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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the case of Han shooting first, or second, or simultaneously, we can now say conclusively that Han never shot. Ah, the Hansenberg principle
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Aug 24, 2018 14:59
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jivjov posted:Or that a wound location is not a major plot event (like a planet being renamed, or a character being alive when they previously were established as dead, etc) Wait, why would you consider Tatooine being renamed to be a major plot event?
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Aug 24, 2018 14:59
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Having only parts of the "canon" stories be canon seems a bit self-defeating.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:00
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:we can now say conclusively that Han never shot. explain kylo then!!
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Aug 24, 2018 15:03
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Schwarzwald posted:explain kylo then!! Obi-Wan is the father, according to the Storygruppen.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:04
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jivjov posted:Or that a wound location is not a major plot event (like a planet being renamed, or a character being alive when they previously were established as dead, etc) It might not be a 'major plot event' (whatever that means) but it's pretty clear Abrams intended for Kylo to be somewhat disfigured following his fight with Rey, practically setting him up for a weird mirror of Vader's path, whereas Johnson thought it was 'goofy' and seemed to think Kylo's scar therefore had to be cool.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:09
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dublish posted:What the desert planet is called is not a major plot point. What matters is that it's the most worthless planet in the galaxy and it's at the rear end end of nowhere. Jakooine's name isn't even mentioned in half the movies in which it appears. I meant the concept that the planet Tatooine was renamed to Jakku; not the name itself (see: Korriban/Morriban)
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Aug 24, 2018 15:14
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Milkfred E. Moore posted:It might not be a 'major plot event' (whatever that means) but it's pretty clear Abrams intended for Kylo to be somewhat disfigured following his fight with Rey, practically setting him up for a weird mirror of Vader's path, whereas Johnson thought it was 'goofy' and seemed to think Kylo's scar therefore had to be cool. He's still disfigured.The scar didn't go away
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Aug 24, 2018 15:15
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Something something bacta You're welcome
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Aug 24, 2018 15:17
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jivjov posted:He's still disfigured.The scar didn't go away How do we know it's actually the same scar?
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Aug 24, 2018 15:17
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Its the same scar and in the same place, he just force regrew his face slightly to the left and now always turns his head a little bit to the right to look straight ahead. Its quite obvious in some shots.
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Aug 24, 2018 15:57
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Lo, the uncreated Journal of the Whills is revealed in stages, to prove the understanding of those who understand, and to discover those who lose the way. But for them is prepared the fire, to abide therein. Think you that the Story Group does not have power to make a thing lawful or unlawful? For the Story Group does not err, and they love the righteous. Any revelation they cause to be superseded or forgotten, they replace with something better or similar. When it was revealed "Han shot first," this was done to please the people; but this is fallen away, and a new revelation has abrogated it. Woe unto him who thinks not that Greedo shot first! There are those among you who say "Kylo had a scar on his nose," but the Story Group has allowed you to believe this to reveal your obstinance. You are like him, with a scar upon your eye.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:03
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It is Canon that the Whills, who created the Force and the Midichlorians, are also the same race that would create the Monoliths from 2001 in a different galaxy. We know this because after becoming a God-Baby, Dave Bowman traveled to the Star Wars Galaxy and then back in time to Tattooine in the Old Republic to create Anakin. The proof?  That's the pod used by Bowman to touch the Monolith. Canon.
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Aug 24, 2018 16:31
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jivjov posted:Or that a wound location is not a major plot event (like a planet being renamed, or a character being alive when they previously were established as dead, etc) Kylo Ren being slashed across the face is a way more major event than a location's name changing. Or, possibly, there being a specific named region on a larger, differently-named planet.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:06
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Clearly Kylo Ren in TFA and Kylo Ren in TLJ are different people You can tell because their scars aren't the same One of them is Been Solo
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Aug 24, 2018 17:10
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Vinylshadow posted:Clearly Kylo Ren in TFA and Kylo Ren in TLJ are different people Please, we already have the Bigger Ren Theory, let's not confuse the issue.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:13
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Ferrinus posted:Kylo Ren being slashed across the face is a way more major event than a location's name changing. Or, possibly, there being a specific named region on a larger, differently-named planet. Jivjov is clearly saying that certain individual shots in TFA are non-canon. The events of the plot, recorded as written text, are the actual canon. Therefore the films are imperfect illustrations of the true Star Wars. The true Star Wars only exists in an inaccessible database that is presumed to exist somewhere at Disney. No-one has ever seen it, except a handful of employees.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:30
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I think we're in more of an allegory of the caves situation. Canon Star Wars is passing between us and the fire, but the movies we see are mere shadowy abstractions projected on cave walls. We could not fathom the true nature of canon Star Wars, but hopefully one day our children or our children's children will be ready to receive the truth.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:39
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:Jivjov is clearly saying that certain individual shots in TFA are non-canon. Can't believe that all along you've been an archon of the demiurge (one G. Lucas), sent to entrap us in the samsaric prison of the Star Wars films which block us from achieving true gnosis.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:51
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Ferrinus posted:Kylo Ren being slashed across the face is a way more major event than a location's name changing. Or, possibly, there being a specific named region on a larger, differently-named planet. Yes, him being slashed across the face is a major event. The fact that the scar is a couple inches to the left is not so major.
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Aug 24, 2018 17:56
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jivjov posted:Yes, him being slashed across the face is a major event. The fact that the scar is a couple inches to the left is not so major. It is much more major than the name of a planet. We unambiguously see it happen onscreen, and the scar it leaves!  Is this shot canon?
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Aug 24, 2018 18:01
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Why has his face been photoshopped to be like fifty percent bigger?
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Aug 24, 2018 18:08
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Most successful actors have huge lollipop heads and Driver is no different.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:14
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:Why has his face been photoshopped to be like fifty percent bigger? That's Bigger Ren
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Aug 24, 2018 18:15
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Basebf555 posted:Most successful actors have huge lollipop heads and Driver is no different. Cf. Harrison Ford next to any normal human being
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Aug 24, 2018 18:24
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SuperMechagodzilla posted:In the case of Han shooting first, or second, or simultaneously, we can now say conclusively that Han never shot. Actually, that's something I'm curious about : if "canon" matters, then which version of the movie takes precedence? In the special editions onwards, Greedo shoots first; in theatrical, LaserDisc and THX versions, Han shoots first. They are both equally canon, but they cannot be equally canon, because two completely different things are happening. Sorry if this breaks the Star Wars universe for anyone.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:40
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Wheat Loaf posted:Actually, that's something I'm curious about : if "canon" matters, then which version of the movie takes precedence? In the special editions onwards, Greedo shoots first; in theatrical, LaserDisc and THX versions, Han shoots first. They are both equally canon, but they cannot be equally canon, because two completely different things are happening. I think jivjov would say that because George Lucas was the sole arbiter of canon pre-Disney, Greedo shooting first is canon because that's the way Lucas decided it should be for the Special Editions(i.e. Special Editions are canon because they're more recent)
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Aug 24, 2018 18:41
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I would guess that the Story Group acknowledges only the latest version of any given work.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:45
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Basebf555 posted:I think jivjov would say that because George Lucas was the sole arbiter of canon pre-Disney, Greedo shooting first is canon because that's the way Lucas decided it should be for the Special Editions(i.e. Special Editions are canon because they're more recent) George Lucas's arbitration will no longer be of any concern to us. I have just received word that the Disney has dissolved the old canon permanently.
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Aug 24, 2018 18:47
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Bongo Bill posted:I would guess that the Story Group acknowledges only the latest version of any given work. Yeah, this. The most recent cut is the current canonical one.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:44
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So it's merely the interpretation of the Story Group of how things went down, and no one else is beholden to it.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:53
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So it's merely the canon of the Story Group, and no one else's. Everyone is entitled to the canon in their own head, I've not seen anything jivjov has said that contradicts that. It's when you want to go out into the world and discuss it with others that we're running into a problem.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:56
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Basebf555 posted:Everyone is entitled to the canon in their own head, I've not seen anything jivjov has said that contradicts that. It's when you want to go out into the world and discuss it with others that we're running into a problem. You only run into problems if the thing you're trying to discuss is some particular canon and not the film itself.
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Aug 24, 2018 19:58
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Basebf555 posted:Everyone is entitled to the canon in their own head, I've not seen anything jivjov has said that contradicts that. It's when you want to go out into the world and discuss it with others that we're running into a problem. What problem have we run into?
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Aug 24, 2018 20:02
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fridge corn posted:Dr Jakku and Mr Tatooine
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Aug 24, 2018 20:06
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Sir Kodiak posted:What problem have we run into? It's impossible to have a discussion that involves literal elements of the movie like the names of planets without someone trying to force their personal reading of the film into it. If you're not at least willing to accept some basic continuity then every discussion has all these little landmines everywhere and it constantly grinds to halt.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:10
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Basebf555 posted:It's impossible to have a discussion that involves literal elements of the movie like the names of planets without someone trying to force their personal reading of the film into it. If you're not at least willing to accept some basic continuity then every discussion has all these little landmines everywhere and it constantly grinds to halt. So the enemy is different opinions.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:18
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I can't imagine a more boring conversation. Jivjov is like the perfect strawman for smartgoons to prove how not into autistic nerdcore Wookiepedia poo poo they are. Grats guys you realized movies aren't real.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:21
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porfiria posted:I can't imagine a more boring conversation. Jivjov is like the perfect strawman for smartgoons to prove how not into autistic nerdcore Wookiepedia poo poo they are. Grats guys you realized movies aren't real. I just wish he'd budge a bit and not take it so seriously.
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Aug 24, 2018 20:25
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BravestOfTheLamps posted:So it's merely the interpretation of the Story Group of how things went down, and no one else is beholden to it. The story group is who determines what the canon is: we're all beholden to it, on account of them being in charge of it Edit: like ...you can invent your own special headcanon if you want, but thT doesn't change the actual canon jivjov fucked around with this message at 20:32 on Aug 24, 2018 |
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Aug 24, 2018 20:28
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