul easier and with fewer people involved. At a LARP you absolutely need some formalized way to go 'I am so very not okay with this scene and it has gone well beyond my comfort zone, stop right now.'
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Aug 23, 2018 21:23
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Nessus posted:I figured it was a mixture of "due to WWII trophies, it was surprisingly possible to encounter one in someone's closet or wall or something" and "the panic over the Japanese." That's an interesting idea. I always thought Snake-Eyes was one of the first big Western media katana users (and a sort of archetypical character, what with his lone wolfishness, the love he was unable to do anything about, tortured past, and pet wolf), beyond things like martial arts movies. And he was made by Larry Hama, who was a Vietnam veteran but also of Japanese descent. This later had a big influence on the revitalization of Wolverine who turned out to have once been a samurai and got into ninja hijinx, and who sort of spread it across comics. Kill Bill was definitely more influenced by samurai movies. nofather fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 21:30
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Halloween Jack posted:It's not a coincidence that in both DR and Fallout, two post-apoc stories that revel in Americana, Asian-Americans just can't wait to whip out the katanas once civilization ends. It's pretty well in line with the WoD trend where factions in the secret mystical war are based on pop cliches of cultural archetypes that never quite existed. The only example of that from Fallout that I can think of are the Shi, and that's because the younger generation that grew up post-war don't have any idea what the actual cultural touchstones of their heritage are and just imitate what they see on old pop culture recordings (Kung-Fu films).
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Aug 23, 2018 21:59
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The katana-wielders in Fallout 2 were the Yakuza random encounter, who are frequent in the regions near San Fransisco, which was settled after WWIII by a Chinese nuclear submarine that ran aground in the habour. So the katana-wielders are predominantly Chinese. Or just the remnants of the pre-war Japanese-American Yakuza organizations, if the wiki entry is to be believed. LatwPIAT fucked around with this message at 22:12 on Aug 23, 2018 |
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Aug 23, 2018 22:09
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Yeah I adore Fallout but I won't lie that the Shi are racist as hell. The idea of a submarine full of PRC sailors crashing into San Francisco and developing a society with an Emperor and kung fu film cliches is... yeesh. There's a reason Black Isle planned to have the Enclave nuke the city before the events of their cancelled Fallout 3.
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Aug 23, 2018 22:09
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Kavak posted:Yeah I adore Fallout but I won't lie that the Shi are racist as hell. The idea of a submarine full of PRC sailors crashing into San Francisco and developing a society with an Emperor and kung fu film cliches is... yeesh. There's a reason Black Isle planned to have the Enclave nuke the city before the events of their cancelled Fallout 3. The portrayal is pretty racist but I honestly feel like there should be a place in the setting for East Asians to be distinctly not white, because for all that I love them early FO games are white as gently caress.
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Aug 23, 2018 22:15
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Crasical posted:The only example of that from Fallout that I can think of are the Shi, and that's because the younger generation that grew up post-war don't have any idea what the actual cultural touchstones of their heritage are and just imitate what they see on old pop culture recordings (Kung-Fu films). But why is that trope (a dark reflection of a pop culture reflection) SO prominent in post-apoc media? Like, moving past the logistics of collecting enough of a canon of recovered media to develop these new touchstones, it just seems like "everything we know we learned from pop culture" shows up a lot in these sorts of games. FO being more acceptable given the short timeframe behind it, DR's "centuries after the fact" setting should probably exist beyond the lifetime viability of most recorded media.
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Aug 23, 2018 22:27
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PHIZ KALIFA posted:But why is that trope SO prominent in post-apoc media? You're asking the wrong guy, I don't dig into the genre very much aside from Fallout. I just brought the Shi up because I was thinking "Wait, does Fallout even have katanas in it? There was that one actual samurai from the UFO expansion, which was weird... Oh, yeah, you can buy them in New Vegas with the DLC installed. Oh, right, the Shi exist." I didn't actually even remember the Yakuza encounters, it's been so long since I played Fallout 2.
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Aug 23, 2018 23:08
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LatwPIAT posted:The portrayal is pretty racist but I honestly feel like there should be a place in the setting for East Asians to be distinctly not white, because for all that I love them early FO games are white as gently caress. I’ve not tried the early Fallout games. How are they? They must be really fun if we’re willing to give them a pass for racism!
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Aug 23, 2018 23:59
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Crasical posted:You're asking the wrong guy, Apologies, I didn't mean to target this question at you specifically, so much as ask the thread in general. edit- Which Mad Max movie had the scene where the kids are play-acting TV? Off the top of my head, that scene and the Venture Bros episode about the bunker cult which forms around 1950s educational films about hygiene are two (effective) examples of this kind of social reconstruction, not because of what that says about the future, but about us now. PHIZ KALIFA fucked around with this message at 00:19 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 00:16
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That'd be the seriously underrated Mad Max 3: Beyond Thunderdome. Everything bad people say about it is true but there's a loving ton of good in it as well and the big chase at the end is my favorite chase scene outside of the entirety of Fury Road. Loomer posted:Psychotic survivalists ruining the remains of civilization is a huge part of the plot of the Postman. It's a big part of why it's such a good novel. This is weird, I just started watching The Postman tonight; I finally let my morbid curiosity get the better of me. Stop stalking me. I think in general the reason post-apocalypse as a genre tends to be so depressingly grimdark and unrealistically lovely is a combination of the previously mentioned power fantasy it offers to the rugged Randian survivalist types and because we really don't have any other models to imagine. "It's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism" and all that. But yeah, post-apocalyptic lawyers would loving rule. I love how important lawyers are in Glorantha and what little I know of the Icelandic sagas. I have no idea if anyone's ever played them, because I feel like it's nearly impossible to play, but I dig that Exalted has a bureaucrat-hero splat too. Shin Godzilla also pulled off that trope really well, but it seems drat hard to make organically happen at the game table. Maybe with a shitload of storyteller pre-planning and railroading it could happen, but IMO even curious and non-violent players tend towards sweet talking their foes over suing them.
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Aug 24, 2018 04:30
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My 2.5 year Exalted 2e game (pray for my soul) had a character who had completely abandoned his name to be First Bureaucrat, whose sole goal was to make the local government function as well as possible. He ended up doing a lot of things, many of them morally acceptable. Also he outlawed illiteracy in a fit of pique.
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Aug 24, 2018 04:54
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Digital Osmosis posted:That'd be the seriously underrated Mad Max 3: Beyond Thunderdome. Everything bad people say about it is true but there's a loving ton of good in it as well and the big chase at the end is my favorite chase scene outside of the entirety of Fury Road. If you haven't read the book, go read it too. It's very different - and quite a lot better - than the film. Fun fact about lawyer characters - one of my favourites so far is still the one I came up with for Soonmot's vampirates game. An Icelandic lawspeaker who wound up a jurist in a vampire viking society using some of the tenets of Icelandic law as the basis for a vampiric social system, and was aiming to do the same thing in the Caribbean with pirates instead of vikings.
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Aug 24, 2018 06:52
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Digital Osmosis posted:This is weird, I just started watching The Postman tonight; I finally let my morbid curiosity get the better of me. Stop stalking me. Seconding Loomer, you should read the novel if you get the chance, it's got some interesting bits that the movie sort of edits out/ignores completely.
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Aug 24, 2018 08:22
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So I'm putting the campaign together: Players are a coterie of mortals going south into Lithuania during the Livonian crusades to check out rumours of blasphemy. Inspired by the history of the colonization of Estonia by scandinavians, players are crusaders and assorted friends and followers who try to root out the evil there. One thing I'm wondering though, is, how is it possible to give mortal characters some oomph so they can stand up to supernatural foes? Numina is still around or easily convertable, but apart from True Faith I'm sort of struggling with coming up with other edges that will let them fight vampires and mages.
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Aug 24, 2018 09:34
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Tias posted:So I'm putting the campaign together: Players are a coterie of mortals going south into Lithuania during the Livonian crusades to check out rumours of blasphemy. Inspired by the history of the colonization of Estonia by scandinavians, players are crusaders and assorted friends and followers who try to root out the evil there. Surprise them with Hunter the Reckoning at the end of your first session, or at least some updated version of it. Voices from Heaven are a great motivator.
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Aug 24, 2018 12:05
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Kai Tave posted:Seconding Loomer, you should read the novel if you get the chance, it's got some interesting bits that the movie sort of edits out/ignores completely. Yeah. It's a big part of why the film is so badly rated, too. The novel belongs to that class of genre classics like Mad Max 2 or On the Beach in that no study of the post-apoc genre is complete without considering it, while the film was just trying to be a decent, watchable film.
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Aug 24, 2018 12:48
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That's actually a really solid idea, I might look into it 
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Aug 24, 2018 12:49
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Bedlamdan posted:I’ve not tried the early Fallout games. How are they? They must be really fun if we’re willing to give them a pass for racism! The original Fallout was great and has none of the problems of Fallout 2's lolsorandom monkeycheese. Fallout 2 was poo poo, ignored Fallout's ending, and was riddled with dumb pop-culture bullshit including the racism. Then Tactics was an Infinity Engine game with toned down monkeycheese and no racism. Around this point people started the cargo-cult around FO/2 because they were the best examples of a genre that was arbitrarily declared dead despite having an established audience and being cheap to make. VAN BUREN was almost done, despite being RTwP, it was probably going to be better than the original. It got flushed down the toilet by Hearve Caen and about a quarter of its stuff got folded into New Vegas later on. Brotherhood of Steel was a Baldur's Gate:Dark Alliance clone. They killed Van Buren for it. Fallout 3 was a reversion to 2's missing the point. Fallout 4 is set nearly five hundred years after the original but not only has the sea not taken Boston but nobody has picked up any of the trash. Big Hubris fucked around with this message at 02:59 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 02:39
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Fallout 2 was poo poo? What world do you live in?
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Aug 25, 2018 03:01
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DrPop posted:Fallout 2 was poo poo? What world do you live in? It's definitely the lesser of the two, which is a pretty common stance from what I've seen. As for it being out and out poo poo, yeah, uh, it has a lot of really gross stuff in it for no real reason? Like, hey, Avellone, maybe don't program the rapist NPC that rapes the player character next time.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:20
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The hell does RTwP mean?
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Aug 25, 2018 03:27
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Real Time with Pausing.
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Aug 25, 2018 03:29
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Night10194 posted:Real Time with Pausing. I hate this so much. Give me real time or give me turn based. It was impossible to cast AoE spells in those games, which is why return to the temple of elemental evil remains the best.
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Aug 25, 2018 06:07
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Fallout 4 is only ~120 years after Fallout, not 500.
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Aug 25, 2018 06:10
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ProfessorCirno posted:It's definitely the lesser of the two, which is a pretty common stance from what I've seen. As for it being out and out poo poo, yeah, uh, it has a lot of really gross stuff in it for no real reason? Like, hey, Avellone, maybe don't program the rapist NPC that rapes the player character next time. Why do people like Fallout 2 
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Aug 25, 2018 06:52
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Bedlamdan posted:Why do people like Fallout 2
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Aug 25, 2018 07:05
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Why do people like real time with pausing games full stop at least Fallouts don't give you a party of four to eight idiots to babysit
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Aug 25, 2018 07:20
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