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I remember hearing that phrase, or at least similar phrases, when I was a little kid and had no idea what Catholic or Orthodox was. I dislike a lot of the vernacular people use to describe death, the afterlife, heaven, etc. so I guess it's no surprise that this one isn't my favorite either. It might be a good analogy for kids of certain ages, I'll give it that.
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Aug 25, 2018 04:27
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I guess I just don't care for euphemisms for death because I feel that it takes away from the reality and the theological implications of the situation. Saying that a person has "fallen asleep in the lord" we don't have to deal with the fact that they are gone and that their soul is in the Lord's hands. It feels weird saying "fallen a sleep" when we don't confess "soul sleep" in the theological sense. (I don't know much about soul sleep, but I'm fairly certain that it's not something the Orthodox believe.) I tend to agree with Thirteen Orphans then they say that Thirteen Orphans posted:“fell asleep in the Lord” is an excellent way to describe the Dormition of Mary, but that’s about it. If I am wrong about Orthodox Theology, please correct me.
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Aug 25, 2018 05:05
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the thing i don't like when people talk like that is that i see it as being the humans still living who are putting their words and meanings onto an existence that none of them have any experience with. even if God appeared from the heavens tomorrow and told all of us "Christianity is correct and also the afterlife definitely exists" this still doesn't explain the mechanics of going from this life to the next, or what the afterlife is like. yeah a lot of churches have doctrine about this but when you get into super specifics like "oh its just falling asleep lol" the skeptical part of my brain starts tingling
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Aug 25, 2018 05:20
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Slimy Hog posted:On a much heavier note, the child Andrew for whom I asked for prayers in the last thread died last week, so I ask for more prayers for him from those of you who pray for the dead. check out the hard core darkness from that priest's funeral i posted, it's about child death HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 08:28 on Aug 25, 2018 |
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Aug 25, 2018 08:26
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HEY GUNS posted:i hate any euphemism, but i do like the things that say dead people are now "in a place where there is no sorrow, no sighing, and light without shadow" I had a conversation like this not too long ago, discussing the different afterlives in the Forgotten Realms tabletop setting, and she thought one of the Upper Planes (where good-aligned people go when they die) was kinda horrifying. I noted that it's an afterlife in a community where there is no war, no poverty, no crime, no want. Everyone is a part of a community that they care about, and that cares about them in turn. There is no such thing as an unwanted or unloved person here, and everyone works together for the common good. Is it so hard to believe that this is some people's idea of paradise? 
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Aug 25, 2018 15:40
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Cythereal posted:I had a conversation like this not too long ago, discussing the different afterlives in the Forgotten Realms tabletop setting, and she thought one of the Upper Planes (where good-aligned people go when they die) was kinda horrifying. I noted that it's an afterlife in a community where there is no war, no poverty, no crime, no want. Everyone is a part of a community that they care about, and that cares about them in turn. There is no such thing as an unwanted or unloved person here, and everyone works together for the common good. Is it so hard to believe that this is some people's idea of paradise? Some people define their sense of self not through what they are and what they belong to, but what they aren't, that's all.
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Aug 25, 2018 16:42
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Lutha Mahtin posted:the thing i don't like when people talk like that is that i see it as being the humans still living who are putting their words and meanings onto an existence that none of them have any experience with. even if God appeared from the heavens tomorrow and told all of us "Christianity is correct and also the afterlife definitely exists" this still doesn't explain the mechanics of going from this life to the next, or what the afterlife is like. yeah a lot of churches have doctrine about this but when you get into super specifics like "oh its just falling asleep lol" the skeptical part of my brain starts tingling Actually, it's tollhouses.
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Aug 25, 2018 17:46
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Cythereal posted:I had a conversation like this not too long ago, discussing the different afterlives in the Forgotten Realms tabletop setting, and she thought one of the Upper Planes (where good-aligned people go when they die) was kinda horrifying. I noted that it's an afterlife in a community where there is no war, no poverty, no crime, no want. Everyone is a part of a community that they care about, and that cares about them in turn. There is no such thing as an unwanted or unloved person here, and everyone works together for the common good. Is it so hard to believe that this is some people's idea of paradise? There's something to be said for the pleasure of overcoming a challenge.
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Aug 25, 2018 17:49
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today i learned edit: the icon of christ leading the prisoners out of the camp though, while well-meaning, isn't proper to Orthodox tradition.
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Aug 25, 2018 21:41
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HEY GUNS posted:today i learned eh, every tradition has to start somewhere and this particular motif has a pretty clear precedent in iconographic depictions of the Harrowing of Hell I'd say, so it's all good imo  (1678 icon from Chachersk in eastern Belarus)
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Aug 25, 2018 22:31
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As a child in Sunday School, every time I heard about the harrowing of hell, I always imagined Jesus fist fighting an army of skeletons. Seemed pretty rad at the time.
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Aug 25, 2018 23:22
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who's the most famous zoroastrian in the world, cyrus the great or freddy mercury
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Aug 25, 2018 23:36
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CountFosco posted:There's something to be said for the pleasure of overcoming a challenge. Funnily enough, D&D accounts for that. Almost all of the Upper Planes, afterlives for good-aligned people, have a realm that's a much tougher neighborhood rather than an idyllic paradise, specifically for those souls who crave some challenge and adventure in their afterlife. Your options are: Arcadia: idealized Leave It To Beaver 1950s sitcom, minus the racism, sexism, classism, homophobia, etc. Mount Celestia: perpetual inward journey of enlightenment. Bytopia: idealized rural life and small towns, for those who need more elbow room. Elysium: 24/7 vacation paradise. Beastlands: idealized untouched natural paradise, for the nature-lovers. Arborea: free spirited land of adventure. Ysgard: harsh land of epic adventure and battle with a biting wind always at your back. https://i.imgur.com/eYGCBga.mp4 Cythereal fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 00:25
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The liturgical/D&D crossover is always amazing
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Aug 26, 2018 00:39
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Shaddak posted:As a child in Sunday School, every time I heard about the harrowing of hell, I always imagined Jesus fist fighting an army of skeletons. Seemed pretty rad at the time. I picture it kicking off with an action movie scene where the criminal on the cross beside him who defended him has a look around Hell and is all "...paradise, huh?" And Jesus just says "Day's not over yet." And then he fistfights an army of skeletons.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:43
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St. Dismas/Jesus buddy action movie.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:44
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tag urself I'm a Chaotic Good wizard
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Aug 26, 2018 00:45
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Pellisworth posted:The liturgical/D&D crossover is always amazing Mount Celestia has always felt inspired by Christianity to me. The idea is that the plane consists of seven layers, each infinite but each a level of a mountain you can see on each layer, with a blinding radiant light shining out across the cosmos at the apex. If your soul ends up here, because this is your idea of paradise, you arrive at the foot of the mountain, on a beach surrounded by an infinite sea of holy water. Most souls sooner or later begin their pilgrimage up the mountain, their progress through the Seven Mounting Heavens measured not by physical travel, but by enlightenment and purification, facing tests and guardians and learning experiences along the way. Very few souls ever reach the mountain's apex, where they become one with the primal force of good in the cosmos. https://i.imgur.com/DMil2ZB.mp4
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Aug 26, 2018 00:50
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My last D&D PC was a Lawful Good Truenamer/Paladin Gestalt, who was allowed to do that because Truenamer was so bad it added nothing to his character except wonderful flavor. It was fun.
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Aug 26, 2018 00:51
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Cythereal posted:Mount Celestia has always felt inspired by Christianity to me. It's pretty much straight out of Dante's Paradiso.
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Aug 26, 2018 01:12
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Pellisworth posted:tag urself Can we do other posters? Hegel is a Neutral Good Gunslinger/Wizard.
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Aug 26, 2018 01:33
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Epicurius posted:It's pretty much straight out of Dante's Paradiso. People read any of Dante's work beyond Inferno? https://i.imgur.com/YXWQiLZ.mp4
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Aug 26, 2018 03:27
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Serious and disturbing allegations against Pope Francis.
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Aug 26, 2018 03:38
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gently caress
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Aug 26, 2018 03:53
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i’m gonna say trust but verify, since people have been trying to ratfuck francis for years. if the nuncio’s background makes ratfucking unlikely then it’s probably time for a new pope
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Aug 26, 2018 03:53
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a dominican friend on fb actually read it and says its got some weird agendas but the core allegation is pretty plausible. if so, sorry but pope francis retire binch
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Aug 26, 2018 03:56
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Maybe this time we can get an Asian pope. That'd be cool.
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Aug 26, 2018 04:10
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CountFosco posted:Maybe this time we can get an Asian pope. That'd be cool. Catholicos-Patriarch Agagianian supposedly almost was elected Pope in 1963.
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Aug 26, 2018 04:45
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CountFosco posted:Maybe this time we can get an Asian pope. That'd be cool. how are they gonna find a bishop whose parents were italian immigrants in asia?
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Aug 26, 2018 04:50
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docbeard posted:I picture it kicking off with an action movie scene where the criminal on the cross beside him who defended him has a look around Hell and is all "...paradise, huh?" Almost, but they end up leading an army of skeletons, against a bunch of crazy giant Hieronymus Bosch devils. Mr Enderby fucked around with this message at 08:54 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 08:52
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Mr Enderby posted:Almost, but they end up leading an army of skeletons, against a bunch of crazy giant Hieronymus Bosch devils. "Look, Gustavus, we stripped the humans not just of their skin, but of all their fleshy bits. Even if some weirdo from the Levant does pop down and start a revolt, what're they gonna do?" "Dunno, Adolphus. I dunno. I just got me a bad feeling about all this."
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Aug 26, 2018 09:32
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Cythereal posted:People read any of Dante's work beyond Inferno? i read the entire loving thing in school
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Aug 26, 2018 11:07
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Can we do other posters? edit: you are a chaotic good monk, ofc. your sister is also chaotic good. HEY GUNS fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Aug 26, 2018 |
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Aug 26, 2018 11:13
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Senju Kannon posted:i’m gonna say trust but verify, since people have been trying to ratfuck francis for years. if the nuncio’s background makes ratfucking unlikely then it’s probably time for a new pope lol there's no way to verify it because it's a private conversation the two of them had and vigano clearly has a major agenda of rooting out the communist homosexuals like fr. martin whom he mentioned for no reason
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Aug 26, 2018 11:22
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Thirteen Orphans posted:Can we do other posters?
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Aug 26, 2018 12:37
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GreyjoyBastard posted:"Look, Gustavus, we stripped the humans not just of their skin, but of all their fleshy bits. Even if some weirdo from the Levant does pop down and start a revolt, what're they gonna do?" "I mean, nobody could breathe on these dry bones and give them life, right?" Ok, seriously, we should write a harrowing of hell movie.
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Aug 26, 2018 14:22
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Cythereal posted:People read any of Dante's work beyond Inferno? I'm reading the Divine Comedy now for the first time. Just left Virgil behind to enter Paradise. Re: the Pope Francis stuff...if Whispers In The Loggia is to be believed this is all related to the right-wing/conservative/"Cardinal Burke looks -stunning- in that cappa magna!" pushback against Amoris Laetitia.
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Aug 26, 2018 14:28
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I have no doubt there are lots of grudges getting settled but that doesn't mean it can't be true
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Aug 26, 2018 15:06
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Pershing posted:I'm reading the Divine Comedy now for the first time. Just left Virgil behind to enter Paradise. As I put it to my husband, "The problem is that I find it entirely plausible that someone could say to Pope Francis that Pope Benedict hadn't given him a fair hearing, and, Pope Francis being interested in giving everyone a fair hearing..." and much of the document is, in theory, able to be verified independently, like what names had been suggested for which sees. quote:I added that it would be salutary if, for once, ecclesiastical authority would intervene before the civil authorities and, if possible, before the scandal had broken out in the press. Ah, yes, that would have been salutary, indeed.
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Aug 26, 2018 15:13
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Oh well, it's not like the pope is meant to be infallible or anyth- (I don't know enough to form an opinion about this yet. I just wanted to make a dumb joke.)
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Aug 26, 2018 15:50
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